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happyallison

Shouldn't do it, but can you check out my layout?

happyallison
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago

I don't want to end up more confused, so I'm only looking for minor revisions at this point as I need to get things ordered this week (unless you see glaring issues!).

Wanted to swap trash and DW. Won't DW block diners from scraping plates and clearing the table? However, it's nice to have a trash between rangetop and sink. Also gets me my much desired spice/oil pull out as I use EVOO a couple times a day often and want it close but not out. (There are a few measurements off I've found).

Also, can I shrink the sink cabinet base if I use a 36" sink? I would probably shrink to a 30" sink to do as smaller cabinet.

And blind corner or lazy susan (yes I just posted this on a separate thread)?

Thanks for any input, final stretch! (well of design that is, then on to install of course) :)

Empty space next to the 94" wall in pantry( is supposed to be 127") is the 32" door to the garage . Also, distance between island and sofa isn't enough, so will probably shorten workspace isles (45"?) and shorten island to 4 ft. including 12" overhang. So rangetop might be really off-set compared to the isle but what to do?

*just edited, left out door to the garage info when I copied and pasted

Comments (45)

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    (

    (I couldn't post the pic, it kept saying too many characters, so I took a pic off my computer!)

  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Allison, I don't see the layout....

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  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Haha I think we hit submit at the same time!

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    LOL! I just couldn't get it posted in one post. I'm so not tech savvy...

  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    My eyes are so bad, I have a tough time seeing the plan. I can see you got the walk in pantry you wanted though...awesome!

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Rebunky I just made an edit as reread and left out the garage door info. (I'm trying to incorporate a large dish drawer in the island inspired by you). Do you know what weight allowance your drawer is weighted for?

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I know, the PDF actually isn't much better unfortunately. But yes I am EXCITED about a walk in pantry!!! And a nice savings on cabinetry as well. :) I'd probably have to draw something as even looking at my printout it's not very clear, and the website wasn't letting me post the full PDF saying my characters were full. Hmm.

  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Good question on the drawer weight issue because I actually brought this up to my kd since I wanted it for my dishes and also my pots and pans. I asked if I should upgrade the Blum glides to ones that held more weight. She talked me out of it saying it shouldn't be a problem. She said the others would be overkill.

    Well, I will say, I definately notice that the soft close motion on that big dish drawer moves much, much slower when that puppy is loaded with a lot of dishes. Not enough to bother me yet, but I wonder if it will get worse with time.

    If you could draw the layout that would help. I can't read diddley squat! Lol.



  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, I will try tomorrow as I'm ready to hit the hay! Thanks for sticking with me rebunky I really appreciate your advice!

  • sheloveslayouts
    9 years ago

    This is so exciting!

    Without knowing all of the discussions and decisions behind this layout, the only thing that struck me is that I'd probably swap the fridge and the ovens; primarily to put the fridge closer to the table and the microwave.

    However, I think this will be fabulous too! That's swap is just my only thought.

    happyallison thanked sheloveslayouts
  • sheloveslayouts
    9 years ago

    Another reason, I guess, for swapping fridge and ovens is that if you're standing at the prep sink, one can also get into the fridge without interfering.

  • autumn.4
    9 years ago

    happyallison-with a 48" aisle you will be able to walk past the DW with the door open. Ours is 45" and it's not a problem. :)

    happyallison thanked autumn.4
  • ck_squared
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with benjesbride - switch the double ovens with the fridge - for reasons bens stated above.

    I agree with buehl about moving the rangetop to side wall. It's much too cramped on window wall with not nearly enough space between range and sink.

    I don't think every kitchen needs a prep sink. You will have plenty of prep space between sink and rangetop and a wide open space on the island.


    ETA: I'm sorry. I was not part of the previous discussions on your layout so probably shouldn't have contributed to more confusion here. Good luck with whatever you decide!

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago

    I like buehl's design best for sure. I like the bigger window she gave you as well as moving the range. If you didn't want the prep sink you could swap the ovens and fridge so your fridge was near your large sink but I kind of think it makes sense to have that prep area over there. It makes it easier to have two people in the kitchen at the same time. One maybe washing things up by the big sink/DW while the other is "around the corner" preping and cooking.


    happyallison thanked Jeannine Fay
  • Buehl
    9 years ago

    I had originally moved the refrigerator, but then realized that it would increase zone-crossing and would make the trip b/w the refrigerator and range longer and contain more obstacles. With it on the perimeter, it doesn't matter which location b/c it keeps outsiders out of the primary work zones and the island directs traffic around the inside of the kitchen.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the aisles listed on the OP's layout are not correct. They don't include the normal counter depth of 25.5". Even with frameless cabinets, the counters will be at least 25" deep. This it to not just cover the doors, but also the hardware and to direct spills away from the front of the cabinets and the doors & drawer fronts. The OP's layout shows 24.75 - which is the depth of cabinets + doors - not counters. (Most doors/drawer fronts are 3/4" deep - but there's also a bit of "air space" b/w the door and the frame (framed cabs), so they're really closer to an extra 1" deep - cabinets + doors are 25" and then add the extra 1/2" to 1" of counter overhang beyond the doors/drawer fronts.


  • sheloveslayouts
    9 years ago

    I looked at your drawing again. It was easier to see your photo this morning than last night--my aging eyes!

    15" depth overhang is recommended for counter seating and it looks like you're planning for 12". Of course, 15" is just a recommendation and it depends on how tall your people are, how often the island seating will be use, etc., but I'd reconsider the depth of your overhangs.

  • autumn.4
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To clarify I measured from counter edge to counter edge - 45". Not from cabinet to cabinet.

    Edit-and I am envious of your island with seating on 2 sides. :D


  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago

    I agree with keeping the fridge where buehl has it. With the pantry around the corner it's nice to keep the food retrieval zoned to the same area near the prep sink/range. In your case I do think that prep sink would add considerably to the function of the kitchen.


  • cheri127
    9 years ago

    Hi Happyallison. I'm not usually on this site buy when I was browsing today and saw your post I had to chime in. I struggled with whether to give up the trash cabinet in my prep area (between sink and range) in favor of very useful 26" drawers. Well, I love my drawers but I hate, hate, hate having to traipse past the sink and DW to the trash bin while prepping (just can't get the hang of a waste bowl ala Rachel Ray). I still think I made the right choice but boy do I wish I had a trash pull out between the range and sink.

    I love Bueh's layout!

    happyallison thanked cheri127
  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Allison, I debated all day today at work whether or not I should post this layout I drew up last night. I mean you specifically said you were only asking about minor revisions. Oh, I know should not do it. I should mind my business. But something just doesn't feel right not saying anything...please forgive me and feel free not to read this if it will make you more confused. I do mean well...:-)

    I'll try an explain my pathetic drawing. I am sorry in advance for my lengthy rambling. I know this is probably off as to the scale... I got out my super granny glasses so hope the numbers are right.


    I switched fridge and ovens. The 18" cab between fridge and dw is so they don't fight when open. Also makes possible for you to stand on either side of dw to put mugs and glasses away in the cabinet above. Nice spot for coffee pot and toaster between fridge and sink.


    36" sink base is more centered on longer back wall. Lined up with island. You can do a 36" or 33" sink but just check the sink specks to see what size can fit in the 36" base. I put the big trash p/o you had on the right. I like that spot for it.


    I think the window should be at least 36" above the sink even though you said that is not the good view. The small window looked kinda puny. I allowed 6" on each side of window to fit whatever size trim your doing.


    I like uppers flanking sinks and stoves to be symmetrical, if possible anyways. I made them them nice and big. Maybe too big at 36", but I like how you can open both doors and have a huge open cabinet. I have one 36" upper and love it.


    I really felt the space between sink and cooktop was the main glaring issue. They were just too close. I also keep thinking the window/sink that close to the cooktop/hood is fighting for who gets to have the glory as the focal point on that big wall. Each says... Hey look at me!

    Moving the cooktop over to the short wall makes it have it's own focal on that side. And most important is the space to spread out between sink and stove. I can see prep on island as well looking out to the view. Plenty space for more than one cook in this kitchen.

    I thought moving the oven/convection micro to the other side would be more convenient next to the cooking zone with nice landing on cooktop or island. If someone needs to use the microwave to heat coffee or a plate of food, they can easily cut across behind the chef if need be on occasion with those big isles.

    To get the wider isles, I did cut the island width like you were thinking. You can play with the size a bit, but think as drawn its about 3 1/2' x 7 1/2'. I didn't know how close it was getting to the couch, so you could go to 4' if that works. I would just make sure to have at least 5' or more to the couch. Also note that is with changing to a 18" overhang. You probably would be good with only 15". However, 12" might be tight for growing sons and a tall hubby.

    The cabinets behind the island are an expense I would save for other things. They will be annoying to use anyways, having to move the stools away and duck under to get things. I would lose them in a heartbeat before shortening the isle width. Unless you just do one skinny cabinet opening towards the ovens (depending on if you have the room towards the couch). Remember you have that awesome pantry space now!

    I know on paper, 53" isle seems huge, but it is just right. I take one pivet and step to go from sink to island, island to stove, or island to fridge to put away groceries.

    You could even have the dw and both those 36" drawers wide open and still sneak by in between. I think you will love the space.

    You worried about clearing plates from the dining table. No problem! There is plenty space for people to walk in front of the open DW, scrape plates into sink or trash on right, then load left into the DW, and then exit to the right around the island. Total flow!

    That corner base is a 36" super susan for appliances and for that giant roaster pan of yours! You also have the 36 drawers on the island for pans too.

    That upper corner is not ideal as I made it the ever dreaded blind corner. I had to go with it in my kitchen so that the cabinets flanking my sink could be equal. I actually don't mind it at all. I fit lots of thing I don't use a lot in the corner.

    I chose the blind corner upper because then you could have equal size cabinets on the sides of your hood. Note they hinge open away from the stovetop so they are very useful as you stand center at the cooktop. I have my tall olive oil bottles and my large spices bottles I uses daily in mine. But there is a couple places you could do your oil pullouts on the lowers if you want.

    Oh and the top drawer on the island towards the stove side would be a great spot for spices if you have a lot like me. The other top drawer on the island would be great for silverware across from dw.

    Ideally you'd do a 42" hood above a 36" cooktop. But that can be up to you if you want to just do a 36" just adjust the cabinets on each side.

    One thing I do wish I had planned better was to put at least 3" fillers on the sides of my wood hood cabinet. I later was wanting to add a little shelf with crown moulding on my hood cabinet. I can't because the flanking cabs won't open with the crown sticking out. Something to be aware of with you hood cabinet design.

    Well before I give you a coronary and send you to the ER, I better shut up. Whatever you decide, I know it is going to work the best for YOU. I just had to tell you my thoughts, hope I didn't overstep... I do sincerely wish you only the best!

  • lyfia
    9 years ago

    I think buhl and rebunky has given you some very good layouts to work with. Unfortunately I think yours have one major glaring issue (and I believe you were open to change if one of those were found) and that is the 21" between sink and stove. This part makes this a single cook kitchen vs. moving it over to the other wall opens things up to have multiple prep spaces. If somebody is standing at the stove, then having somebody at the sink is going to feel really tight and I see no reason to bunch it all up there when you have space to not do that. Also you'll find yourself using the 21" space between sink and cooktop and will find it lacking in space as it will be the natural place to put things that you need for cooking and for chopping after rinsing etc. Yes the island is there, but your natural inclination won't be to go over there and use it.

    happyallison thanked lyfia
  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    @You guys, thank you all sooo much. OK, I did ask for minor revisions. :) You all kind of crack me up. But I also love you give the best advice. The reason for the request for minor changes being I was trying to get this ordered this week due to lead time. Not happening. Unfortunately due to one of my contractors flaking out on me, we've had to regroup and work with another contractor (already working with me) to come up with a new game plan (whole house remodel). It is still in the works. But good news is, it buys me planning time. YAY! (Not much though, I think till next Mon.)

    What is so weird, is that one of my firsts drafts of layout is very similar to what you all are suggesting. It was before I was going to do the addition, where the dining table is in the new configuration.

    Buehl, I have to agree I do prefer your layout. I actually think my KD did do a similar version of this, however the range hood and tall appliance cabinet looked crowded in the 3D. So I opted for the other layout. When I think of my previous home, it was precisely this layout.

    Prep sink debate. This is a concern. I really don't like prep sinks. I really love flat, open island counters. Is it a major functional problem?

    @Rebunky you always just make me smile with the way you put things, which is awesome because a lot of days I feel like crying (you all know how that is with remodeling). This week has been tough I'm surprised I haven't had a coronary! I love your layout as well. I have to print it to sort out the differences with the other posted layout. It looks very similar. I really go back and forth on the fridge near the dining table (condiments, drinks) vs. fridge near pantry (bringing groceries in from garage entrance, etc., but also tightening up that spot.)

    Any thoughts on the fridge vs. oven debate?

    Another issue. The window was already ordered based on the previous layout 'before addition'. :((( It is 24Wx36H to give maximum play for upper cabinets. Is this a problem? To be honest, I have another place I can use that window but it's a 2 week lead time and they will be doing my siding and windows very soon so my contractor may tell me no go. Should I do a 33" base? Will it still look out of proportion? I'm still not sure what sink base works best, 36", 33", or 30". I was thinking split the difference at 33". But I don't know what sink I'm getting yet, do I have some play in that?

    @autumn4 I can't believe the island seating either! I'm wanting to dress it up but having a hard time (corbels seem tricky with 2 sided seating) and I even wonder if it's worth it with seats in front of it.

    @benjesbride will it be uncomfortable? I think it will mainly be kids there. I'd rather conserve the space for cabinetry, and I just worry without the room fully in place and framed out, sometimes things get slightly altered in construction and I'd rather err a few inches short than over to get proper walkway space, etc. I also want to plan for the future when they are older, I imagine with seating for 5 it may get used more than I anticipate.

    Alright, I still have a window to make changes so any other tweaks welcome.

  • Lavender Lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just another idea...I've been in a t-shape island mood the last few days :)

    Can you consolidate the larger range with the ovens? And I used Buehl's plan, because it's so much easier to read!


  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Interesting thought! I actually had this set-up in my last kitchen (no sink in the island part though) and thought it was really crazy when we were first looking at the house, but ended up loving it! (it was more a half circle shape attached to the length of the island, and the table part was lower regular table height). It was perfect for our family of five. Only downside is I'd lose a lot of cabinet space then, right?

  • Lavender Lass
    9 years ago

    Probably, but is it space you need? Everyone seems to think bigger is better, but I am finding that smaller if forcing me to downsize to what I really need :)


  • autumn.4
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I really like (need) fridge by pantry at my house but it's just how it is with the kiddos. If it wasn't, they would be crossing through the work zone constantly. We have a snack drawer and it is next to the fridge as well. I don't see you'd have space for that with the fridge/sink/dw where it is. BUT, that's just me and my family. You may not have a problem with that at all. Our dining area is in the same proximity as yours and it's really no big deal to get cold items out of the fridge at meal time.

    I can't wait to see your island. We have 1 seat on the end (all we could fit) vs. 2 and dh and I always want that seat!

  • Buehl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With the T island, I think I would want to:

    (1) Move the island sink over another few inches to gain more prep space. The reason I had it in the middle in my layout was b/c of the seating on that side. Take away that seating, and you can have more prep space - I'd aim for at least 42". You could put a 6" or 9" cabinet on the one side of the sink (store cutting boards in it) and then the sink and then the rest of whatever you want. For example:

    1.5" counter overhang (includes 1" decorative door/end panel)

    + 6" cabinet (cabinet with single, movable shelf and, maybe, a drawer above for small items)

    + 18" sink base

    + 18" trash pullout

    + 24" MW Drawer

    + 1.5" counter overhang

    =====================

    = 69" wide

    This gives you approximately 45" of prep space - a very nice amount:

    1.5" overhang + 24" (over MW Drawer) + 18" (over trash pullout) + approx 1.5" next to the sink (b/c the sink will not take up the entire width of the cabinet so you gain approx 1.5" of counterspace immediately adjacent to the sink)

    Alternately, you could extend the island's width toward the bottom an inch or two and do the following:

    1.5" counter overhang (includes 1" decorative door/end panel)

    + 1" end panel (support for next cabinet....)

    + 6" filler pullout (it needs walls/cabinets on each side, hence the above end panel)

    + 18" sink base

    + 18" trash pullout

    + 24" MW Drawer

    + 1.5" counter overhang

    =====================

    = 70" wide...that makes the aisle "below" 48" wide

    .

    .

    (2) Leave the refrigerator across from the island and next to the range to minimize zone-crossing (refrigerator-to/from-Cooking Zone and refrigerator-to/from-island Prep Zone cross the Cleanup Zone) and to eliminate the "barrier" created by the island b/w the island Prep Zone and the refrigerator.

  • Buehl
    9 years ago

    Regarding loss of cabinet space in the island...to be honest, any cabinet under a seating overhang is not very accessible - especially deep ones like you're planning. In reality, a cabinet under a seating overhang shouldn't be much more than 15" or so deep. When a cabinet is under a seating overhang, you can't really use drawers or roll-out tray shelves (ROTS) b/c you can't get to them very well (unless you're under 36" tall!) You need storage that can be reached by leaning over and reaching in. Even with a 15" (or 12") deep cabinet under a seating overhang, you won't want to store frequently used items b/c it will be a hassle to get to them.

    When I drew up the layout above, I wrestled with making that 48" x 24"D cabinet under the seating overhang a 15" deep cabinet and voiding out the space b/w the cabinets on the other side (MW drawer & 24" cabinet). I did what I could by making the MW drawer & 24" cabinets 27" deep. But, to have the seating you seem to want and the minimum prep space recommended by the NKBA (36") required a wider island and I thought I'd throw in the deeper 48" cabinet space anyway.

    You have quite a large pantry, so you should have plenty of space for food as well as any other items that won't fit in the Kitchen itself. Oh, and you have quite a bit of cabinet storage in your kitchen already with upper cabinets and base cabinets, so I don't think you'd miss the cabinets you'd lose with a T island.

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago

    You asked for fridge/oven location input. I really think having the fridge next to the pantry makes sense if you go with a prep sink. If food is in pantry and with the fridge right there, you will be able to prep with very few steps. And then just turn around a cook. Very efficient!

    With the walkway behind the island seating, people will be able to easily access the fridge without coming into the work zone. That's a big plus.

    I wouldn't sweat people walking a few extra feet for condiments during dinner. It's far more important for you to have easy accessibility while cooking than it is for someone to more quickly grab the bottle of ketchup.

    If you decide not to do a prep sink, then you will want to have the ovens by the cooktop and fridge at the end nearer the dining table. Solely for accessibility while prepping at your main sink, not for the convenience of diner's.

    I really encourage you to have a prep sink in that island. Personally, if I bought your house, I would add one there. I'm dreaming of the day my remodel is done and I have a separate clean-up zone from my prep/cook area. It really does make things more efficient, allows for multiple activities in the kitchen at the same time, and is so very much worth the loss of counter space. You already have plenty of counter, imho.

  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Hey, good to hear you are still alive! And ready for round 3, or is it 4? :-)))

    For now, I will address your window question, since no one mentioned that yet.

    "Will it still look out of proportion?" Um...Yes.

    Oh, please, please don't put a 2' wide window above your sink. It doesn't matter what size sink base you pick 30", 33", 36". Btw, 33" sounds like a good compromise.

    I have looked at probably a gazillion pictures of kitchen sink windows. One thing in common is they always are at least the same size as the sink.

    A 36" wide window would be good because I think that is a standard stock size, so it shouldn't be a problem for your contractor to get. I'd get change moving first thing.

    I will think more on your other questions too....



  • autumn.4
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with rebunky - window as least the size of your sink base. I haven't ever heard anyone say they wish their window was smaller. You have a lot of uppers. If it were me, I'd definitely do the 48" window in beuhl's sketch. Even though it means a small loss in upper space in the scheme of things you still have a lot of cabinet space!

    Not sure what kind of sink you are planning but I did a 33" sink base thinking it would be 'no big deal' to find a single bowl sink and it was more of a pain than I thought. I think SS would have had more options but I ended up wanting silgranite and that limited me to the cascade precis which I DO like but it was the only one that would fit in the 33. The super single specs require a 34" base. Be sure you check that out before committing in case it effects your choice.

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    OK met with my KD this morning and she's drawing a couple options, one similar to what you guys presented, and then another with an idea for some open shelving incorporated.

    The windows are not stock unfortunately and I checked and it's a 4 week lead time. I highly doubt I can wait that long but I'll check with my contractor. That will be a major bummer.

    I found a picture what I think it will look like, it's not that bad is it?

    Originally my kitchen was smaller so I wanted to retain the cabinetry, and the entire exterior wall (opposite of pantry) is all windows. I literally have maybe one small 3 foot-ish wide wall area to even hang a piece of art in my entire main level (wall space to left of fireplace, the wall space to the right of fireplace is where the TV goes)! Kinda crazy.

    Come on tell me it's not terrible:


  • Lavender Lass
    9 years ago

    What about 2....2' wide windows? If you can't wait for a larger window, why not double up on the size available?

    My mom has a small window in her current kitchen...and she says it's the one thing she does NOT like about her kitchen.

  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Wow 4 weeks? Could they frame it out for the bigger window and then board it up with plywood or something until the window comes in?

    I look forward to seeing the different layouts your kd is working on....:-)

  • autumn.4
    9 years ago

    allison-it's a permanent thing. Is it that bad, no? It doesn't LOOK bad but ugh, give yourself some good light in there - I think you'd put it in and really really enjoy it vs. oh it's not that bad.


  • szruns
    9 years ago

    I think the fridge location could go either way, but I'd definitely lean towards swapping it with the ovens, but that's because in *my* house the "browser" traffic to the fridge is at least 50-100 trips a day, but the "chef" traffic is more like a dozen trips. When I'm cooking, I like to get all my stuff out of the fridge and at the ready in one or two trips instead of grabbing as I cook. But kids and others are constantly going in and out for drinks, condiments, snacks, etc . . . so I wanted my fridge convenient to snackers and browsers and diners. :) I also like keeping hot stuff far away from seating. :) Also, if you move the cooktop to that side wall, then also moving the ovens allows you to use the cooktop as a landing zone for hot stuff out of the oven, which I personally find very convenient. Also, if you leave the fridge where it is but move the cooktop, I don't like having the fridge (browsers, drink getters) so close to my cooktop and thus the fridge landing space (for drink prep) being right there by my cooktop. So, yes, I'd swap the ovens and the fridge.


    I do think moving the cooktop to the side wall is a *great* idea. That would be a huge improvement IMHO by increasing the workspace between the sink and the cooktop and separating the clean up zone from the cooking zone by some good workspace for both the clean up person and the chef. In my kitchen, when major cooking is underway or recently completed, it is not uncommon for me to have 36" or so of counter space (above the dishwasher and beyond) covered in hand washed items drying -- piles of cookie sheets, large pots, knives, crystal, etc, so I need at least that much space on the "clean" side of my sink free for that without impinging on cooking/working/serving/prep areas. Meanwhile, I need at least 24" free on the "dirty" side of my sink for the stacks of dishes awaiting processing/loading into the dishwasher and/or sink for washing. So, that means my cleanup zone really needs (and has) 8 linear feet of space for the 24" dirty counter + 36-39" sink base + 36" clean space. I have that much space for it, and it all gets used. (My trash pull out is under the "dirty" side of the sink . . . but you could tuck it under your sink base if you plan it right and have a compatible sink and plumbing locations.)


    I'd absolutely die (obviously not really, but still) if I didn't have a trash pull out near the "dirty" side of my sink for scraping dishes. If you can't fit the main trash pull out there and want it over by your prep/cooktop area (assuming you do move it to the side wall), then I'd only do that if I could fit a second nice trash pull out UNDER my dish sink. Even if that sink pullout is a bit smaller than the typical kitchen trash pull out, it'd be sufficient for me. Not ideal, though, and I'd really try to have it to the side of the sink.


    FWIW, our dishwasher opens to a 42" aisle (45" cabinet to cabinet), and walking by it when it is open is no problem at all. It's not in a super high traffic zone, but we do walk by and around it when it is open all the time without any trouble.


    I wouldn't go crazy about the window size, even though I do agree that a wider window would be better. If you do stick with the smaller window, do be careful to keep your cabinets away from it a bit, as the cabinetry crowding the window will block even more light.


    I'd definitely give up that under-counter cabinetry where your seating is. Make the island a bit narrower, allow 18-21" overhang for diners, and let go of the idea of using cabinets for storage under there. It'd be super awkward to access, and cabinets cost $$ . . . redirect that $$ to other items on your wish list. If you cabinets are custom, you could make those island cabinets extra deep (say 30") which will dramatically increase their storage capacity. (I have just one stack of 30" deep drawers, and I swear they have twice as much capacity as the standard depth ones, although I know that is mathematically impossible, lol.)

    happyallison thanked szruns
  • szruns
    9 years ago

    Here is my try . . .


    Obviously, move the window over the new sink location.


    Prep sink is optional, but IME, it will make the island much more versatile.


    happyallison thanked szruns
  • funkycamper
    9 years ago

    I need to pay more attention to windows as this is the second time this week I haven't noticed the lack of windows. We're all different so this might not be an issue for you, happyallison, but natural light and outside views in the kitchen make me enjoy working in my kitchen it. Even if I had the most efficient layout, beautiful cabinets and other finishes, high-end appliances and virtually no windows or natural light, I would hate my kitchen. I'm mostly a function over form person except about this issue. I would gladly give up some storage or other efficiency to get more windows.

    And a wall of windows clear across the room wouldn't cut it for me either.

    I think you need to think through whether those uppers are really that necessary. And your contractor could always do what rebunky suggested. It's easy to frame it, board it up, and add the window later.

    I really think Autumn said it best: "it's a permanent thing. Is it that bad, no? It doesn't LOOK bad but ugh, give yourself some good light in there - I think you'd put it in and really really enjoy it vs. oh it's not that bad."

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'm going to try regarding the windows, and it 'may' be possible. I'm double-checking with my contractor on timing. However the timing of it is windows, window trim, siding. I'm not sure how he could leave it just framed and covered, but never hurts to ask. We can have no further delays at this point. Something as small as that (I know not small to you guys:) could delay crews of people so it ain't going to fly if that's the case.

  • Lavender Lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So...did you ask if he could do two windows, rather than one? Does he have two 2' windows available?

    Not exact, but two windows will give you a lot more light :)

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well, I actually ordered the windows on my own before this contractor was involved (using the other contractor who just flaked out on me). For my budget I found some Okna windows (which the good folks on the Window forum highly recommended to me over the other couple brands I was considering for the same budget). The weird thing about the Okna is every window is custom ordered, they don't just keep stock sizes. Well at least this is what my dealer has told me. It's not like a regular brand like at HD or something similar where they may keep stock sizes in stock. This is a small window dealer. :( I think this time of year is really busy too, because it was a 2 week lead time when I ordered my last round of windows, and now it's 4. I'm not giving up hope, but I'm thinking I can't change it.

  • happyallison
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    There are also some issues on measurement I reviewed with the designer (such as having wall space for crown molding to die into on the wall with the pantry and proposed cooktop.

    With a 130" wall, it leaves only a 15" cabinet between fridge (yes, I do prefer fridge closer to cooktop I decided and a super susan which I think I prefer). We can extend that wall 3" since it's not built, we just start to cover the door to the garage up in a less proportional way when you are viewing the garage door straight on. Is 15" enough, or do you extend the wall and not worry about a door that looks really awkwardly placed with a wall blocking part of the view of it?

  • rebunky
    9 years ago

    Could you call the Okna dealer and see if they happen to have any extra windows from a return or ordering mistake? Worth a shot.

    Another thought... Could you get one of the other in stock brands from HD or lowes that would look the same style as the Okna ones you are using?

    We have several different brands and styles of windows in our house and I really cannot tell one brand from the next as they are mostly all the white vinyl.

    Since that kitchen window will not be close to any other windows, would it really be noticed if it was a different brand?

  • Lavender Lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In the overall scheme (and expense) of a remodel, I would go buy another window(s) for that location.

    You can reuse the Okna window elsewhere or even sell it on Craigslist. Either way, it wouldn't slow down your remodel. And I'd MUCH rather have the light :)