I'd also shave back the ends so they meet the built-ins. The pie-shaped approach.

marcolo, if you shave back the ends isn't it a straight bench? How is pie shaped different from 1/2 circle? Sorry I just don't get it.

2LittleFishies,

A straight banquette running between your two built-ins
will provide more flexibility in the long run
than a customized curved banquette shaped for a specific table.

With a straight banquette, down the road,
if someone wanted to float the table in the middle of the space
and use chairs rather than the banquette,
the banquette can just become a nice "window seat".

Look at Bellsmom's first two drawings on
Thu, Sep 6, 12 at 23:44.

Draw a line. Start from very end corner of the banquette--knee side, not butt side--and draw a line from there to the corner of the built-in.

I might consider a custom piece of furniture rather than a built-in, too, if you were going with that shape. A straight banquette would be OK as a built-in.

Sandra,
If I don't find a good solution that's not a bad idea. I'll see if my cabinet maker comes up with a good plan : )

Do let us know what you decide--and post pics when it is in.

I am eager to see it. It will be lovely, whatever you decide will fit your space and life style.

Fishies,

I love love banquette seats.. Nothing says "stay awhile, have a cup of coffee in my cozy kitchen" like a banquette. In your kitchen, I still feel that a built-in curved banquette feels a bit like "elephant in the middle of the room" .. I much prefer a straight banquette and a clean rectangular table .. Optionally with built in leaves and a couple of extra chairs/ stools to pull up that live elsewhere. If you will, Bellasmom's option 1 with18" jut out with Marcolo's pie mod seems least intrusive figuratively.. Can you possibly do a pop out window banquette with the curve etc..this would not technically add square footage?

Bellsmom- Thanks SO much for taking up my banquette issues!

It seems my options are as follows:

1) Do a curve with pie shape that protrudes 12" or 18" from the 24" built ins
2) Do a straight bench
3) Table in center of room which I know has it's pluses--- but I don't really want to. I could perhaps do it, and still do a bench for hanging out but the room is 12' wide and I don't know if anyone will want to sit and hang out on a bench that's too close to a table. Also for social gatherings if people are sitting around the table, it seems access to the bench would be non-existent. Is that correct?

You may not have enough clearance or may just not be interested but if you centered the table in the room a fireplace would be nice in the space between the cabinets.

That does sounds nice but we have one in the LR on same wall. Also our construction part of this project is over : ) thanks

If I had room for a banquette I'd build one in a minute. Definitely in a place where it could double as a window seat. I LOVE window seats.

I also love my kitchen. If I had a comfy window seat in it, that would be MY reading spot. I would design the banquette to be comfortable for lounging and reading a good book with feet tucked up beside me as well as comfortable for dining. This means a good reading light on one side or the other (or both) and probably, for me, back pillows I could reposition, since chair depth doesn't really mean good lounging depth. I learned the latter after we built a bay window seat in the bedroom. It is ''deep enough'' but barely, and it is hard to arrange back support when I want to read there. Another six inches would have made it luxurious, and made it easier to position pillows.

Personally, I like the coziness of a curved banquette, and I prefer extendable pedestal round dining tables to rectangles or even ovals. I prefer sitting, especially with largish groups, at a round table, with or without leaves. So much easier to see everyone.

I would want a table with wheels or good glides so I could move the table away from the banquette when I wanted to. So the table COULD be in the center of the room. And the banquette COULD be an inviting lounge/intimate conversation area.

Regarding your choices (straight or pie shape--I cannot for the life of me figure out what pie-shape means in this context. I drew mental angles from corner to corner, as Marcolo said, and end up with unusable shapes. Duh!!), I think straight or pie-shape is a choice of the chicken or the egg sort. If you want a rectangular table, you want a straight bench. Straight bench equals rectangular table.

If you want a round table you want a curved seat. Round table equals curved banquette.

All have pluses and minuses, as you know.

Chicken or egg decision:
1. you gotta choose round table or rectangle, OR
2. you gotta choose bench or curved banquette. Other decisions follow that.

Sandra

I know it's more money. I do. But if it were me, I'd be kinda ticked that the bay window is built so that you can't even fit a cushion there and is too high for a comfortable seat. And I'd be ticked enough to rebuild it with shorter windows (after I checked the plans to make sure it's built to them). And I were already going to rebuild it, you can bet I'd rebuild it to be THE spot for the eating banquette. It IS a "lost" detail that doesn't have a purpose if it's not done that way. You might as well have had a plain straight window there and saved money as to have a bay that you can't use for seating or isn't intended (from the beginning) to be a glass shelf lined plant nursery.

Green Designs- I agree. GC said it would be a bay window seat. The window was chosen by architect so that the depth of it would fit under the soffit (terminology?) roof outside. The specs show 14 3/4" but really when measuring now with window trim it is about 13". Also you can barely put a cushion which is annoying me. I don't know what the "fix" is. Should they have made the ledge lower somehow? I haven't expressed the fact I'm not thrilled with it mostly b/c I just realized this last week when I really stared at it.

Bellsmom- Thanks for so many great thoughts. I am a little less concerned with rectangle/round (although I do like round for coziness) as much as what will work better with the room. I want a clean look and don't want to use round if the curved bench will end up looking like it just doesn't work as well there.
THe issue visually is coming from living room and looking into that area of whether an upholstered piece sticking out will just not look the way I want.

The doors slide instead of the swinging shown but it are four 34" glass panels. The two outside are stationery and the right one goes just about all the way to fireplace wall (about 6")

Actually, there's room for about 2 to 2 1/4" cushion after they put other wood over plywood. I'll see what I can find out. I never expected it to be a big cushy seat, but....

Here it is:

If that's at 24" off the ground, then I'd have them drop the platform 10" to 14" (and lower the heating duct) so you could have a comfy thick 5" cushion (squishable to 17") chair height seating there and put the banquette there. You will only have room for around a 5" back cushion so you will have to use mostly use loose back pillows for comfort so you can access the windows to open them, but that's better than not using the space at all. And it IS the most aesthetically pleasing spot for the banquette!

Or, if it weren't built exactly to plans, I'd have the architect and builder eat the cost of shorter windows so I could have better back cushions.

It is built to plans...

The issue is the built in by that window. All the electrical and a/v conduit has been run for my organizational spot/printer/blu ray, etc.

I need to leave that as is. So if bay becomes banquette I believe thats in the way or I'd just do the window which will only fit one person.

OK, now I get it. I somehow never realized the whole layout. My fault--you posted layouts, I just somehow didn't put it all together.
I am posting a somewhat larger image of your plan below. Might help others see what I saw--and what you have been saying.

This sounds kinda harsh. I don't mean it so. But, finally knowing the traffic flow and the layout, I would say a banquette will NOT work by the straight window. It WILL be in the way visually from the LR and it doesn't make sense in the space. I absolutely agree with greendesigns in the 9:23 post above. Repurpose the bay window if you can. If it were mine and I could possibly afford to do so, redesigning would be a no brainer. If I couldn't afford to do so, either in time, money, or energy, I'd move on.

The bay as indicated will be useful as a bench or table for plants and decorative objects. It will be pretty. You can put a comfortable chair or two by it and set drinks in it. NO ONE will want to sit on a 13'' or 14'' deep seat. They would have to lean back against the window pane, a psychologically uncomfortable thing to do even if it felt OK. I would not even bother putting a cushion on it. It is NOT a window SEAT.

(I just measured the window seat in our bedroom. It is 24'' deep from the window frame to the front edge and about 72'' wide. My kitchen chairs are 15'' deep, and one sits in a kitchen chair with back and butt firmly against the back of the chair.)

I think this is what you have been fighting. You want the window seat, you would love the look of it, AND you know it doesn't quite work in the room if it is by the straight window.

Sandra

So if I can lower bay then put cushion and use for banquette??

If I can't lower bay just leave as wood top for plants or whatever.

I thought even with thin cushion people could sit while having drink or with snack table. Not to sit back on - just to sit on for a bit.

I'm at a party and am on phone typing. Can't say as much.

If bay stays as is what am I doing for a table and where???

I don't see a straight banquette being an issue. We always had a table there...

What about putting the banquette bench next to the window area instead of in it? With this plan, your cabinet would have to be narrower (34"). As far as your electrical, why can't they move it to the adjacent wall? It is not a big deal to do it at this time. It involves cutting some drywall and moving some wires. They may have to re-run some depending on where they come from but if they haven't mudded the walls yet, all the better. Your vent under the window will need to run through the bench and out the front of it. This is something your cabinetmaker can do. I would guide it closer to the floor if it were mine.

Corgi mum idk where u mean?

2LittleFishes. Just discovered your thread, following it intently because I too would love to have a banquette in my kitchen, but it's an odd space and I just can't picture it, but I'm just in the thinking stage at this point.

So I have no solutions to offer, but just wanted to comment on all the wonderful advice the others have given you. I can't believe there are so many talented people on this board and that they are willing to share their expertise AND time to really help you figure out this puzzle. Truly AMAZING and even though I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet, you've all given me a lot of food for thought about stuff I've never even considered. So thank you all for sharing your wisdom!!

Fishes looks like you have a beautiful remodel underway and from the discussion it looks like in order to have a banquette that's large enough to have the seating you need now or future(those guppies won't be small forever)or to have one at all, then something gotta give. Don't know if that's a redesign of your built-ins, the window seat or something else, but if it's at all possible then you might want to consider it. Hate to see you lose out on a functional space and one that doesn't take advantage of the architecture.

From an aesthetic point of view, on paper Holly's 3rd and 4th mock up with the table's long end extending from the bay window looks the best to me. More room, looks like it is a better use of space and more diners will have a window view.

If I were you I'd have a conversation with the contractor, see what's possible and what it would cost. Plus I would definitely share this thread with him since in it you've expressed your thoughts and questions well and it's full of valuable info and insights for consideration.

Good luck!

Where I mean what? Not sure what you are asking?

Oops didn't see pic u posted on my phone.

OK, I'm home now, and honestly this is making me nauseous. I've been working on this plan for a year and no one ever said the banquette didn't work. (I'm not blaming this on GW) and now this week we are done with all rough, sheet rock, and spackle. Trim starts tomorrow or Tuesday. I just can't start re-routing things at this point... The cabinetry is starting to be built, etc.

Before extending the 7' we always had the table floating in the center of the dining room and it was right in the doorway from LR to DR (as many people have)... SO, the banquette was allowing us to scooch it over a bit for a little better walkway and also give a different look. It also keeps the table a bit further from the island.

Other than having to use a 6' rectangle probably is there really an issue with this set up? I don't see why all of a sudden it seems not doable? Now, by curving it and adding depth to the banquette way passed the 24" built ins it gets bulky but otherwise I don't see the issue.

Please share (gently) if I'm missing something else here.

I think you'll be fine. Since there are four of you, I would make sure you can fit two chairs on the exterior side and one on each end. If you have that you'll have very comfortable seating on a daily basis. I think you might also want to consider having a table custom made. That way, after the cabinets are built, you can have the exact dimensions you need. Don't worry!!

If I were you I would stick with a straight banquette and get a table that is either rectangular or oval with gently curved corners. The cabinets are not deep enough to support a curved banquette without extending past them which is odd looking and limits the table size too much. A straight banquette allows the table to be turned either length or width wise and with 8.5 feet in seating length should be able to fit plenty of people as long as the table is not a circle or too curved of an oval. As well, I would def want removable, washable covers for the seating and would not want it upholstered.

Regarding bay window. I'm going to talk to GC tomorrow. I am doubting the window can be lowered (easily) being the bay window is obviously all one piece so the whole thing would have to be lowered and it is already permanently installed, waterproofed, and ready for the vinyl siding.
If I find out different, great but I don't think that will be the case.

However, I am thinking I may be able to make it deeper by adding onto the ledge 6-12" so we have a deeper bench. Right now it's about 13" at the center.
If that's possible I wonder if we'd need to bump out that sheet rock or if just the seat part could be extended with some corbels below for support.

Just found these...

I never thought your original idea wouldn't work. You brought up concerns you had about it:
1) getting in and out of the bench
2) you wanted two people to be able to sit on the bench and a round table wouldn't allow for that
3) bench protruding past the sides of the built-ins

and I think we were all trying to help you come up with solutions for those problems.

If you are fine with one person sitting on the bench, a round table will work fine in the location you originally selected.

Maybe you are just at the "remodel overload" stage and finding it hard to think straight with everything on your mind. Hopefully your cabinet maker will have an awesome idea for you and one day while sitting on your bench you will laugh about all of the angst this caused!

Ha! Yes, Definitely remodel overload.. It's all getting exhausting.

With the original idea I planned a rectangular table but hoped it would be
6 1/2' up to 8' and be able to seat 3-4 people but I was disappointed when realizing even with 6 1/2' table there didn't seem to be enough room to get "in".

The round table came in during the rounded bench discussion. Same with the issue of protruding passed the built ins too much.

Perhaps with a 6' table I can fit 3 people (at least 2) and for special occasions we may be able to work out an alternate plan.

I REALLY appreciate everyone's feedback. This type of discussion always gives one a much better shot at really coming up with something successful. I'm hoping that will happen! : )

Lastly, when thinking about having the bay seat come out into the room further (to make it deeper) I realize it won't work b/c it will then go in front of the built-in and I won't be able to open the drawers of built in..

I'd pay the money and move the wiring. It's not a big deal and won't be a big cost. The wall cabinetry on the right hand wall will work just fine with a window seat banquette. As it is, 24" is way to high to sit there as there isn't enough room to "tuck into" the bay and pull your feet up. It won't get used at all unless it gets fixed. That would HAVE to be a priority. No use in spending all that money to have something you can't use.

holly- Looking at your drawings I don't see how that wall cabinetry on the right hand wall can work? Unless the banquette will stay the same width that the bay window is now. But then the table would end up in front of the built in?

Also, the 24" high bay window can be used to just sit on casually (not pull up your feet but two people can sit while chatting. When you say "fix" do you mean to have them lower the whole window?

PS- I'm not being argumentative- just want to make sure I see the full picture here : )

I think Holly is talking about changing the direction of the built-in like I showed in the last drawing.

Please note that if people are sitting on a 24'' high bay window seat they may bang their heels on the wall. Especially if they are children or on the shorter side. Have you tested it?

Aaah- gotcha. Then doesn't that straight window wall seem kind of empty until the bar at end?

You're right. I'm less than 5' and you would bang heels if you were sitting way back. But I think at 13" deep it's more like a lean/sit than a real sitting back if that makes sense. I'll sit on it again tomorrow!

With your plan and holly's I'd definitely have to lower the whole bay window to a seat height of 18" right?

My thought was to leave the bay window as is and build the bench in front of it. There would be a very short back to it but not enough to really lean on. Hopefully the drawing makes it clear.

If your kitchen was my kitchen I would probably re-think the whole area, including the bar. You could complete the kitchen part as is, but do a phase 2 which would be the banquette and built-in area. I know you don't want to do that but your kitchen would still be functional until you figure out what will work best. It's too expensive a project to settle for anything less.

But, if you are happy with the banquette bench in the middle of the wall as is, then go with it. I am biased because my banquette is going to be in an angled bay window and will take advantage of the view. It's my favorite part of my future kitchen (November).

The cabinet on the right is wider than my drawing shows.

As long as your table is deep enough a straight banquette will be easy enough to get in and out of, probably easier than a curved banquette. The table that you pictured most recently has the seats at either end too close to the banquette, a deeper table would make a huge difference.

Hi 2LittleFishies,

In the inspiration pictures you posted most recently
note that the banquette seat is considerably higher than the chairs.
Only a very small child could actually sit that high and still fit their thighs under the table.
This picture is part of a general pattern I've noted of banquette pictures
in shelter magazines and websites that are clearly "staged"
and not banquettes that are useable.

Whatever you do, make sure the when the cushion is compressed on the banquette
the height off the floor is the same as the seat on the chairs
(about 18 inches off the floor).
My contractor made my banquette two inches taller than I specified.
Someday soon (sigh!) we will be re-doing it.

Thanks Francoise.... My current kitchen chairs are 18" off the floor and then there's a cushion on top of that. So I thought 18" height for bench would be the goal. Is that correct? What is yours?

Also, which camp are you regarding straight bench as planned in between cabinetry or trying to rearrange it to the bay window area. I don't mind the 2nd choice but it leaves some confusing options for the long wall.. especially b/c of the long windows above.

I know you had preferred the straight bench but am curious now.

Hi 2LittleFishies,

Yes, 18" (or possibly up to 19") for chairs and bench height.

I will admit that I haven't been following all the ins and outs
of the debate above on your banquette location.
But I do think there is a strong argument
for keeping it in the original planned location
with one long bench running underneath the high windows.
I like the simplicity and symmetry of that original plan.
And it gives that wall under the high windows a purpose in life.
The people on the bench won't be able to look directly out a window.
But it will feel cozy there, and they will have a full view
of all the drama of the kitchen.
They can look sideways for a view out the bay window.
The bay window might be a charming place to put an indoor herb garden or other plants.
Always nice to get some greenery into the kitchen/dining area.

If we did a bench like this we thought it would help to "clip" the corner to make it easier to get into.

You have a work area/desk built in between the bay windows and the long wall, right? I didn't realize that was pretty much fixed. If that is so, are these two sketches helpful?

The bench and rectangle table DOES work IF it doesn't too much intrude into access from LR. As you knew and said repeatedly. Here it looks OK. Not ideal, maybe, but acceptable. (I couldn't resist adding a rocking chair by the bay window.) Three could, I think, sit on the long side of the table if no one sits on the ends.

The table is 10 feet from the island, which is outer reach of acceptable. A table on glides or wheels COULD be moved closer to the island for daily use if desired, leaving the spacious bench for lounging. Again, as you said before.

Any table at the bay window is too crowded with the desk area. Again, as you said.

Hope this is of some use. With things as I now (finally? I hope) understand them, I would change my mind from previous posts and go with the bench/rectangle (or oval) table. Decisions to be made would be dimensions of the table, rounded or square rectangle or oval in shape, and whether or not an extendable table would work. It certainly would work when the table was pulled out into the room.

Final comment: I really like the idea of removable back cushions on the bench so that it can be wide enough for luxurious lounging when desired. And, of course, as a previous poster said, having the whole thing covered with zippered removable cushions instead of upholstered like a piece of furniture might be a great idea, especially with children and endless visiting kid-friends.

Sorry my last post was disturbing. I did not realize that desk/communications area was fixed although you HAD said so.
Sandra

I didn't think to do this in the other post. Here is the round table and the 12'' protrusion in the same space so you can compare. Notice I redrew the back so it is less obtrusive. I don't think anyone could sit on the bench in such a way they would need the back sticking 12'' out from the cabs.

And, darn it, it is a tossup as to whether I would prefer this or the rectangle. The advantage of the round is the easy extension with leaves into the space between the banquette and the island.

All I am doing is obscuring things. Glad I don't have to make this decision.

I promise I am outta here for a week!
Sandra

Bellsmom- OMG I wrote a 3 paragraph response this morning, got distracted by GC and then didn't press send. Now I just did, but I had to log in again and lost it all : )

Anyway, YES, the plan you posted (first one or 3rd) is pretty much where we are going to end up I think. The organizational area and bar is about to be built any day now and of course if I called yelling, "STOP THE PRESSES!" I'm sure I could make changes, but honestly I don't see a great situation even if I did that... THe organizational area is GREATLY needed and was planned pretty well. If I put it on the wall where corgimum placed it I would lose 10-12" of cabinetry which isn't a great option and then that wall would be kind of empty except for the bar area at the end of the long high windows.

The side of the refrigerator cabinet is a broom closet that will open up which although not a deal breaker is another issue with the banquette bench in bay window. At this point lowering that window quite a change and GC agrees of course that 24" is way too high. (He's actually our project manager- not main GC). It was built to plan so it's my fault for not realizing to ask to have it lower. When you're new at all of this it's hard to foresee EVERYTHING although I try! : )
Also, it would have to be built out more into the room and that messes up organization area as we said.

If I had planned it to have the banquette in the bay window area I would have also reworked those long windows b/c they keep our options limited as far as organizational spot (desk without seat) and bar/glass area.

You bring up a good point about people sitting at the heads of the table and I think, then, getting a really deep table would help with that and with the people at bench being able to get in and out of there.

Also, the french doors are actually 2 doors that slide in front of 2 stationary door panels so that helps things.

Hmmm.. what else did I write last time that I am forgetting?

OH!- Please don't worry about your post yesterday being upsetting. I wasn't at all upset with you- I think just frustrated and confused at all of the options-- none of which seemed perfect obviously.

Do you think it helps to "clip" the corners of the bench?

I SO appreciate your posts so THANK YOU!! I'll miss you -- sounds like you're going away? Have a good trip if that's the case!

Thank you for absolution. I felt terrible afterwards about posting that post, but I was in the middle of it and someone came, and I just did a quick read and sent it off.

Yes, I think clipping or rounding the bench corners helps a lot visually in your case, especially since you have a cushion on top. I also think it helps visually to stop the backs at the 24'' depth of the adjoining cabinets as I discovered when I drew the last post above. So the only protrusion into visual space as seen from the LR is the ''soft'' cushion and its support--which, as you long ago said, could be a corbel or bracket (set some distance in from the corner to avoid stubbed toes.)

GLAD to know the doors slide instead of swing. Makes a HUGE difference in the way the space and access feels.

Right now the rectangular table looks better in my head when I see it from the LR. I guess because it protrudes significantly less (a foot or so) at the outermost point. (But that won't be so if you make it wider. Be sure to graph it and think about it.) The round table WORKS so much better when i imagine adding leaves (up to 36'' is possible) for company. I don't think you can equal that potential seating with a wider rectangle.

Wish I had software that allowed 3d views from different angles! My mind's eye doesn't always see what I think it sees.
Sandra

I see the rectangle as best also. Of course, the circle functions better.
Go figure. : )

Then again as others said the straight bench may be more versatile.

I have always wanted a banquette so I can't wait to see how everything turns out!

2LittleFishies, I sense you are getting yourself into a panicked tailspin over this banquette. Take a look at image #5 on the link below. Is this what you are thinking of doing? Sure the window seat might have been a good idea, but I think this is going to work just fine

http://sybariticspaces.blogspot.com/2012/03/blue-green-and-dining-rooms.html

How did you get the Idea I am panicking??? lol : )

Yes- I have that photo and it seems that should work. Thanks! I'll keep you informed : )