My husband and I have been installing and designing kitchens for over 10 years and 9 out of 10 kitchens have a 36" sink base. My mother currently has a 30" sink base with a garbage disposal, water filtration, there is no room for a trash can because of the water lines for the sink, the water lines for the refrigerator and dishwasher, not to mention the drain for the sink and the drain hose for the dishwasher. But like you stated it is ultimately your choice.

Take pots and/or pans that you use frequently with you to a kitchen showroom that has 25" sinks on display. See how those pots and pans fit and how it would feel to soak or clean them in the sink. I suspect the experiment will make you opt for the larger sink cabinet base, but everyone is different and you may find the 25" sink sufficient for your needs. But there's nothing like a real-life example to help you make up your mind.

I've usually squeezed a standard-sized sink into a 24"w sink cabinet. The space under a sink cabinet is probably the least useful undercabinet space in a kitchen, so I try to minimize it. I don't like it to be more than 30" wide (unless you're using huge or multiple sinks), but having a 15" wide (frameless) door does allow for one of those convenient round pop-out trash bins with the lid that automatically opens and closes with the cabinet door. Some of those are available for narrower doors but they don't hold very large bags.

I went from a 36" base to a 27". I agree that 36" is wasted in a small kitchen. When the 27" base first went in, it looked like a toy sink base to me. I would not go any smaller. I have a garbage disposal, cleaning products, and sink drainer in my cabinet. Yes, you could fit a garbage can, but I really love my 13" W pull-out trash cabinet.

I think the sink wall still has a lot of problems--too many small cabinets. I would not use 12" cabinets. I have a 13" for mugs and overflow glasses and it's my least favorite cabinet.

I would read the linked thread where we recommend ditching the lazy Susan and using drawer bases in the corners.

I would also think about using such heavy treatments as corbels, valances, ornate door style, and dark cherry in a small kitchen. You asked in your other thread if that look is dated. I'd say yes, for at least five years now.

Here is a link that might be useful: drawers instead of Susans

Doesn't Ultracraft offer custom sizing, so that you are not limited to those standard 3" increments? So you could get an oddly sized base and corner unit, add an inch or 2 here or there and subtract elsewhere so you get the spaces that you want without waste?

BTW I have a 30" sink base and have easily fit in a double trash pullout on one side, the garbage disposal in the rear center, and 2 other pullouts on the other side (one on the floor which has my compost bin and cleaning supplies, the other a narrow wall pullout for cleaning cloths, sponges, screwdrivers and flashlight. I think that I could put a NeverMT unit in there too. My sink is a 28" (26" ID) even though the manufacturer said it needed a 36" base, it fits beautifully in the 30" base.

If you prefer to put in a 27" sink base (I've done plenty of them) consider a "D" sink. It will fit and holds as large a pan as a big single flat on the bottom....
...BUT the faucet will have to be placed off the corner of the sink instead of centered.
It is possible to fit a carefully selected trash OR a disposer -with plumbing carefully placed BUT NOT both without a shoe horn.

In my own mid sized kitchen I have a 27"SB with a D sink and we keep a trash pail below on one side for recycles (have a separate trash pullout) and adequate room for cleaing supplies on the other side.

I second Mayflower's suggestion about looking into alternatives to the susan- either a dead corner or a blind with a lemans depending on dimensions.

You could also get the larger sink base and install a divider within to create a nook for the cutting boards.

My client had an existing 24" sink base so she was use to that in her small kitchen. She went with a Blanco Silgranit single bowl. I don't have finished pics yet, but here is my design software's computer rendering. She wanted to fit in a pull out waste basket on the right....and she was keeping her laundry chute in the corner.....so the corner base cabinet is a custom easy reach with a large clip on the back corner.

Super large sinks are nice...but I agree. If you have a small kitchen, it's best to go with the smallest sink you can live with.

My current sink base is 27" & I can fit a standard 1/2 sheet pan in there. Or a very large pot. I really don't have issues fitting anything in it. In my kitchen-to-be (still dreaming...), what I want is the same size sink with an offset drain, which puts the GD on one side of the sink base, leaving room for other stuff on the other side--GD in the center seems to be really inefficient with regards to actually making use of that space.

An installation I did with a 24" sink base and a sink with the drain at the left rear corner. Very neat cabinet underneath with all the plumbing and electrical stuff at the far back, leaving lots of usable space in front.

{{!gwi}}

This post was edited by lee676 on Thu, Sep 25, 14 at 1:16

Ultracraft does not have corner drawers and I have a blind corner now that I absolutely hate! raee, I can customize sizes with Ultracraft and I am doing it in places but there is only so much I can do because of existing elements. There is 54 1/2 inches to the center of the window from the left corner and 34" to the edge of the existing molding. I was even considering moving the window but I was told that it would be about $1000 with fixing the shingles outside.

may_flowers - originally I had 9" cabs on each side of the window on top (Yikes). I do agree that the small cabs are not ideal but once again I did not want to go with blind corner on the top. Maybe I could do large easy reach cabinet with the right side leg being 33" next to the window. Have to check if there would be any issues with the hinged door and weight of the door? Than I could do just one large cabinet (around 42" or whatever it comes out to be to match the bottom) on the right side of the window instead of the two cabs.
I wanted a small garbage pullout there is no good place to put one. I was thinking of making the sink doors as a pullouts rather than hinged and have a small garbage can there. We do not generate much garbage since we are very diligent about recycling.

jakuval - I don;t love the D shape sink and I prefer the faucet to be in the center. Where can I get that shoe horn to fit everything in :) Depending on what water filter I would get I can always mount it in the basement. I will revisit the blind corner with some "fancy" gizmo maybe.

inudev_liny and raee - I had to look up what NeverMT unit was. I guess I did not hang out long enough here yet so did not know about it. What a great idea! I am totally doing it!

Mrs_Nyefnyef - I have a standard drop in sink now that has internal width of about 21" and have no problem washing anything in it.

lee676 - that's exactly the sink I have right now just in white! The problem is I can not find an under-mount sink with an offset drain. The best I can come up with is rear drain.

meganmca - in your "dreams" did you by any chance find an offset drain sink that is SS and undermount?

I did--but just looked & they are backordered. They weren't originally--for all I know, though, you could find the same thing somewhere else...sorry!

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen sink

meganmca - that link took me to the faucetdirect with elkay sink with rear mount drain. What sink did you find with offset drain that is on backorder?

Sorry, should've said: Same link, but change the "Finish"--you get options of left & right drain there. I have no idea how I figured this out in the first place...

meganmca - thank you. You are obviously a genius for figuring it out.
I found a way to get to the right side drain that is not backordered but I really need a left side drain.

Here is a link that might be useful: Right side drain sink

I found left side drain sink on AJ Madison so it must be justFfaucet direct that's backordered

Here is a link that might be useful: Left side drain sink

may_flowers - thank you for that link about corners and drawers. It definitely gives me something to think about. I thought I wanted to have lazy susan so I can have a place to store all my small appliances (Cuisinart, blender, crock pot, waffle maker etc.). I am searching to see where people are storing their small appliances now but have not come up with anything specific yet.

If you have the same sink with the left rear inset drain in white (called American Standard Silhouette), your sink is designed for either drop-in or undermount installation and can be reused as an undermount. That link shows a picture of it so installed. (great sink, by the way! Loads of room for a sink that width, and up to four faucet holes in back, not in the corners).

For blind-corner base cabinets, I like these things.

Thanks for the links to not-backordered!

You're welcome, Margo. Here is one link about small appliance storage.

Imo, they shouldn't go in your prime work zone. I used my over-fridge cabinet for light-weight appliances. It's divided vertically and has two shelves. I keep a steamer, ice cream maker, and yogurt maker there. My crockpot is in a bottom drawer with my hand mixer. I couldn't find a home for my Cuisinart so I put it on the counter in a corner. Not worth it to me to devote a cabinet to just that. My waffle maker is in a closet since it's used only a few times a year.

It looks like you might get a 36" drawer on the LR wall if you forego the Susan, so they could go in the bottom drawer. You could use heavy duty glides on that drawer if necessary.

Here is a link that might be useful: storing small apliances

I have a 27 1/4 inch sink base with ultracraft. I have a small condo kitchen. I got a Kraus 23 (21 inside). It's much deeper than my previous sink and plenty big for my needs. I can fit my garbage pail on one side and supplies on the other sink. My sink has a center back drain and I also have a garbage disposal. Sink base prior to reno was 30 inch and I do not notice the 3 inch reduction.

I also had to use a Super Susan in one corner and also another corner I had an odd corner custom done by Ultracraft due to a structural jog out.

I had a large blind corner cabinet before reno which was horrible. Looked like a dark large endless pit. I have much more usable space now in the corner Susan. There was really no way to avoid using one but I have found it much more usable than the blind corner.

ee676 - I'm pretty sure that it is the same sink but I would not want to keep it since it is in pretty bad shape and it did not hold up that well (all scratched up on the bottom). I also want a stainless steel sink for a change, I am tired of white enamel.
I am not too crazy about the LeMans but I do like the rev-a-shelf one. I could live with it. Have to show to DH just to make sure that he is OK with it as well.

meganmca - you are welcome! I feel that I am asking so many questions so I am trying to also "give back" with my limited knowledge :)

may_flowers - I will have to re-draw my plans with the blind cab and see how it will work out. I am not quick enough yet to figure it all out even with the use of software :) I can use the software only on Saturdays for limited time so my planning and re-drawing goes slow :( My husband is getting impatient with slow progress on the kitchen.
I guess everyone uses their small appliances in a different way. My bread-maker is on the counter because I use it at least once a week, I use waffle maker almost once a week, I use my Cuisinart few times a year! Crockpot is in the basement since I don't use it much (just not used to cooking in it). When I buy a better blender it will probably gets used more - daughter and DH like smoothies but current blender is not too good.

kompy - The kitchen design you did for your client looks very nice. Yes, if I had a big kitchen I would love to have super big sink but I am comfortable with my small sink so I think I will be OK with the same or slightly larger sink. I think I would rather have more counter space anyway.

I so appreciate everyone's input. It definitely is helpful to have other people's input especially when they have a lot more knowledge than I do. I will take all suggestions into consideration and and hopefully will have another version of the plan ready soon.

It sounds like you haven't heard about the Blanco Silgranite sinks. Looks like you have a lot of reading in store! They are well-loved sinks on GW and there are many threads about them. They are made from a granite composite and keep their good looks for years, without special care. I did not want a D sink so I got the Silgranite Vision sink for my 27" sink base. The inside measurement is 21" x 15". There's what they call a chamford edge, which eats up some space. But there hasn't been anything I can't fit in it, and I've had mine for two years.

I too have a small kitchen and opted for a 27" sink base. My sink (under mount ss) interior basin space is 23" x17". Faucet is in the back. So happy with my sink!

Not going to draw all these but here is the math on your options, all have the 27" sink base.
Disclaimer- comparing sq in is useful but to assess the correct solution for any kitchen requires a look at what is actually being stored and how the choice accommodate the "stuff" :)

Assuming frameless cabinets- drawers lose 3" width, roll outs lose 5, pull outs 3" -numbers are square inches per cabinet.

Layout as is-
21 Dw,2ro 1000
36 susan 1206
9 po 360
Total 2566 sq in

Blind corner with Hafele Lemans with drawer on top- good for appliances and other odd sized objects, cabinet by door is a 21" wide by 12 deep turned sideways w/3 shelves with a filler at the wall- you could actually use about a 22 since you can get sizes (this is likely the most expensive option)
48-lemans 884
21-drawer in blind 360
12 x21 sideways 3 shelves 756
18-dw, 2 ro 820
Total 2820 sq in
Change the Lemans to a Magic Corner 2 adds 196 sq in.

same as above but with a 12 pull out on end.
48-lemans 884
21-drawer in blind 360
12 PO 540
18-dw, 2 ro 820
Total 2604 sq in.

30" 3DB, dead corner, 18 cab w 2 ro (ros work for appliances too but 18 is too narrow)
30 3db 1540
45 lemans 723
18 drawer 300
Total 2563 sq in.

lastly-15 trash po on end by door, 45 lemans in a blind, 18" with 2 ros.next to sink
15 with trash 240
45 lemans 723
18-dw, 2 ro 820
Total 1783 sq in.
but that gives you a dedicated trash (single) lose the trash and add two ros adds 400 in,
change to a pull out adds 480 Total becomes 2263 (which is why I generally discourage the smallest Lemans units)

Just for grins I checked a 36" sink base with a 9" po next to it, 48 lemans in the corner and the 12" deep x 21 cabinet turned.
Total came to 2360. but you can fit trash under sink easily.
now back to work.

jancy - thank you, it makes me feel better about possibly getting smaller sink and smaller cabinet. Of course if I ditch the lazy susan that might not be an issue. I have a blind now that I have to climb into to get anything out and I honestly do not know what is all the way in the back of the cabinet - I might find some surprising stuff when I have to empty cabinets for demo :)
I just showed my husband the rev-a-shelf gizmo for blind corner and he thinks he likes that better than lazy susan.

may_flowers - Oh no! More things I have to choose?! Now I would also have to choose the color for the sink. I will definitely check it out (i looked really quick) but first I have to figure the layout and cabinet sizes.

I am spending waaaaay too much time lately on GW. I am getting addicted and I love it, but my family is starting to notice that I am on a computer all the time - heehee.

jakuval - OMG - I'm almost speechless. Thank you for all the though and work you've put in into different solutions!!! I will try to decipher it all that tomorrow, since to be honest I don't follow 100% right now :) But I think I get the general idea.

When I was thinking about putting in a blind I automatically thought on the sink wall probably because that is what I have but that would not have worked with magic corner because the door opening would have been to small since I could only fit 39" blind. Putting the blind on LR wall makes sense and if I put 12" by the doorway I could make it a pullout for trash if I put rev-a-shelf basket pullout attached to the door and just get narrow trash can.

With may_flowers, annkh input about 12" uppers being too small I will try to see if i can
1. put in one large cabinet on right side of the window (41 1/4 I think)
2. put in one large easy reach cabinet on left side of the window. Easy reach would have to be 24 X 33 1/4. So I am guessing that door on the right wold be about 21". If the doors opened to the left would that be too much stress on the hinges?

And just to think that only last week I thought I was almost done and here I am probably completely redesigning it. I am SO GLAD I posted stuff here.

I have the Ultracraft 27" sink base too. I used a Kraus D-bowl sink with the faucet off to the side. I did look at the Blanco Silgranit ones-loved the anthracite color but they only come in 10" depth. I wanted to keep the sink depth at 9" or less as a compromise between an useable sink and fitting a trash can below. I still spent many nights measuring every possible dimension after the sink was installed before getting the Rev-a shelf trash pullout.

There's been a lot of discussion of the sink but almost none about the lazy Susan itself. I know you are reviewing your options, but please visit a smaller Susan before you get one. The measurements are for the wall. Unless your counters are less than standard depth, the return is 24". You can think of the opening to the cabinet as a triangle, with the hypotenuse being the space your hips have to fit in if you ever want to reach in the corner. (Am I the only one crazy enough to think of it this way?) With a 36", your triangle is 12x12x~17. With 36x33, your triangle is 12x9x15. And though the math teacher in me thinks having a Pythagorean triple (3, 4, 5) right triangle is pretty elegant, that two inches might make that cabinet pretty uncomfortable.

In my small kitchen, we went with a 30" sink and a blind corner that my husband custom designed an insert for. It looks basically like the Shelf Genie blind corner but cost us way less. (Picture and instructions will be posted next week some time. It just got finished, and we are away for the Jewish high holidays.)

joygreenwald - you sure painted and image in my head trying to climb into a corner lazy susan cabinet - not a pretty picture. I did consider the size of the opening that's partiallywhy I did not want for sure go with the 33X33 and compromised on 33X36. I do have some reservations about having that opening possibly too small but if I end up with lazy susan solution I think I can live with the smaller opening and hire a small child to crawl inside to retrieve things :)

I will hopefully figure out the blind corner lay outs that jakuval listed for me today. I am also trying to understand the closing off the corner and putting drawer cabinets on each side. Math is not my strong suite :)

I would love to see your solution for the blind corner. I did not love Shelf Genie as it seems it would be hard to get to the back shelves.

I didn't see that you were thinking of a 33 x 36 susan- in that case the storage of the susan goes down to the same as if it were a 33 x 33. I have pretty much never put in anything smaller than a 36 x 36. 95% of the time in frameless I use the Suzi Q from Hafele.

Worth looking at a recessed corner sink in that space but like religion and politics-ymmv.

I have a 33" x 34" corner with the bifold door -- but no lazy susan etc inside. The opening is just enough to easily (but carefully!) pass through my crockpot, canning pot, and chicken fryer -- the largest things that I store in there. It also holds my Foreman grill, blender, nutribullet and various bottles of soda and wine, and excess pantry items. I don't find it too difficult (yet) to reach everything, but I do think that if the opening were any smaller it would not be an easy cabinet to use at all.

Hey, a nine, 9, 9 inch wide tall cabinet is pretty useless. It may be a net 4 or 5 inches wide, after you deduct for the frames, etc. Two cookie sheets? and wasted space on top of the cookie sheets? Or a thick cutting board? Not worth it in my opinion.

I consider my sink and faucet for that matter to be appliances, in their own right. My sink is 30 and I woulldn't go any smaller. My large single is my delight, ok, one of them.

Well, "life" happened and the kitchen took a back seat :(. It's always on my mid but did not get a chance to spend any quality time on it.

Thank you jakuvall, for some reason I did not realize that 36X33 would have smaller suzan - duhhh - thank you for pointing it out. That now makes me think twice about doing 36X33 as I am "loosing" more space than I thought.

westsider40 - I was looking at the rev-a-shelf but did not look closely at the measurements. I will double check to see how much space is inside the rails.

I don't like that left corner so much that I am considering moving the window so I can have more usable cabinet sizes. As I have it now on the uppers, I do see how having skinny 9" (about) door as part of easy reach and than 12 inch door/cab might not be the best. And there is just no great solution for the bottom either.

If I move the window about 10 inch to the right and make my cabs 13" deep since I think I can do maybe 26X26 easy reach than 15" cab and 29" cab on the other side of the window. I

Than the bottom cabinets I think could be - 36X36 susan, 12" (pullout), 30" sink cab, 15" drawer.

I have total of 119 inches on that wall but want to leave couple of inches (I think maybe I'll leave 3") between the cabinets and door molding.

I will have to draw it out and see if i need to tweak the sizes as I am not that quick with math but it seems like maybe that would be a better solution? I will play around with couple layouts and see what makes more sense.

Once I re-do my drawings, should I make a new post or continue this one - not sure what is more acceptable and easier or proper.

jakuval - OMG - I'm almost speechless. Thank you for all the though and work you've put in into different solutions!!! I will try to decipher it all that tomorrow, since to be honest I don't follow 100% right now :) But I think I get the general idea.

When I was thinking about putting in a blind I automatically thought on the sink wall probably because that is what I have but that would not have worked with magic corner because the door opening would have been to small since I could only fit 39" blind. Putting the blind on LR wall makes sense and if I put 12" by the doorway I could make it a pullout for trash if I put rev-a-shelf basket pullout attached to the door and just get narrow trash can.

With may_flowers, annkh input about 12" uppers being too small I will try to see if i can
1. put in one large cabinet on right side of the window (41 1/4 I think)
2. put in one large easy reach cabinet on left side of the window. Easy reach would have to be 24 X 33 1/4. So I am guessing that door on the right wold be about 21". If the doors opened to the left would that be too much stress on the hinges?

And just to think that only last week I thought I was almost done and here I am probably completely redesigning it. I am SO GLAD I posted stuff here.