The NKBA has their own site which explains needed education and certification requirements. Do any of your local colleges offer design or interiors courses?

I am familiar with Chief Architect and AutoCAD softwares, but haven't heard the term '2020,' so can't help there.

My sister walked into a cabinet shop and after talking to the owners about plans for her kitchen was offered a job...They said they'd train her to be a KD. I don't know how good that training would be, or where it would lead, since she decided not to change jobs right then. Our state doesn't require certification or licensing for interior designers, so you might check for that in California.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA education page

rhome410: Wow, your sister is so lucky. I keep thinking one of the KDs I've consulted with will offer me a job when they realize the breath of knowledge I have. Hopefully tomorrow I will finalize our contract for our office and want to ask them about job possibilities. I am working with the owner--a husband/wife custom shop and she seems quite busy so perhaps she can use more help. I don't want to jeopordize my project though so figured I'd ask after we put in the cabinet order. If we go custom in the office, then I will have personal experience now with modular, custom, plus the HD/Lowes/OSH closet organizer solutions which we've used over the past 10+ years.

Thanks for the suggestion of looking at the NKBA website. When I was shopping around for cabinets I noticed many KDs use a SW application called 20/20--at least for many modular cabinets, like Dynasty/Omega which we put in our kitchen and bath. More recently Lowes was using it when I consulted with them about my office. I always ask what SW application they are using as I am interested in the application of technology in design--back to my CS days! The custom cabinet maker we are working with for our office has software which is customized for their shop so perhaps 20/20 is not as standarized as I am thinking. I also worked briefly with a designer from one of the closet stores before we decided to go custom and they had yet another application. I do have a copy of Chief Architect that I've fiddled around with a bit when working on our remodel, but would not say I am proficient in it.

I'm hoping one of the KDs who frequent this forum will chime in. I am in a very fortunate position I don't need a job right now as DH has a good/stable job, but for so many reasons I feel it is time for me to begin to get back in the work force. If I do this, I want to do this well and not make stupid mistakes like so many KDs do that we read about here on this board, though at the same time reading of some of the stupid mistakes makes me think I could do better.

Valinsv,

I stumbled into my kitchen designer job by accident also.
I was looking for cabinets and had an appointment with a local small company. I had my drawings that I had obsessed on for a few years. I had studied spec books of different companies and had more general knowledge of design than the average customer. I went in and they hired me on the spot.

I learned the basics of the 2020 program in a few hours...although I am not a seasoned pro, I still have more to learn.

At the moment in our area, the business is very very slow. Each time we get a customer it is like a rollercoaster ride on whether they are going to buy from us or not...I have 2 kitchens sold under my belt in 5 months. I have designed about 6.

The best part of my job is the perks. I paid cost for my cabinets. I am getting a great deal on my soapstone and my boss installed my cabs for free! So although I haven't made much money, I have gained quite a bit in freebies!

I think it would be great to take a kitchen design course at your local college. Try to wrangle a spec book and read it from cover to cover 10x. This website is the most valuable tool.

shanny75: So, how did you get hired? Did you ask for a job or they just offerred? I was wondering how to bring up the conversation with the custom shop I am working with. I was thining of asking after we agree on the contact. Is tomorrow too soon? She said that fall is their busiest season. When we met last week she kept getting intrupted by customers picking out hardware (trivial) and once she had to tell her front desk gal, she could handle something herself.

Thank you for telling it like it is. In our area, remodels seem to still be going pretty strong, though I am sure everyone is scrambing around for the best deal--as I am myself having spoke to 5 different people recently about my office before zeroing in on whom we want to work with. Unfortunately, our remodel is just about done (except for our office) so don't imagine I'll make too much use of the perks, but I mostly want a job I will enjoy. I made the mistake years ago going into a career I did not truely like because it was where the money is and then after I had kids I decided to become a full time mom. Now going back, I am thinking less about the money and more about what I am interested in. Right now the economy is poor and I am sure many fields are suffering as a result, but long term, we know the economy will rebound. Which is why I was thinking in the interim period I could focus on education/training. If ever our financial situation were to change and I needed a larger income, I figure if this career path did not provide it, then I would at least have reentered the working world and have that experience under my belt.

I did check on the NKBA website and there are several online courses that start on Oct. 20th. I was wondering if these are more targeted than what I could find through my local community college, though I will call them up as well.

The courses I am thinking of signing up for would be:

Presentation Standards
Basic Kitchen & Bath Design
Construction & Mechanical Systems
Basic 20/20 Design

I figure based on my experience here plus my home remodel, I know a good bit of what is contained in these courses, but this would fill in the gaps and would put me on the road towards certification. They would be 8 weeks long, so perhaps I could do the online courses and start active job searching in Jan--or perhaps even sooner? If I do this, I would like to tackle it as a professional and work with either a reputable custom shop or mid plus range cabinet line--really something I would put in my own home.

First of all, I'm glad that you're interested enough in the process to consider a career in design. It IS a wonderful field to be involved in.

But....and here's the truth. Now is NOT a good time to get involved in becoming a designer. Most companies are laying off folks or trying to find ways to tighten their belts instead of adding to their payrolls. The existing personell are just working harder and longer if they need to rather than hiring any new folks.

If you want to go ahead anyway, your best bet it to take a couple of design courses at a local college and see if you really do have a flair for all of the complexities involved. And, get a job somewhere in a retail customer service department where you are dealing with demanding upset customers on a regular basis. ;*) Some people cannot hand that aspect of the job or handle it poorly. It'd be better to know that on the front end before you invest money in an education! Being a KD from day to day is more about your ability to endure mind numbing paperwork and attention to the minituia of math details than it is doing exciting design work. And, if you do get a challenging kitchen, about 75% of the time, the customer isn't interested in you being all that creative to make their space better. THey're interested in the bottom line and basically reproducing what exists in a different color---and then shopping your design all over town for $20 cheaper price.

Sorry, I'm not having a great day at work today.

How did I get hired? I basically told them that he had my dream job, just kinda making conversation, not really thinkin they were hiring. It was just meant to be I guess.
It is vey tough...not so much the design, but the people. There are so many personality quirks to deal with. Luckily my 1st kitchen went without a hitch, the 2nd one is being installed this week...we will see!

Everything Live wire said is spot on!

live_wire_oak: Thanks for the unvarnished truth. Reality is though, I'm going to face the difficulties of finding a job in recession times wherever I try--and it won't be easy not having a paying job for past 12-years (Ouch!). My home remodel was my "job" for the past two years (which I learned so much in the process). I probably was that customer from h*ll at times because I am very picky/detail oriented and have read enough TKO posts here to well imagine what a KD deals with on the other side. You bring up a good point about customers using you for design and taking their business elsewhere. Just curious, is the compensation heavily based on commissions or is there some base salary as well? What type of hours are your expected to work and is there any flexibility in those hours? Can you take work home with you or are you expected to do all your work there?

shanny75: Hmm... Interesting way to bring it up without being direct. And, as you say, if it is meant to be then it will happen. I'd be happy to start out in an admin capacity and see where it goes.

Now is really a tough time in this industry, many companies are closing or just barely staying afloat. I would look at custom cabinet shops. Places that are small and do not have as much payroll obligations. Approach them with how you can increase their business. Now is a good time to gain experience, especially hands on, if you can spend the down time in the shop and on the installs, then you can get a better sense of how things works quickly. Experience can teach you more than courses in a quicker time, but education is good as well. If you are willing to do sales on commission only and then work on ordering and training on an hourly basis, then I am sure you could find work. Personally I would not hire anyone who is not hungry enough to earn the money. You need a resume, goals, and like I said a plan on how are you going to make them MONEY! I make salary for my shop work and commission for my sales, I do most of my sales at night, and a majority of my major design work on weekends. I do pricing in the office during the day. Sounds like fun, I know, but these are lean times.

I guess my experience sorta dovetails with what mcr1 wrote: during / after our extensive remodel (inc. the kitchen) both the GC and the cabinetmaker (independently) approached me about doing design work with them. I was immensely flattered (of course!), but it wasn't just my exceptional aesthetic which referred me: it's also that I'm really connected in our local upper-middle / upper class circles. All you stay-at-home parents will understand: I'm a mom with young children! I'm in mothers' clubs, active with the nursery schools, lots of mommie-and-me classes, etc. We chat meaninglessly (which, for stay-at-home parents of small children can prove incredibly meaningful) and lots of folks come to my home to play ....

I referred a number of potential clients to each the GC and cabinetmaker; they appreciated that and saw that (my referring people), coupled with my knowledge / interest / willingness, as a potential plus to them and their individual businesses.

But it's not a good fit for me right now, and it breaks my heart! I would love to be able to pursue this, both because it interests me and also because I'd love a little pocket money! But Li'l Bit and I are still each other's best friend / constant companion, and I'm unwilling to upset his nap schedule any more than necessary. I'm also unwilling to hire a babysitter: I want to be his full-time caregiver.

So I wonder if you could approach it that way, how well-connected you are, how much business you could bring in ... or if you could even start by letting your circle(s) know that you are doing freelance design work, and see where that takes you.

If you haven't, have professional photos taken of the spaces you've redone (your kitchen, etc.). Right now that's your calling card: use it.

Good luck!

I've been offered a few jobs in design since I started my remodel. Most are in high end kitchen firms, one in appliances and another in stone (which I couldn't do because I'd spend my salary and more if I worked in a slab yard day and night..even if it was just to design LOL). I have to say, that I'm sure I was asked for a couple of reasons...the first hopefully being that I'm a good designer and it shows, but the second, which is probably the bigger issue, is that I "know" people, and we entertain high rollers on a regular basis. Most of this stuff is done word of mouth (who'd you use for the kitchen, bath, stone, tile, blah blah). And of course if you are trying to make a living in the business, hiring people who "know" the people who can pay your bills is a good idea.

So, if you do have good connections to folks who can still afford to spend money on their homes, use that connection as RM says above. That is honestly probably more important than actually knowing what you're doing (at least thats my impression after seeing some pretty bad KD's at work here)

20/20 is a very expensive program, tens of thousands, so it's tough to just run out and pick it up, but if you can master chief archtecht, you'll be legs ahead...so you might consider that investment first.

While I'd never likely work for someone, I would enjoy learning more about KDing, so those NKBA classes sound kind of fun :) And if you can learn 20/20 on some starter version, verses hoping to buy your own (most of the major cabinet lines use it) that's a great benefit to online classes!

This is 2020 and they do have a free internet version you can play with and internet based training you can take (no fee schedule posted!).

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.2020technologies.com/

mcr1: I appreciate the more detailed description of all that your job entails. The lean times is one of those factors waking me up to the fact I need to get back to work--in some sort of capacity.

rmkitchen: You've expressed my feelings that I had why I became a stay-at-home mom in the first place (and nothing can ever take away from the earlier years). I guess there is never an ideal time to go back to work... I keep waiting for it, but have finally realized it's never going to come and I want to set a good example for my daughters not only the value of motherhood, but that women are intelligent and can be successful in the workplace as well. I hope they do a better job than I've done combining work and motherhood. As far as referrals, we've done a few and used a few. It's the best way to go.

igloochic: I was wondering how much 20/20 costs and figured it was not cheap. That option doesn't really make sense. I assume then most people must learn it on the job? I havent seen any local classes and you'd think in Silicon Valley CA they'd have a class.

bmorepanic: Thanks for the link to the free internet version.

DH and I had a long talk tonight and he suggests that I should not make any decisions for a month or enroll in any classes just yet, but use this time as an information gathering period and to talk to as many people as I can in various businesses to better find out what I want to do and what type of skills they are looking for. So if anyone else has any other suggestions of avenues I can futher investigate I am totally open.

not everyone uses 20/20. We use KCDW, many cabinetmakers use this program as it is more cabinetmaker oriented and very easy to use. I think if you have computer skills you can pick up any of these programs fairly easily. The basics are usually very simple, it is tricking the program to do stuff it doesn't want to do that gets more complicated. That said if you spend all this time and money on one program and then apply and find out they use something else, it could be wasted time. Find out what most of your local companies are using first.

valinsv: I'd recommend being a little cautious about discussing them giving you a job early on. It changes the dynamics of the relationship. Right now, you are the customer and they are working for you.

Several years ago, I got offered a part-time job to work for a real estate agent the first day that she came to my house for our listing appointment. I accepted (and subsequently worked for her for almost 3 years), but from then on our roles and the power dynamics changed. She wasn't strictly working for me, I was also getting ready to work for her. It wasn't awful, but in hindsight I wish that I had kept the two transactions completely separate...that we hadn't even discussed my job options until the end of the house sale.

Not that I'm a fan of the home center's kitchen departments, but it would be a great place to test the waters. They use 20/20. Plus you would get lots of computer and manufacturer training there. Make a plan to work there for at least 6 months. If you still like it, then send out your resumes to the local dealers.

I honestly don't think that you could start out as an independant designer without more kitchen design and installation experience. And don't even consider buying 20/20 on your own. That would be cost prohibitive.

Kitchen design is a wonderful career. I've been doing it for 23 years. But Livewire makes some VERY valid points. You can be a great designer, yet not make it in the KD world. Here's a list of traits/skills I personally think one needs to be a KD. Livewire, please add to the list if you think of any more:

1. creative

2. problem solver..."think outside the box"

3. be able to visualize 3D space

4. multi-tasking!!!!

5. good memory (product knowledge and technical (construction) knowledge)

6. Tough skin (you can't take things personally. You will lose jobs....even ones that you worked your tail off on!! Ones where the customers TOLD you that they were ordering from you...only to go with another company. You WILL get used...and you will have to learn from that. You have to be able to 'let it go'.) You'll also need tough skin if a customer yells at you for something. Stay calm. A few clients will lose their temper during your career, but I imagine in my thought that: they had a tough day....or maybe their mom is in the hospital....etc.

7. Detail oriented. There are so many things to measure and to consider, to ask....and to research! What's the wall height? The window trim width? Are the walls square? Is the customer using frameless or inset? How will changing that alter the design? Which cabinet line are they going with? If I Have to change over the design from brand A to brand B, how will that change the design? How much room for crown? How should I design the crown? The list can go on and on.....

8. Must be patient. It's like having kids...you never know what you're gonna get....with your customers. Most people are great to work with but you will get: nervous-nellies, nit-pickers, fighting couples, arrogant engineers, indecisive people....etc. You can't take things personally.

9. Listening skills: Don't think that you know it all (be humble). Even if your design is the absolute best for their room....it's still their room. And if they want this or that....even after explaining the brilliance of your design...so be it. People will get very angry if you don't give them what they want and they WILL go elsewhere.

10. Field experience: Installation knowledge and experience is very important. If you're in this business long enough, you will learn a lot from your installers. I recommend any new KD to be on the job during an entire install.

11. Problem solve: When problems arise during installation...you'll need to talk with the subs and the customers to devise a plan to action.

I hope this helps!
Kompy

Everytime someone posts on here about how something is off a half inch, or there's a mark on the cabinet door, or the seam is visible or whatever, everyone here says you paid for perfect, it should be perfect, tell your KD to replace that, call their boss.. well, that will be you handling it.

My day is not filled with designing kitchens. I actually have to schedule time to design & quote. Days are filled with paperwork, (writing orders, replacement orders, & internal company stuff),scheduling deliveries, meeting with clents, going to job sites, calming crazy customers, and just generally trying to get things done. I'm paid salary plus commission, (and we're not talking 6 figures here) have a sales goal to achieve & bosses to make happy, work probably 50 or more hours per week (maybe not so much right now, though) evenings, Saturdays, whatever I need to do to "service" the customer. This is not a job where you can work school-time hours, at least not where I work.

But you asked how to get started -- I was in graphic design & then interior design and was hired without cabinetry experience 11 years ago. When I was hired I was an outside sale rep for something completely unrelated but had experience in a retail design store, and have a people personality. It was easy to learn the computer programs (we now use 20/20, but we also used others), and I had a department of experienced people that helped me learn the ins & outs of cabinet design. Your idea of asking for a job with the firm you're working with isn't out of line, but I would wait until your project is finished & see how it goes. It is an extremely stressful job keeping people happy and that is probably the most important part of the job.