I don't know but sounds to me like it is more likely a problem with the plates than the users. 2-3 plates seems like more than just one person that would have been too hard on it which seems unlikely.

To protect the plates could you just use clear plates placed on top and act like the real ones are just chargers?

Nicole, personally, I would be trying to find out why it scratched. I don't know much about that brand other than it was on a bridal registry of a friend a few years ago and I know it was very expensive.
I certainly don't know why anyone on the cooking forum (don't read it) would chew you up about this. I once had a plastic picnic set I bought - service for 12 - the whole shebang - and the plates scratched terribly. I ended up throwing it out after a few years, but I did note that the knives I had bought to complement the set were serrated and apparently very sharp. If you are using the knives that come with a regular silverware set, some are smooth, some barely serrated. I can't see how that would scratch. If you are using steak knives, then maybe they are way too sharp. Even prime rib can be cut with a "butter knife".
I would be checking with the manufacturer. Maybe you got a set not glazed properly, maybe it's just the way it is, but I would start with where I bought them first. Too bad. It's so unfortunate to find something you really like and then have problems. --

You didn't mention what kind of knife you served to your guests. Was it a sharp steak knife or a regular knife that comes with the set of flatware? My Oneida knives can cut chicken OK but they're not good for much more than that. When I served steak I bring out the steak knives because they cut through the meat much easier. I would imagine they could do more damage to the dishes than the regular knives. I never checked my china but mine are white so that could be why I haven't noticed. Are yours heavily patterned and that's why you are able to see the knife marks?

You could watch each guest as they cut their food to see who is going the damage and if it's a family member then take the person aside and ask them to please be more careful because these plates are special to you. But it if's a habit then that person may revert back to it without even realizing what they're doing. They may just have a "heavy hand". I wouldn't be surprised if it's a man doing the sawwing. I tell my DH all the time to stop scraping his dish with the fork. I don't care what it does to the plate it's the SOUND that irritates me, like nails on a chalkboard!

You've found yourself in a sticky situation here. You want to preserve these beautiful plates but you don't want to offend your guests. Hopefully it's someone you're close to so you can feel comfortable talking to them about it. Or ask another family member like your mother or sister to keep and eye out for the heavy handed diner and let them tell their spouse,etc to lighten up. I'm sure most people would not want to upset you, they probably have no idea what they're doing to your plates and would try to stop if it they were told.

Have you looked into returning the plates? Maybe the store you bought them from will take them back if you show them how poorly they're holding up. Not something I've ever tried so I have no idea if that would work.

I didn't blast you in the kitchen forum :) But I probably would have. Dishes are made to be used for food...all types of food. IF you don't want them used, cover them up (ie with the glass plate idea) but otherwise, learn to live with the fact that they're going to get scratched, and maybe even chipped over time.

I do have some special plates (venetian glass) which I only use for desert or salad because I don't want anything cut on them, but then again, they're so small you wouldn't really be able to serve an item that gets cut on them either so I guess I don't worry about that as much as with a dinner plate.

That being said, the brand of dishes you purchased should be goo quality china and shouldn't have scratched terribly badly with one use, so I could contact the manufacturer on the issue. If they're any good, they'll help you out. You don't want dinner plates you have to guard like a hawk...or god forbid serve only soft food on! If they put out a cheap line in this case, and you ended up with them, you'll have to supliment with a different plate for the actual meal, or buy new dishes.

They're only dishes though...try to remember that. Do you want to remember your dishes when you get old? Or the parties with friends and families?

If you want to be the hostess and the guest list is pretty much set from year to year and you want to serve meats that need to be cut with knives, then maybe you can do a slight attitude adjustment. This is not meant to skewer you at all but simply trying to help you put things in perspective.

Yes, you like your dishes, it gives you pleasure to use them at the holidays, but you're using them for a (hopefully) joyous occasion with people you care about - isn't that where the focus should be? In life, things break, get lost or damaged - it's part of what what happens when we have *things* used for celebrations, events and holidays. IMO, better the scratches then they collect dust in a cupbard and never see the light of day or become part of your wonderful memories of the holidays dinners you host.

Beyond that, I'd look to your knives as possible culprits. My steak knives are Chicago Cutlery, have a high carbon content which is better for resharpening purposes but they can leave grey marks on white china and when just sharpened can easily mar a finish.

If the pattern is in the vitrified porcelain, it'll scratch, no matter what. The earthenware is sturdy, but will also scratch and the bone china should be the most impervious, but eventually could show some knife marks.

If this really distresses you, buy some cheaper plain colored plates and mix them in with the V & B. While the V & B is nice, it's not fine antique china, handpainted 200 years ago..

Are the scratches grey marks on white parts of the china, or are they scratches that have removed part of a design on the plate?

If they are grey marks, those can be removed by rubbing the spots with a soft cloth with some toothpaste on it.

If they are scratches in the pattern, as others have said it seems unlikely that three guests would have been abusive in their cutting. This would suggest the culprit could be the knives, or the dishes. Scratches can also happen by stacking plates, particularly for storage. Be sure you don't stack the plates on one another without something between them like a paper plate or piece of foam or paper towel in between each one. Also they can be scratched as a result of using metal utensils to scrape plates clean before washing. Could someone have done that?

Most of all, I agree that you need to use the china and enjoy it. So what if there are some scratches? While your guests are dining on them, the plates are covered with food. And hopefully the diners are too busy enjoying the meal and the company to notice a scratch.

Store them carefully, don't allow people to scrape them before washing with a metal knife or other utensil. Then use them and enjoy them, and consider the little scratches and marks and dings as momentos over the years of wonderful gatherings and happy times.

I am sorry the Cooking People didn't treat you nicely. But the bottom line is pretty much what they told you and what the general consensus is here too. You have to expect wear and tear on your lovely things when you host people. And it's truly frustrating to have something misused, mishandled, broken, or abused, by your own guests and in your own home.
It may also just be your china. I bought some lovely dishes last year and have already had 4 pieces break either while hand-washing, or in the DW. The first plate came out of DW in two pieces. I was so unhappy about that and put it down to using a DW on them. (they say DW Safe) But all the others have been handwashed, so I think it's safe to assume that my pretty dishes won't last all that long. Curses!

You've ruled out the obvious. No pasta. No soft (non-knife) foods. You want to serve two meats. So I must assume that what you want from us, Piper, is a nice way to tell your guests to be careful. Well, I can't think of anything. Seriously. If you had a pretty antique serving dish with a fragile lid, you might be able to say "Be really careful with this lid, I chipped it myself last time I used it..." But when it comes to dinner plates and normal use, I just don't think you can set parameters. And if you DID decide to sweetly comment that your plates seem to be a little fragile and the knives make marks, there is SURE to be a smart aleck who will tell you to just bring him Chinet!

So try not to get too worked up. And let your guests enjoy themselves.

Red

Piper, I frequent the cooking forum and I responded to your thread early this morning; aside from daisyduck, who was rude and harsh to you, all the other responses were well thought and disagreed with what you wanted to do.

You have to realize that you're talking about how to use a knife to cut food in a plate, there are no rules or warnings suitable to give guests about this, they have to eat in a normal manner.

If a guest would start manipulating a fragile vase on your mantle , I would see nothing wrong in saying something to that person, "please don't touch it, it's a 17th century priceless vase" , the guest doesn't have to touch the vase, but if someone sits down to a meal and is given a plate and a knife, it would be really weird to be issued a warning; maybe your family has a great sense of humor, I know I would be teased and mocked to no end by my family, starting with my husband, who would refuse to be careful.

Someone once told me that the marks are caused by the stainless metals of the cutellery, they are not really scratches. Do try the pfzalgraf cleanser, it really works.

I wouldn't mention anything to my guests about cutting too roughly. There

I suggest you get some white dinner plates that compliment the china for this large group and use them with the other patterned pieces that won't have knives used on them if you're concerned about more damage.

I'm thinking like the others that this china had to be defective for so much scratching to have occurred with normal use. I would contact the manufacturer about this and see what response you get.

I feel your pain. I have a heavy-handed husband who, in the course of two years, broke every dinner plate that I had collected for my wedding china pattern.

Oh well. Now we use plain white china, and I replace it as it breaks. Nothing else to be done.

How about using the Christmas dishes for appetizers, soup and dessert, and plain white dishes for the entree...?

Even if the pattern is discontinued you can always find extra plates to buy. Keep checking on ebay throughout the year.

I understand your pain. I have a Lenox pattern that is expensive (over $300 per place setting, I've been collecting it for 20 years and still don't have a complete set), and crystal that is moderately expensive (not as expensive as Waterford). My sister, as much as I love her, is sort of like a bull in a china shop with stuff like this. Many, many years ago I hosted a dinner where she so abused things (sound of knife grinding on plate, knocked over crystal, clanked things around in general) that I haven't used that china when she was coming over again. Saying anything to her wouldn't help, I know she would say that I must "value things over people" if I think material things matter (she is a little bit hippy-ish). She just doesn't care about "things" - hers or anyone else's. So, I use other plates.

To be fair, my sister has matured over the years, but she had a daughter (now a teenager) who is the same way, so I still don't use it with them. I just wouldn't be able to relax and enjoy dinner hearing the knife grinding on the plate, etc.

I think you have to either suck it up and accept the damage or use different plates. If the plates have a white background you could get simple white plates, such as Apilco, and use the dessert plates and other items with it. If they are ivory, like most Lenox is, it will be tougher to find a matching plate, but it can be done.

Also, eBay is a great source for discontinued china (especially if newly discontinued). I would buy several spare plates.

First I would contact the mfg and perhaps you have a few defective plates. If you don't, then perhaps you can figure out who the heavy cutters are and always sit them at the same plate every year to avoid marking more plates. Be sure to get a few replacement plates.

That said, mixing other plates in is a very good idea. You could also try a differnt knife. Me personally, I would probably try to see how hard you have to cut in order to make a mark (using an already marked plate) as they may not be cutting very hard.

I know how much this sucks, as my everyday plates that I looked for a very long time chip so easily. I ended up buying an extra set of 8 when they disc them.

I am of the 'china is meant to be used' camp.

We do non-Christmas holiday meals with Victoria China from the early 1900s. If something gets damaged, so be it. All the owners through the generations - including me - felt that the china was not for display, but to eat off of.

If you want the set kept perfect, get another set for eating and use the ones you like for display only.

How about using the Christmas cups, saucers, serving dishes, bread plates, etc. with plain dinner plates? If somone at the party asks, just tell them that the plates are too delicate for sharp knives. You can use the plates during the holiday season for other meals.

As others have suggested, I'd call the manufacturer. I'm really surprised at how delicate the pattern is.

I know none of this, from either forum, is exactly what you want to hear. And if using your V&B will result in your spending the entire meal casting sidelong glances at your guests as they eat to see who just might be scraping up those plates - well, the anxiety is just not worth it.

I'm also in the camp that things are meant to be used - that goes for my Waterford crystal and my Mother's now almost impossible to replace Meito china. If one of life's little accidents happen or if those after me choose to use them to shoot skeet, well that's the way it goes - at least I've enjoyed serving my guests with them. When I was younger, I spent time putting nice things aside simply to keep them eternally nice or to "use someday". Then it dawned on me - this is someday and what's the point of having nice things if they're kept squirreled away?

In the short haul though, I think investing in a set of white or clear plates might ease your mind; save the V&B for coffee and dessert and save your guests from any kind of admonishment at being a potential plate scraper.

When I got married a dozen years ago, I was deciding what to "register" for. An older woman I worked with said "Honey, don't get china, it will get all scratched up when people cut their steak on it". I never did get the china, but I always assumed she was right and that china and steak knives did not work well together. I don't think there is any way to nicely tell people not to cut the meat you serve them. I think the idea of using complementary dinner dishes with the Christmas china for cups, saucers, salad etc is a good way to go. The bonus of that is you can leave your Christmas dinner plates on display in your china cabinet, and it will add to your holiday decor.

You could look for recipes that use ingredients that are pre-cut. Surely you can find something gourmet to serve guests that isn't a big hunk of steak.
Let's say you figure out who's sawing into your dinner plates. Next time use place cards and set a different place setting for that person, one you don't care as much about. Mix and match so no one catches on to what you're doing. Not everyone will get the "good" dinnerware. OR give that person the dull knife after you've scraped it across the concrete driveway a few times. LOL.

It may come to the point where you can't use these plates at family dinners, you may have to reserve them for your immediate family. Or use the plates at the buffet table and not on the dinner table (to hold rolls, side dishes, desserts,etc.)

Until you figure out what or who is causing the problem (is it the knives, the quality of the plates, or Uncle Bert never learning how to properly use a knife and fork) it's best not to place something that valuable in the care of your guests...they essentially "own" that plate for the duration of the meal until they hand it back to you.

Now you've got me curious, I'd like to see what these plates look like. Do you have a link you can show us?

When I got married a dozen years ago, I was deciding what to "register" for. An older woman I worked with said "Honey, don't get china, it will get all scratched up when people cut their steak on it". I never did get the china, but I always assumed she was right and that china and steak knives did not work well together. I don't think there is any way to nicely tell people not to cut the meat you serve them. I think the idea of using complementary dinner dishes with the Christmas china for cups, saucers, salad etc is a good way to go. The bonus of that is you can leave your Christmas dinner plates on display in your china cabinet, and it will add to your holiday decor.

Mildred...I hope someday that you get your china. That older woman was wrong. Beautiful china is a gift to enjoy, and share with your friends and families. Setting a fabulous table is a joy for a hostess. It really does not matter what happens after that...scratches, chips, etc., but the joy of setting that table and sharing that meal on your "best" can't be beat :)

If I ever dined at someone's home who admonished us prior to dinner about our knife use...it would be my last dinner there. I love beautiful things, who dosen't, but they're just things :) changing the holiday dinner to avoid cutting meat...well heck it's probably not a good idea to entertain if you're that worried about the china. Why not just serve purreed banana's and call it a day...oh and not on the carpet...they might stain!

Remember the Sex and the City episode where Carri went to a party where the hostess only served clear liquids because she loved her white carpet? That's how silly it is to plan pasta on Christmas! Buy glass dishes to put on top and let it go :)

Piper, I have read with interest your concern regarding your dishes.
I can't imagine why anyone would have been rude or harsh on the cooking forum in answer to that concern.
I like my dishes too and want to use them for holidays but I don't want them cracked, scratched, broken or abused.

We are talking about adults . How could anyone use a knife and not know it is cutting through to China ( pardon the pun).

That said, don't feel bad because you are concerned with your dishes being damaged.

Ideefixe made the remark it isn' fine antique hand painted 200 yrs ago.
I'm sure she didn't mean that rude or harsh, did you Idee.

She was just saying it wasn't all that big of deal. Is that what you meant Idee.

Well, I feel everything in my home is to be used and enjoyed but I work around my "good things" getting man handled or mauled.

I would use my dinner plates as a charger (as someone else suggested) and find clear dinner plates .
You can find clear that look very nice and you will still be able to see the beauty of your V&B.
As I said , there is nothing wrong with wanting to keep nice things from being damaged while being able to use them and enjoy them .
Good luck and buy the way , V&B make beautiful and quality settings.

Rent dishes (you can get to use some great looking china, glasses and flatware for not too much money) or buy simple inexpensive ones for this occasion. That way, you don't have to worry about anyhting.

I agree with those who say that China (and most everything we own) is meant to be used. If you don't want to have anymore scratches on your lovely China, use something else. I know the feeling. I have two sets of very expensive China which we only use on special occasions. I feel kind of dumb keeping them locked up and on display to be honest. When my aunt died, everything she treasured was either given away to family/friends, sold or given to charity. I remembered thinking how much she loved those things and how she wouldn't let us touch some pieces, far less actually use them! Made me rethink my priorities...a little,lol We all have our special items that are very precious to us for whatever reason.

Since it's a big dinner and you can't moderate everyone, not to mention relax and enjoy your dinner without worrying about who is scratching the China, do seriously consider buying another set that won't bother you as much, saving the beauty for a smaller affair.

Not trying to be rude or put you down.

Mari

If you would rather look at the plates than use them, then that's fine! You've just decided they're art. Nothing wrong with that.

Get a few of those standing plate display stands -- or the kind that hang on the wall -- and put some of the plates around the room as decoration.

This way, you and your guests can enjoy the beauty of the plates without endangering them.

Problem: Last year I bought Villeroy & Boch, Xmas China that I love and of course just as a I completing the set, they discontinued it. Okay fine, it happens. Well I hosted 12 family members for Xmas (same bunch we've had for 15 years) and when it came time to wash the dishes, 2 or 3 dinner plates were visibly scratched

Piper, I would also think to see if there is a known problem with these plates. I linked to replacements below.. without knowing the pattern it's the best I can do right now. If you post the pattern maybe a google search to see if someone else had the same issue with a bad batch of plates.

Holiday dinner depot

Villeroy & Boch Customer service

Here is a link that might be useful: Villeroy/Boch China Patterns @ Replacements, Ltd.