Here's the one with the shallow pantry and a range. The microwave is on a shelf under the upper cabinets in the bottom right corner.
The plan was the have shoes and coats in the back hall. The 3'cubby by the back door is a possible spot for an extra fridge.

Hi Tammy,

I'd been wondering how you were doing.

Best piece of advice I can give you is that the cooking appliances are the most important part of the kitchen. They're the tools that are least interchangeable and will have the greatest effect on your enjoyment of cooking. It's not that you can't cook on anything, it's about ease, enjoyment and satisfaction.

I didn't really think about it until recently, because I thought it was normal, but while everyone is touting how much counter space and cabinetry is an absolute must, my mother's kitchen is about 12'x7' including a main entry transit, with 7 burners and two different waist high ovens with different functions. And a large fridge and DW (spare fridge and freezer in the garage). When we were cooking for 50 people, we also put portable appliances on the dryer, used the breakfast room table for a work surface and staging, etc. That is, kitchen work spilled out into other rooms. But the cooking appliances were paramount.

You're not happy on a 30" range. Listen to yourself. Whether you'll be happier with a wall oven or 36" range only you can know.

Pantries are great wherever they are and however they're shaped. Some of my pantry storage is in my laundry room. I'm considering getting a wine cabinet or something to free up some pantry space in the kitchen. Pantries hold slightly less than you want to put in them, no matter what the size.

Choose the cooking setup that works best for you, and be grateful you have a pantry in the kitchen no matter what the shape and size.

Thanks plllog. :) yes, I am still trying to get this in order. LOL

I hear what you are saying and agree...but budget it also a factor. From what I can tell, it looks like a separate cooktop/oven is double the cost of a range. But I guess I am comparing the larger cooktop to a 30" range. so that's not really apples to apples.

Is there a "cheapest" option out there that still has decent function? I keep searching but just don't seem to get anywhere. If money were no object I'm sure it wouldn't be nearly this difficult to decide. ;-)

The house will be all electric, so I have looked into induction cooktops as well.

Then again, maybe a 30" wouldn't be bad if I had room elsewhere in the kitchen. All my kitchens so far have been so cramped that I used my stove top to put other things besides pans. Right now (temp home) I literally have NO counter around my range. It is truly free standing. LOL There is only one other spot of counter so I am often shuffling items back and forth during meal prep.

Buy a portable induction burner or two and plan in a dedicated wiring run for them. That way they don't eat up valuable space unless you really need the capacity, and your budget isn't thousands over.

I can't help on layout, or how appliances function. Can you do a range top over a built in oven? I'm not sure how 'off' a larger cooktop over a built in oven would look, but it seems like it could be done with some creativity and maybe a couple of narrow pullouts.

If you're open to used, I bet you could find a newer oven or cooktop on CL. Sears outlet has some pretty good deals on scratch and dents and refurbished appliances. Even our local big box home improvement stores usually have a floor/display model or two available. Sears and big box still have the valid manufacturer's warranty if that's a concern.

I bought my 36" Thermador on CL for less than what I was going to end up paying for the cheapest 30" gas range I could find. I love having the 6 burners! Very rarely are all 6 going at once (maybe 2-3 times a year for family gatherings), but I often have 3 large pans going that would not fit on a 30", no matter how hard I tried. I also enjoy the ability to slide things around. I'm pretty sure I couldn't go back to 30". What I could do without is the 36" oven. It takes forever to pre-heat and aside from Thanksgiving or a "I should make a bunch of pies" day, I don't use anywhere close to 36". I certainly don't think it's any faster cooking an oven full at once rather than split up into 2 or 3 smaller loads.

If I'm reading your layout right, I don't get it. Why have your sink against a wall and the DW under the window? I would have the sink under the window and the DW immediately next to it. That way, all plumbing runs are in the same spot, making it easier and less expensive to do.

I would put the range where the sink is located in the layout, extend the base with a corner lazy susan, move the fridge next to the LS and use the rest of that wall opposite the windows for floor to ceiling pantries.

I'm not a designer, but after working for years in a less than optimum kitchen, I've learned the value of the working triangle. And the misery of working at a sink up against a wall. Ugh.

I, too, am shopping like a crazy woman for a stove. I have nixed the wall oven/cooktop in favor of a 30" range. I can afford a really nice 5-burner range, but not the combo oven/cooktop. Too expensive and takes up too much counterspace.

I agree w the other posters about taking your time to think through your appliance set up. What about the current range has you jammed? Is it the burner configuration? The grates or lack of grates? Something in particular that you cook often?

I could use a 5th burner very frequently and often wish for a sixth burner. But I only had room for a 30" range. Continuous grates make a big difference for me. I still juggle but it's so much roomier on the new range than the old 30" range. Going to see or mocking up configurations can help get a feel for things.

Our budget was skewed toward our appliances; getting the right size and best function for our small space. But do make a wish list as well as a budget. Sears has great scratch and dent specials. And I got our frig from a local appliance place; discount for a dent on the door and then they replaced the door at no charge to me.

A portable induction hob is on my Christmas list.

tomato-No the large sink (it looks small in my pic sorry) is under the large window and the dw is directly to the left of it. Then there is a smaller prep sink in the island.

I actually like the layout afa where the fridge/freezer, sink/dw and cooktop are located. I have the prep sink near the fridge. There is shallow storage in the island by the prep sink for things like potatoes, apples, bananas, onions and garlic. My only concerns are if I should do/can I afford a separate oven/cooktop and if so, where should the oven go and how should the pantry look?

Jennifer - You can only get grates with a gas stove right? We will be all electric.

I don't know exactly what it is that drives me batty about the current stovetop. Part of it could very well be that other things tend to find their way there due to lack of counter space elsewhere. If I have something on the spoonrest I can't get to the spoon handle without burning myself on a pan. So with more counter space next to the cooktop I'm sure that would be remedied.

A basic dinner for our family might be:

-some sort of meat/dish in a large pot
-rice in a 4qt
-veggies in a large pot
-maybe some other random item in a small pan - like a sauce or really expensive side dish that we are rationing. ;-)
-or I might do up some eggs for my egg eating bunch

We have allergies in the family so I tend to make things separate like this so we can serve people whatever it is they can eat.

When I use the oven it is for things like chicken, potatoes, beef stew...Usually my oven is completely full when I use it to get the best bang for my buck. Like we may only eat 5 potatoes at dinner but I will go ahead and bake the whole bag while I am doing it and use them later in the week. I'll do a few whole chickens at a time. That sort of thing. But I admittedly do not use my oven every day. More in the winter. I don't bake a lot. But when I do, it's in larger amounts that I freeze for later.

Really though, it looks like I cannot afford the separate configuration. So I should probably stop dreaming. I like the idea of getting the extra induction burner. I do have a lovely electric skillet that I adore and use often. I'm sure whatever we end up with will be 100x better than what I have right now.

mrs - We are not at all opposed to used or scratch and dent. :)

That's a good point about how long the larger oven takes to preheat. I have wondered about those ranges with double ovens, one smaller than the other, for that reason.

A rice cooker is a great small appliance if you make rice often. We make rice often. My rice cooker gave me a burner back. A good one doesn't have to be expensive. At least ours wasn't.

Have your looked on the appliance forum or asked for feedback on induction top ranges? I did a quick search on ajmadison and there seem to be a couple that are reasonable, with good reviews. I too wouldn't like to wait for a 36" oven to heat up. At least that's a plus for the 30" range! (Sorry, I didn't realize you are on electric in your current home and not just the new build.)

And I second CL, as well as ebay. Once you figure out what you want, there are deals to be had if you are willing to work to find it. Sometimes, you don't have the luxury of time to do that search of course.....

Good luck.

Fwiw, I've bought all my appliances through Sears Outlet. I stalked what I wanted via the website, and for smaller items I waited until I could find something within pickup distance to avoid the delivery fees (which can be annoyingly high especially as other online retailers often don't charge when you're spending hundreds of dollars or more.) I bought a GE Café double oven range, range hood, KA counterdepth fridge, and a Bosch 800 series dishwasher this way. None actually have noticeable flaws (hint: if the item description says "tested," that means it was a floor model.) The dishwasher is a headache, since it came without a power cord which no one realized and it has been a comedy of errors to track one down, but otherwise everything looks and functions perfectly.

Also, Best Buy also has floor models searchable online, if you go to the clearance section of the web page and click on open box.

Others here have had great luck on CL and Ebay.

Jennifer - A rice cooker is on my wishlist once we get more space. I was thinking it could go in that corner where I would put crockpots.

Small-Thanks for the info about online purchasing of these appliances. I would like to get a list of final decisions so I know what to shop for.

I think it is also about scale - you have 2 sinks, pantry, and large refrigerator. A 30" range seems out of proportion and for a kitchen of this size I would expect either a larger range (with 2 ovens) or a 36" cooktop. You will not regret it. I would look to economize elsewhere - perhaps delay putting in a backsplash or less expensive countertops. Also a closet pantry costs less than pantry cabinets. BTW, I use a rice cooker but when I cook it, I put it on one of my unused burners with the exhaust on. There is a lot of steam that comes from the rice cooker and I wouldn't want that under any cabinets.

Fwiw, I bought a beautiful black French door fridge in excellent condition for $149 at Goodwill a few years ago. It was nearly new, no dents or scratches, and I've had no problems with it. About a week ago, I found another, a 36" side-by-side, also like new for $159 - and I had a 20% off coupon! You just never know what you'll find if you haunt the thrift stores. At a Salvation Army store, I picked up a *new* GE washer/dryer pair for $240.

If you have a Habitat for Humanity ReStore near you, you'll often find beautiful appliances for way less than new. I cruised through a ReStore last week and found 3 or 4 glasstop ranges in great condition for about $200 each.

Sorry I didn't get your layout right. I still would separate the range and fridge though. If you find the right cooktop/wall oven, they should be right next to each other with a bit of space on both sides to set things off.

Btw, I am looking for a gas range (can *not* find one) and at all the discount stores (like the ones I mentioned) I mostly see really, really nice wall oven/cooktops. That's what was in the kitchen we tore out; now I'm beginning to regret that.

Can you do a range top over a built in oven?

There's really no point in that, if you don't have other objections to a range (aesthetics, burner layout, size of oven)

And the misery of working at a sink up against a wall. Ugh.

This is when I always say 'know thyself'. I couldn't care less that my sink is against the wall.

If I have something on the spoonrest I can't get to the spoon handle without burning myself on a pan.

Induction!

Like we may only eat 5 potatoes at dinner but I will go ahead and bake the whole bag while I am doing it and use them later in the week. I'll do a few whole chickens at a time

That's very clever, something I should have thought of years ago!

Thanks all.

I didn't know rice cookers let off steam like that. I need to research before purchase but I was putting it off since I'm not getting one now. Good to know!

I hadn't thought of a built in oven under a cooktop. I guess it would get me a bigger cooktop but too an oversized oven. Seems like a waste of extra money to still have to bend over for the oven though. LOL

We do have a Habitat Restore in the next town over. I need to get in there and see what it's like.

As for budget - I am trying to balance and maybe do some things later. BUT I know that whatever doesn't get done NOW will most likely not get done for 20+ years. ;-) So I need to be realistic about what I wait on.

tammyte- the problem with going with a 30" now is you are forever boxed in to that 30". i know as my kitchen had a 30" and i tried to figure out a way a 36" would work in my newly renoed kitchen alas it is just too darn small! that said i was on a tight budget and not in my forever home so it worked out just fine to stay with the 30". i looked at double ovens and hated them so i went with a larger oven with 5 burners. my ge is gas and the griddle burner sold me since we were doing pancakes on a large griddle across 2 burners.
long winded advice is do the 36" now and nix something else if necessary.