Chicken blood.

Any faucet you want.

No electricity (Does the Pilar work in an outage? I don't know.).

Less water on the faucet deck since wet hands stay away.

Less stretching for short users who really can't get an elbow up there (and lets short users get away with a sink that is longer front-to-back than standard).

Did you see Bunnucula's Pilar post? It sure is pretty. And apparently battery powered, which is good.

Less water. I have thought about it, and I realized I want it for when washing dishes. I can turn on water to rinse without having dishes slip out of soapy hands, and turn it on just when I want to rinse without leaving it on the whole time I'm washing dishes. That's my reason, and I'm sticking to it, lol!
Lisa

It's not so much that I think you need a Tapmaster as that if you're comparing the two you need a Tapmaster. Some people here have the touch faucets and like them, but if you were in the "but I like it" camp, or if it were about the money, you wouldn't be asking. Instead look at what the various devices can give you.

The touch faucet allows you to not touch the mixer. I presume you also set the flow and temperature on that ahead of time.

But you still have to have the mixer lever. And if you have that free elbow or pinky, you can operate the mixer. Or get an old fashioned Moen style mixer that sticks out from the rear deck. It's still a matter of juggling that heavy pot, or putting it down, to get that elbow or pinky to the spout. For a giggle of a con read here.

The Tapmaster requires a little pedal dexterity. A very little. You can turn the water on just for while you hold it, or you can lock it on.

There's no tilting the heavy pot to free a finger. You can be cleaning veg under the stream, with a parsnip in one hand and a brush or peeler in the other, and toe the stream on and off, saving water and hassle. You can hold a hot skillet with one hand, stir with the other, and get a splash of water with your toe--you don't have to turn the water off because when you release the toe it stops.

I just don't think they're comparable devices. The one is a faucet with a great gimmick. You don't have to reach over to the mixer to turn it on. You can just pat it as you walk by. It's cool. People like it.

The Tapmaster is hands free and people love that. The other isn't. And the Tapmaster comes in thousands of faucet styles and finishes...because it'll work with just about any faucet.

I don't have either, yet. But I will get a Tapmaster.

The above reasons are all great and I totally agree but I don't like the "new" look of the Pilar. My house is 106+ years old and that faucet just doesn't work.

I have tried to post on your earlier thread but couldn't. I am glad you started this one.

I am sure either will work fine, although I haven't install my Pilar yet. I have used Tap Master kind of device and like it. I was looking at Tap Master until I saw a Pilar ad one day. For me Pilar touch-on works: it has the look I wanted and the feature I wanted, and all for only 300 some dollars.

The advantage of Tap master is that you are not "married to" a particular faucet, you can choose whatever faucet you want; the disadvantage is the cost: you pay extra $300 for TapMaster on top of the faucet cost. Another concern about TapMaster for me is that I have a big dog who likes mulling around the kitchen , I am not sure whether she can trigger the tapmaster.

davidro1, have you read the info on the Tapmaster website?
Have you done searches on this forum for Tapmaster? I don't know how far back the archives go, but you'll find more than enough to convince you.
I wish some of the old timers were here to convince you how the Tapmaster is one of those things that makes you ask "how did I ever get along without it?". There were so many positive write-ups about Tapmaster in 02 when I joined these forums, that I knew that many people couldn't be wrong. And guess what...they weren't :) If water conservation doesn't do it for you, how about being more efficient in the kitchen? If Efficiency doesn't do it for you, how about the cleanliness factor? The ONLY reason I can see for not getting a Tapmaster is if money is the issue. We remodeled our master bath in 07. Guess what the FIRST purchase was? Yes, you're right. Tapmaster was ordered in April but not ready for installation till Dec...I wasn't about to run out of money before I ordered my Tapmaster :) It's not a apples to apples comparison to compare the Tapmaster and touch-on faucets. I'm pretty sure there is a 30 or 60 money back policy.
Monica

WOW. That is one of the best messages ever. Also, you know what went on here years before I was conscious of GW. I'll now go searching. -- In the last 18 months, Tapmaster has been mentioned more as an insider's wink than like you just described it; I guess everybody knew all about it.

Messages move quickly here. Try the internet archive for more old threads.

Also check for threads about what people learned on GW, favorite things in the new kitchen, favorite gadgets, etc. Tapmaster, plugmold and airswitch were the big things when I first joined, and get a lot less mention now.

I just found out that the Delta turns itself off after a short time. Most of us are into saving water, but if you have a use for an uninterrupted continuous stream, that's another thing you can get from a Tapmaster.

Again, not trying to sell you on it. Just think it's a different kind of product.

Alright, I'll play devil's advocate.

How many times have you died from food contamination on your kitchen faucet? Seriously ill? Do you plan on no longer cleaning your kitchen after you get a new faucet?

As for other contamination, if you have dirt or paint all over your hands when you use the sink, you need a utility sink first and a gizmo second. Or a towel.

Speaking of kitchen safety, walking a hot skillet over to the sink, holding it one handed while stirring and shifting your balance so you can use a foot or knee lever is pretty far on the wrong side of kitchen safety.

Water savings... well, I dunno. I've never left my faucet running just for the heck of it. Certainly not while doing dishes. So the 1/3 second it takes to move my other hand from the handle so I have both under the water stream, and then another 1/3 of a second back would save how much water, exactly?

Washing your hands doesn't get off all the bacteria anyway, so picking up a couple extra that were already on your hands *and still is* when you turn the faucet off really doesn't worry me. It's not a public restroom or surgery cleanup.

Mess on the faucet deck -- well, I've never really had a problem with that. How much stuff do people really get back there? I know when you have one of those nasty deck plates you need to wipe back there as well as the front or it gets gunky, but the solution then is not to install the deck plate.

I've never been killed by food poisoning before--not even once--but I've always been careful. It's easier to be careful with a Tapmaster OR a Pilar.

It's not essential. It's just a nice gadget.

"an insider's wink"...I can understand how it might seem like that. I think it comes from an attitude (over the years) of "they just don't get it and I'm tired of trying". That's OK. I "got" it and couldn't be more pleased :) I guess I'm most impressed with the fluidity of my work flow/increased productivity with a Tapmaster. Guess it's just something you have to experience to truly understand.
Monica

You know it's simple, because the Tapmaster was the only thing in my whole ^%#& kitchen that my GC didn't screw up the installation of.

The first thing I made in my kitchen, when all I had was water and a wall oven, was cookies. Huge batch. The TM proved itself useful right away when I was rolling sticky molasses balls in sticky sugar while putting sheets in and out of the oven. I didn't have a single pinky that wasn't sticky. But I could roll, wash, move sheet, roll, etc...

Super fun!

Fori, it IS simple! You're absolutely right.

I've been around GW so long, I remember when Gellchom introduced all of us to the Tapmaster. She was my personal hero for tracking this down and being the first to install it in her kitchen. It seemed like a miracle really, and wasn't hard for anyone to figure out why it was a good idea. Those of us who have a personal relationship with Tapmaster are loyalists for a reason. We've debated the pedalvalve (toe-stubber; I tried one and saw an accident waiting to happen), the electronic eye faucets and touch faucets. Personally, it would drive me NUTS to have to keep touching the faucet when it turns itself off, if I wanted to fill my farmhouse sink for instance. Tapping the pedal valve on, and kicking it off lets off a little steam (if you need to) and the fact that it's under the toe-kick where your feel naturally are, make it so interactive/user friendly that you don't need a learning curve. It works every time. Slapping the faucet on the other hand, just doesn't feel the same as giving the pedal a good kick! You know, technology keeps keeping on, yet the Tapmaster still rules. Like Fori says, it is simple, really. It's good to remember...There's elegance in simplicity.

I'll always be grateful to Gellchom for introducing us to the Tapmaster. C de L, I bought my first one in 02. Was that the same year she discovered it? Or was it 2001?
Kathy, I'm going to take issue (just a little bit) with your wording of "kicking" the Tapmaster plate. I even discussed this with Bill (of Integra Dynamics). I think using the word "kick" might give people the wrong impression of what you have to do to disengage it. Just simply pressing your big toe (I've even activated it with the side of my foot while facing to the right or left of the sink) against the plate starts the water flow. If it's in a locked position (allows you to operate the faucet normally) placing your toe at the bottom of the plate and pushing in and up unlocks it. I've never had to "kick" it :) I've had company that wanted to tho (lol)
BTW, have you figured out your toilet noise problem yet? I've been waiting to see you post about on the Bathroom forum.
Monica

Can any of you with TapMaster experience comment on the different styles of controls? I'm leaning towards installing the euro control model due to what looks to be a less visibly obtrusive design, but I'm guessing that most of those commenting above have probably used the kick plate version. Any pro's/con's you can offer? thx!!

You're right, fori. It's cool; there's no argument against that! I just think the advantages are grossly exaggerated. I've yet to see an automatic faucet that actually uses less water -- on the contrary, they spit out a lot of water even when you only need a tad because that was the last setting. But the TM may not have that weakness.

However, if one were truly concerned about conserving water and food safety, one wouldn't be buying groceries at the grocery store. E. coli doesn't wash off.

Davidro, not to take away from the Tapmaster, but I thought I'd add a little more info on the touch faucets in this thread. On Friday I tried to post this message in your other question on Tapmaster vs Touch, but for some reason it messed up in the middle of it and that post won't allow any more replies. So I hope you don't mind, I'm going to finish my half completed reply here to your query on Friday. Here's what I wrote:

I can understand and appreciate the virtues of the Tapmaster, but I really feel the exact same way about the Pilar's virtues. Rarely do I not have a body part available (pinky, elbow, anything else) that cannot just brush the Pilar to start the water and thereby prevent any contamination or gunk on my faucet. Raw chicken all over your hands? No problem, brush the faucet anywhere along the spout or handle with the back of your hand or a touch of your arm, your elbow, and voila! instant water. I haven't found it to be awkward at all even with a big pot in my hands. As you put the pot in the sink, brush the backside of your hand on the spigot and the water's on.

One advantage to the Tapmaster is that you can use it with any faucet. I happened to love the lines of the Pilar even if it wasn't a touch faucet. It was my first choice based on looks alone. But it may be too modern looking for some kitchens. It does have the really nice, strong, aerated water flow that I'm partial to. To me the touch feature was just a bonus that I didn't know would be so good and so handy until I had it. I think Tapmaster owners feel the same way, as it does the same thing. Do you want your faucet on with a touch of your foot or an upper body part seems to be the main difference in usage. Personally, I'm not well coordinated with my feet and I think I'd have trouble adjusting to that. Of course the mechanics and technologies between the two are different. Also, when on full force the Pilar does put the water rather far out into the sink, not over the center of the drain. I keep the volume of the flow turned down.

The Brizo Pascal is a great looking faucet that I considered, but I saw one installed in a k & b shop in the "hands free" mode and it was annoying. It came on when you approached it too close, went off sometimes when you moved around it, and didn't give me what I wanted when I wanted it. Apparently you can switch it to just a touch mode, which I'd like better.

So good luck in making your choice, I don't think you can go wrong on any of them.

Your guests use less water because they can't figure out how to turn it on.

:)

I would not consider these devices to be significant water savers unless you really do wash a lot of produce or other little items at once, but those who are concerned about water conservation probably already have systems for those.

I kind of like it because I can set the water volume down to a pretty low flow--I get splashing at full flow.

It's not something I'm going to hit the streets to evangelize; I just like the TapMaster. But it's pricey. I have disposable income; if I didn't, I could skip the TM and get by just fine.

You can always add it later (at least wait for it to go on sale!).

claire_de_luna, I don't know HOW in the world I missed your long reply. I honestly don't think it there when I posted 4 hours AFTER you did (lol)
I see you haven't lost your touch (as I have)...you're still cranking out awesome and informative replies. And that's why you were MY personal hero all those years ago :)

davidro1, before the search feature went belly up, I did a search for Tapmaster. The archives don't go back near as far as they needed to for you to read the threads when people were still trying to convey the greatness that is Tapmaster :)
Here are the results I got with an advanced Google search. Don't know how far back it goes tho.
Monica

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Results for GW Tapmaster Conversations

Jugo, I haven't seen the euro control model, but the toe-kick model isn't even close to what I'd call visibly intrusive. Most people don't look up/down, and you have to stand at a distance and know where to look to even see the toe-kick plate. If you think the way it looks will bother you, please get the other version so you can answer questions for anyone else who would also like to try it. I have the one with dual toe-kicks on a corner sink, which might be more visible if you knew to look for it.

The reason most go with the toe-kick is everyone's feet are at the same place, whereas a different control like that for your knee would have to be custom placed for one user. There is a full 12 inches between my husband's height and mine. If there are kids in the house, you know that's even more. Equality for every user, you see, is what makes that particular model the most popular.

Monica, I think it was 2001 when TM was first introduced to us, but then I've slept since then. I'd been a GW lurker for quite a long time before I actually joined, and you could actually read the older posts as they hung around a little longer than they do now. I bought my first one for the bathroom and knew instantly it would be going in my kitchen. When I said that about ''kicking'' the toe-plate, it was a little tongue in cheek. Just a sharp tap with the toe can feel like a kick to me! (Re: the washlet...It's going to be sent in for repairs. It's either the pump or the heater. There's only a 3-day turn-around time, but I hate to lose it for even one so we haven't done it yet.)

I know TM's save water, as there are people (who shall remain nameless) that turn on the water and let it RUN the entire time they are brushing their teeth. Doing the math for one person who brushes twice a day reveals much. It depends on your habits of course, and how aware of real conservation you are. Using only what you need is water conservation at its best.

The euro control is also in the toekick. It's a vertical bar which hangs down like a pendulum, however, rather than a plate, and you push it to the side for on, and farther for continuous on. It works in either direction. I have tender tootsies and thought I'd like it better.

Fori is probably right that if you're into really really serious water saving you draw a bowl of water and use that for all your rinsing. But if you're mostly brushing (carrots, potatoes, etc.), and just want a little squirt, you should have finer control even than using the mixer handle because it's just open/shut, rather than having to move into the correct position.

Kathy, I didn't know you determined the sound was coming from your Washlet :( Heaven forbid anything ever happen to mine and I can't afford $700 for a new one :o I think I need to start a "Washlet fund" for when mine goes out (and can't be repaired).
Monica

After that description, you made me look. I think I would hate that model. With the toe-kick version, you don't need to do anything to turn it on except walk up to it and put the tip end of your foot to the plate. It looks like the euro version requires you to move your foot sideways to activate it. Personally, I find a sideways motion more problematic than using a ''straight-on'' motion, as an issue with balance; but...To each his own. (I know it would be more of a problem with an ankle injury, which happens to me frequently.) Please report back if you buy it and like it!

Ergonomics. Finer control. plllog above: ".... brushing (carrots, potatoes, etc.) ... a little squirt, you should have finer control even than using the mixer handle because it's just open/shut, rather than having to move into the correct position...."

Ergonomics. Less adjusting the faucet handle.
" .... It was hard for me to believe ... you just really don't change the water temps as often as you might think you do. ... I can easily go all day without changing the water temps (or maybe once). It's SUCH a non-issue..."

Ergonomics. Less adjusting the faucet handle. Less water dripping around the base. (and thus cleaner) Less drip mess to wipe up.
" ... I find (for the kitchen) I have the flow set to med and water temp about the same. Rarely do I change either. I know that seems hard to imagine. I doubted it too but too many were sooo passionate about the Tapmaster and the idea was soooo appealing, I gave it a try :) ..."

Ergonomics. Less water dripping around the base. (and thus cleaner) Less drip mess to wipe up.
susan4664 Feb 7 2008 : My reason for wanting one is my sink is so large that when I am washing something, then reach up to turn the water off, the water from my hands drips all over behind the sink and on the counter.

Ergonomics. Less water dripping around the base. (and thus cleaner) Less drip mess to wipe up.
Morton5 Oct 12 2009 : It took me a couple of weeks to adjust to it, but it soon became one of my favorite things in my kitchen. I think it cuts my clean-up time by at least a third. Also, I don't have water pooling behind the tap from wet hands, so I think it reduces the risk of mildew.

I am now 100% certain that there are many people who dislike wet and-or scale around escutcheons and faucet bases.
"... did away with the above counter air gap: Yes, one less thing to clean around!! ..."

Also, related to "finer control"
" ... conserves water usage. That was the least of my concerns when I bought my first one over 5 years ago. Now water conservation is more important issue to me. ..."

-d

For a third option...

A year ago we renovated our kitchen (http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg012014495340.html) and installed a foot-operated valve (Fischer #3070) with mixing valve (Legend Anti-scald) below the sink.

In the left image one can see the foot valve and flexible piping that connects it to the mixing valve and faucet fitting. The cabinet drops over the whole assembly with a mousehole in the kick panel to clear the valve. The valve is secured to the floor using 'threads in wood' with small access holes in the cabinet bottom in case we ever have to replace the piping. The right image shows the mixing valve tucked between the hot and cold risers.

This installation bypasses the faucet valve but uses the spray head at the faucet thanks to a specialized fitting that is installed just ahead of the check valve. It requires some creative plumbing to build the fitting, but we believe it is far more functional than either the Tapmaster or touch faucets. The mixing valve will get warm water to the faucet more quickly and is set for 110 degrees to avoid scalds when the water in the lines is hot.

A foot valve is a separate water flow system that bypasses the faucet valve. This makes it possible to use either the foot valve or the faucet as needed without locking one or pre-setting the other. In the end the cost is probably the same but it requires a pull-out style of faucet and a custom fitting at the pull-out hose to bring the foot- and faucet-flows back together as well as some specialized plumbing and cabinet work.

Tapmaster uses the existing faucet valve to regulate temperature and flow and *must* be used to get water from the faucet. Touch faucets have electronic parts that will be the first thing to fail.

Option #3 sounds like it has the best of both worlds, although it might be more of a challenge to install.

I love custom plumbing.
Let me know if I've caught the concept.
1. a foot pedal (same idea as a Tapmaster), combined in parallel with
2. a (manual) faucet handle (or 2.a. a touch on a metal bar to activate touch a sensitive triggering circuit)

I'm OK with installing an either-or setup so as to get water either by route A or route B.
Installation comes down to intercepting the hose to the pulldown sprayhead and adding another input "source" there.
I see an advantage here, in the fact that the two sources can be combined.
Thereby one can have a "nice BUT weak" flow from either source, and a stronger flow if desired, by combining both.
That gives 3 choices: either route A or route B or routes A and B combined.

This setup is possible when there's a hose going to a pullout or pulldown.
This is because right after the handle mixer cartridge is the point where the alternate source branches in.
The alternate source has its own mixer, under the counter. It's set once, and can be adjusted.

Custom plumbing, here we come!

With a Tapmaster, one can have either - or. Not both (that's OK).
The mixer inside the faucet is the only one.
For the Tapmaster to trigger flow, the faucet mixer has to be left on.

-- I see one more advantage (for me) to having a Tapmaster or a separate input from a second mixer.
Eliminating the faucet as we know it today. I can have a couple little levers, and no big and shiny swan on my deck -- the "spray head" i.e. handshower is the thing I need. It would get perched in a holder and that's it, nothing more.

More custom plumbing!
Mmmm!

I've been thinking of adding one in my new prep sink and I have two weeks to decide.

Where do you purchase them?? Any good deals out there?

My regular sink will have an Elkay prerinse faucet. Will I be able to use it with that faucet?
thanks

I am also interested. My budget will not allow for 2 so if you could only install one, which sink would you choose?
Main or Prep?
TIA
Suzette

Just a bit of clarification...

The treddle at the foot valve operates the valve directly. There is no switchplate or electrical interconnection as in the tapmaster. It is pretty much full on or off, but with a bit of practice one is able to modulate the flow a bit. The flow from the foot valve is at least as strong as the flow from the faucet mixer.

The manufacturer's website is fisher-mfg.com. We got ours here: plumbingsupply.com/footandkneevalves.html. The anti-scald valve is here: plumbingsupply.com/scald.html.

Here's how the fitting looks under the faucet. It is from an inspection cam so it is not very good.

The faucet is a Moen. On the left is the line going up from the footvalve, the black fitting is the backflow valve that comes with the faucet. Above that is the custom fitting that hooks it all together. At the top is a 3/16" compression fitting at the nipple coming down from the faucet. Then a brass T with fittings to connect to the 1/2" line from the footvalve. At the bottom is another faucet nipple soldered into the T. This nipple came from an old faucet since the backflow valve uses snap clips to make the connection. I figured that we could have cut the faucet nipple and soldered it directly into the T at both top and bottom. All that is needed is enough free length at the bottom for the backflow valve to make the connection. Further to the right are the hot and cold supply lines from the faucet and the flexible line to the sprayhead at the faucet. Note that the backflow valve is downstream from both the faucet mixer and the foot valve to provide the safety as intended.

Suzette, I got mine from conservastore.com and it arrived directly from the Canadian manufacturer ridiculously fast. They go on sale occasionally, so you might want to send them an email and ask when the next sale is.

Davidro, you might be interested in the Kohler Hi-Rise faucet. It's a sprayer with its own mixer valve.

There is no switchplate or electrical interconnection as in the tapmaster.

The Tapmaster has no electrical interconnection. You can see the whole plumbing connection on their website.

Thank you fori, I will inquire about any upcoming sales.
Suzette

Monicakm and Claire de Luna, thank you so much for your nice posts! I am touched that you remember me.

I put the Tapmaster in in 2001, but I think it was early 2002 when I posted about it.

Anyway, I guess I've lived with it the longest. We still love it and have had exactly zero problems with it.

Another advantage: plumbers LOVE it when they are unclogging the drain, tinkering with the dw, etc. They don't have to keep getting up to try running water.

I haven't tried the touch-type faucet. I think I would be accidentally turning it on all the time and wetting my sleeve (like with the electric eye type). But I know I move too precipitously and clumsily!

I do like not having to use any hand at all, especially when both hands are full or dirty. I agree that I've never gotten sick (that I know of) from bacteria on my faucet. But it's nice not to have to clean it so often.

I first bought it when I was frustrated during a drought; at that time we had a 2-handle faucet. I didn't want to keep the water running, but I didn't want to have to keep turning it on and off and readjusting the temperature and pressure to "just right" dozens of times during one clean-up session, either.

It's true that the cost savings are probably minimal. But the water bill isn't the only issue; there are environmental concerns about wasting water, too, even when there's no drought.

That was the reason I first thought about a hands free faucet. I couldn't find one when we remodeled that kitchen, in 1992 or something. But when we moved to this house, there was the Internet! Took me only a few minutes to find it (I think I searched "dentist" and "hands free" or something).

The reason we love it, though, is the convenience. I wish I had one on every sink.

Our bathroom has a marble toe kick. Do you think I could put in a TM there?

Has anyone used the Euro model yet? If so, how is it? The TapMaster site says you can push the lever in any direction...left, right, push in, pull out...and it will work. You're only limited to left/right if you want to lock it "on".

Now that I finally installed my NeverMTs, I'm ready to tackle the TapMaster battle ($296 @ Conservastore)...I want one for my prep sink, at least. (I suspect once my DH sees how nice it is to use he'll want one on the cleanup sink as well...)

So, any input on the Euro style is welcome! (The cabinet door one is out since I sometimes lean on the sink cabinet doors w/my knees while working at the sink.)

[hanging head] still no faucets.... I like the compactness of the controller, however.

I'm interested in the Euro model too. any feedback on it?

No one ever answered the question about using it with a pre-rinse faucet. Can You???

Datura, give them a call or e-mail. They're really nice and helpful. I can't see why it wouldn't work with a pre-rinse faucet, if the faucet can be set to continuous flow upon turn on. It wouldn't work if you're required to touch the faucet each time you turn it on. So ask them!

Actually, it would work anyway. It's just if you have to turn on the flow manually you might as well turn the whole thing on. Though with the tapmaster you'd always have it set to your preferred temperature and flow rate.

Lol - Not having been involved in kitchen renovation in many years, I hadn't really had the Pilar faucet in my consciousness until I saw this thread. Then the next day, a commercial came on TV for one. With no comment from me, my husband (who didn't even know about this thread) declared, "What a stupid idea! You still have to use your hand. It's cool, but if it's not hands-free, what's the big advantage? Why would anyone get that if they could get a TapMaster?"

has anyone had any problems with small children always feeling the need to tap the tapmaster every time they walk by it? I like the concept, but with 2 small children, I could see in my future alot of yelling at them to stop kicking it....

Wow lots of great info here. I'm looking to install a hands free solution in my kitchen too. What's the difference between the tapmaster and others like Pedal Valve and IZIFLOW? The IZIFLOW product seems to be half the price of tapmaster?

I love finding old threads. Doing a search for a dw model and came across this Tapmaster thread. Davidro1, if you're still around...did you buy a Tapmaster? I now have 3 (one at each sink). Got our last one (last year) on ebay for about 1/2 price.