There's a gray area and even though trisha was clearly spamming, it might have slipped by with little notice if she had not proclaimed so arrogantly about her decorating expertise.
That has a lot to do with it!
The woman in France with the blog, well, she got slammed too but not quite so virulently. And I wish she had stayed around.

Oops, I just linked my tile guy's website for someone who wanted his info. Is that spamming? Is it any different than linking to BM or other commercial sites? I didn't realize it might be against the rules, or is it just self promotion that is spam?

Here's my two cents - it comes down to intent on the part of the person posting.

If the intent of the person posting is to induce others to do something (visit a personal blog or business website, vote toward winning a prize, etc.), then clearly, the forum rules have been violated. Remember, many blog and website owners earn money indirectly from clicks on Google ads and page views. Visitor purchases are not necessarily required for a site or blog to profit. And, increased visitors = increased page rankings in the search engines, so getting traffic could be an indirect benefit as well.

On the other hand, if the intent of the person posting is to seek out advice, provide examples or ideas, or link to a relevant topic-related site (commercial or not), with no intent toward personal gain, the spirit of the forum rules has not been violated.

Sometimes it's difficult to determine the intent of another party, and I'm sure it's possible to misconstrue intent as well. Ignorant mistakes are certainly possible. But, again, I think the spirit of the forum rules is generally derived from intent on the part of the poster.

Well said Jan. I just deleted most of what I typed.

"if she had not proclaimed so arrogantly about her decorating expertise."
I agree. Why not use the gift and help people on the board who have actual questions.

Olychick - Maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel as though that's spamming. It wasn't your site and someone wanted the info.

Unsolicited self-promotion is spam. Offering a link that someone specifically requests is not spam. Some sites would ask you to email or PM the info though.

Think of it as advertising versus editorial. Marketers try to hide an ad behind opinion but better to rely on a source you trust than one, random forum post. Would you buy Charmin b/c Mr. Whipple told you to or would you feel better if Walter Cronkite and 15 regular posters from here did?

My .02: Posting your own website or blog for direct or indirect financial gain is spamming IMO. An individual recruiting votes for a contest is not spamming, again, IMO. And posting an unaffiliated business is ok if it is helpful to the forum. I think part of the difference is commercial vs. an individual and whether your business or a friend's/relative's business stands to gain anything monetary as a result.

Here's my understanding.

Recommending a specific product or service in which you have no financial interest but with which you have some experience, in response to a specific request or problem from another poster, is good.

Posting with the specific intent to entice someone to a site in which you do have a financial interest, whether it is something you are selling, or your own site on which you benefit from hits, is spamming, and is not good.

Posting links with the specific goal of sticking cookies in my computer to gain market information, or to gain access to my e-mail address, is phishing, and is worse than not good.

Handing out stock advice willy nilly is legal but annoying.

So here's how it works for me. Like a lot of the regular posters here, I'm here a lot when I have the time...I have a fair amount of experience and a boxcar full of opinions, and I do this for fun, because I miss that aspect of the design trade. But I keep my professional life and identity private. It is very tempting to try to turn whatever reputation I may have earned for myself here into a growth opportunity for my business, particularly in financially trying times, but in my view it's just wrong. So I don't do it, simply because life on the high road is sweeter. It's a path on which I have a lot of company here.

The other stuff? We may not always be able to describe it, but we usually know it when we see it, and we certainly know it when we've stepped in it!

I like to think of these forums as someone's dining table we've all gathered at to drink coffee (or whatever), chat, and share ideas, photos, and expertise about decor. Better yet, we are all gathered at the local 'it' place---like a Starbucks--because it's very public. Most of us visit the table frequently and others get to know us. Some folks just pop by, stand and ask a question or two and jet off, never to be seen again...

Occasionally one of us regular types will have something to sell or advertise, but it comes up in conversation instead of by way of advertising.

It's when someone slams through the door and interrupts our conversation with a blatant sales pitch that we get our knickers in a twist.

Come in. Be a part of the group. Participate. Then, if by showing us your beautiful paint job or pretty mirror we find out you own a restaurant that delivers all over the country (grin) or you run an artist's retreat or even have a fancy local decor shop, then so be it.

The point is...be a part of the group first. Contribute. Showing-off for the sake of selling me something is uncool.

happyintexas -
What a great way of saying it.

I agree with the general consensus here on what is and is not spam.

Where I do not agree with many on the board, not specifically upthread mind you, is the arena of the contests. I find it almost worse to come here asking for votes than to come here, naively or not, looking for business. Posting links for a business or blog shows a total lack of regard for the Terms & Conditions, but marketing is what makes the world go round and marketing, in and of itself, is not unethical. IMO, coming to the board to ask for votes borders on the unethical.

I used to live in a city that was home to a finalist on one of those TV shows. There were billboards in town that admonished us townsfolk to "Call In and Vote for Whatshername!" I though that was just wrong. (Boy, I'm no fun, am I?) I mean, this TV thing was a talent contest, not a popularity contest, right? I heard of Whatshername's friends spending hours on the phone doing the dial-a-vote thing. The American way? Popular wins? I dunno...it bugs me.

I will never vote for someone who has come here looking for votes unless I actually think he or she is clearly better than the rest, and that hasn't happened yet. It's bad karma and I think that history has borne this out, at least once in recent memory.

Bronwynsmom, "...and we certainly know it when we've stepped in it!" LOL!!! So true!

I had no idea referring a blog for some one to go look at was or could be bordering on Spam. I am pretty new to blogs. Will be more careful on that.

On the other hand if I were sending some one to look at a blog it would have been because there was some form of decoration I wanted them to see. I am not sure it is allowed to steal a blog picture and post here either. Any one else know the answer to that?

YIKES this does create a fine line some times. I know some blogs have the advertising on the sides. I figured that part out thanks to this thread here. Some blogs are just total eye candy too. And some here even have their own blogs. I am really going to try to be careful about "Stepping it it".

Chris

Rarely do I open links to posted blogs, but I think I posted a link to a blog recently that I had learned about from another post here. I shared the link because it seemed totally pertinent to the question, but I have no idea whether the blogger is compensated by hits. Likely so, it seems from the conversation here, so I shan't do it again.

Ethics is waning, unfortunately, and too many posts seem to be self-promoting. Trisha57, according to her previous posts, is the owner of the B&B so perhaps that's why her eye post (which I missed) was deleted as spam. IMO her complaint in Olychick's first thread about her bathroom windows was rude and likely off-putting to someone who may be already hesitant about posting a concern in the first place. Fortunately, Olychick was undaunted, though she reposted her question under "short & sweet" which should not have been necessary. Perhaps that's why Trisha's subsequent posts the other night led to some hilarious rebuttals, though I can understand why some didn't share this sentiment.

Bronwynsmom is right; life is so much better if we play nice.

Ok, I wrote my thoughts this morning without submitting but left for appointments. It just posted when I opened my computer upon return. Now I see more in another thread on Trisha and a lot more responses to the OP here.

Although I truly feel we should be careful about discouraging or disparaging others who post questions, I certainly don't want to pile on anyone. So mea culpa!

Well, darn, I went to bed without checking in here until this afternoon and the "eye" post is gone.
Yes, A.blessings, I felt she was rude and off-putting. When the light bulb moment hit me that this was so very similar to her post of awhile (years?) back, I was astounded the same effort to advertise would be made. Now it's pulled and I'm wondering if anyone responded re. the earlier post/ad? Did Trish57 come back to defend herself?
But as for spamming: Ya know, her home is pretty, not the average spamming type of site. I'm not a huge stickler for rules,or the first to point a finger. I doubt I'd have responded were it not for her unattractive( kindly put) attitude. No different than the old maxim: "It's not what you say, it's how you say it", which is probably one of the greatest truths of our time.

I'm sorta with Amysrq. When people we've never heard of show up out-of-the blue, oooooh-ing & aaaahh-ing, telling us all that they want to share a Wonderful New Website full of Beautiful Desinger Pillows--that the poster just happened to come across--that's spam.

When somebody links to her blog because it's easier making a link to one of her old blog-posts that explains in detail how to gold-leaf your refrigerator than it is to type it out all over again for the benefit of somebody who just asked how to do it, well, I don't have a problem with that. Even if her website or her blog is selling something--well, as long as it's not selling gold leaf--I don't have a problem. I'm all for labor-saving devise, (especially if the labor saved is my own) so why not just add a link?

Sure, aside from re-typing it all, there's also the old cut-&-paste approach, but even that can be more trouble than it's worth, especially if text needs to be re-formatted, or if there are pictures involved that need to be copied into a third-party storage site, then linked to the response here. I don't alsways have time for all that, and I'd rather not even answer than jump through all those hoops, especially if, by adding a link to my post, I could make the same info available to others with a single click over to my blog.

Besides, there are a bunch of us here who have blogs or websites that, although we never link to them, are still clearly ours. Is that consideerd 'spamming?' Just using the same name here as there? If so, I'm outta here. And that would be a total loss for everybody, because whether or not we who have those other sites make money from them--either directly, through things to purchase, or via 'hits' & the indirect revenue that they allegedly generate--it never hurts to have experienced professional viewpoints on a forum like this. Especially if they're free. Like they say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Anyway, I think the whole thing comes down to motive.

And, yes, it's heard to read people's minds--or hearts--but the laughably obvious, self-promoting tone of most flash-in-the-pan commercial site spammers is what gives them away, anyway, not so much the link itself. Those I can ignore. It's the assumption on those folks' part that we're all a bunch of gullible mopes that can't see right through them is what offends me.

Even so, I find spamming less offensive than begging for votes. I entered a contest at Apartment Therapy a few years ago, and although it would have been cool to win, it never occurred to me to come over here & announce that I was in a contest, ask everybody to vote for me three times a day, every day, then whine about how somebody else was playing dirty, the way one popular contestant did last year. I'm sorry, that was whiny & pathetic, no matter how badly that person wanted to win. I don't have a TV, so all my refereneces are way ancient, but that person's behavior reminded me of the girl with the blonde ringlets on Little House on the Prairie. What a brat. At any rate, I didn't even make the top ten in the AT contest, but at least I can say I lost--fair & square!

No, as long as they aren't blatant schemers, I don't have a problem with links to people's own sites.

I have a blog about color and I post links to the posts and articles I've written - when it's relevant. Posting links is actually kind of a PITA on this archaic forum but when it matters, it matters so it's worth the extra steps.

So, while I might be condemned by some for posting a link to my own blog, at least I've never taken any of my forum friends on as a client. If someone emails me from the forums and I know them as a fellow forum member, we just chat thru email like we'd chat on the forum. I really don't even know how many people I've chatted with either via email or on the phone but it's been a lot and it's been fun! Truth is, people who can afford and need to hire me don't hang out decorating forums. My clients are very much a separate demographic. Reading this thread, it's interesting how some people can find a way to justify whatever it is they want to justify tho.

Additionally, many people have found me "funcolors" FIRST and THEN found their way HERE based on a search for me, "funcolors". Eventually clicking their way thru the rest of *my color world* which is voluminous and complex. I've been funcolors going on SEVEN years. I've written over 20,000 posts exclusively about paint, color, and design. At this point, odds are good that searches about anything architectural paint and color will pop up a link to something I've written.

I don't make excuses and I'm not justifying squat. It's really very simple for me. If I have something written and illustrated on my blog and it is clear to me that material answers a direct question here, I post a link to it. GW has plenty of direct content from me at this point. Adding a cut-n-paste from my blog would be a drop in the bucket any way. Why should I re-type or cut-n-paste the whole thing - it's just pointless.

Just like I'd post a link to ANY OTHER SOURCE that I know has relevant material to the OP's question. It's ridiculous to think that it's okay for me to post links to anything and everything - that is relevant - but just because it's a store-house of info that I created, my blog, it's not "ethical". What a crock o'sh1t.

Forums are social media. Anonymous really isn't as cool or respected or dignified as one might think. It's 2010 and what you do for a living is often inextricably tied to WHO you are. And being genuine and authentic online and in person is important to a lot of people. It's important to me at least.

Color is what I do, and yeah, it's very much permeated every facet, every corner of my life - it is who I am.

Lastly, as I've said before. I think many, many people are misinformed and disillusioned about how blogs "make money" off of clicks and ads. There are very few blogs that are profitable. Most bloggers spend far more of their own money to launch and maintain the blog than they will EVER make back.

But no one cares about actual data. It's totally a one-way street with blogging and content on the www in general. What is expected, what everyone feels entitled to is totally, completely FREE, no-strings-attached information and content to consume and use as they wish. Most important, is no strings of obligation attached, not even to post a comment in response or say thank you.

No, if you're in this for profit, adulation, or gratification -- to attach strings -- you need to get over yourself because you will be disappointed.

"Reading this thread, it's interesting how some people can find a way to justify whatever it is they want to justify tho."

Think I need to clarify that comment. I am specifically referencing the most recent forum event that I think started this topic. Not anything or anyone who posted on THIS thread.

I think the distinction I was trying to make is between people like funcolors and magnaverde, who graciously share their considerable professional knowledge here for free, whether or not we are aware of the other things they do on line (and who never mention it unless is it particularly germane to the issue at hand); and the people who do not give value to the forum, but just see it as a network of new sources for revenue.

I don't mention my business because it is not directly related to the topics of the forum. If it were, I would not hesitate to refer people to information I had already made available somewhere else. We can argue all night about whether or not anyone ever offers anything to anyone else without expectation of some kind of reward, in whatever form it takes, but I think it is possible to understand impatience with the illusion of helpfulness as a form of marketing.

This forum is more of a kitchen table, and I was thinking today about how we all feel when we are invited to lunch or cocktails at someone's house, only to discover that it is a merchandising party selling cookware or knives or some sort of magical health fruit beverage from Central Dudekistan. That's the kind of disingenuousness that I was on about earlier.

Hey, y'all, please, please keep posting blog posts (especially your own) I enjoy learning from them!

Also, as a person who once dreamed of blogging for dollars...I made squat from my google adsense ads...Squat. Blogging, more often than not, is a labor of love for most folks.

Okay, I'm scooping all the crumpled napkins, dirty glasses/cups, and crumbs off our virtual kitchen table. Will someone sweep up underneath while I get a fresh round of drinks for everyone?

Here's to a long, happy season of decorating conversation!

I love the kitchen table analogy, and picturing happyintexas sweeping up after us:>) Can someone please give me a brief summary of what went on after I posted? The only thing worse than being a thread killer is being the last poster before it's pulled...was I?

Magnaverde, I think her name was "Nellie Oleson". :-)

It was all very hard to follow, leahcat. Pretty sure you were not the last one. Channeling Yoda would be easier than following those threads if ya ask me. i.e. Nucking futs whole thing I tell you.

Bronwynsmom, Central Dudekistan? How do you come up with this stuff? rotfl. :)

Leahcate - you were the last one. I was second to last. I saw the thread in the morning before it was pulled and no one else commented after you. I must say that I normally shy sway from controversy, but found the whole spamming thing bothersome enough that I had to post. It's all over now.

Just coming back to thank funcolors and southernfrenchie for taking the time to answer my query...appreciate it!

I think there is a lot of gray area here. Some folks are allowed to blatantly solicit business and others aren't. Some can link to their blogs and websites and some aren't. It is confusing to me and others, but having been expelled for linking to my board once, I just do my best to avoid anything personal. I guess it is OK to link to any business as long as it isn't your own, well that is how the rules read to me, but think they are open to interpretation. Spamming happens on every board...but the trish57 is the funniest spam I have ever read...it made me LOL.

So many good responses. I agree with so much already said. Vampiressrn comment that "I think there is a lot of gray area here" is very much to the point. If I tell a poster that I also have a bed in the corner, and I link to my blog photo, and the blog has an advertisement for smelling salts, one person might feel that it's a ploy for smelling salts sales, and one might just see it as a helpful link.

Given that, I don't think most of us are patrolling for spam, or getting all up in it over posts with links or blog links. When other posters start labeling something as "spam" it usually is.

And if I have a website called Redbazel and you click on it, that's on you. Doesn't mean my posting with the same screen name I've used for 10 years is spam. If I post that I HAVE a website, and you email me to ask about it, that is also on you. Doesn't mean I tried to dredge up hits to my website.

Now, I'm glad that the votes thing got brought up. While I don't think anyone here had any bad motives when they asked for ugliest kitty votes, or pinkest cheek votes or dancing with penguin votes, I don't really think the decorating forum is the place for this. If you want to call your friends and solicit votes, I guess that's ok. But I really think that votes should also be based on real feelings. So if I click on the "Vote for MY recliner!!" thread and I find that Magnaverde's recliner is in a Glen plaid and I truly love some anonymous recliner in gray velvet, it's annoying to see all the votes go to MV just because he happens to be an outstanding GW poster instead of to the anon. owner of the very pretty gray velvet. It skews the voting process. If it's popularity votes you want, My vote is for MV. If we are Really voting for nice recliners, I'm going to check the box next to the velvet with the feather headrest and the built-in remote.

Red

**No blogs, so don't hunt for them!!

Nice posts, Funcolors and Red. I don't have a blog, but I do write for one. I do it because I enjoy it. I don't profit. I've been here longer than there, and I've been b@nned from here for posting link to said blog. But when I complained to GW about a blog owner that obviously makes a living from their blog was always not only posting links to their blog, but starting threads leading to their blog and allowed, why wasn't I?!! Equal rights and all! So, GW let me back on with a warning not to start threads, so I don't. I post here often, but not as often as I used to. If someone is asking about a subject that has been written about, I will post a link to the blog (that I write for, in case you are lost. ;) ) It's easier than repeating and imo, the blog is full of gorgeous photos and excellent advice/articles. ;D

To the person that brought up the French lady, it was me that lead her here. Her blog is the first one I read each day. Tongue in Cheek, Corey Amaro. She is amazing.

I don't know what the answer is for forums and message boards, Allison.

I empathize with their position. But the landscape of social media has changed while many of the forums have not. The belief is everything can remain as it has been - rules and TOS and disciplining members via banning and whatnot. I suspect a bit of denial, dunno. I do know a significant evolution has occurred and the price of not keeping up and evolving could be rather high to online communities.

There was a time when there was nothing but "chat room" type environments on the www. So, forums were able to set up rules and TOS and ban people, send them to Disney or whatever. It's their sandbox and they had the autonomy to enforce firm rules. Lose one member and there's still thousands left to carry on conversations.

Now, there are a million other places competing for participants. Online destinations perfectly willing to accept dangerously rogue and outcast link-sharers like Allison. Yes, our own allison0704, who boldly stands on the edge and isn't afraid to post links to uber wild and crazy blogs like Corey Amaro's and Attic Mag founded by journalistic design maven, Jane Frieman a.k.a. rococogurl.

And just maybe those places have better infrastructure for posting photos, creating albums, making comments, sharing links, personal profiles with avatars, and more.

GW meet brink, brink. . . GW.