Your layout looks great to me. I might be tempted to get rid of the prep sink as it takes up your landing space in the refrigerator area but outside of that I don't think I'd change much.

The mantel veersion looks so much nicer that I think it would be well worth forgoing a bit of storage. It looks like you have a fair amount of room there already.

Good Luck !

I love the look of the focal mantel hood with the lowered cabs but functionally it bothers me. I love larege expanse of space next to a range/cooktop. For me, this is one place where function would over-ride form.

Looks to me like you could be doing a lot of running around the island to get to the refrigerator and freezer. They would probably be better placed framing the DR opening, but it doesn't look like you have enough depth there unless you shortened the range wall. Also, the 36" clearance between the side of the frig and the island seems very tight as it looks like that could be a major thoroughfare.

At first glance, to me, if you could shorten up the frig/freezer wall and put the pantries over there, turn the island 90 degrees and move the frig/freezer to where the pantries are, that might be a better set up.

Okay, the fridge orientation just looks weird in the elevation. The one that opens away from the wall is going to be miserable, and you can't use the counter between as a landing space. Surely they're backwards? I saw a gorgeous version of this done in a showroom several years ago, where the coolers were fully panelled and it looked like a big, old fashioned dresser. I tried to fit something like that in my kitchen, but it didn't work. I agree about not having the sink there.

Regarding the range wall, you could do something between the two views. That is, have an integrated hood, but not as wall encompassing as in the first elevation. If you want a mantel look, you might try corbels instead of those heavy pillars which eat the counter.

I much prefer the dishwasher on the left of the sink in your kitchen so it doesn't feel like it's in the way of the upper cabinets and the range. Also, if you want point of use storage for the dishes, you might put them in the fridge zone.

Your aisle behind the sink is a bit minimal. It'll work, and you have alternate routes, but I might sacrifice a few inches from the island, especially as the drawing usually refers to cabinetry rather than tops, so you'll lose another inch or two for the counters.

Basically, I think the mantle view kitchen is prettier, and the other one more liveable. The style of the one with the layout of the other should give you a happy medium. :) One thing I like about the mantle view is that the shape of the casement windows repeats the shape of the shaker style doors, whereas the double hungs in the other view just put a bar at eye level.

I would play with a hybrid of the mantle range wall and the conventional one.

I agree, I think the Fridge-Freezer doorswings are backwards in the drawing. Since paneled fridges are not field reversible, make sure you resolve this before you order:)

You can do the mantel, but keep the end upper cabinets up off the counter...if you want to add them for effect, corbels will help elongate them, visually, without encroaching on counter space.

What worries me most is the path from stove to fridge if you need to add a splash of sauce or milk in the midst of cooking. The fridge is pretty far 'out of the loop' for cooking tasks. The island serves as a barrier for those instances I mentioned, as well as when you want to get veggies, take them to the sink, then to the stove...Lots of maneuvering around it.

It'd be way better, to me, if you could put the fridge and freezer on the dining room wall, and the prep sink on that corner (SE) of the island.

Hello,
These are very nice plans and shaping up to be a great kitchen. But, I have sort of a BIG question, which gets to challenging you to make sure you are using your renovation dollars to their best effect. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like your plans, but I see something else as well and just want to point it out.

I see the area where your refrigerators are as being a little bit disconnected from the rest of the space. I also see the area with the bay window being underutilized (am assuming this is where a table will go, but there again, this might interfere with the island).

Have you considered leaving the dining room wall alone and putting your cash into making the rectangular kitchen space more cohesive? Currently, I see a square with a rectangle tacked on the side... the rectangle doesn't feel integrated as much as it could be. I am thinking if you don't bump into the dining room and just use your big rectangle as the space, possibly making more/better use of the bay window (which will cost money, but there again you are saving by leaving the dining room alone) you might have a more pulled together plan. I would be happy to mess around with it, but don't want to spend the time if it isn't something you would consider... just let me know if you are fairly set on the plan you are working with or if there is room for a fairly revolutionary change.

Also, I am wondering if you follow the work of Mick Deguilio... he is a kitchen designer out of Chicago. I just love what he does and there are elements of what you are presenting above that remind of the spaces I've seen of his (he is in a lot of the kitchen and bath magazines - he had TWO kitchens in the most recent Beautiful Kitchens mag by BHG). You might want to study his work a little and see if there is something of his genius that can be applied to your space.

I am very intrigued by your space and may have to mess around with it even if you are fairly set, just to see if there are other possibilities, although I do think what you currently have would be very nice.

Will keep an eye on your project.

Thanks for all of the help so far! I am really glad for all of the input as I have been to 3 kitchen design places, voiced my ideas and all 3 designers went with it. So I am not really sure if I am getting the best design for my space or a design just to sell cabinets, if you know what I mean.

Here is my current floorplan. The island pictured was a mobile cart which was so small it was non-functional so I removed it. The "Den" is our breakfast room and our table is right where the word den is. I do not like that the bathroom is btwn the kitchen and breakfast room and I do not like that I do not have a "mudroom" area. Among many other issue with this kitchen- lack of counter space, RF opens to block the main traffic flow....

Mamadadapaige- I would LOVE any help or input in redesigning this space. (You may remember I asked you a few weeks ago about your crown point opinions now that you are working with wood mode.) I was not blown away with the CP design and I need as much help as I can get- I am trying to tweek the next plan as best and final as possible for my second price out from CP. It would be great not to move the dining room wall. A few things to keep in mind about that.... The contractor we spoke with said moving the DR wall would prob would be fairly simple- compared to moving the bathroom which includes a load bearing wall and reworking plumbing. I think I have to move the bathroom though- what do you think? I really must have some sort of mud room area- we have 2 small kids, and I must have an island. As large as possible. I was planning to do a window over the sink (and an entire kitchen!!) like yours and erikanh. White cabs with some dark wood cabs thrown in.

General comments:
I would be open to moving the fridge and freezer to the wall next to the dining room, BUT that wall has 15in cabs now. I would like as large an island I can get, plus a mudroom area, desk and 2 big pantries. I know, I want it all! So i think I would need to shrink the island (and mudroom/range wall)- which I am not crazy about. Any thoughts?

Yes, the RF and freezer openings are reversed in the drawing- at least the one on the right. I have gotten differing opinions on how the left RF should open.

I do not want a prep sink, so that is out.

Again, I really appreciate all of your thoughts, opinions, help, critiques, etc! Positive or negative. It's soooo helpful. Thank you!

If you are already stealing space from the DR, it should be simple to steal a few more inches and relocate your fridge wall there... that would m help with the work flow mentioned by many posters above. Having the pantry area removed a bit is not nearly such a big deal. I keep my most-used items in one cabinet within my main work zone, and walk 10 feet to the seperate large pantry area for other stuff. It seems to be working well.

I'd like to know what areas of your home does your family hang out in most. Do you usually use the family room? Do you use the living room too? I gather you're willing to forgo the little den and incorporate it into the rest of the space? For the way I live, I would want my kitchen where the living room is... unless you use your garage for an entrance when you come in with groceries... then that would be an issue.

Remodelfla: I do use the garage for the main entrance. We spend most of our time in the living room and the family room- which is really a sunporch converted into a playroom. I am planning to move the bathroom near the garage and make the den and kitchen 1 larger room.

Stacyneil: as for moving the DR wall, in the current I would have to take off about 3 ft from the DR to accomodate the RF on this wall. That would make the DR about 11 ft wide. Too narrow?

I think you're right about moving the powder room. It's very awkward having it between the kitchen and breakfast room.

Question: Have you considered squeezing it into the foyer? By the back door, you're actually devaluing it. It's great for kids running in from the yard there, but it means that company must go through the kitchen, or go upstairs. I'd take one of the closets in the foyer, and even steal a piece of the living room for it. That also solves the running from the family room issue.

If you did that, you could move the door from the mudroom area and put the coolers on the dining room wall. And you might be able to do a desk nook in the mudroom area--I'm not sure if there would be room, but I'd try to get the desk out of the kitchen proper. We see lots of reports of people not using their kitchen desks as anything but places to pile junk. I think some of that is the feng shui of it. In an active, lively, physical work area, sitting quietly at a desk, with your back to the work, just doesn't flow. Some people like standup desks in the kitchen for that, but I put a desk armoire in my living room to get all the mail, etc., out of the kitchen and still not have to show it to company. To me, papers just don't go with food prep.

The door from the living room into the breakfast room certainly improves the flow. I like it best where you show it as a doorway, rather than an over large opening. With a pocket door, or even double pocket doors, it makes it easy to shut away the working/casual part of the house. Much more relaxing if you can sit and enjoy your family or company after dinner, rather than see clean-up waiting for you.

I'm not sure I understand the "must have an island" considering how much you've already found a small island to be in the way and not useful. Can you explain what functions you want the island to serve?

But it might be that if you can move the coolers and have shallower pantries in the BR that you can do a longer island parallel to the sink instead of cross ways. (I'm not good at estimating distances without a grid.)

I'm a little confused, maybe it's just me. Is the kitchen losing width so it lines up with the outside PR wall? Have you considered squaring off the bay window, extending current PR(that is moving) so it all lines up with the outside wall of the kitchen?

I agree with plllog, PR would be better in the foyer. It's a long walk from your LR and FR if the PR is over by the garage?

I wouldn't worry about powder room location. Ours is there, too, and it isn't a problem. It might not be optimal, but it doesn't look like you have room to put one in the foyer anyway.

I also agree with plllog about locating powder room in a public space vs. your private family space.

also, I have the same concern as malhgold about the kitchen losing width. At a minimum I'd keep the width in the current kitchen even if you can't bump out where the den windows and current powder room are.

I started working on this last night... very exciting plan with a lot of possibilities. I hope to help you, but KNOW you will be helped by the layout experts on this board.

Also, here is the Mick DeGiulio image that sort of reminded me of your fridge/freezer set up (really just a nuance). I like how he built it in.

{{gwi:1925612}}
This is just for grins - its about the best I can make out of the space.

I wonder if you've looked at tucking the powder room where I have the cleanup area - behind the stairs. Do a little thing that doubles up for a study/tea for two area - maybe with a pair of big upholstered chairs? Then kitchen at around 14'6" by 15'9"?

Wow!! Great feedback so far. I am posting 2 more blueprints b/c I think I was very confusing before.

The green crosshatches are where the "new" proposed eat in kitchen will go with the option of removing 2 ft from the dining room. I really would love to have the bathroom in the front, but... according to the architect, I could not get a bath to code in the space. I also think it would really detract from the symmetry of my foyer and living room. As for losing width, I would lose 5 ft with the new bath but gain about 5 ft by losing the old bath and changing layout from a U to an L. I also don't mind people coming through my kitchen to use the bath. I am sure I will only want to hang out in the kitchen once its done :o)

I do not currently have an opening from the kitchen/breakfast room into the living room. I have 2 small children and find it very difficult to keep any sort of watch on them and cook. So I would like to open up the kitchen area into the LR. The current opening from the foyer into the LR is 5 feet wide, so I was thinking to mirror that with th kitchen. LOVE Pllog's pocket door idea here. How wide do you think the opening should be?

I really must have an island. A big area for prep and such. We often have 3 adults in the kitchen at once with 2 little ones running around. The current kitchen island was pathetic- really too small for function, on wheels so it moves, and just disrupted and crowded the flow. But I think with an improved kitchen layout, an island would be great.

Mama, I love that fridge pic. I will look at it- just not sure the freezer width is enough, but I need to see it in person. I have a 36" SZ side by side now and I hate it. The freezer storage layout is awful!!! But if I feel it would be adeqaute, it would make sense. Here is an insiration pic I have that got me thinking of the separate RF/ Fr. But I am open to looking at that 48" SZ. Let me know if you think its better for my space.

Thanks again to everyone!!!!

That's the HEIGHT - somewhere between 3 to 4 feet tall. Someday, I will learn how to write!

Fast sketch of moving the powder room.
{{gwi:1925616}}

bmorepanic, thanks for the mockup. I love the idea of a large kitchen, the banquette and the counterspace. But I can not look past the feng shui of looking at the bathroom from either the kitchen, dinette or living room. I need it more private. I also need more of a mudroom off the garage.

I think where people were talking about losing width in the kitchen is where the little notch in where the PR is now seems to be the outer line now, and doesn't go back out again from the bow window in the new kitchen line. Does that make sense?

A 5' opening to the LR sounds good but you probably can't go that large with pocket doors. You're limited by how much room you have for them to slide into. If that's a load bearing wall, you might have to thicken it as well, so that the doors run along the studs, or else do the whole beam and post thing. 3.5'-4' might work just as well on a functional basis, though I get the quest for symmetry. OTOH, you might like it narrower than the foyer opening anyway, because it helps define the difference between your formal space and family space. Even if you have a casual lifestyle, it's nice to be able to do that.

how about moving that bathroom 'cube' in the far upper right of 'kitchen' down to the top left of the DR (on the kitchen side of wall) across from the stairway in the foyer - with door opening off of the foyer hallway?

your fridge/frzr should fit in the lower right corner of the kitchen (up against DR wall). you'll have the back wall for sink and stove, room for an island and can have a wall of hutch or other cabs in the eating area (where you prev had fridge/frzr).