Sayde, I was thinking about this as I got dressed this morning. My go-to outfit is gray jeans, a white t-shirt, and a black sweater. Today I mixed it up a bit with a blue-gray t-shirt and a dark brown sweater. So if I come up with an essentially colorless kitchen, nobody should be surprised! That said, I certainly don't want anything bleak. My husband wants something "happy." That narrows it down, doesn't it?

You're also so right about white kitchens photographing well. I've developed a humongous file (maybe 800 pictures, and I'm glad it's all digital) of kitchens and kitchen components I like. Most are white kitchens, many are gray, some are light/medium wood, and a few are very dark wood. The only thing I can say for sure is that I like well-designed, professionally-photographed kitchens. I mentioned this to my daughter one time, and now when I show her a new kitchen picture and ask, "What do you think about this one?" she might say, "Great photography, Mom!"

She's only 10 but my daughter is my favorite sounding board. She doesn't watch TV, read decorating magazines, or pay attention to kitchen forums. Her family and friends (except her grandparents with the uber-kitchen) have the most ordinary suburban kitchens in the world. She gives me the best advice! She had just turned 5 when she went with me to look at the house we are currently living in. She gave it a quick once-over and said, "The kitchen's too small and there's no place for our piano." How right she was!

ROTFL!! It is timeless, like jeans, boots and a plain tee shirt.

I'm showing my age here. I'm not old, but I remember when that was the uniform of the working man, farmer, hiker, cowboy/girl, or drudge and absolutely not a timeless look that one could wear in town and be considered "dressed". A woman, at least in the West, might dress like that at home, to get her work done, but would have been looked down upon going out like that. Yes, it's a current, unadorned look that can pass just about anywhere, but timeless, it is not.

The OTK might be timeless in some parts of the country. Where I live it looks very 21st century. It just wasn't the look here the first few times around. Makes me realize that I'm being true to my heritage, however, as colorful tiles, though very different ones than I have, are a hallmark of traditional kitchens here.

Depends on the exact jeans, boots, and shirt, I guess. :-)

My mother wore gloves to go downtown. If you wore jeans, someone would have handed you a trowel. I didn't grow up in the 19th century, either. Watch how people dress on "Pan Am."

There are two characteristics of the OTK phenomenon that make it a quasi-religious doctrine. The first is its missionary zeal, as we've discussed. The second is its catechism of fantastical beliefs.

The OTK is not "timeless." Period. Virtually nobody was renovating kitchens in the 60s and 70s and even '80s with white subways plus soapstone plus white inset plus plus plus. You couldn't even easily buy new subways until relatively recently--maybe ten, fifteen years ago? I know, because friends of mine tried to repair some old tilework some years back, and couldn't find new subways anywhere. The predecessors of the OTK "look"--the kitchens of Edwardian houses, bungalows, and early '20s houses--died out by the 1930s. From then on, for most of the 20th century, kitchen cabinets mostly had overlay doors and drawer fronts. Some were indeed white-painted wood, but many more were stained wood or metal or whatever. And they had a lot more "frilly" details than the OTK, such as scalloped valances. Even Victoria Hagen has only been in business for 20 years.

Ten or twenty years from now, nobody will call the OTK "timeless." Large-format tiles have already begun to creep up on subways.

I understand the attraction of the vintage details of the OTK and plan to use many of them in my own kitchen. But many of the OTK claims make no sense to me at all. One is the insistence that an all white and black room is "warm." Especially in context of the fact that nobody says that about any other all-white room in a house, even on GW. There is regular grumbling on the Decorating forum when somebody posts yet another magazine cover showing a completely white living room or bedroom, and many people find it cold. Apparently white is cold when it's the color of flokati rugs and drapery and chenille upholstery, but it really warms up when it's rendered in ceramic, steel and stone.

You couldn't even easily buy new subways until relatively recently--maybe ten, fifteen years ago?

True dat. When we first looked at houses in 1996, I fell in love with a bathroom with its 1920s original subway tile mostly intact. A few tiles needed to be replaced, and the RE agent told me with great assurance that "no one is making those anymore."

I much prefer the CP apostate kitchen to the "scullery" kitchen as far as warmth and charm, but maybe that's because I have white kitchen fatigue (WKF). And the appellation "scullery" to describe those high-end kitchens annoys me to no end. And if I never hear the phrase "creamy white" again it'll be too soon. /rant

I have been following this KF for several years now, and have seen many very nice finished kitchens posted. Probably more and nicer ones that in the general population, since so many here are so passionate about form and function, and do a lot of research before committing to expensive decisions. But through it all, it as only been the OTK devotees who have consistently expounded about their "timeless", "classic", "tasteful" whites. So, by inference, all alternate concepts are trendy, trashy, and tasteless???

I previously touched on the regionality of design trends, and I think the subject deserves more discussion. Where I live on the cold northern prairies, our outdoor environment is dominated for much of the year by tans, greys, and dirty whites. The last thing I want is to bring the same palette indoors in my home. Especially this time of year, as we are setting into 5+ months of winter, a creamy white kitchen is neither calm, serene, or warm. It is downright depressing.

So, for the record, I have to say that my almost 3 yr old timeless classic blue/brown kitchen still thrills me. My heart sings every time I braise, sear, or even reheat within its cozy, welcoming confines.

Okay I feel like I should weigh in here based on my experience of working at the Edsel Ford House. This house has a full 'working' kitchen, which was to say that the home owners never cooked. They have full white cabinetry, silver countertops in the cooking area, and cork counters in the butlers pantry. It has a very similar feel to the OTK. Keep in mind this kitchen is original and fully in tact. Many times tours would be going through and everyone would 'ooh and ahh' at the cabinetry, marble and ceramic subway tiles, and counters. Here is a picture of the kitchen plus a link to a photostream with more photos. Look familiar? At least a bit? Mrs. Ford also has a flower room similar to styles people use for kitchens today.

Here is a link that might be useful: More Ford House photos

cooksnsews - good point. I live on the west (PNW - Canadian side) coast in the forest. We are headed into 5 months of grey wet rain. I have a creamy white kitchen, with shiny wood floors and shiny granite. Nothing matte or honed.. The thought of wood cabinets, although beautiful and we have natural maple in the bathrooms, depresses me and we need shiny surfaces to get as much light as possible.

JGopp, thanks for the photo! That kitchen definitely reflects the post Dr. Lister anti-septic look that was popular in those days for kitchens, bathrooms and hospitals. One imagines that the servants had run of this kitchen, so it would have been clean and utilitarian rather than "heart sing".

Mom run kitchens of the same era on the West Coast featured tile floors, and colorful tile walls and counters. Still easy to clean with bleach or kerosene, but much cheerier. ;)

I think with this, as with other issues of apparel and home design, people do make reference to their surroundings. In the far North, where there's little light and people get depressed, a lot of clear, vibrant colors, mostly reds, blues and greens, are seen a lot, as well as medium to light wood tones, and lots of shiny, reflective surfaces, as Blfenton mentions. That is, a very human environment is created indoors to counter the bleakness outside.

In slightly less far north, but still snowy places, a lot of the Winter clothes are dark neutrals. Lots of blacks and browns.

In the desert, where Summer is the bigger concern than Winter, there are also a lot of whites and dusty neutrals. They're cool, and also go with the natural scenery.

In the tropics, people use a lot of shots of bright colors, similar to the foliage one might see there. You might think that all those warm bright colors would also make people feel hot, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

In beach areas, people tend toward "fresh" colors. Pale clears and other colors you might find in shells.

Etc.

There's no reason why you couldn't have a blood red dining room at the beach, but people don't usually do that. We think of that as more of a Northern and city look.

Interesting thinking of this applying to kitchens...

Well, the Edsel Ford house has a '20s kitchen because it's a '20s house.

There are a lot of design elements that are related to the OTK but are not themselves the OTK.

White cabinets alone are not OTK. Those come in every flavor of kitchen imaginable, from OTK to mod to '50s turquoise or pink retro.

Vintage is not the OTK, though it's an inspiration for it. The OTK departs from vintage-ness in many ways. For example, it rarely uses original or repro vintage mechanicals like sinks or stoves. Eschewing the actual vintage sinks that would have hung from the wall in an old American kitchen, OTK prefers the faux vintage farmhouse sinks that never existed here until Shaw's recently imported the look from England. The OTK is always white, though after the mid-20s old kitchens were a lot more colorful. Perhaps most importantly, the OTK is a lot more upscale and polished than any real '20s-style kitchen would've been, and even more polished than modern reproduction kitchens that we've seen here.

I like many of these elements separately. None of them alone make up a OTK. The point of the OTK is that it's a kit. Always the same set of elements, no substitutions.

Plllog is exactly right - the kitchen, as part of the entire set, was created to reinforce Diane Keaton's character. I was watched the first 20 mins or so of the movie with the director's commentary on. It was really interesting and points out things you don't really realize - like the whole house is white and that is basically the only color she wears and she is always collecting white rocks on the beach (again and again), while Jack's character and house is the opposite - all dark. And he puts one dark rock in her jar of white rocks to represent himself.

Enduring, did you have any idea what you would start when you asked this question? You didn't get very many photo examples, but you got a whole lot more!

OT, I was in the Tile Shop this morning and they had new displays up. They had one bathroom in your lansdale tile, and I thought of you. It was stunning. I'm also so enamored with their Biltmore tile for a bathroom.

Marcolo:

[sound of thunderbolt]

I laughed out loud - and not in the emoticon-sense.

--------

We received a glossy brochure from a local realtor today and the first house in the line-up featured the ubiquitous white kitchen.

This is an amusing thread. :)

Thanks for the laughs.

This is the only kitchen on this thread I really like:

Not for the colors/styles, but for the way the kitchen is so completely integrated into the house at large, not a separate room stashed away somewhere. It's commonplace now for the kitchen to blend into the dining room, but here it's part of the living room.

It's what I'm planning for my next kitchen reno, albeit on a much smaller scale.

No subway tiles here.

And no subway to Tinos. Ferry only.

Lee676, I also love that kitchen and the way the high hats are in the high soffit and how the living room is part of the kitchen and the inset doors. I love the look of inset doors.

Leia_in_lalaland, What a peaceful monochromatic kitchen with that touch of color that makes it yours. Thanks for sharing.

Also the wood paneling on the ceiling! Especially since it matches the shape of the window and the fireplace.

Lee676, I agree that the wood paneling on the ceiling really is unique especially the shape along with that beautiful shaped window and fireplace. I love this kitchen. I really love looking at and admiring kitchens so much.

while I don't actually genuflect to the OTK I do like them a lot just not the ones that look like a white wedding cake with the OTT fake carvings, the ornate hood as homage to the stove goddess.

Love the liturgical spin, hee hee.

Please leave the Catholic Church out of your comments.
I know you are trying to be funny, but to me this is offensive.

No one has made any comments about the Catholic Church whatsoever. Please leave religion out of these forum discussions.

Tullamore, if I have done anything to offend you or anyone else I apologize (after all, I photoshopped Pope Benedict's mitre on to Christopher Peacock's head). The intent is not to belittle the Church. The intent is to poke fun at the deification of the kitchen.

I thought OTK meant O...
Sorry, wrong forum.

I now have to see this movie again after all these great pictures and information about why the kitchen was so neutral and white with just pops of color. I love all the kitchens posted and I am glad there is a mixture of wood floor and tile floors.

Came across this thread in my search for the meaning of "OTK"... great thread - learned a couple of new words too!

The kitchen in my last house was decidedly OTK - we've moved and I am working on the new kitchen which will likely not be OTK. I fell in love with a cerused oak door from Pennville that I am thinking of going with for my base cabinets - am in the process of figuring out the rest of the scheme so I don't end up leaving the house naked from the waist down.

Couldn't agree anymore with LWO's take on Mick DeGiulio - I love his new Multiere sink for Kallista

Here is a link that might be useful: Cerused Oak door - love the elimination of the rail below the top drawer

mamadadaoauge-I love the doors in your link.

mamadadapaige, I also love the concealed hinge inset doors with no center rail between the drawer and the door in your link. I also like the white oak on them. If you do buy them, please post pictures!

I have ALWAYS wanted white cupboards, wood floors, & light yellow walls (with my blue & white transferware). 14 years in our current house and next year I might (might) just finally get it. My inspiration will be Brickmanhouse (OTK, SGTG, etc). I am thinking about marble-look subway tiles with a gray counter. I'm a Canuck & no one that I know has a white kitchen, so it may be a regional thing. Everyone around here seems to go for dark (cherry, etc.) but I want light & bright. The other thing that everyone around here has - and that I don't want - is stainless steel with glasstop stoves. I want white appliances (& most likely coil burners with drip pans - talk about a rebel). But when the time comes, I'll be in here asking for your help & opinions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Brickmanhouse (Ikea cabinets)

[disrupter mode on]
Just stumbled on Diane Keaton's own kitchen, on the Architectural Digest website. Quite a contrast to the "Something's Got to Give" kitchen, although much of the adventure is in "pops of color" and is not built into the actual white cabineted room. Note the lighting--six matching fixtures near ceiling, lying on either side of the room divider, plus some small mates over range and sink.

{{!gwi}}

[returning you now to the regular programming on the White Kitchen Network]

Here is a link that might be useful: Diane Keaton kitchen is part of Celebrity Kitchen slideshow

If I am recalling correctly from an old AD, didn't Diane Keaton also have a somewhat disturbing framed vintage photo of buffalo being chased off (presumably by hungry indigenous people) / falling off a cliff hanging in her bedroom? Quite the contrast IRL to the character portrayed in the movie (at least from the description here, I've never seen it...)!

And then there's that.

BTW the quotation is bowdlerized. It goes, "Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

I want to go hang out in Angela Lansbury's kitchen.

So that's what OTK means (slaps forehead)! I think it's funny that this style of kitchen is so popular everywhere but where I live. I went shopping for a backsplash and everyone basically said,"Do you want tumbled marble or travertine?" When I said white subway tile they said,"Like bathroom tile?" Most people thought I was nuts when I told them about my creamy cabinets since everything is dark wood here and my combo of beadboard and subway tile backsplash. It's completely unheard of here!

Thank goodness for this thread! I'm about to start renovating our kitchen and I've begun by working my way through this forum, reading selected threads. I kept seeing the acronym OTK, which does not show up on the list of forum acronyms and absolutely could not figure out what it stood for.

I googled and let me tell you, One True Kitchen is NOT what shows up when you google OTK.

And I admit to loving the kitchen in Something's Got to Give, although we will not be copying it slavishly. I love color, too.

I think this thread should be lionized in the Page One thread as an example of how funny, smart and educational this weird, random, narrow list is. That's meant to be a massive compliment to the whole flock.

I always presumed, before even having any One True Kitchen depicted, that the term must be tongue-in-cheek. That is, meant ironically. Almost by definition it sounds like it's saying right in the label itself, that there is not, and never could be any such thing. So there's something circular and almost do-loop ironic about the term being used to refer to a kitchen that anyone actually *does* think of as the One and Only.

I'm no English-major, but I thought there was some existential discussion that was all but settled regarding whether text could ever be context-independent. That is, I thought everyone always was supposed to understand text in the context of their own time and place. That has to hold for something as literal as the physical space in one's kitchen, no?

So I think there's some discussion among movie theorists about what constitutes a timeless movie. More colloquially, what movies and why, age well. I think it's often pointed out that things like hair styles can actually fatally tether a movie to a certain era. Movies that are viewed 50 years later and still make sense all have these non-era-specific hairstyles. Conversely, some of the most era-specific films have really obviously hair-labelled styles. [and this goes for "period" films as well, BTW].

I've often thought about that film-truism when pondering what constitutes a "timeless kitchen. I've wondered what the hair-analog to a timeless kitchen is. I won't even hazard a guess to that; I'm sure most of the rest of you would come up with better examples than I. Well ... OK, maybe I will: I toss onto the table the hypothesis that "accessories" are the analog to hairstyle as a label to time/place. And I would further postulate that the backsplash in a kitchen is essentially an accessory.

So ... this is sort of a design-around-this challenge for the brain. Don't ream me if this thought is stupid, I haven't really even aired it for very long. I mean it mostly as a toss-out challenge to be elaborated on: what elements, specifically, in a kitchen, do wind up being the pieces that date the kitchen? (this is the converse of the question: what constitutes the OTK -- and it sort of presumes that there is no such thing).

Maybe OTK deserves it's own forum so we don't have to weed through posts so much.

Your points about period movies and hairstyles are brilliant. Look at Laurence Olivier in "Henry IV." I'm sure at the time he seemed all authentically medieval. Today he looks like Katy Perry.

When people try to do classic today they subconsciously update. They just want to make sure the hairstyle has a nice "shape." Or it looks "flattering." Translation: They just imprinted it with a tell that will mark its time period forever. It is very difficult, if not impossible, not to do this, because it's subconscious. It's about what looks good to you now, which is shaped by current trends and fashions even if you don't know it.

Some of the tells:

thickness of countertop
and to some extent, its edgetrimmed out in wood = '80s; enough ogees for Liberace's swimming pool = late '90s/early 2000's

countertop finish
The haute Amerituscan high gloss gave way to the honed glow of old money. Round and round we go.
type of door hinge
using those huge bulky European hinges -- originally intended for modular unframed cabinetry -- on American wooden framed cabs is an odd affectation only seen in the past decade or so, but I'm sure many will decry me for not calling them "timeless".
light fixtures
a crystal chandelier in a kitchen? really?
countertop material yes, they've been using marble in Italy for centuries. No, they've only been using it in the USA since August 16, 2002.
cabinet finish itself, independent of material or color lacquer in the 70's and 80's was shiny, full stop. Lacquer now tends to be satin. Paint is now sprayed by robot and baked on in the factories, which gives it an industrial seamless smoothness that is already prompting a brushstroke backlash and the move to hand-applied milk paints.
toekicks
Got 'em? Not? Finished in the same wood /material as the cabinets, or painted black to vanish? Does the solid flooring curl up the kick to meet the cabinets?
backsplash
'nuff said.

I have a screamy 10-week-old, a 19-month-old that we refer to as the "Tiny Tornado" and a five-year-old who's discovered that the secret to her universe is talking.all.the.time. I just spent my precious daily 20 minutes of free time reading this thread. I am not found regretting.

"I just spent my precious daily 20 minutes of free time reading this thread. I am not found regretting."

ROFL.

Alabamamommy, I have only one soon-to-be-three-year-old (and a full-time job) and I spent at least 30 minutes of my (nevertheless) precious time reading this thread (b/c I also clicked on some, though not all, links) and I am not found regretting either - not yet, at least. LOL

Omg! Fun to see this thread. I always tried to resist the power of the OTK!.

The most timeless thing about this thread will always be marcolo's 10 commandments. Still funny.

It's also interesting to see how this thread has aged, a bit. And will be interesting to see it become an anachronism as that particular trend is left further and further behind.

Cook's Kitchen, you get 2nd place to marcolo, BTW. Alas, indeed.

I had looked for the cartoon about 500 still frames of Joe Biden eating a sandwich and failed to find it. I need to bookmark this!

There's still an OTK, it's just shifted a bit. More gray, fewer inset cabinets, and more marble-look quartz. Subways still seem to be the thing.

I miss Marcolo, too.

Well, since someone has again revived this classic thread, I feel the need to update a post of mine within it. [Go look above for it if you are interested.] This is now the link to Diane Keaton's former colorful kitchen (now under new management). I couldn't find the original article, which I think was in Arch. Digest but this link brings you to one of those exploitive compendiums to which the Internet is wont::

https://www.bestonlinecabinets.com/blog/top-5-crazy-celebrity-kitchens-you-wont-believe/

And this is the link to the subsequent rehab of the kitchen, which OTK'd part of the space but retained her jolly tiles here and throughout the house, creating a fearless and fabulously quirky or absolutely tasteless conglomeration, depending on your point of view:https://www.housebeautiful.com/design-inspiration/house-tours/a31136302/madeleine-stuart-los-angeles-home-tour/

Better download these colorful photos, just in case the original images disappear even more completely from the Net. Imagine pulling up that original kitchen photo on a gloomy Nov. or Jan. day in the Rust Belt for a bit of mental R&R,. OTK doesn't cut it when you are already sad, sad, sad.

Revision...sorry I flubbed up by duplicating the two URL citations above. I have fixed the second one. [Thanks for heads-up, Holly!]

The second link is the same as the first, @formerlyflorantha?

While I do like color in a kitchen, I have to say, Keaton's original made my retinas bleed.

florantha, good to see you posting again. Here's a link to Keaton's new home:

https://www.today.com/home/diane-keaton-says-her-incredible-new-home-dream-see-inside-t119473

Mama, Good to see you also. That kitchen in her newest house looks like it's migrating toward the OTK, but with big industrial style light fixtures, to fill those high ceilings. Not a crayon-box color in sight, yes?

Here's another version of that house and its story, which I was writing when Mama Goose posted her URL...https://www.estliving.com/the-brick-home-of-diane-keaton/

"Here's a recent home of Keaton (yes, another one). Look at the kitchen. Paint bricks white and what do you get? _Faux subway tiles_. And...dig those honkin' big pendants! The skylights, the pendants, the beams, the painted brick. Hmm. How reminiscent of ... what, a factory floor? A city loft in an old building? And it was designed from scratch! How true is this kitchen, folks? And more importantly, would you enjoy this space more than the tiled Spanish one?"

Here's the context for that tiled kitchen peninsula...the original Keaton Kitchen Architectural Digest article, I think...2004 Dec. Architectural Digest....

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/diane-keaton-bel-air-home-slideshow

Look hard at the kitchen, folks. Delete the tiles and the vintage tablewear. What do you see in that kitchen? I'll give you a hint...read the early postings on this thread.

___

Try this for some more Keaton...

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/diane-keaton-home-slideshow

Is this the same house? No actual kitchen shown, but this looks like a cousin in house design if not the one I was looking for. Note the quotation around the top of library walls. Fam. room has groups of single-colored vintage tableware just as were shown in Architectural Digest, but they look different here, yes? Hope your eyes don't bleed here, Holly. Photo is calculated to be more subtle, I suppose, but it might be same stuff displayed differently. And red ceramics are not shown, at least not in photo.

___

On another note, I just happened to be in Red Wing, Minn. today. In an antiques shop, they had a number of Red Wing Pottery pieces to look at up close. They still give me some good feelings, despite all the years since my extended family set table with them. Keaton shows us that homeowners can blend rough beams, fave sayings, vintage plates, &c with the OTK. This is one true thing.

Ha!

It's been ten years and two whole old house renovations later, but I recall the good times of this forum and this thread. :) Good to see some of the same familiar names hanging around occasionally. Am finally planning for the kitchen in our "new" old historic house, and remembered this forum from GardenWeb days. It's a bit disconcerting to still encounter some of my old kitchen photos online from time to time (DIY copper countertops, rehabbed OKM stove, yellow subway tile, etc, in case anyone remembers).

Looking forward to seeing all the newfangled innovations and of course the continued goring of old sacred cows!

Off topic to Circus Peanut, Cawaps, Marcolo, MamaGoose, and other of the aging Garden Web Kitchen Forum crowd, sure hope you and your cooking spaces are aging well. The kitchen addition at my place has served my hubby and me with functionality and practicality these ten years into its life. (I was the iconoclast who didn't believe that the kitchen should be considered the center of the house and that other rooms deserved more attention and spending.) I think the best thing about the postings of the time was the willingness to accept seemingly contradictory info (new ideas vs customary practice, most often) and just think about them. One more really good thing was the acceptance of truly personal restrictions on designs, whether that was taste or budget or dogs or old infrastructure or whatever. Newbies were taken by the hand and referred to some great posts on basic good sense design principles. Then, the opinions were allowed to be unleashed. Think of the accumulation of kindness to strangers that the forum represented!