Discovered a good reason not to have cabs to the ceiling.

10 years ago

Can't make the crown molding (moulding?) work. Can. Not.

In the back of my mind I always sensed this would be a problem but pushed it back to solve 'later'. Later is here.

If the ceiling wasn't knotty pine it would be okay but it is and having the light stained white oak cabs/trim up to the knotty pine ceiling and then trying to transition between the two light but different wood crowns (KP and WO) on the face of the cabs (uppers go wall to wall with no corners) ain't getting it.

The KP trim is bought and paid for and half up in the kitchen already so can't change it now.

Don't want to run the knotty pine crown across the top of the WO cabs so.... my best idea now is to keep the cabs down (yes, the dreaded dust hole) at 42" and have 12" to the ceiling... plenty of room for the 4" KP crown to go around the ceiling. Ugh. Well, I can always have some lighting on top of the cabs which will make the ceiling look pretty. AND, I've seen quite a few lovely kitchens on here where the cabs are down from the ceiling so that helps me feel better about it. I think oldbat's cabs are like this... or were in her old kitchen? Or was that beekeepers?

Should I make the uppers 39" leaving 15" of space above so I can put some of my nifty vintage cake stands, etc up there?

Bummer, but out of ideas on this.

Featured Answer

deedles
Original Author

10 years ago

linelle: our ceiling is 9ft, too. I read your tip about the paper up there in a different thread.. I had a space like that in my old house and oh was it a greasy mess... but., I didn't have a range hood. I think the paper idea is a good one and we do have a nice Tradewinds vent hood now, so I'm thinking the mess may be much less than I had before. Really like the idea of cabs all the way up for the storage... seen so many kitchens where the cabs stop short of the ceiling that look just lovely, so that's not really my problem. I'd rather lose the not-very-accessible space than look at some clumsily executed trim job for the rest of my life and I am not seeing an obvious way to go about it other than keeping the cabs down and the ceiling trim separate from the cab crown entirely.

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Comments (25)

jdez
10 years ago
I say go all the way to the ceiling and put knotty pine moulding at the top and then try some knotty pine trim at the bottom of the uppers to make the two woods go together. That would be my fix but I love wood and different types of wood being together does not bother me.
raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
10 years ago
I don't think that I am quite getting it, but based on what I am picturing, I wonder if you can use a thinner, plain KP trim to go across the top of the cabs? So it would blend in with the ceiling, and match the KP crown but not really draw much attention?

I am in sympathy, my project for today is to replace the trim around the windows.
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In my last home, I had 8' ceilings, and I had 42" cabinets with a narrow molding. Loved it! You can NEVER have too much storage IMHO. You THINK you'll never use those top shelves, but believe me, you WILL. I am not a fan of a lot of molding - just MHO and my own personal taste, but I think a big molding looks great in a den or library bookcase, but is too fussy for the kitchen (sorry!). In my current home, I have 9" ceilings, so I have 42" cabs, plus another short set of cabs stacked above them. I don't think it looks closed in at all; in fact I think it makes the kitchen look larger. Also, I toured a mansion (tour was for charity) that had a butler's pantry. The butler's pantry was quite small, but had custom cabinets to the ceiling - gorgeous, and the height really made it look elegant. Also, in my area at least, the realtors say that 42" cabinets are considered more desirable and "high-end". You may choose to believe that or not, but you will see real estate ads here that make a point of saying "kitchen comes with 42" cabinets". Sudiepav - I too am short (5'3"), and for me, I need a stepstool for anything above the second shelf (or even for the back of the second shelf), regardless of the height of the cabinet. So whether the cabs are 36" or 39" or 42", it doesn't matter, I'll need that stepstool. So not sure if a person's shortness would figure into this decision...I guess it depends on just how short they are!
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Your kitchen designer sounds like a person who does not see all roads leading to home meaning there are many different ways to achieve the same goal... Most semi custom cabinet companies that are limited to be more Henry Ford like in production do not offer the 12" high cabinets in each 3" width from 9" to 36" or wider. They tend to offer them for the sizes used over the appliances which use them the most. So 30, 33, and 36" would be commonly needed. Your kitchen plan normally has a lot of other widths used that are not those sizes. The companies that have the stacked cabinets pre made are generally 42" or higher. I have 5 cabinets lines I offer. 3 of the 5 do not have stacked cabinets in the book.... One of the 3 has 12" high cabinets starting 12" wide but does not have a corner cabinet less then 30" high.... They happen to offer custom cabinets on a quote by quote basis which is why I like them. But you should see my point... Your kitchen designer should have explained better the reason why they did not offer you what you were looking for. It is either they feel a 27" under a 12" with a 3" crown over that is not a good use of space or.... they do not have a company they can do it at all or for the price they are planning to present to you.... That discussion would have been much more meaning full.... I can for example use a stacked cabinet that is 42" having 2 open compartments, with Showplace and shrink it 3" if you want the molding as most would... I can also with them as was suggested above just build the door with a glass panel in the top section of it. They are # 4 out of my 5 as 5 being the highest price in general.... 18" is the general rule of thumb for recommended clearance to the countertop. 15" is considered as low as you should go and 21" is pushing the upper side of reasonability for most projects... The codes as noted above are concerned with being able to set fire to combustible wood cabinets having appliances that generate heat under them... You should be able to do what you are looking for. You just have to decide what look you like, crown or no crown, and find who can offer it to you at a price you can afford...
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I didn't go up to the ceiling - there were a few reasons: My kitchen feels closed in & I like having the open space, I have a walk in pantry that is just about as big as my kitchen, so I don't need much storage in my kitchen, really just for dishes/glasses & some pots/pans & probably the most important reason was my very tight budget. But like someone posted already, I had already had 30" cabinets & that is what I was used to & didn't feel like I needed extra storage. I'm 5'9" & can barely reach the top row of my 30" cabs, I would rather not have to drag out the step stool every time, but if I didn't have the attached pantry I may have changed my mind. I originally thought I would display some baskets or teapots, but now I like the empty space & there is less to dust.
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roarah, you misunderstood what I was saying. There is certainly nothing wrong with disliking something or having a personal preference. However, if someone starts a thread saying they love something, I don't see a point in responding with something snarky about how that loved thing is bad. There is nothing nice about responding that way. We are all entitled to our opinion, but there is no reason we have to give it at all times. If this was a thread started by a lover of oak, I also wouldn't comment on anything negative about oak. I think that would similarly be insensitive to the OP and anyone else who enjoys it. Please don't think I am suggesting similar behavior or comments are appropriate on other decor topics. I never said that. For the record, most people on GW are sweet enough to interact nicely and respectfully...... I've always appreciated that about this board.
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nosoccermom
10 years ago
I don't understand either, but why can't you just have a narrow strip that's light wood? I don't think it's a problem if oak and KP meet.

{{!gwi}} Isn't that also different wood?

{{!gwi}}
nosoccermom
10 years ago
Or could you have a very narrow moulding kind of set back from the cabinet to close off that dust/grease "hole"? Same kitchen as the one above.
{{!gwi}}

Another picture:
Bunny
10 years ago
I have 12" at the top of mine, too. Maybe because my ceilings are 9-ft. and my cabs are builder's grade stock size?

Deedles, listen, if you have this space your life won't be over nor will you be mocked and reviled by all who see it. Of course, if you can come up with a way that's satisfactory to you with the two woods (and frankly I'm having a little trouble visualizing what it is), then do away with the space.

It doesn't get as dirty up there as is commonly thought, but I don't sear and fry and create a lot of gunk that escapes the vent hood and rises. I do run lengths of paper towels up there, hidden, and change it them out periodically, so no scrubbing or dusting.

Plus, if you have acrobat cats, they love it up there. Something to think about. :)
deedles
Original Author
10 years ago
Hmmm. I guess what is putting me off is, well... take a look at this pic. Here is how we handled the trim around the Bradbury wallpaper over the pantry. I couldn't have the full 4" trim otherwise the paper would be so low that you wouldn't see half of it, so I had the guy frame out the paper and then die the big trim into the frame, continuing the smaller crown around the top. I think it looks good there for a 'hail Mary' last minute decision. So are you saying, nosoccermom, that it would look okay to do the same around the cabinets? The 4" trim would die into the face of the cab and the narrower crown (in pine) continue across the top of the cabs?

If we did that, it would look just like this picture if you imagined the upper cabinet where the wallpaper is. I guess I thought it would look funny to transition down to a narrow piece of trim from the 4" stuff. I definitely don't want the 4" KP across the cabs, what with all the knots and the whitish/yellowish tone vs. the WO.
rhome410
10 years ago
So...If you go with the oak crown on the oak cabs...all the way to the ceiling, with no pine crown on the cabs at all...the problem is where the 2 crowns meet (one dies into the other) at the ends? Too hard to cut? Looks awful for some (what) reason? I wouldn't try to do 2 crowns on the cabinets, but let them (the cabinets) appear to be in front of what would be on the wall. Hope that makes sense.

If you decide to drop the cabs and have space above...Do you LIKE the look of storage/display space on top? Seems like it's a love or hate issue. We have about 6 inches above our cabinets...because it's been 6 yrs and we haven't done the top molding yet... But because it's tighter, I have found that I don't have to worry about the dust issue as much. I could also see the benefit of adding ambient lighting up there, as we throw a string of lights over the range wall cabinets for Christmas, and I like it. 12" seems like a lot. Not enough for display and too much to be empty.
robo (z6a)
10 years ago
I vote to give the cabs their own WO crown and forget about the KP there entirely. Like all the pics nosoccermom posted, leave the KP wherever there aren't uppers.
User
10 years ago
Cats think the top of kitchen cabinets is space designed just for them!
User
10 years ago
Seriously, my KD did not understand when I said cabinets absolutely had to go to ceiling and I wanted no open shelves - non-negotiable!

Cats use countertops as launching pads. With no interesting place to go, they stay off the counter.
katy-lou
10 years ago
I'm not sure I get what the issue is here either - your guys is custom making the cabs - so you have flexibility to do whatever. Why not have the. Abs go all the way to the ceiling, scribe the face frame if you don't want additional "trim"
And have knotty pine molding die into the cabs?
nosoccermom
10 years ago
So, the way I understand it there are three options:
1. No ceiling-high cabinets
2. The narrow strip of KP above the crown of the WO cabinets, kind of instead of the wallpaper pic above, you'd have your cabinets.
3. Have the WO cabinets with their own crown and the 4" KP trim where you don't have ceiling high cabinets.

Can you do a mock-up? What are the cabinets going to look like on top, i.e. how much of a crown do they have?

Here are some other kitchens 'cause the same issue would be with painted cabs:

narrow strip

Here it looks like cabinet crown and trim where no cabinets are
Bunny
10 years ago
mdin, sorry, but LOL. :) My cats find the counter of plenty interest in and of itself. Hello? Food prep!!

One of my cats can't figure out how to jump from the top of the fridge to the space over the cabs. I think the outward angle of the crown is throwing him. He can't see what's above it, so it requires a leap of faith. His sister has no problem with it. He sits on the fridge and cries.
CEFreeman
10 years ago
Deedles, whatever you choose, it'll be elegant and look completely planned.

P.S. As mom of now 5, I'm up for cat space...
romy718
10 years ago
Deedles, if you have cats, now you have another good reason....to keep those cats entertained.
Linelle, poor little guy, crying. I bet his sister is up there taunting him.
deedles
Original Author
10 years ago
I'll have to think about this some more. Maybe I'm making a problem where one doesn't exist?

I keep looking for picture of crown transitions on the inside corner/face frame of a cabinet and can't find any.

Arlosmom has the same upper cabinet setup as mine will be, but she has no ceiling trim to deal with. (what a gorgeous kitchen!)
lavender_lass
10 years ago
I live on a farm and we have dust no matter what...so having a display space ANYWHERE means dusting! I like having some space between my upper cabinets and the ceiling. Many people do not, but that's what makes kitchen design so fun...it can reflect whatever YOU want to do in your kitchen :)

P.S. Have you thought about running your pretty wallpaper above your other upper cabinets? Two dimensional display doesn't need as much dusting...just a quick wipe along the top of the cabinets and you're done! LOL
deedles
Original Author
10 years ago
Lav, what are you doing up so late?

I found this picture and think it's just beautiful. Guess it doesn't matter too much to me if it to the ceiling or not, just so long as it looks appropriate however its done.

I did find one pic of a trim transition at the corner on the face of the cabinet and didn't care for it one bit.

Seems a little bit of that wallpaper goes a long way. I've got enough, lol.
Bunny
10 years ago
Romy, he thinks he is #1 cat and his much smaller twin sister runs rings around him.

What LL said. The example you showed at 4:07 looks just right. Who would ever say, oh no, the cabs should go all the way to the ceiling?

There are many kitchens on this forum that do have cabs all the way to the ceiling and look fabulous. I think a lot depends on the height of the ceiling and the way the upper cabs are done (e.g., stacked). Sometimes it can look a bit stretched and weirdly proportioned, so there's that.

Before my remodel and the addition of crown, I used to put display stuff up in the space. The crown has reduced the apparent space (about 11") and I prefer it empty. Since my cabs and walls are unmatching creamy white, the space doesn't call attention to itself.
kksmama
10 years ago
I like the pictures of wood cabinets going up to wood ceilings, and understand the value of the storage. Can you find pictures with wood cabinets stopping short of wood ceilings? I'd worry about that looking choppier. I think what you did with the wallpaper transition is lovely!
lavender_lass
10 years ago
LOL! It was only 12:11 my time...and we were up late celebrating the Seahawks win. My husband was thrilled since he's been a fan for decades :)

I like your picture...that will look great in your space!
nosoccermom
10 years ago
Wood ceilings and wood cabinets

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Can't find many without the rooftop gardens :)
jackfre
10 years ago
We just wrapped the top of the cabinets with 1x3 and over laid that with another piece 1/2x1 so it steps up to the ceiling. All cherry on ours. Simple easy and looks good, at least to me.
deedles
Original Author
10 years ago
Nosoccermom posted this pic on a different thread and I'm really liking that big flat crown board with the smaller piece on top... and the trim piece just above the doors really finished it out nicely. Thinking I could have my guy make the cabinet like this, keeping the doors down lower and but still having the interior height inside for tall things and then just adding the smaller trim bits to finish it. So, basically the upper front and side wall of the cab would look like part of the crown but would actually be cabinet inside. Liking this.

{{!gwi}}