It has been a long time since I said much on here. I figured I have said all that needs to be in past. I get emails a few times a month asking me random things from here. I changed my screen name from daveinorlado

I thought it might be helpful to post my expierences this year from 2 companies that I have been working with who in the last month refuse to sell to me over my complaints of their poor service.....

Gepetto kitchens now Touchstone Fine Cabinetry account to be closed as of today !!!!!!

The National Sales manager told me today they will not sell to me in the future because I am upset that cabinets i orderd Aug 16 still are not finished properly.

The customer paid a little of 20,000 for completely custom Lyptus wood frameless cabinets. I placed to order Aug 18 of this year. Touchstone called me, 6 weeks later, the day before scheduled delivery to tell me they did not like the finish on the doors and wanted to do them over. The customer asked I have the cabinets sent without the doors on them so the contractors schedule would not change. The door style was flat slab ultra modern with solid lyptus wood requiring wood strips on the back of the doors to help keep them straight. That is common for solid wood slab doors. Touchstone and I agreed to have the cabinets delivered less the doors. The cabinet boxes were installed and the doors were delivered the following week. The contractor went to put them on to realize the wood strips on the back of the doors facing the contents of the cabinets interfered with the accessories in the custom order and would not shut. I worked out with Touchstone I would send them sketches of where to place the strips on the back to not interfere with things and they agreed to make them again. The normal lead time for a rushed order is 3 weeks. 4 weeks transpired and I was given notice to pay for one item I needed to finish the kitchen I did not have on the original order. A pantry cabinet when level was not against the wall so I orderd a plywood end panel to cover the cabinet to maintain the ultra modern look without trim. A truck delivered my most recent order 4 weeks later and the needed replacement doors were not there. I called and asked to speak to the president of the company. We had spoken before over my concerns they do not follow up well on things they do wrong that need to be replaced. I asked him why the materials were not on the truck stating it had been 1 week longer then the normal rush lead time.

Conestoga makes their doors drawers etc which dictates the 3 week time. They can order from conestoga faster if they need to. I learned that conestoga had not sent all the items they were supposed and their customer service dept had re ordered them under the program that would take another 3 weeks to get. The president of Touchstone had conestoga make and overnight the missing item so they could finish it. The doors were put on the next truck and delivered to me less the missing item. They arrived almost 5 weeks from when they were ordered which normally takes 3 if I order it as something I need. Mind you they can get it faster if they chose to do so which they did not..... I install all the items I recieve and 4 lower pantry doors are multiple shades darker then the rest of the kitchen. I take pictures and email them to the plant manager saying they will not work and I need help. I am told the driver is on his way back to the plant and can not come back to pick them up. I had to take the doors to him in a hotel room in Richmond Va to give them back to the driver. It is 4 hours round trip to meet the driver to return they doors they will not come pick up.

I finally learned today the doors I gave the driver will arrive this thursday which is 1 day short of 3 weeks later from giving them back to their driver. All they had to do was sand and restain 4 doors and deliver them again. This will be the 4th time they have delivered items trying to get the original order correct.

I told the national sales manager that this has been a night mare I have never been paid for the cabinets after delivery because they are not done. I paid the factory in full by the time the original doors were sent to me in end of Sept. I said I like their products when things go well but when they make mistakes they take way to long to fix them. How long does it take to sand an re stain 4 doors? 3 weeks????? He politely asked me my background and how many kitchens I do in a year I told him 30 - 40 he then said I am not a good fit for his company being frustrated and that when I get the doors we will then be going in different directions. I asked him does that mean he will not be willing to sell to me and he said yes my company and his need to go our seperate ways..... I said that attitude is unbeliveable to me, I am upset that you have entirely to long delays twice on the same project and the delay would be 3 weeks more if I had not already complained once before.

If anyone reads this message and considers buying Touchstone Fine Cabinetry products I would caution you to think twice. They have no regard for the end user and their perception of the expeirence.

I have spent about 35,000 with them this year. I had another kitchen I did with them last year I ordered in July which was not completed until day before thanksgiving the cabinets were painted 2 different shades of off white in a paper work mix up. We had custom color blocks made while the cabinets were being made. The owner decided against the custom color and chose last minute standard colors offered. The kitchen had inset and frameless cabinets. The custom color was applied to one and the standard color was applied to the other cabinet type. It took 3 times of sending the doors and drawers back to them before they got it right. Tuesday before thanksgiving last year they were supposed to deliver all the doors and drawers so I could put the kitchen back together. I got a call saying their plans had changed and they would deliver the following week because they did not have someone to drive the truck going to my area. I ended up meeting another truck 4 hours away at midnight that night to get all the items so I could put everything back together before the holiday which was 4 months after ordering them.

I have also posted many times on here about River Run which sells cabinets made from China. I used to feel ok about them as a business. This year I have done 4 or 5 orders with them. Not once have I been able to ever speak to someone on the phone when I call the number for dealers. Usually cabinet companies will have a customer service center that you can get thru to some one on in a few minutes wait worst case. They are the only cabinet company I have ever tried to work with where in the entire year I have to leave a voice mail and wait till the next day to get a call or email back.

I have an account that requires payment before orders are released for assembly or pick up un assembled. This year the lead time to send an order to them and have it faxed back to you after entered into their system has been 3-5 days. Most companies do it in 24 hours or once a week if they do it weekly. River Run does not send you notice that payment is accepted or received so you have official notice that your order is in the works. An appointment is required to pick up your order with them. In august I let a the owner of a granite company order cabinets directly at my cost for his own house. I called every day for 1.5 weeks asking if they had charged the card to release the order. I never got a call back saying yes. I finally got a call from them asking if someone would be at the delivery address in an hour from the call to accept delivery. That same morning the card holders account did not show his card had ever been charged. I told them I furious for being left in the dark as this was my first order I had done where they assemble and deliver them instead of picking and doing it myself. All previous orders I knew when to pick up and the the order was released.

I ordered another kitchen with them in Oct. I had the same thing happen no one answers the phone no one sends me notice payment was accepeted. Never told the cabinets are being assembled. Never given an appointment for pick up as that was what I wanted. I finally got a call back day before the cabinets should have been ready and got an appointment scheduled after being told it should have been done the week before on the part of the River Run. I told them I was trying to fax in a form to return molding they gave me that was the wrong color from the order before that I needed to switch and the fax machines were not working. I said I would bring it to them and we could work it out when I pick up. The molding is in stock in the warehouse mind you. I was told they will not be able to switch the molding if I do not fax the paperwork 24 hours before so management can approve the switch. I said again fax machines are not working for poor line condition. I brought the molding and the paperwork and the guy there agreed to switch it as it was a no brainer which took him less then 5 minutes to do. When you arrive at their national building you are not allowed in it. All doors are locked. You have to call a number from your cell phone to ask them to open the door. Probably 50 people work there.

While loading the order on to my truck I learn there was supposed to be a cabinet missing that was out of stock. This can take weeks if the next one is on a boat some where. I later said in an email that made it to the presidents desk I was not happy they did not tell me the order was orignially to be incomplete.

With all the frustration of the transaction I was not the most cheerful person when I picked up the cabinets. I learned that my experience and subsequent email to the sales rep who is a friend of mine made it to the presidents desk and they were considering closing my account. I told the sales rep who is in the process of starting his own brand of cabinets to compete with River Run I did not mind if they close the account since I would switch to his new thing anyways.

Well 4 weeks goes by and the contractor finally starts installing the kitchen. I get a call they need more scribe molding and they want a panel to cover a cabinet not close to wall after leveling it. I called River Run to ask how long the process would take to get the order approved so I can tell the contractor what to expect and had to leave a voice mail. 24 hours later I get an email back saying to send in the order and they will process it. Of course this never answers my original question. I email what is needed and later in the day I get another email saying a supervisor would not process the order as my account is closed. It is ironic to me I had my account closed for complaining they do not communicate........ They said to call my sales rep to see what can be done. I have been calling since last thursday asking them to let me have the molding and panel so I can finish the job. I finally got a call back saying they will order it for me and if they are not busy with other orders I may get something tomorrow if not it will be the next day. Mind you this is just to get the order in the system. I still have to wait to send the money and then wait to get permission to go pick it up. It has taken 1 week to just get and reply to pay for on a kitchen they have already sold to me and closed my account before the project is done.

River Run service is beyond awfull at this point. Their quality is middle of the road for Chinese cabinets to begin with. I would strongly suggest you think twice before considering them if you are. I have been selling their cabinets for about 4 years now by the way.

I am absolutely amazed at the attitude of several cabinet companies I have worked with. All of them seem to feel they are God and you should worship them if they chose to sell you their products. That has been true of the low mid and high end companies I have tried to design and sell.

I have been trying to stick with national names for the supposed branding and backing big companies are suppposed to give you. I have all but given up on that idea. I now am trying to go with a mom and pop shop that is local with all the equipement of the national brands to see what that is like since you do not have good websites and literature. So far the response from people I have suggested them to has been mixed. We will see how it goes.

As a side note for those on the quest for low priced products .... JSI has introduced 2 new cabinet series the Craftsman and Craftsman premier. The dealer cost for their cabinets which have North American maple or Alder woods all plywood construction with UV coating not a laminate over plywood solid wood dove tail drawers and available soft close drawers is the lowest price of any company I have ever had the prices on to date.