In the first plan you have left yourself no longer pieces of counter for baking, etc. I love the pantries across from the table and would do the same on the garage side of the fridge, but leave the counter from the ovens to the sink as counter with uppers. Maybe have a diagonal cabinet there for a full lazy susan and so that the corner next to the tall ovens isn't like a dark, hard to reach into cave.

On second thought, I might have the cabinets on the wall with the oven run down to the counter, all the way to the window wall, but keep the cabinets with their backs to the window wall up...Similar to an option I drew up for my sister that I'm posting below, but with your base cab and oven on the adjacent wall. That cabinet that tucks under could be a good appliance garage for the mixer (if you want to hide it), a place for cookbooks, or other things.

The corner pantry still looks OK to me, too. You can't really beat a walk-in pantry...At least in my opinion. Additionally, your sink wall is very attractive and with the ovens instead of the wider pantries, you do get a nice workspace between the oven stack and range.

I'd sacrifice the counter on the other side, next to the fridge, instead, and put in a full height pantry cabinet.

Corners are just never as useful as you think they're going to be.

I don't have a great picture of ours, but here's one from when we were building the kitchen -- the big empty spot is where the fridge goes.

Here is a link that might be useful: our pantry

Is there a lot of traffic in and out to the garage? If it isn't used more than ours (we have another side door that we use most), I would put the ovens next tothe fridge and open up that counter space near both the large appliances.

Perhaps the one place Rhome and I do have the strongest different thoughts in on pantries, but that may be because we have very different spaces. I have had terrible cabinet ones, but I have also had 2 out of 2 walk-ins that were enticing when the house was empty, but turned out badly when in use. I think she has at least twice the real estate that I do for her kitchen use (and twice the people, so that is good). In that large space and with a small pantry room, I might love it too. The corner pantry was not good for us.

I think your wall pantry cabinets will work well, but do it right and put in pull outs if they are more than 12-13 inches deep. Even at 15-16" deep, you start loosing things behind whatever is in front and having to dig. Pantry cabinets work very well if you make them shallow or have rollouts and pullouts to make everythign accessible. BTW, we have a 24" with rollouts and a 12" pullout pantry tower. It's less sapce than many give for their pantry, but it sure holds a lot and stays organized.

Also, it looks like you have glass doors in the oven cabinet. I wouldn't do glass above or below ovens -- I don't really want to look at my stach of bakeware and the odds pieces that fit below my oven. I also wouldn't want to draw attention dow to the floor under the oven.

Lascatx- the garage door gets significant use--that must be a bad thing in this plan, but can you tell me what it is?

Hi Rhome-

I thought I had to have a landing space adjacent to the frig. But it is a good idea to make that wall all pantry. Is the same true if I move the oven next to the frig-- no need for a landing space (and use the counter on the opposite side of the garage?).

I could keep the 1st plan and move the oven below the counter (in the same spot) which would open up that end.
Maybe that is the trade-off I need? Hmm....

The glass in the oven is only because I couln't change it, in fact the mw will be on top of the oven in this plan.

Do you need a walk-in pantry? you have lots of storage space and also your kitchen is so close to the garage, is it possible to steal some extra storage in the garage if necessary? You might be able to do with couple of tall pantries. Not sure if you can move the refrigerator, but if you can. another option is to move it next to the dishwasher and free up that wall for tall shallow pantries.
Also on a diff note, if possible you might want to think about centering your range with equal length of counter on both sides, that way the wall cabinets on either side of the hood will give a symmetrical look.

Looking at the plan, it seems you can safely open the garage door without hitting the open oven door, so I could support moving the oven there, too and using the counter across as landing zone for both....But there'd have to be enough counter without the uppers down to it?

I tried to address and say good things about both plans, because I do like both kinds of pantries. I just have my first ever walk-in pantry and I really like it, and have always wanted one based on a few wonderful and helpful pantries in friends' and sisters' homes.

What I haven't liked is the pullouts I've had. I have none in my new kitchen and don't miss them...They cost extra and use space, and I had things fall off of them. (maybe the sides on mine were too short) In our last house my 'pantry' was full ht, open (no doors) cabinets...about 4 ft wide and I think they were 2 ft deep. I could see and reach into them well enough not to find the need for pullouts. Maybe it was because the shelves weren't spaced too closely. Anyway I loved it and found it very valuable. The reason I like my walk in pantry is for bigger items, the things I want to set on the floor (like my rolling containers for bulk items and pet food), and brooms, etc. If necessary, extra and large items can sit on the floor until there's room elsewhere. It's more flexible than a cabinet pantry would be for me, and I like opening one door and seeing/accessing everything rather than checking several cabinet doors. It depends on what you want to store...

Really, I can see pluses to both plans you have, and like what happens to the layout and use of counter when the ovens are moved in the wall pantry plan. And since a plan from long ago, I preferred pantry cabs across from the table over working, hot appliances.

Can the door to the garage swing into the garage? Mine does.

Cook1, I hope you're still around. I thought of you when I saw this thread today. Would a pantry like vicnsb found help you at all?

Here is a link that might be useful: Vicnsb's post with gorgeous pantry

Hi Rhome,
Thanks for the note--I missed the thread. I'm back to working on my plan, again--but am back to the more open plan.

Before reading this thread on pantries, I thought I was set--I created 2 pantries, but the are 24"" deep cabinets, not a real pantry. Aside from this issue I like this plan. It gives me plenty of cabinet and counter space.

Issues that still need resolving on this:
1. Is there enough space b/t sink and table?
2. Is oven placement good?
3. Where will my cookbooks and brooms go?

I think I will go back to my first (or maybe it was 31st, I gave up counting) plan and see if I can use these ideas to get pantry space in that back corner. And then, hopefully, will have 2 good plans to compare.
Thanks,

You only have a 2 ft path between the base under the micro and the end of the cabinet run across from it...and that's offset from your garage door, making the path from there really about 18" wide. I'd sure hate to fit through there, even without an armload of groceries.

Don't you want the oven on the baking side of the range?

Do you have an upper cabinet overhanging the end (or up to the end) of the bench on the window wall? How will people get in and out without banging their heads?

The whole aisle from sink to foyer will seem pretty tight, I think.

I'm thinking a couple of your former plans had to be better. Did you by any chance look back at Bmorepanic's plan that was open to the living room like this one?

Cook1, can you tell me what software you are using for your layout? Thanks! Donna

I did go back to B'morepanics open plan (along with all the others) and found that it lacked eating space in the kitchen, something I want more than even a pantry!

Do you think this plan can be tweaked to make it work?-- this ones gives me the most counter space along with work area for 2 of us.

Dana-the software is Better Homes & Garden Design Suite 8.0. It is easy to learn, just a bit quirky.and pretty cheap.

I don't remember some of the past layouts that well, but if you like a more open plan, yes, I think this is a likeable plan worth tweaking. The garage door area, and perhaps you can clip the corner off that table where it intrudes. Does it really NEED to be that deep (it looks about 40")? You could make it shallower but keep the baquette seating the same size. Older folk who just want to plop down and chat would like that. I don't remember what your daily needs are. Would it work to make the aisle portion of the table drop-leaf or slide-out-from-underneath(and still corner-clipped?), normally out of the way, available when needed?

Caveat: Where I'm coming from--I've always disliked having the stove "isolated" on the other side of a fairly wide kitchen. You've consistently liked it, though, so take it for what it's worth. Also, our kids are gone, so when we switched from paper newspaper to laptop newspaper we no longer needed a deep table every morning so both of us could spread out our portions.

Rosie, her garage is on the right...Not by the table, but where the door is opening into the end of a cabinet. That's my biggest concern. Or maybe you just were referring to the table narrowing one end, as well as the garage entry problem at the other.

I wonder about your pantry wants/needs, cook1. You've had almost every kind so far ;-)...From huge walkins, to corners, to shallow, but wide, wall cabinets. I think that almost any of those 3 might be more useful than these you show here...at least to me. If you redid these like Natal's so you could step in, I could see them working. As is, I do like the drawers, but am worried about 24" deep uppers. Actually, these look like they might be deeper?

Yes, both, Rhome. I read your post about the problem at the garage end, but was mostly chatting about the table end.

I don't think the ref and garage door get along at all - unless you're willing to invade the dining room space by countersinking the ref into that wall about two feet. Everytime you try, the aisle to and from the door becomes under 30" and that's just too small as rhome said.

This haz got table and 3 work areas (beside range to the right, both sides of sink. If you really want a prep sink, I'd put one of the smaller ones in the three foot space beside the range. If would function as a pot filler, drain and extra water source when the other was being hogged. You could also trade the upper on the right of the range for a small window facing the house entrance. You can add a third oven undercounter or do a speedcook that also allows microwave only operation.

{{!gwi}}

I've tried shifting the kitchen as you did in this last rendering, B'more, but keep coming up against a problem of the window that you've placed above the table in this last rendering.

street elevation photo:

The window above the table can all be moved, but no farther than 1 foot to the (west) of the down stair because the porch overhang ends there and the window would be placed outside of the overhang.

Whenever I put a table at that end, I could never center the table under the window and that was making me crazy.

I also need a window, rather large I think, to balance the front of the house. Back to drawing, again. Thanks

I like the idea of the corner coffee station (which I absolutely need).

Thought 1: Can you remove one of Bmore's windows and put something on the wall in that corner?

Thought 2: Right now that's a 7 1/2 ft table. Could you fit in a walk in pantry on the garage side and do with a 3 ft table?

Could the fridge go in the spot between the sink and the lr/dr doorway so that you have more flexibility regarding windows on the stove side?

Hi Rhome,
This is the best I could do. All the other plans gave up all uppers on stove wall and I need at least some.

The large empty space under the window and adj. to the stove wall will be a coffee area, as suggested by BMore--I just couldn't draw it...

I've moved the frig over so it is in a better spot.
I think this works, but it also lacks any pizazz or interest--no focal point on stove wall, and the sink wall is rather bland.....

floor plan:

Am I just too tired of all this, or is it really just a boring plan?

Thanks for all input.

Doesn't have to be boring at all! Have you seen the fantastic kitchens that have the range centered between 2 windows?! I've seen some photos posted here that look wonderful. And it really frames the hood and does make it and the range into a focal point.

Are you using an existing fridge? If not, you could get a panel front one and put a matching full-ht cabinet at the foyer end of the sink wall.

Also, what I would do on the L of the stove wall is put really pretty uppers to add some character interest...Or make a hutch look with uppers down to the counter if you don't need the work space. In either case, I would run the cabinets straight to the window wall rather than wrap around the corner. I don't think you'll lose much in the way of storage, and I think it's a less mundane look than the corner cabinet option, and maybe will also give you a little more flexibility with window location...You could shift them a little toward the front door if it would look better from the front.

Your pantries can be another place where you choose to stay plain, or 'pretty things up.'

This is a bit different than you have drawn, but not much. This is a fantasy elevation looking towards the house entrance wall opposite the garage. I can't remember if we ever discussed style, so this is a somewhat generic "magazine" style. I did not wrap the corner with cabinets - the uppers die into the wall as shown. It gives you room for a pot rack, knife rack and/or rail system on the wall or a nice piece of art.

On the right, we have storage cab over a lift up door appliance garage and small shelves in the corner for books or ceramic casserole dishes or cookie jars. Underneath, pull out baskets for potatoes and onions. On the left side, plain uppers dressed up with a nice but plain matching top and bottom treatment using moldings and a couple jazzy corbels. Small light switches and moldings around the doors and windows.
{{!gwi}}

What about swapping the fridge and coffee station (approximately) and pushing the range further to the left? You could have a large window and prep area between them and the coffee station could be next to the sink where the water is.

ok, I think this is a good plan- the layout works, it is the style that will need help.

Here is my preliminary using your ideas:
3

1

2- Sink wall:

I took the cabinet on the right down to the counter for extra storage, but I think I'll prefer having more counter.
It looks really deep, it won't be...

My biggest concern is that there are not many uppers, so a loss of storage space. I'm going to spend some time calculating.

The tradeoff is storage in uppers for a more open feel between living room and kitchen [which also makes the kitchen feel wider]. I now have to give serious consideration to updating the kitchen (this plan) but few uppers or leaving the wall between the rooms but getting reams of storage.

Again, thanks for the time you all have spent trying to help me. I'll look at this with fresh eyes tomorrow.