Are you sure those dishwasher doors will open? It doesn't look like it.

I also noticed a problem with the dishwashers. I don't really get why they'd flank the stove. If you put a spacer in that will allow them to open, they'll still interfere with anyone cooking at the stove. Where will dishes be stored? I'd want dish storage and dishwashers near each other.

How wide is the aisle in between the fridges and the peninsula? Doesn't look wide enough to stand and open the fridge doors...and certainly, no one else will get by if the fridge doors are open.

Draw yourself some dotted lines to represent open doors on your appliances, and maybe that will help.

Yes, I have to say that aside from the other difficulties, you'd always have to have someone stationed with a mop to clean up the water drips going from the sink to the dishwasher between the stove and the fridge.

Is that open to the stairs on the back side of the counter opposite the refrigerator?

The DWs and the fridge both look precarious to me. At a rental beach house w/ 6BRs that sleeps a lot of poeple, there are always going to be people milling around in the kitchen, looking for drinks, snacks, etc. The fridges right there will create a bottleneck. It will be annoying -- even if you've only got 12 or so people there. Some folks eat out all the time when they're at the beach, but some don't want to bother getting dressed and eat in or get carryout to eat at home. We fall into the latter category and I can tell you I'd be super annoyed by that layout.

If you're not going to live there, you might not care so much...but, think about it...an annoying kitchen is not going to cause your house to not get rented by new folks, but it could lose you repeat renters or word-of-mouth recommendations if folks feel annoyed by that bottleneck and by the DW placement. People rent larger homes in conjunction w/ friends and family, and things can feel a little close by the end of the week if you're bumping into each other in the kitchen or bathrooms all the time.

Could you cut off one stool's length from the bar and open it up a bit? You'd still have plenty of counter space. Rearrange the appliances, too -- range on pantry wall might help, and move the other DW....

A great place for another fridge is on the ground level, for keeping beach drinks and ice for filling coolers. Really great not to have to lug that stuff upstairs to chill and then down again when you go to the beach. Folks could keep extras for the week there too.

Where would you suggest the dishwashers be moved ?

The way we have it currently planned, we are thinking that plates and bowls will go in the upper cabinet between the sink and stove right above the one dishwasher. Glasses cups coffee cups etc will go in the 2 upper cabinet between the stove and pantry above the other dishwasher.

3 foot aisle between fridges & peninsula. Opening doors will be no problem, but definitely noone will be able to pass while they are open. Hopefully that encourages keeping the doors shut and our energy bills down. LOL !!

Sorry, posts crossed. Yes, it is partially open to the stairs. But I was thinking the half wall will be a little higher, not counter height. The program will not allow me to show that. I also thought about extending that wall some (but not completely) so there was more bar area cabinets.

My original plan was for the fridges to be out of the cook's work space of the kitchen so that when people came looking for drinks and snacks that they wouldn't get in the way. It was a bonus that we could recess them to counter depth in that spot. We certainly can give up some peninsula space. As much as I really hate giving up a stool and also giving up cabinet space, I can definitely see that area could become a bottleneck. : (

How about something like this...

As to the location of the MW...I suggest somewhere along the 63" expanse of upper cabinets OR in the 24" Pantry area on a built in shelf. But, you may have to expand the pantry to 30"W and either move the broom closet elsewhere OR, if you can take down that small wall, make it a 21"D x 24"W closet turned 90o (facing south in the layout) (21" comes from 12" left when 6" taken for pantry + 3" filler shown + 5" wall + 1" into room...12+3+5+1=21)

Ok, I've made some changes ...
- shortened bar so aisle in front of fridges is 4 feet
(I hated to give up a stool :( but those 2 will have plenty of elbow room now!)
- made the broom "closet" into a skinnier broom pullout
- moved stove to pantry wall and dishwasher to where stove was
- increased length of upper cabinets on ice maker wall

Great idea about fridge on lower level ! I could possibly incorporate a small one down there as well. Our cottage is ocean front, so wont necessarily need a fridge downstairs ... people will exit to beach from upper level.

Buehl - thank you for the layout idea ! What program did you use to do it ? It has caused me to questions my thoughts and I would like yours & others input ...
- 6 burner range. I worry about giving up cabinet space. What are the thoughts on 6 vs. 4 burner range ? When would you need 6 burners at one time ?
- Hood vs microwave over range. I usually prefer the look of hoods, however, I thought it would look odd with the 'pipe' part of it going that high up the wall to the ceiling ? Also, again, I worry about giving up cabinet space having to have the microwave elsewhere and no cabinets above the microwave. I don't mind microwaves over the range as that is what I have always had.
- Trash - originally I had planned to have the trash can in a closet pantry on the ice maker wall, but when I did away with that I forgot about the trash !! Any other ideas for trash placement ? What do people think about trash under the kitchen sink ?

I have mentioned several times about worrying about giving up cabinet space. Because this place will sleep so many people, we will need lots more dishes, etc than we have at home. At home we have maybe 8 of each plate, coffee cup, tea glass, juice glass, etc. Here we will need like 30 of each. Not to mention pots & pans and casserole dishes and tupperware and and and . . . Eek !

{{!gwi}}

If you are going to rent this out and it sleeps 14 - 20 and as many as 28 I can imagine all six burners going at once. I do like the layout buehl did for the DW's.

How far along is the planning/construction of this house? I ask because I see the potential for a fairly significant change that would afford you a lot more space and make the layout much easier to work with. Is there any way to close that open stairwell by extending the kitchen floor over it? I can appreciate the more open feel with the design the way it is, but it isn't near worth the trade-off in kitchen space, at least in my opinion. I've seen an existing structure changed in this way, and it was well worth it. Is this a possibility for you?

With that many people in the house, it seems likely that there would many occasions where two people are cooking at once, and in that case, I'd want landing space on both sides of the stove, I think. It looks like the pantry preempts one side now?

eandhl - I need some help on this one, please. Just two of us, so my husband & I order in almost every meal every day. I cannot think of a meal that would use 6 burners at one time. Which is why I need help from all you guys designing this kitchen ! I obviously cannot speak from experience, hehe. Can you give me an example of some meals that would take this ? The most I could think of would be breakfast when I was making for example eggs, grits, bacon, and pancakes at the same time, which is still only 4.

holligator - I am intrigued. Tell me what you mean. The reason I have it like this only partially covering the stairs is because of the head room needed over stairs so you don't bump your head when walking up them. Code requires a minimum of 6'6" headroom. The ceiling height on the downstairs is 9' and each riser is 7.5" which means you can only cover 4 risers before you are out of code. We are very open to changes if they make sense and have incorporated some great changes based on recommendations from others. We make a change to something big or small almost every time we look at the plans. We have been working on the plans for about 2+ years and plan to build in the fall.

Writersblock - the latest design has 27" base cabinet to left of stove then pantry. Do you think that is enough to allow for a 2nd person ?

>Do you think that is enough to allow for a 2nd person ?

Yes, that should be okay. It was hard to tell from the drawing.

I have started a kitchen list so I can plan my cabinets. What am I missing for a well-equiped kitchen ? Please list anything specific you can think of even if I *kind of* already have it listed. For example, I have 'Other Gadgets & Tools' listed, but is there a gadget or tool that you would need and would miss if it wasn't there that I haven't specifically listed ? I rarely cook, so I don't want to miss something that all of you guys use all the time that I may never have even realized existed !! LOL.

Aluminum Foil / Saran Wrap / Wax Paper / Garbage Bags
Dish Liquid / Dishwasher Detergent
Pot Holders / Dish Towels / Dish Clothes / Dish Drainer
Canister Set / Sugar Bowl / Salt & Pepper Shakers / Spice Rack
Cutting Board
Trash Can
Dishes - dinner plates, lunch plates, bread plates, bowls, coffee cups & saucers (or coffee mugs), Kids Dishes
Ice Cream Dishes / Ice Cream Maker !
Glasses (multi sizes - juice, water, etc) & plastic Cups, Kids Cups
Mixed Drinks Glasses, Wine Glasses, Champagne Glasses, Beer Mugs for Freezer, Can/bottle Koozies
Drink Mixing Stuff - wine opener, shot glasses, strainer, shaker, stir stick, etc
Silverware, Steak Knives, Kids Utensils
Knives Block / Knives Drawer ?
Spatulas / Spoons / Slotted Spoons / Wooden Spoon / Ladle / Whisk
Peeler / Grater / Rolling Pin / Tongs / Other Gadgets & Tools
Crab Crackers / Shrimp Deveiner / Fish Scaler / Fillet Knife
Pots / Pans / Lids / Large Stew Pot - multi size pots, 2 large pans + other smaller size pans
Tupperware Containers
Mixing Bowls - multi sizes / Colander / Measuring Cups / Measuring Spoons
Serving Bowls / Platters / Salad Bowl / Trivets / Bread Basket
Casserole and Baking Dishes - rectangular, square, round
Microwave Cookware
Broiler Pan / Cookie Sheets / Cake Pans / Pie Pans / Muffin-Cupcake Pans
Beverage Pitchers with tops / Juice Jugs
Tea Kettle / Coffee Maker + spare carafe / Coffee Grinder (Espresso/Cappuccino Maker ?)
Can Opener - Electric & Manual / Bottle Opener / Rubber Bottle Opening Gripper
Toaster(s)
Food Processor
Electric Beaters / Stand Mixer
Blender
Fondue Pot
Fry Daddy
Electric Skillet
Sandwich Maker / George Foreman Grill
Fire Extinguisher / Smoke Alarms
Fly Swatter

Hi, I'm not great with layout but I just got back from a beach vacation in a house with 19 other family members. The house had a fabulous kitchen. I'll give you some notes FWIW.

1) there was a 48" thermador cooktop. On numerous occasions we had 5 or 6 burners going at once.

2) 2 dishwashers were a necessity. In our beach house, one was in the prep area and one closer to the eating area. Awesome. You might consider moving one closer to the opening from kitchen to eating area.

3) Our second fridge was in the upstairs of our house in a kitchenette. i would recommend putting your 2nd fridge outside of the main kitchen considering that your space is somewhat tight.

4) We had a GE Monogram ice maker and it was a dream...when it worked. Lots of performance issues but man I loved that ice!

5) You don't show the dining space on this plan. Our house had a huge table for 10 adjacent to the kitchen in the great room and only 2 spots at the island. it kind of stunk having to eat in shifts. I would personally love to see more seating at your peninsula if you can swing it, unless you have a big table

6) We had a huge (maybe 5' wide) floor to ceiling pantry and that wasn't even enough. If you can't put more food storage in the kitchen proper, I'd put a closet somewhere close by.

7) Off topic for kitchens, but are you going to have a bunk room? In my beach house that I plan to have someday now that I know how great it is (!!!), I will have a large bunk room with 3 or more bunk beds.

8) Our kitchen was stocked to the nines and it was awesome. The plates and silverware were very nice, we had an enormous set of shiny Calphalon cookware, and tons and tons of drinking glasses. We had multiple corkscrews, great knives, etc.

I loved that place :)

Good luck with yours. Where will it be?
Anita

holligator - I am intrigued. Tell me what you mean. The reason I have it like this only partially covering the stairs is because of the head room needed over stairs so you don't bump your head when walking up them. Code requires a minimum of 6'6" headroom. The ceiling height on the downstairs is 9' and each riser is 7.5" which means you can only cover 4 risers before you are out of code.

OK, well, I was hoping for more space than that, but even that much could help. If you extended the kitchen floor out over the stairs, you could gain a substantial amount of additional cabinet and countertop space or a nice-sized pantry.

One of these would be kind of what I'm thinking...

OR....

It's worth at least looking into whether it would be possible and, if it is, just how much floor space you would gain. I was originally thinking you might gain enough to move the cooktop over there, but that's not likely, given the measurements you gave for the stairs.

The wall would not need to stick out past the original counter (where the ice machine is) like I have it in those drawings. It would be better if it didn't, but I was too lazy to fix it once I had uploaded those pics. :)

Hi Anita,
Thaks for your comments. It looks like my pictures aren't showing up right now. This is most likely just momentary and should be fixed within the hour (the picture viewings have exceeded my data transfer limit). :(

Tell me more about the dishwashers. Was it not a pain to have the 2nd dishwasher so far away from the sink ?

We have dining at the table for 14, with 2 at the bar, and 6 at an outdoor table. Beyond that, we will have tv trays for the living room. We do also have a bunk room planned that has 2 bunk beds with a twin over a double and one bunk that is twin over twin.

Is there anything you can think of that your cottage had that I do not have on my list ?

Where was the house you stayed ? Is there a link to it online anywhere ? Ours will be in Ocean Isle Beack, NC.

I just have to say that this is absolutely like a dream project! I hope you plan on using and enjoying this a spectacular beach house like this yourself!! Good luck with the planning and enjoy the process. I will be lurking just for the fun of it. I have no experience with a project this large so don't think I'd be able to contribute as insightfully as others.

oops, that should be ... Ocean Isle Beach.

remodel, dream project is 100% right ! Yes, we will be there all the time in May, September, and through the winter. June, July, & August are for rentals. :)

holligator, WOW ! Love this thinking outside the box. We are going to play around with this idea and see how much stair headroom we have and how much additional room we could get and if we could make this work somehow.

Maybe buehl can provide you with the storage idea list she sent me regarding my new kitchen project. It spoke to zones and storage in a way that is really helpful to me as I begin to plan.

Sorry- I don't know how to link it but I see she has posted here so maybe she can pass it along.

Good Luck with your beach house- it sounds perfect! I always love the beach in the fall and the spring so you will be lucky to get to enjoy your dream.

Angela, I'm glad you like the idea. I hope it works in your space. I'd try to get as much kitchen space as possible out of that, if I were you. The link below shows the basic idea of what I was thinking the stair well would look like with the kitchen sticking out over it.

You could, conceivably, even accommodate some of the slope on the floor inside a large pantry to get more storage space. This pic shows what I mean. The door is closed on the first pic and open on the second one. Does this make sense??

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}

Thank you crescent50. I found your post and it did help me think of things !
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0723280830444.html
Added to list :
plastic ziplok bags
cookie cutters ?
pizza stone
placemats
vases
crockpot
waffle iron

What is a jello mold ? What is a roasting rack ?
Should I have a breadmaker there ? I wonder if that would get used in a vacation rental. Aren't they pretty expensive ? Those of you that use them, how comfortable would you be using one that was a different model than yours at home ?

Where would be good spot for the phone area - phonebook, restaurant menus (in a binder), paper, pens ?

OK, here's what I was thinking about. If you can move the wall even farther down, you might be able to put a cooktop over there.

With this setup, you'd have to accommodate a lot more of the slope of the stairwell ceiling, but you could do that with fake drawers/doors.

This would involve rethinking much of the rest of the layout. It would make the fridge awfully far from the cooktop, but maybe you could just swap the fridge and pantry. Also, since you had a range, not a cooktop, in the original plan, you'd need to find a place for an oven.

Angela,
Your kitchen sounds like it will be a dream for those lucky enough to stay at your beach house. As it happens, I am going to Ocean Isle in a couple of weeks (having looked at beach houses from Sunset to Corova) to stay in a new 6-BR house. We have never gone with more than 2 other families (having gone to the beach every year for the last 20 years -mostly in NC but occasionally in SC), so we have never been more than 12-14 or so. When I go to one of these large luxury rentals, what I expect is a kitchen stocked with enough dishes to feed a crowd (and some non-breakable for the kids), serving dishes, a good assortment of pots and pans (especially one large enough to boil massive amounts of shrimp), 2 good size refrigerator/freezers, 2 dishwashers, coffeemaker, blender (got to make those frozen drinks, you know), food processor, mixer, toaster, microwave, good assortment of utensils, and a good assortment of knives. (I'll think about anything else I would be disappointed not to have.) Anything else is just a plus. As you probably know, most kitchens in beach house rentals in NC do not come with dish detergent, saran wrap etc (although in many there is enough of such items to get one started). I personally do not think you need a bread maker. When my kids were little and we baked, we baked brownies and cookies and usually bought the mixes as we didn't want to waste precious beach time doing anything too complicated. I also don't think you need a jello mold for the same reason. (Jello molds are for jello desserts, although I suppose you could use them to make other kinds of desserts or anything you need a mold for.) If you want, I can give you a report about our rental house's kitchen once I am back. Who knows -maybe I will rent your house next year. Have fun with this enjoyable project!

Hi, Angela.

One DW was next to the main sink and the other was next to the prep sink. The prep sink was in one of the island.

It sounds like you have a good amount of seating. A table on the balcony would have been dreamy!

We rented in Gulf Shores Alabama. Here is the link.

http://www.kaiserrealty.com/rental_homes.php?a=fs&beds=7&current_key=199

Our house was well stocked with lots of the things already mentioned. Two coffee makers, great cookware, tons and tons of dishes, glasses, etc.

We brought all of our own disposables (toilet paper, paper towels, ziplocs, detergent, hand soap, etc.)

One thing I would be sure to do is put several good locations for rinsing sand off on the deck and on the lower level if there is access to the house. We had water spigots everywhere and little outdoor shower and it made it much easier to rinse off. All the same, there was *still* sand everywhere. I would not put an inch of carpet in a beach house!

Have fun!!!

Anita

Make sure you have a good, roomy owner's closet (locking!) or two for *your* stuff. You will want more tupperware, better knives, and decent non-stick pans (if you use them) while you are there. Knives and non-stick at rental houses tends to get stuffed into the dishwasher and ruined. I always end up bringing my own chef's knife and paring knife, plus a non-stick griddle and skillet. Much as I don't want to spend my vacation cooking, we eat a lot of pancakes, and I refuse to make them on shoddy non-stick cookware.

I'm so envious!! Enjoy!!

Maybe too late to toss in this idea, but perhaps an additional prep sink would be helpful.

It would be the best place for a 2nd DW, and if you add a garbage disposal there, will serve as a second spot to make salads and also clean dishes.

Might serve to keep traffic out of the real prep area.

What would you think about doing away with your peninsula and going with an island? Prep sink could be there, and one edge could still be for stools. WOuld add more storage.

Have fun!