As I said before, its not about finishes in the basement; its about living underneath the rest of the family. Using the first floor spaces for daytime gathering, the second floor for private sleeping and the lowest level for utility is a centuries old tradition and it still works well. I don't agree that a basement is cheap space that can be cheaply finished. A walk-out basement usually provides windows on only one side unless you build expensive areaways for additional windows. The concrete floor will require serious insulation and sleepers for a wood floor as comfortable as the upper floor bedrooms. The basement floor will probably need to be a foot lower to allow an 8 ft ceiling height with utilities above it requiring additional excavation, concrete and taller forms. The ceiling will need additional sound treatment if he intends to study in his room. If your son is in the basement he will also have his own private entrance with less security. I realize most people don't worry about such things but the world now comes unfiltered into our children's lives on their phones and computers and its smart to think more defensively. I have 2 boys and a girl 32, 30 and 23 respectively. As children they each experienced the world differently as it rapidly changed. My wife and I saw an ad for fast broadband service where a mother said "we love the speed because we have so little time to spend as a family." We both started laughing. If you want to spend more time as a family it would be wise to start with turning the TV and computers off and designing your house so it doesn't feel like a fraternity or a tavern like the ones so often posted on this forum. I realize you haven't designed your house yet but when looking for the best arrangement for family spaces do it with family interaction in mind first and all the other considerations second. Apartments are for efficient living; houses are for raising families.

LOL! I just mentioned my OCD personality on another thread. I NEVER, EVER, set my purse down on anything. I hang it off the back of chairs or it sits on my lap, and I routinely wipe it with those alcohol wipes. You could EAT off the bottom of my purse. Also yucky: people who put their MAIL on their kitchen islands. My mail is often dusty when I get it. What is that?! P.S. I do realize this is just a personality flaw on my part. Immune systems need to be exposed to "normal" bugs to develop properly. When my DS was young, I forced myself not to stop him when he crawled around in the sandbox or the sidewalk, or in our own backyard for that matter. It was HARD for me, though. OK, back to regularly scheduled programming.

Scarlett, thanks for "allowing me to say "screw it". That about sums up how my hubby and kids feel as well as me. At least a good part of me feels. I've tried my best to change the relationship for over 20 years and gotten no where. I continued to try because my mother was alive and continued to want me to. No matter what I did, it never changed. On the other hand, it would be nice for it to, but at this point I don't forsee it happening. My daughter asked me yesterday, if the situation changed, would you ever be able to believe in or trust the change or would you be looking for the "underlying reason and what they are up to". I told her I didn't know and she said she would never trust them after all these years. When I told her that I didn't like her attitude and her taking sides or being caught in the middle between the parents on both sides, her comment was "we have been, both of your kids, because you have been trying so hard for so many years and keep getting shot down and we see how it has affected you. You gave custom handmade graduation gifts to both of my cousins along with graduation cards and only got 1 thank you note from one of your nieces, and both of you kids didn't even get an acknowledgement on either their HS of college graduations. You sent them pics of us from graduations and you got nothing. When grandma died, they wiped out her apartment of almost everything before you and dad got there at the time you where told to meet them there. When we got there, there was nothing left for us to take and everything my brother and I gave our grandmother was gone. When we said something about the stuff, your brother and sister-in-law told us we where lying that their kids gave grandma everything and we gave them nothing. All my brother and I have is a coffee mug we each gave her one year that says "worlds best grandma". They took everything else. So how can you say we aren't caught in the middle. You didn't put us in the middle, they did." She's right about all she said, and I could add so many more things. The reasons for going to this wedding are really not the right reasons to go; because my mother would want me to, to spite them if that's the reason we where invited, ETC. One thing I've learned in the past few years of my health not being good is that life is to short and you never know when your health will be good or bad. Take the advantages of good health and enjoy them, deal with the bad when you have to, but don't torture yourself with what could have been and what you should have done and didn't do. You can't change that. I would love to add a family tie in to a wedding gift for my niece, but I don't have anything to give them. My mother left no will and they left me and my children with very little of anything of hers. As for recipes, well I sent them some after my mother died and was told not to send any more, they don't want them and through out what I sent them. I've spent quite a bit of time talking with my hubby, my kids and my best friend about what is the right thing to do and have pretty much decided, with all of them agreeing, that it's time to put this chapter of life to rest. My health, both physical and mental is far more important than any wedding to attend. I've been through several years of serious orthopedic and spinal health problems, several surgeries for them and am still trying to get back on me feet. Mentally, I'm just too drained from all that I've dealt with in the past couple of years to deal with the any more attempts to salvage something that no one who knows us and the situation believes is there to salvage. My family and friends have been through too much with me to see me suffer or be hurt or insulted again with this family situation. The words are "enough is enough, time to end the torture for yourself. Going to this wedding will be a physical strain on you that you shouldn't do, it may very well set back your recovery again, and you've had enough things happen to set you back that where beyond your control, but this one is." Being honest with myself, what they have said is true. My brother doesn't know anything about the health issues I've had or the spinal surgery, so I can't say anything negative about no contact with them over that. I never called him, nor did my hubby or kids. None of us saw any need to. The people that where important to us knew and where there to help me out with whatever help I needed for the past year and are still doing. I wouldn't expect my brother to have done anything. So, at this point in time, the invitation will be declined. I will send in the RSVP declined and the same day I mail that I will send a letter briefly explaining health issues that include spinal surgery and one set back after the other. I had hoped to be recovered enough to attend, but after seeing my spinal surgeon this past week, his advise is I am not medically or physically capable of attending the wedding or reception. I wish my niece the best and all the happiness in the world and when I am recovered enough, we would love to get together and catch up, see pics of the wedding etc. I will also send a note to my niece as well and will send a gift. It won't hurt to be the one to be courteous and polite. I was brought up that way, brought my children up that way as well. My daughter though, asked to have her name and her brothers included on the gift card when we send the gift and they will contribute to the gift. Again thanks for the advise. It is much appreciated.

I think the fridge location could go either way, but I'd definitely lean towards swapping it with the ovens, but that's because in *my* house the "browser" traffic to the fridge is at least 50-100 trips a day, but the "chef" traffic is more like a dozen trips. When I'm cooking, I like to get all my stuff out of the fridge and at the ready in one or two trips instead of grabbing as I cook. But kids and others are constantly going in and out for drinks, condiments, snacks, etc . . . so I wanted my fridge convenient to snackers and browsers and diners. :) I also like keeping hot stuff far away from seating. :) Also, if you move the cooktop to that side wall, then also moving the ovens allows you to use the cooktop as a landing zone for hot stuff out of the oven, which I personally find very convenient. Also, if you leave the fridge where it is but move the cooktop, I don't like having the fridge (browsers, drink getters) so close to my cooktop and thus the fridge landing space (for drink prep) being right there by my cooktop. So, yes, I'd swap the ovens and the fridge. I do think moving the cooktop to the side wall is a *great* idea. That would be a huge improvement IMHO by increasing the workspace between the sink and the cooktop and separating the clean up zone from the cooking zone by some good workspace for both the clean up person and the chef. In my kitchen, when major cooking is underway or recently completed, it is not uncommon for me to have 36" or so of counter space (above the dishwasher and beyond) covered in hand washed items drying -- piles of cookie sheets, large pots, knives, crystal, etc, so I need at least that much space on the "clean" side of my sink free for that without impinging on cooking/working/serving/prep areas. Meanwhile, I need at least 24" free on the "dirty" side of my sink for the stacks of dishes awaiting processing/loading into the dishwasher and/or sink for washing. So, that means my cleanup zone really needs (and has) 8 linear feet of space for the 24" dirty counter + 36-39" sink base + 36" clean space. I have that much space for it, and it all gets used. (My trash pull out is under the "dirty" side of the sink . . . but you could tuck it under your sink base if you plan it right and have a compatible sink and plumbing locations.) I'd absolutely die (obviously not really, but still) if I didn't have a trash pull out near the "dirty" side of my sink for scraping dishes. If you can't fit the main trash pull out there and want it over by your prep/cooktop area (assuming you do move it to the side wall), then I'd only do that if I could fit a second nice trash pull out UNDER my dish sink. Even if that sink pullout is a bit smaller than the typical kitchen trash pull out, it'd be sufficient for me. Not ideal, though, and I'd really try to have it to the side of the sink. FWIW, our dishwasher opens to a 42" aisle (45" cabinet to cabinet), and walking by it when it is open is no problem at all. It's not in a super high traffic zone, but we do walk by and around it when it is open all the time without any trouble. I wouldn't go crazy about the window size, even though I do agree that a wider window would be better. If you do stick with the smaller window, do be careful to keep your cabinets away from it a bit, as the cabinetry crowding the window will block even more light. I'd definitely give up that under-counter cabinetry where your seating is. Make the island a bit narrower, allow 18-21" overhang for diners, and let go of the idea of using cabinets for storage under there. It'd be super awkward to access, and cabinets cost $$ . . . redirect that $$ to other items on your wish list. If you cabinets are custom, you could make those island cabinets extra deep (say 30") which will dramatically increase their storage capacity. (I have just one stack of 30" deep drawers, and I swear they have twice as much capacity as the standard depth ones, although I know that is mathematically impossible, lol.)