Wow. I have almost too many negatives to feel good posting....but since I assume they are for yout designer/architect I'll go ahead and beg forgiveness now.

First of all, I have to ask....it's a 100k kitchen remodel....no new stove or dishwasher? It seems like these very necessary issues should be included, especially as you want to focus on ventilation, which needs to be sized for the stove you put in as well as your future stove since you want a bigger one.

The wall oven by the pantry door is nuts...an oven with a wall cozied up to it is as well. You can not properly take food out and you run risk of that door bumping you or worse, being opened. I am nit sure if code even allows an oven opening in a doorway...I know I fired the designer who proposed it to us.

A four foot isle between your prep sink and the stove is too big. It should be closer to the stove or turned the other direction on the end of the island if it's intent is to be used for salad etc. Putting it on the end you explained with the back to the stove puts a worker in the radius of the pantry door.

A desk by the sink is asking for trouble. Someone sitting at it will impact the cooks movements to the fridge and it's likely to get wet on occasion, if not piled with dishes during a party. It's a very bad location for both reasons.

It appears to me that the fridge is literally in the doorway of the dining room. Again, doors opening into doorways is a huge no no. I actually hate to think a professional would put their name on this plan....it will function terribly, force your diners to look at a door regularly and look terribly unbalanced when you have plenty of room for it to flow much better. If there is a wall om it's side, than you have a fridge tucked up against a wall...which is a nightmare for both use and cleaning.

The cabinets seem to be boring at best as far as layout, with a very unbalanced wall full of them, then they turn the corner and disappear...that's going to be a very heavy look.

Your laundry room....the washer and dryer are too far away. They need to be next to each oyher or close on the same wall or kitty corner so you don't have to pull out a load and walk with it to the dryer. I also see no where to fold laundry.

I'm sorry to beat this up so badly but really, you are spending too much money to get a plan this badly designed. I'd go back to the drawing board and frankly....nit with the same designer if I was you.

Thank you for raising some good points.

I agree that the wall oven and pantry door placement is not the best. And I also see your point regarding the fridge being in the doorway to the dining room. Here was the thinking behind those decisions. The height of the wall oven cabinet seemed to dictate that it be at the end of a run of cabinets. The fridge location makes it easily accessible by the kids without them having to walk through the work area. I guess I was also thinking that the fridge being a built-in would somewhat mitigate it's closeness to the dining area.

Question: would a pocket door to the pantry be an improvement? Or do you still see too much of a conflict with the oven?

Re the cabinets - I haven't decided on the upper cabinet layout yet - I would love some specific suggestions.

The desk area will definitely NOT be by the sink. I had already planned to move it next to the wall oven. Please see the link below for an example of the desk area I envision - calling it a desk is really an overstatement - it would be more of a place to perch and type. (This link is to the blog of someone who posts here but I can't remember her user name.)

Just curious, If the footprint of the kitchen/pantry/powder room area was a blank slate (which it is at this point) how would you design a kitchen within that space? I know that's a broad and time-consuming question to answer but even just a couple of specific suggestions would be appreciated.

Re not replacing the range and dishwasher. They're both in good condition and barely 6 years old. I just can't justify replacing them yet. They're both stainless and the range is a professional style. Anything I would pick out would essentially look the same. As long as I plan ahead in terms of cabinetry and ventilation, I don't see a huge problem.

And yes, 100k is a huge amount of money but it includes more than just a kitchen renovation. We're adding square footage, renovating 2 other rooms and adding a 1/2 bath.

But I hear ya - for that kind of money it does seem like the kitchen should come with it's own chef.

Here is a link that might be useful: Inspiration Kitchen

I agree with igloochic, the oven is in a terrible position if you ask me. Even if you were to install a pocket door it would still create a conflict for usable space. I would say that is number one issue for me. And let's face it, kids love to make easy microwavable frozen things, it doesn't flow well for them to be walking from one corner to the other. (Freezer to microwave)

I also agree about the fridge. At the moment it is too far removed, and even if you do get a built in it will just stick out being in that area.

Try a new layout if you're just working from nothing, can't hurt to get a second design done by someone else. I feel like if you installed this kitchen you probably wouldn't have the wow factor, the design as it stands seems too standardized, and really doesn't reflect how a kitchen is used. Don't jump into the project for 100k if you're not totally happy! I revised my layout with my designer afew times so it is tailored to how I actually use my kitchen.

I'm not the best designer myself but maybe a corner edge 2+2 island makes more sense, even my 9 foot long island as it stands is going to be tight with 3 chairs in my opinion 8 feet is simply not enough for 4 chairs comfortably...figure about 20 inches per chair minimum. Plus having that option would allow some variation of the space used, instead of everyone just looking at the range wall, it'll feel more comfortable in a different configuration.

Good luck :) Just remember if you're planning to stay in the house, you've got one really good chance to get exactly what you want.

Okay, the inspiration pictures make a lot more sense of your design.

Igloochic makes some good points, but the placement of the desk is a concern, since you say you're moving the prep sink to the other end of the island...you will be across from the sink, when you're sitting at your little desk.

While your inspiration kitchen has the sink offset, with the windows, is that going to bother you? Would you rather center the sink, maybe with three windows? Are you going to have the exposed timbers, as in your inspiration kitchen?

Have you thought about turning your island? You have 16'8" of space, so 2' for the stove counter, 3'6" for walkways on either side...would leave you 7'8".

I would think about a more square island, with maybe stools on two sides. Three on one side and one on the other...maybe even two?

As for the pantry, a pocket door is a good idea, but I would move the oven/microwave closer to the stove (which I moved down slightly) and put in a broom closet.

On the wall to the powder room, I would put the prep sink here, since it would give you a nice snack area, for the kids. Couldn't you use the laptop, at the island? I think it might make more sense. If not, you could put the desk, on the wall to the powder room and keep the prep sink on the island.

Here's my very rough scan, but hopefully you get the idea. Just some possibilites, so if there's anything you like, I hope this helps :)

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Sorry about the awful scan, but you get the idea :)

One more thing, if the island was wired for the computer, the kids could use it, as they get older.

Also, if you like the idea of a snack center, you could put a small beverage center/undercounter fridge in, next to the prep sink (this could always be added later). With the microwave so close, it would be a great way for the kids (as they get older) or other people to help in the kitchen, without getting in your way :)

Jgopp and Lavender lass - Thank you both so much. I REALLY like your ideas. Time to head back to the designer....

The snack area with the sink makes so much sense. In my mind (what's left of it after 4 kids) the prep sink on the island was as much (or more) for the kids than for prepping anyway. And I'd already been wondering if reorienting the island would make better use of the space.

Perhaps I could move the sink and dw down a bit to so that the fridge could be moved more into the kitchen and out of the dining room doorway. Having the sink uncentered under the windows would not bother me if need be.

The inspiration kitchen is so light and airy with the raised ceilings and exposed beams. Unfortunately, we have roof constraints that will limit us to 8 ft. ceilings. To make up for the lack of height we're looking into installing a ridgeline skylight.

As for using my computer on the island - yes that is an option. I would prefer an area all my own but if it doesn't work out I can live with it.

Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to respond - I really appreciate it.

I like things to be fairly linear, so I would put the wall back in, between the kitchen and dining room (to match the other side) and move the fridge a little closer to the sink. With the desk gone, you'd stil have plenty of room...and I think it would match up better, with your other walls in the dining room.

Plus, a nice stainless steel fridge would look great in your space. I don't think you need the expense of a sub-zero...which would leave you more money...possibly for an undercounter fridge in the snack area?

If you really want your own desk space, you could move the oven/microwave down towards the stove a bit more...and put your desk, where I put the broom closet. It's a little tight, between the pantry and oven, but you could have 30" there...and leave plenty of room for the oven to open, with out being too close to the island. This might work better, with a pocket door to the pantry.

I'm glad you like the snack center :)

I'm with you on the linear thing. To be honest, the fact that the two walls between the kitchen and the dining room didn't match each other bothered me far more than the fridge intruding on the dining room.

The snack center is making me very happy right now.

That snack center is a good idea. I agree that maybe having a small fridge in that area may be helpful. But I was also thinking you could also put a fridge in the center island instead. It would be useful for storing wine or beer for entertaining guests at the island. This way people wouldn't have to get up or you wouldn't have to move away from cooking to offer your guests a beverage. Just something to think about. They do sell locking undercounter fridges so the little ones don't accidentally get into your finest dom. Just hang the key up in a high enough cabinet.

If you really want a computer or desk working space, maybe skip the "snack bar" and put in a shorter desk there with cabinets for storage of whatever you want. I would probably avoid putting the desk in an area where people might be tempted to put cooking items.

Kelly- I'm hoping that someone with far better software, will do a new plan for you. There are so many talented people, on the forum :)

If you do put the desk area, between the oven/microwave and the pantry...it would give you a great place to store phone books, calendar, etc...maybe even a few cookbooks. It shouldn't be too much of a conflict with the pantry (especially if you use a pocket door) since you won't be using the desk and getting into the pantry at the same time.

If you start having more help in the kitchen (as the kids get older) I would plan to put the stool closer to the oven, and maybe have some drawer, or even file storage, on the right, near the pantry wall. Since you're the main cook, I don't think the far side of the oven will be very convenient for placing hot food. Between the oven and cooktop, or pivoting around to the island, would probably be more popular choices.

Your kitchen is going to be beautiful! I really like your inspirations photos :)

How about something like this?

Lavender Lass - I wish I knew how to draw up my own plan. I use a Mac and tried to learn Google Sketch-Up (supposedly one of the better options for the Mac) but I'll have to say that program kicked my butt. Maybe I need to give it another shot....

The desk between the oven/mw and pantry is an attractive idea. I'll probably spend some time sketching that out on paper to get a better feel for it. I would love some cookbook storage/shelves. And a file drawer in the kitchen would be awesome.

Thanks again for taking the time to offer up some good suggestions. If I come up with any decent drawings I'll be sure to post them to get more feedback.

Kelly

Homeagain - thank you!

If the refrigerator can be moved further into the kitchen (as homeagain drew so well) the spot labeled "sub zero" in the original plan could work well for a hutch-style cabinet for dishes, perhaps built with some element that echoes the antique buffet in the dining room, to make the room transition less abrupt.

The dishwasher could be scooched over next to the hutch for easy unloading. The sink could face the middle two windows. To the right of the sink you'd have part of your prep area pleasantly open in front of the last window, instead of being constricted by uppers.

Putting the fridge that far away from the main sink (with the island between them) is a bit of a concern, since Kelly is the main cook.

I think keeping the fridge in the original location (maybe just moved over a few inches, in order to put the wall in, might be the best use of the work triangle.

Here's one more attempt at scanning, with the sink in its orginal location (since it matches your inspiration picture, the snack center and the desk, with the pantry pocket door. I also replaced the subzero with a regular fridge and added the undercounter fridge, in the snack area.

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It's going to be beautiful! Can't wait to see your final product.

What about something like this. I put two options for the ovens.

Thank you all so much - you have no idea how much I appreciate everyone's input. Your drawings will be so helpful when I meet with the designer again.

And as things progress I'm sure I'll have many more questions...

I also want to add my 2 cents. Right now you are think about a household with 2 adults and 4 kids. I recommend that you design the space for 6 adults.

We did our remodel when our kids were about the age of yours. Then all of a sudden they grew!

And their stuff grew!

I would place a lot of thought into planning where 6 phone chargers, sets of car keys, backpacks, soccer gear, books, laptop chargers, purses, and sunglasses will end up.

We did 2 drawers by our back entry...should have done 1 drawer for everyone. We had 2 sets of outlets...should have done a row of plugs for all those chargers. We have our wireless printer in our pantry (I love that) So add plugs there for things like printers, handi vacs, etc.

Also, you are (rightly so) concerned about keeping the kids out of your work triangle. But put some serious thought into how they can do things themselves successfully.

Where will the peanut butter, jelly, apples, ziplock bags, and knives be? Will they be able to pack their lunch in a few steps, or will it be chaos? What about where is the cereal, milk, spoons, and bowls? Same idea. At the age your kids are now, they are able to do these things, but not if they can't safely reach what they need.

Last aesthetic thought....consider what your view into the kitchen will be when seated at the table in the dining room. Right now it seems like an afterthought. I think that would be something that should be considered, so you are happy with what you see.

Wow, Julie makes some really good points! If you can afford to lose the storage, I like the windows on each side of the cooktop, in houseful's plan. You might want to make some kind of focal point, with your backsplash, too.

One thing I really like about houseful's plan, is the possibility of putting the fridge close to the pantry (and still close to the stove) and having the microwave/oven near the snack area.

In this plan, I would move the desk to the alternate oven/microwave location (by the dining room) and have a little office space out of the traffic pattern (with the dining room wall back in place). It would give you a great place to tuck in a few cookbooks and maybe your file drawer, without being squished in between the oven and the pantry...more like your inspiration picture :)

This puts your main work area on the back wall, out of the way of visitors at the island, and gives you a clean up area close to the dining room. People can be loading the dishwasher(s) without being in your cooking area. With six people, have you ever thought of two dishwashers, on either side of the main sink?

Here's your inspiration picture of the desk area...and a picture that I really like (although it's not my taste at all). I guess it's all the shiny! LOL It does show a nice fridge/cooktop wall, with a great backsplash :)

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Sorry I disappeared for a few days. I took some time and learned a kitchen design program - I'm no good if I can't see something in perspective.

I took many of your ideas and drew them out. Below is a representation of the design I liked the best. Bear in mind that this program is a cut down version that came as a bonus in a book so what I could illustrate was limited. Like there was no option for a prep-sized sink or a built-in microwave (at least none that I could find). Also, there will be a large skylight above the island, which again was not a rendering option in the program. And of course, cabinet details have yet to be decided on.

All of this to say that the drawing is merely an attempt to get a general idea of what the kitchen might look like. My measurements weren't exact so the designer is working on a "real" drawing right now. I'm sure as the things progress, the plan will go through several more iterations, but I don't expect it to vary too much from this.

Many thanks for all the suggestions and criticisms. Juliekcmo - you made some good points about planning ahead for when the kids are a bit older.

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Nice plan! I like your island :)

Where are you planning on putting your desk?

Sadly, I think the snack center (on the right) may be sacrificed to the desk. As much as I like the snack center idea I finally had to admit that a desk area and some file drawers were probably a better use of space. (My software didn't have a picture of a desk so I just put a cabinet in as a place holder in the picture.)

You know, I think the desk area there is a great idea. You could have a file drawer or two, maybe some shelves for cookbooks, a neat organizer for your bills, phone book, calendar, etc. It might also be a good place to tuck in a small trash area and/or paper shredder (for all that junk mail) LOL

You have such a great island planned and that's where the kids will probably be putting together snacks, anyway. It's very convenient, right between the pantry and the fridge :)

Your appliance layout is quite similar to mine.
We put the pullout for the cereal boxes between the fridge and the stove.
Above the cereal pullout is the bread drawer.

This way kids can pour milk into the bowl right there on the counter, and put it back in the fridge.

Same idea with fixing their pb&j and getting the jelly back in the fridge. I keep the ziplock sandwich bags in the bread drawer too.