It is nice when the tops and bottoms line up. It's not so bad if they don't line up if the divisions are somewhat far apart, but not as nice when they are close, like you have with the 12" on the bottom, 15" at the top situation.

Are you sure 24" is wide enough for your microwave and the side clearance it requires?

I had a 6" space in our last kitchen. We were just going to fill it, but I had dh make it into a cabinet instead. It became one of my favorite features...It was perfect for storing a folding step stool. SO handy.

It looks like you have a nice layout.

I think it is very hard to line up tops and bottoms without a big sacrifice in functionality. I've seen that done for more stand-alone furniture style hutches, but not the whole kitchen. I would suggest go for functionality in the lowers first because that is where you get your big storage payoff and second, as particularly with an island there it is almost impossible to get a full on view of an entire wall. As uppers are at eye level, it is nice to have some symmetry between the door sizes (i.e. 15" and 30" cab or 18" and 36" cab), but if you can't it's not that big a deal unless you are building a focal point arould a few cabinets flanking either the range or the sink. In general, fewer larger cabinets work better and are less expensive. Depending on your door style, it can look better as well since most doors/drawers have a frame around the perimeter.

I'd definitely do the 2 15" doors for the pantry. I have a 24" pantry and did 2 doors--it intrudes less into the room, no worries about the heavier door pulling on the hinges, and looks so nice with decorative knobs meeting in the middle.

For your sink area, are the fillers for looks or to do a bumpout? Your sink looks to be a focal point so I'd be hesitant to alter what you've planned and having a good sink/faucet is SO important; but if you can steal another 3" from somehwere it'd make that 6" pullout so much for useful to bump it up to 9". If you could shift the window pass-thru to the right 12", you could then combine the 12" cab with the 6" for one 18" cab. Then you could go for two equal sized cabs on either side of the pass-thru--perhaps even glass doors if you like.

The 3" fillers on either side of the sink base are there because I just wasn't sure what else to do with that space because the pass-through cut-out will be 36 inches wide, with 3 inches of wall exposed on either side. So, I was attempting to keep the base cabinets lined up with the wall cabs. I could move the DW over 3 inches and have it be right next to the 36" sink base, but then the edge of that DW will not line up with the cabinet above it. Maybe this wouldn't matter.

Another HUGE issue I am having right now is my support beam. I don't think I expressed how much trouble I am having with that thing in my original post. How do I hang the wall cabinets around that beam, if they are to go all the way to the ceiling? I am wondering if I should not go to the ceiling, but leave some space at the top of all of them to clear the beam. If I do that, then how much space do I need between the bottom of the beam and the top of the crown molding in order for it to look ok?

I am very limited for space, so moving the pass-thru isn't an option, I don't think. I can't move it to the right anymore because there will be a corner cabinet on the wall and a lazy susan on the floor under it. I could move it to the left 12" but I'm not sure what issues that would help resolve.

Thank you for your advice so far - and, any ideas about how to design cabinets around a support beam are greatly appreciated.

window/sink: I don't think you need to worry about keeping the same dimensions of the pass-thru with the sink--the main thing is centering it. It actually looks nice when the cabinets are set back slighly from window/pass-thru allowing it to be framed with decorative molding. This is not the best pic, but shows my setup with 36" sink base, 42" window and 48" distance from upper-to-upper allowing 3" clearance per side for trim:

If it were me, I'd opt for the 15" cab and 9" pull-out in lieu of the fillers.

Regarding your beam, I've seen some clever treatments. Try generating a new thread with a very specific title, like "Help integrating cabinet height with drop beam" and I think you will get a better response. Look at whitevenetino's kitchen in the FKB for her solution.

Here is a link that might be useful: whitevenetino's kitchen - beam example

I took your advice and posted a dedicated thread re: the beam. Here is a picture of the beam in question:

{{!gwi}}

If I were to move my microwave to the farthest right and put it in my pantry cabinet to the right of the range, what are some pros and cons? Will it be too far from the fridge?

I am really struggling to find a place for that micro... and I'm not a fan of putting it under a counter. I really want a separate hood, but I feel like I am trying to solve a puzzle with no solution with this micro storage thing. The one I am looking at would most likely require 24 inches wide by 24 deep (for fan clearance in back and side clearance)

Thanks!

I just saw a new posting that has a picture of how they worked around the beam. Check out the thread:
"Now what clever way can I light this cabinet with this outlet?"

I was playing with your cabinet runs (and succeeded a bit in simplifying the visuals with 3 30 inch uppers and a single 18 upper, and 24, 18 amd 30 for the perimeter bases aside from sink,appliances and corner LS. Much less complicated). Might need to go down 3 inches on the sink run for filler and fit but it is closer...

Then as I'm looking at it and contemplating your awkward beam location, this comes to me:

Duh. Did we even look at pivoting the island to widen the main work AND traffic AND seating aisles? Island could even be a foot wider with one cabinet facing the range and seating for 3 on the curve. Or 4. Choose between more seating vs. more storage:

Maybe I am crazy but looks like this solves three problems: tight aisles; shallow counter overhang; & awkward beam placement. Perhaps the hutch piece could make an early exit to the playroom after all?

I know you were kinda feeling done with the layout stuff but I just had to throw this out there...

Oh, and if the pantry is conceived of as a closet type rather than a cabinet, the beam is less in visual conflict I think. (And the pantry should be cheaper to build!)

CelticMoon: Where do you have the china cabinet? It was on the wall b/w the kitchen & playroom....it's 17" deep...

"...Perhaps the hutch piece could make an early exit to the playroom after all?..."

It is gone. That would be the compromise.

Celtic - thank you for another great idea! I'll have to mull it over some more. DH was very happy to be able to leave the china in the kitchen, so I don't know...

I am still flip-flopping about the microhood thing. If I could just make up my mind about that, I'd be on my way. That one decision is really holding me up.

I really like celticmoon's idea of the closet pantry. Architecturally it makes a lot of sense. I like her placement of the microwave between the pantry and hood as well. There is nothing to say, you could not slide the range down another 3" right to better utilize space. It's just a tradeoff between the symmetry of the first vs. storage utilization--but either solution would work well. We have a very similar island to the one in celtic's 2nd pic though with seating for 3--if you are interested in details let me know.

Valin - do you have a pic of your island? And, do you mean move the range down 3" and put the micro on the left of the range instead? Or, eliminate the pantry? I'm confused about that comment.

Why would 36" be ok in between the range and island in this particular scenario? Doesn't the range make it a "workway" and require 42" per NKBA?

Hmm... I wonder if I could have all of this AND the china somehow? Just temporarily, even?

It does seem to lay out a little more nicely when you keep the kitchen on its own side of the beam more.

gardenwebber: 36" is not ideal and I was to comment on that until I realized you only had 39" before. Those 3" can be made up through some minor tweaks and adjustments and no reason not to explore this option further if you like it. I would keep the micro where celtic has put it. I only meant you could potentially downsize the cabinet to 27" cab. if you like and so slide the range over 3". That said my micro is in a 30" cab, though I don't need it all, everything else just laid out better thant way and honesetly, I like the look of a little extra wood reveal on either side.

Someone had asked for specs on my island the other day (and never acknolwedged it after I went to the trouble to reply so glad if you can make use of it) and the link to that thread is below. It's a bit larger, but idea could easily be modified to suit your space--esp. as you do not have a prep sink.

Here is a link that might be useful: Questions answered about my island

Regarding the clearances, 15" overhang is also ideal. Mine are only 13-1/2" and work fine--even for the adults. I just made sure to choose some shallower depth counter stools--which are about 17" deep so they do stick out a tad bit. However, I'd choose the aiseway clearance over the overhang and just do 12-13" or like my island do the seating more along that part opening to the nook and the curve and only seat 3 (which is what you had in your earlier pic anyway). For an island of that size, I feel it's more in proportion to limit seating to 3 otherwise it begins to look top heavy.

Hi everyone! I am sorry for disappearing. Valin - you were kind enough to share that photo, then what do I do but slack on the response time, just like the last person! I just got unbearably overwhelmed again and needed to take another break.

Valin- your island is lovely. Thanks so much for sharing the pic.

I am liking this idea of aligning the island with the beam instead of crossing it the other way. To expand on Celtcs idea, I've been thinking of turning the "island" into a penninsula that would be anchored to that wall that the china cabinet was going to be up against. Are there any reasons I shouldn't do this? It would block off traffic from in front of the fridge over to the other side of the kitchen, but, then I could make the penninsula a bit longer thus gaining one more bar seat possibly plus another base cabinet. I really don't think I need a direct line from the fridge to that area, anyways. The only thing I can't figure out is, if I were to keep it 4 feet from the fridge, then how would I handle that wall opening into the PR/future DR since the penninsula would run into that space, widthwise.

I seem to have 3 options:

-Make the doorway smaller so that the penninsula is completely anchored to the wall and none exposed.

-Open the doorway up more so a good 2 feet of penninsula is exposed with the barstools behind the wall along with the overhang.

-Leave it the way it is, and just have a foot of the penninsula showing

I could move the penninsula back towards the windows so it is perfectly aligned with the wall there, but then the barstools would be crowding up the other side of the kitchen and I do still want an eat-in area there.

What do you all think?

I hope I explained myself well. If not, I can attach pictures.

gardenwebber: No prob. on not replying. I was sidetracked myself shopping for a dining set and on the decorating forum more than here.

Back to your peninsula, I'm a bit hazy on some of your requirements so yes, a picture would help. Not knowing the overall floor plan and traffic patterns of your home, I'm hesitant to say at this point if that'd be a better option. What are your needs for counter seating? Three or four? If four, then I agree a peninsula would work better and you'd definitely get more storage and counterspace; however it does alter the traffic flow in a significant way through the cook/prep zones whereas the way you have it, the island blocks it off and people go around the island through to the garage? Is that the main exit to the house. Just imagine my house this morning packing lunches for 4 and kids going in and out of garage to car with all their stuff. Having a shielded prep space is very impt. but you know your overall layout better and traffic patterns.

I would plan carefully that opening to your PR/DR. If your RF is to the left, you need to insure door clearance and allow some filler space. Will your opening be cased? If so, clearance needs are more to pass the casing. If you do opt for the peninsula, I'd prefer to see it behind the wall and reduce the opening to the DR. That way you could even do an appliance garage coming down on that wall.

Valin - since I am still yakin' on about my layout, I am actually going to bump my old thread. It has a lot of relevant photos in it (including my entire floorplan and traffic needs)

I'll bring this thread back when I finally really do decide on my layout and am truly ready to "talk turkey" about cabinets.