Plywood vs engineered wood cabinet boxes

11 years ago

I've been busy getting some quotes from 4 different kitchen designers. All have the same basic layout with wall cabinets to the ceiling. I think I have narrowed down to 2. One is Debut Cabinetry and the other is Mid Continent. The Debut price is upgraded with 1/2" plywood construction. The Mid Continent is engineered wood. If I upgrade with them to plywood, it would only be 3/8". I picked these 2 because of the door styles and finishes. There is about a $3500 difference with Debut the lowest.

This is the higher quote with Mid Continent, $9534 installed. I really like this but I would need to shorten the sink wall side cabinets. It's a little to far into the dining room. Easy reach cabinets on wall and base corners, which I like.

{{!gwi}}

This is Debut Cabinetry, $6071 installed. I would like to lengthen the sink wall side by about 3" and also the bar by about 3". He has a 6" overhang on the end of the bar which I don't need. Lazy Susan in the base corners.

{{!gwi}}

I would appreciate feedback on these layouts and the plywood vs engineered wood.

Thank you for all your help so far.

Featured Answer

Farbuncle

11 years ago

Plywood around the sink for sure. Mid Continent is a top rated company. Have not heard of Debut Cabinetry.

My design was ripped to shredds by the professional who then came up with a far better one.

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Comments (6)

hags00
11 years ago
To save money, moving from plywood to engineered wood boxes is one of the first steps I would take. If money is an issue, spend it where you will enjoy it.

My cabinets are coming in this week and I chose engineered wood boxes for that very reason.
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> "furniture board" AKA mdf MDF and furniture board are not the same thing. In cabinetry, you will find furniture board used for the carcase and MDF used for door panels. MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) is a homogeneous board made from wood fibers. Furniture board is the same thing as "particle board" (known as "chipboard" outside North America), and is made from larger wood chips. Particle board comes in many grades, from outrageously shoddy through very good; quality cabinets use the very good stuff. People get way too hung up on the supposed virtues of plywood over furniture board. In reality, with appropriate construction methods and proper installation, either can be used to create cabinets that will last decades. The biggest real-world difference I can think of is weight - plywood is significantly lighter than furniture board; upper cabinets made of plywood are easier to install.
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I seem to have gotten confused on the Shenandoah construction thicknesses. For one, sides are 1/2". So disregard whatever I noted if you're considering this line. Funny, I'm looking over these nearly 40 year old junkers that are still standing. They were even uninstalled and shuffled around 30 years ago. The cheap wood grained laminate doors had been replaced. The sides and back seem to be a 1/4" particle board type product. Some of it also looks like luan but is painted and might be particle board. One shelf is loose and I can see the particles on the box side. Particle board 3/4" shelves chipping along the edge but strong. It seems to be solid 3/4" framing for the faces and hanging rail. They are still standing and doing their job! The side panel on the sink base has popped out and it's really bad construction otherwise. The boxes were painted and doors replaced so they don't look as bad as all that. The painted raised panel replacement doors have held up well for nearly 30 years. They look to be solid wood. The only real damage to the finish is on the raised panel edge of the two drawer fronts under the counter. They've lost finish and are chippy because the counter's drip edge doesn't project out far enough. I'm very surprised to see that situation on a lot of store display installations. The cabinets are just about even with the 25" counter edge. That's bad news for finishes. I'll be getting 26" counters for a good drip edge to protect the finish below. Right, the finish will probably not last 30 years and I'll have to deal with repainting whatever I get. I doubt the stains these days hold up that long either. A lot of them look layered and baked on like the paints to me. But hopefully the cabinets themselves will be decently built and still holding together well. I don't know why that would change unless someone was hanging on the doors or overloading areas with very heavy items, as livewire mentioned. The older builder type homes from 40-50 years or so ago seem to get there. They can just look dated at this point. Maybe they all do this but Shenandoah is calling their mdf type cabinets 'engineered wood' which I think is misleading since it makes it sound like standard construction is plywood.
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It shouldn't necessarily be possible from a couple feet away to tell whether a given board is veneered or solid. Edge banding is typically a disaster waiting to happen and should be avoided at all costs. MDF panels, if you go that way, can be edged with solid wood, a much more robust solution. With solid wood every board is different, and care and attention has to be paid to color and grain matching. (With factory-made cherry cabinets this is frequently, and glaringly not done, then the differences are badly disguised with stain). Plywood will typically be more uniform and free from sapwood. The style of door is the primary consideration. Frame and panel doors with raised panel have to be made from solid wood, Slab doors can be done either way. Frame and panel doors, if properly made from well seasoned wood almost never warp. Slab doors will be more prone to change shape with changes in humidity. Some pieces of plywood move more than solid in my experience, other less, and sadly I don't know how to predict which is which in advance. Veneer comes in a myriad of forms, either rotary cut or sliced, The sliced veneer can be laid up in random, repeating, or bookmatched patterns to achieve the look you want. A specialty plywood supplier will have all of these options available for a common veneer like cherry. A cabinet maker can also make shop-made veneer to exactly match solid wood parts, assuming he has the sequential boards cut from the same log to permit precise matching. There's no end to how crazy you can get if you're really fussy about color and grain in cherry!
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User
11 years ago
Mid Continet ranks 3 points above industry average in JD Powers survey for remodelers and contractors, but do bear in mind that contractors have different high points to hit when it comes to cabinetry than consumers do. Consumers are much more concerned with quality. Contractors are much more concerned with the appearance of quality. Consumers are not nearly as kind to Mid Continent.

And, quality engineered wood beats crappy plywood any day.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mid Continent Reviews
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vlovil
Original Author
11 years ago
The KD that did the design with Mid Continent also carries Wellborn Cabinets. I could get a price on those also.

Thank you for your input.
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bmorepanic
11 years ago
Couple of small things - take them or leave them as you like. It's always good to remember that we don't know what you mean, have never seen your house, never seen enough measurements and are mostly guessing!

It would be better to always have the ref in the position shown in the second drawing. Counterdepth is just about never counterdepth - the refs are mostly 28" to 30" deep.

Either drawing could have almost 48" of pantry in various configurations opposing the peninsula. With a 48" wide pantry, you could consider decreasing the depth to 18" (use tall bath cabinets) or even 12" deep and assemble it out of wall cabinets. Or use full depth bases under almost to the counter wall cabinets - leaving just enough space for favored canisters or a drawer underneath.

Altho I would happily use deep rollouts if I didn't have any other choice for a pantry, they aren't my favorites and in this case would also block the aisle. I think the doors would not only block a person trying to enter, but also block them from trying to close the rollouts to be able to close the door.

I would seriously consider trimming another 3 inches from the peninsula if I didn't lower the depth of the opposing pantry. It's hard to have somebody cruising the pantry without completely blocking the aisle.

I would flip the dishwasher to the other side of the sink. When people clean up at the same time others may be cooking, that particular position is annoying.

In this kitchen, I'd likely try to prep on the sink side of the range. Just personal taste and ways of working, I'd likely use an angled base in the corner plus slide the range a bit more towards the doorway - like use a 18"-24" cabinet where the first drawing has a 33". In my eyes, I'd have a place to work and a place to "pile up" ingredients ready to go and those that haven't been prepped on either side. The peninsula would be too far away for me to use daily, but a good place for the coffee pot, toaster etc.

I am trying and failing to understand why 3" can't be added. But the window wall lengths in the drawings are different by 11 inches. That's definitely something to investigate. I also don't understand the concern about the length of space from the peninsula to the dining room.
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cabinetsbyalan
11 years ago
I am a custom cabinet maker and build mostly frame less cabinetry. I use 3/4" material for my cabinets. After many years building out of both engineered wood and plywood I generally build all of my cabinets out of plywood at this point. Plywood makes a much better shelf when shelf is 30" or more in length.
However a solid wood shelf out performs a plywood shelf and engineered wood shelf. Plywood is better for sink cabinets. I think engineered wood with a melamine coating is a tougher finish than plywood with clear finish. When showing customer plywood and engineered wood, they generally choose plywood. I would rather work with plywood, it is lighter and less dusty when cutting.
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Plywood vs engineered wood cabinet boxes

Farbuncle

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Plywood vs engineered wood cabinet boxes

Farbuncle

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hags00

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bmorepanic

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vlovil
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