I am so sorry, dianalo. Your subject heading was a signal that the news would not be good, and unfortunately the logic of what you say makes sense.

It is kind of you to try to get some of us to learn vicariously. I for one always think that contracts cannot cover every possible contingency and so depend a lot on pre-contract confidence building, but I think I shall mend my ways.

I wish you were posting your finished kitchen too. When the time has come to consider bringing justice to a nasty universe, you will find allies here. The TKO Vigilantes -- think of the possibilities.

Be of stout heart, even if you have to mumble quotes from Candide under your breath for a few weeks.

Best wishes.

So discouraging. I hope you can finish up your project and get some justice in small claims court. Good Luck!

Oh dinalo, I'm so sorry to hear this. What happened with the GC? I haven't been up to date on the forum--didn't you have problems with the architect before?

I'm about to sign a contract this week with our chosen GC. I'm not sure I follow what you mean about what clause you would have about getting compensation for the attorney. I don't understand this sentence: If the contract had stated that they were due compensation if we breached, then we could have put in for it from them.

I hope it turns out all OK for you!

Let me just throw this out there after having a brief discussion with my DH (an attorney)... yes, having an attorney review your contract is a great idea but at the end of the day, if you do have a problem with your GC, you still have to sue them (more attorney fees, time, energy, etc). A good contract just means, you are more likely to win and also have the contractor pay your legal fees... if they have the money... which is a another big legal to do. Small claims court might actually be a really great avenue for you Dinanalo (minus the hassle) but I am sorry for you regardless. That just sucks.

dianalo, I'm so sorry. I had a family room addition put on my house in 2001 and had an attorney review the contract. I do remember him making additions to the contract. This time around I felt complacent, after all I had already been through one large scale remodel and we weren't changing the footprint of the house. I had some problems with my kitchen contractor, but was lucky it worked out in the end.

We want to think that with all of our careful research that there won't be issues of that magnitude. You have done a great service by reminding everyone why attorney review of a contract should be part of their remodel plans. I wish you the best of luck in getting your issues resolved.

Thanks for the support. I am hoping that my lesson is one that can be learned by others in advance so to avoid being in my shoes....

If our contract had said that the gc would get legal fees reimbursed if the homeowner broke the contract (by not paying), then it would have meant we can recover legal fees if we win. Since that is not in there, we can't get the legal fees back no matter how right we are. It is a rotten position to be in. A lawyer would have put in for that, among other protections, and we'd be better off right now. The relatively small amount we could have paid the lawyer, would have been very worth it. I am pretty certain that having a stronger contract would have meant the gc would not have played games and walked on us....

The architect is counting on the same thing. He knows that the cost of a lawyer would not be worth our while. We have to take him to small claims as well. He was incompetent/greedy in so many ways and our only recourse is to sue on our own. Again, we should prevail but it is not enough of a recovery to make hiring a lawyer financially smart.

I bet the gc and architect knew it would come to this and count on people not pursuing them.... I feel obligated to for our own sake and as a deterrent for them in the future. I will be the squeaky wheel and the town crier. I want people to know what they did and not to use them. They are bullies who know how to work the system and leave the little guy with a poor job and difficult recourse.
Ogilvie Contracting in N. Bellmore, NY, and Mark Wittenberg in Greenlawn, NY, should be avoided by consumers.

:(

Did you file any complaints online? Remember the links I found? Surely that will get their attention, especially since they claim that they had zero complaints.

Thanks for the tip about the attorney.

Hang in there
-bee

PS- I'm sure your attorney told you this, but watch carefully how you proceed....last thing you want is for the gc and architect to turn around and sue you for slander. They don't seem to be above that.

Sorry to hear about all this--but please follow your own advice and go back to your lawyer.

It may cost too much to have him "take the case," but it may be worth your while to have him advise you a bit. Small claims court is still court. You still need to know how to proceed now (should you send your gc a certified letter demanding work be completed, or not? e.g.) And your contract and canceled checks and photos of incomplete and shoddy work is still evidence, bound by the rules of evidence. While small claims court is theoretically supposed to be more consumer-friendly, it isn't always, and if you make a mistake you may not be able to use any of your evidence. He should be able to explain to you what you need to know in one phone call.

Dianalo -- So sorry to hear about this, and I agree with Marcolo that you need to get back to your lawyer for some advice, even if you're only going to small claims court.

This does NOT apply to you, Dianalo, but, as a lawyer myself, I never cease to be amazed at how people are willing to spend thousands and thousands on labor for a project, but have a natural aversion to paying legal fees. I've been asked so many "hypothetical" questions by friends and acquaintances about legal concerns, and always suggest that they consult someone who is an expert in the related area of law. However, unless they can get a "free consult", they don't follow up. Remember, a lawyer's expertise is their stock in trade, and one who is giving away "free consults" is not necessarily working hard to get the final/ultimate answer, just to get you as a client (when the REAL work will start on your behalf). If you have a suspicious lump, would you ask a doctor friend about it at a party, and then rely on that as a final diagnosis?

Again, I know that this does not apply to you, Dianalo, since you already have a lawyer on the case, but I would encourage homeowners in the same situation to spend the money for an hour or two of attorney time (at contract review time ideally), and get the help you need!

How good of you to post this summary. I appreciate that you are frank and not defensive.--F.

I am proceeding with complaints and will probably end up in small claims court.

As for slander, I feel free to state my opinion, based on facts. I'd like to see them argue differently. For it to be slander, it would have to be knowingly untrue (or for it to be reasonable to know it was untrue).

The atty was actually great and gave me tips and a list of what I will need in order to sue them in small claims. He knew pretty quickly that he was not going to be hired because the math did not work out. I asked what he would charge to advise us further, and that would be $1,700 minimum, so not really financially feasible based on what we hope to recover and what we are able to lay out. We are refinancing now to roll both loans into one lower rate, so cash is beyond tight. The darn appraisal came in $50k lower than last Aug, before the work was done! The previous appraisal was high (and we knew it), but this is low. The problem is our house is special now and not like the most recent sales nearby, so it is hard to comp on paper. It is so frustrating.... That means we had to cough up another $17k more than expected. All the banks care about it these days is loan to value. What stinks is we'd be qualified to buy our house in every other way, but the low appraisal is what hurts. If we were buying, we could put down less than 20% but they don't allow one to refi at less than 20% down. Our payment will drop by $550 a month, but that is logic and banks don't operate on logic, lol. So, we have to squeak by and hope that we can close. Once we are closed, we will get money back from the current mtg holders, it is just getting to that point. Dh is a teacher so no pay in the summer and I have a few deals closing in the next few months, just not yet... sigh....

I will make sure to do things in an organized manner. I am taking it slow and steady and will keep at it. I am resigned to not having a finished house for quite some time. I have been trying to make it look less disrupted. Some things will need re-doing and that means packing up some areas again, but I was tired of us not using our house properly and being crowded out of some rooms and looking at fallow construction materials collecting dust. We don't have the cash to do anything yet, so I am focused on things like organizing and unpacking into the kitchen more. If it involves laying out cash, it will have to wait. It is like triage now....

Dianalo--I hope you didn't think I meant you were slandering them. I would just hate for them to try and turn the tables on you and make this even worse for you.

Wishing you all the best
Bee

This story sounds familiar!

For my reno, we had something very similar happen. We got ahead on payments and the GC stopped working on the project (long story. Ask if you want more detail via personal message.) We would up filing with the California State Licensing Board (CSLB), as the GC was bonded and licensed. The CLSB assigned a case manager and an impartial inspector. The inspector surveyed the work done, compared it to the original contracted price, and filed a report with the CSLB. The CSLB sent the case through a MANDATORY arbitration process (this is the way CA handles disputes that are for less than $12.5K). Each side presented their arguments to the arbitrator who then rendered a binding decision.

It was in our favor (of course) and the GC refused to comply with the judgment. We filed against his bond insurance and were reimbursed. He lost his license (and is still contracting, BTW!).

Apparently, NY handles this type of thing at the local level. Try contacting your county and city Building Safety departments. They should be able to help.

Having been there I know exactly how you feel. Not to be a downer, but the next step of finding another contractor to pick up where the first guy left off is no fun either. Contractors, in general, don�t like to take responsibility for the quality of their own work- let alone someone else�s work (which is inevitably what happens in a case like this).

Hang in there and take it to �em (in a real and legally binding sense of the phrase!).

Excellent thread. Maybe it should be part of Beuhl's "Newcomer" post! ;>D

We'll be waiting for a follow-up!

((((thanks for the lemonade recipe, dianalo. Hang in there))))