Mentally open your dishwasher door. Now rinse a dish or scrape a plate into the disposal before putting it in the DW. It's tight.

I don't think the kitchen seems "cut off" at all, but it does seem smaller than before. You've turned the kitchen sideways--so your main counter runs are on the short side of the available rectangle rather than the long side, and lost some counter space. On the other hand, by doing this you have gained easier flow between the kitchen and dining area. By taking out that counter space, you've left a lot of passageways and room to move around.

if you'd like a stand alone island, why not do it? you have a 45" wall spec'd on the side by the dining room that imo, serves no purpose. unless you're trying to create some division between K & DR, but adding add'l base cabs on that side as part of the island would do the same thing and create more storage. a good sized island could provide so many possibilities that i think are lost with the pony wall.
and i'm not crazy about the angled sink. if you're standing at the sink it's too tight to maneuver around to the DW. i'd switch the sink over to where the DW is now (facing the living space) and move the DW to the end of the island on the right.

but definitely take your time on the layout and rework the island. if you're not crazy about it now you won't suddenly fall in love with it when it's built. GL!

Four main areas that struck me: would you consider sliders or french doors instead of double hungs behind the DR table as it seems you have a wonderful yard? Not only will that wall of glass doors look great and function well, but if you wanted to have more space for a credenza on the wall where the single exit is, you can eliminate that exit. If code in your area permits, I'd make the exit(s) outswing if you go with doors, even if you prefer to keep the windows.

Would DH be able to live with a sink next to DW instead of a corner sink? If so, seems you would have better counterspace by slightly elongating that end of the peninsula but not lining up with the range wall so you won't lose that more spacious flow into LR, moving the DW to the end (whether you elongate or not), double sink and clear prep counter on the return.

Do you use your micro hood much for venting? I'm not as concerned about venting as most, but if you need a good vent these aren't the greatest option. Would you prefer a hood? Would you/DH prefer a cooktop and DOs? If so, I might place the RF on the DR end, switch to a cooktop with deep drawers below, and place DOs on the pantry end. You'd have a bit of a distance to travel with hot items to the DW counter, so one idea is to leave the DW away from the end as it is on your floorplan and turn that L into a U with a short-leg return next to the DW. If that appeals, the return could be used to house cookbooks on the pantry wall side and perhaps shallow cabinets next to the DW. They couldn't be accessed with the DW door open, but it might prove to be a convenient spot for vases, casseroles that are infrequently used, etc.

Whether he wants DOs or not, having the RF close to the DR is handy so I'd make that change even if you kept the range. If he prefers a range, then you already have the landing spot on the pantry end and would need a modified U, but it's nice to consider all options. Moving the FR gives you a longer counter for baking or prep next to the pantry. Of course, DH as the main chef may not find all these modifications workable for him, so he may want to incorporate some or none.

How do you plan to use your butler's pantry? Does it need to be built-in or would a freestanding piece work just as well but give you a spot for a beautiful cabinet?

This is minor, but I think you might be able to add a return shelf on the right leg of the pantry. A typical bi-fold will make accessing that area difficult so I'd use a full 180 degree hinge on a regular door. If the RF moves to the cooking wall, you'll have a bit more flexibility for the pantry design. One idea is to keep the deeper pantry separate from a fold-out pantry next to it, and still have a good length for counterspace.

To answer your original concern, I really like islands because I like to have my cooktop on one, but think you might enjoy the flow without the separate island. Good luck!

Did you decide you didn't like this lay-out I suggested last time you posted?

{{gwi:1859630}}

I don't have a problem with the angled sink - I have one - and I think there's enough room between sink and DW (although it's hard to tell, no dimension nbrs) but what bothers me most is that you're not using the floor space to its full advantage so you'll end up with less counter space than you have in your current kitchen. Which would bug me. Anyhoo, that's why I came up with my suggested plan to you.

Doubt your original thread with my post is still out there but here's what I recall for my reasoning:

The cabs below the center of the island are for storage of infrequently used items (you'll have to crawl under the overhang to access the cabs).

There is about 26" to each side of the sink in the island. I put the DW to the right so that you don't see the DW when you walk down the hallway, you'd see cab drawers. If you go with a paneled DW, feel free to move this.

You gain oodles of prep space around the range and across the aisle from it. You could even center the range on that wall for a nice focal point.

The angled island directs traffic through the space without feeling like it's cutting it off. It's also a great place to put out appetizers, etc when you entertain.

Hit submit prematurely, meant to correct my post to say you would not need a modified U if he prefers the range.

In the meantime I read Kate's response and can easily see the benefit of the visual barrier to the DR. I'm probably not as neat as she or she's more tolerant of dishes than I. ;-)

Main cook rules, and he should know what he wants. I am struck by the "smaller" feel of the kitchen overall and by the tightening up of work space. What it does look like is a kitchen for one. Does he really prefer to work in there alone? There is no second cooking area, unless that generous cleanup area counter is meant to double as that (if so, who gets to keep the dishwasher loaded to get room to work?).

In our house, the main cook is me and I didn't even ask what DH wanted, so I sympathize with your husband's wishes. (In a space that large, though, I gave us 3 very good, pleasant work areas, none of which shares function with dirty dishes and the crowd at the sink.)

I am not sure what to suggest...But it seems like you have much much less counter space in the new kitchen. Could you live without ever using your island in your current kitchen? Are you in the kitchen with your DH much? It would be pretty crowded at the sink counter.

I actually like your DH's kitchen plan. Corner sinks are fine, if there's a small gap, between the sink and dishwasher, so you can open the dishwasher, without hitting your leg. This plan seems to have that...and the sink 'looks out' to the dining area and the family room. There also seems to be room for someone at the sink and another person at the range.

Another nice change is that you can now get into the dining area, without walking around the peninsula and the dining area looks much bigger, without all the stools. It's a smaller kitchen, but you also aren't walking around the island, to get from the fridge to the sink. Big improvement, IMHO :)

Lisa's plan looks good too, but I do like your DH's wall between the sink and dining area...it seems to give the space a little more definition. I say go for it and enjoy the new kitchen!

First, thanks for all the great feedback! I must admit that I am allowing my DH more room on this because he does make the meals most nights for our family of 5 (we have 3 young sons). There were some changes to the plans I had posted which I got from the last post but could not figure out how to make on the attached. Rather than the 45" high wall this will be a full counter with counter high stools underneath. Also, after the last round of reviews it sounded like most people treat their desk as a landing pad for mail, so maybe we do not need it? (My husband and I both work at home in various parts of the house, and when my kids are older I would envision them having their own laptops).
Janet-I agree that it feels smaller, but I think that my DH that cooks for me and my 3 young kids thinks that the efficency will be worth it. However, we love to entertain and at one time there might be 30 people in our kitchen with 8 hovering over the current island, and what worries me is that we will not have that feel anymore. However, with the new design there will be enough room for all the people to be on the outside of the L shaped countertops, and even the inside, with the potential to have enough room for about 12 countertop stools. Do we go for efficency over entertainment? Please see comment below-we are going to change the 45' high wall into a countertop, so it will be a countertop with overhang for counter high stools.
Kateskouros-I should clarify here-the 45" high wall here is now an extension of the countertop into a counter high bar. I hope this makes sense-it will be about a 6 ' long counter on this side with bar stools and an 8' long counter on the other side, all places for seating. I am also unsure about the sink-maybe put it right next to the DW so that I am right next to it, as you suggest. I like that idea and since I am the "clean-up" person that should not be a problem.
Abundantblessings: The plan for the new double hung windows was at the request of the architect because he thought our floor to ceiling windows made the addition look like "an addition." As I said earlier, we have 3 young boys and those windows are priceless when they are out back playing while I am at the table or at the counter. Therefore, we will not be doing the double hung windows, but instead will keep the floor to ceiling windows. I agree that the view out of a large window is ideal. I have really been considering moving the microwave away from the oven as we do have venting issues now-maybe putting a vent alone above the over, and then possible putting the MW in the cabinet next to the RF? Sorry to be ignorant, but what do you mean when you say to include a return shelf on the pantry? Please describe. Also, as far as the butler's pantry is concerned, we are now considering putting a large cabinet here that is a "hidden closet." It would be a place for the kids shoes, jackets, backpacks, etc., as we do not currently have a mudroom and the shoes piling up drive me crazy!! The GC on the job did not like the idea of the closet/mud in the LR area, and it is a bit awkward but we really do need a place for all of our junk.
Lisa A-I felt like we lost too much sitting space with your design, but I might also not be interpreting it correctly. I really do like the idea of "hiding" the DW since it be black and will not look like the cabinets.

Thanks again for all your comments. This seems like such a huge commitment and am already worried about how our family is going to live through this! Any tips on how/where to set up a living space/kitchen? In the garage or LR?
Thanks again everyone!
Colleen

Floor to ceiling windows might just as easily be french doors which are a bit more practical if not more lovely. Closet storage makes a lot of sense, so consider the adjacent cabinet to house fold-out pantry. The Hafele is a great one albeit pricey, but in the long run worth it. If you were keeping the deeper pantry, all I meant was adding a short shelf on the left side perpendicular to the longer shelf.

I used my laundry as a temp kitchen which was perfect as it had a sink. The top of the dryer held my toaster oven and the washer my electric skillet. My laundry is off my garage where the 2nd RF is located. My reno extended several months and I found I could prepare meals that were almost as good. I used our regular dishes and silverware and simply handwashed everything. If you can't do this set up, you'll figure something else out to live through the adventure. Once the reno is complete, you'll be able to look back and smile.

If you want 4 seats at the counter (which is all you'll get from the 8' long counter in your plan) instead of 3 seats as my plan shows, eliminate the cabinet at the top left end of the island (facing the dining room table). You could even get room for a 5th stool at the counter by reducing the size of the top cabinet (facing the range wall) by 15". I don't know how much counter space your plan offers since there aren't dimensions on the plan but a quick glance tells me it's less - much less - than your current kitchen. Does your husband realize how much less counter he'll have? Maybe he's okay with that.

And you've lost me with "with the potential to have enough room for about 12 countertop stools." Where on earth will you put 12 stools? Unless you have very skinny guests, you can't put 12 stools along an 8' bar. Do you mean inside the L-island? They won't be able to pull up to the counter - no leg room. I'm quite confused about this.

It sounds like the counter will continue where the half wall was -- going in an "L" instead of straight as the plan shows. I think this sounds like a great place for your guests to congregate, and it will keep them out of the kitchen -- I'm imagining trying to cook with narrow aisles and a bunch of guests in them, I think your new plan is much better than the old for that. Talking to the cooks, but staying out of their path.

I really like it.

Guess my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders the other day. I missed your comment that you were turning the top L-section into a 6' counter overhang area. Are you extending this far enough to gain you the 15" knee space for people sitting at the counter? (overhang in the other areas looks lean to me.) Won't that cut into your DR space? That gains you 2 more seats (you can't put 2 people in the same space at the corner) so I'm guessing that you mean to have them double-up - have 12" each, not 24" - to get 12 people sitting at the counter overhang. Have I got that correct? By that logic, you could put 10 along the counter in the plan I proposed with the cabinet changes.

It's your husband's kitchen and his call but one last comment: your young kids will grow up - they have a tendency to do that ;-) - and when they do, they may decide they want to cook, too. My oldest turned into an avid cook, often whipping up food for his friends in our kitchen. If your kids do the same, your husband will need to share the kitchen. How well will the plan work then?