An 1835 log cabin kitchen, selling 'as is' - OT

13 years ago

I have been asked to ch*ir a committee to raffle an 1835 moved and rebuilt cabin for the owners and our preservation/Main Street organization. I know this forum has some pretty amazing minds, those who can see a situation from many sides. I would appreciate some critical thinking on the benefits and pitfalls of the project and the process.

Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to release pictures of the property at this time. I will as soon as I can. The kitchen is just amazing. It is of course unfitted with a Roper(?) gas stove and cast iron drainboard sink, a work table, and a pantry (that is where the refriger*tor is).

Anyway, if you would help me decide whether or not to take this on, the link on the Old House forum is below.

Thanks,

Judy

Here is a link that might be useful: 1835 cabin

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Comments (6)

beachpea3
13 years ago
Several thoughts:

1. Has rthe Preservation group hired an attorney
2. Has an appraisal been done by the Preservation group and the homeowner? How will a minimum bid be determined.
3. Is the Preservation group a 501C3 - non-profit group? If yes, how is the income being handled.
4. How are home inspections being handled? When would a winner have the inspection, etc. What happens if the inspection is done after the drawing and the winner backs out.
5. What are your state's rules/laws about raffles.
6. How will the raffle be conducted. What sort of disclaimers will be needed, etc.

As a Realtor and a Preservationist I can keep going...but you get my drift. Get sound legal and professional advice and then have fun with it.
cotehele
Original Author
13 years ago
Appraising the property has been one of the problems the owners are having. There is no property with which to compare. That is one reason the owners want to raffle the property. There is little chance they could get anything near the value with an outright sale. A realtor looked at it and had no clue where to begin assessing value. With your interest and background, what would you suggest for getting an accurate appraisal?

We are hoping for a low appraisal to keep the taxes as low as possible. The tax liability would be significant. A cousin of one of our members is in bankruptcy because she could not pay the income taxes on a won property and could not get a mortgage. We plan to have a survey and proven clear title to the property before we begin ticket sales.

We are considering a ticket price of $500 - $1,000 as well as specifying the value of the property and alerting the potential buyers of tax liability. We hope those steps attract only financially responsible buyers. A cash prize alternative is a possibility. We are checking to see if we are required to offer that as an option. If ticket sales are poor, I would be surprised. A number of people across the country have expressed interest in purchasing the property over the years. However it is always a possibility. We are considering a 50/50 split of the ticket sales after expenses if we have not sold the minimum number of tickets by the deadline date. The owner and HP group will share 50 percent.

The HP group is a 501 (c)(3). We had already applied for a gaming licence and will get the raffle approval from the state, oversee the raffle and collect the money. The day of closing, the owners will give us a quit claim deed, we will pay for the house (their cut), and transfer the house to the winner.

The house will be open for inspection to any who (plans to) purchase raffle ticket(s). Would a potential owner find value in a home inspection done by the non-profit and available to view? It will be sold 'as is' with full disclosure of known issues. Again, hopefully no one would purchase a raffle ticket who would decline ownership. Thanks for bringing up the possibility. We will look into it.

We and the owners have already consulted with a tax attorney and CPA who have been involved with house raffles in the state. Both parties must agree on all the details, and we will have a detailed contract before proceeding.

It should be fun, but a lot of work.

Thanks,
Judy
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beachpea3
13 years ago
Judy,
Sounds like you have covered many bases.
As far as putting a price on it - are you in an area with other early 1800's properties - even if larger an appraiser can adjust for the size and/or plus or minus the amount land, the location, etc. He.She might also have to look at some older sales and adjust for the down economy. Appraisal of antique dwellings are always challenging but not impossible!

A ticket price of $1,000 is really quite high to gamble on winning this cabin - especially in this economy. I would think something in a range of $250 - $500 would be more appropriate - or even lower. It would very much depend on where you are located.

In a situation where the condition is "as is"... having the property open for a day or two would be important so that those who wish could have their inspectors go through the property. It might be nice to have the current homeowner have a home inspection - but it would have to be stated that the buyer could not rely on the information, etc.

Best wishes for you and the homeowner. Please put some pictures of that amazing kitchen, etc when you are in the raffle selling stage.

Cheers!

Wendy
sombreuil_mongrel
13 years ago
It could be sticky in that another party (the property owners) will profit (if the house sells for more than they have in it) by the labors expended by a non-profit's agency. If the owners are in any way officers or present/past employees of the non-profit, that would be a major red flag.
If the owners did all the work (of selling tickets and marketing/advertising) then held the raffle and donated whatever amount of the proceeds to the non-profit, that would be legal and tax-deductible. I'm just not sure how the IRS would look upon a 501c3 group working for the benefit of another individual.
I used to be executive director of a small town preservation group, and later an officer of a Main Street project. Not a tax attorney.
Casey
beachpea3
13 years ago
sombreuil_mongrel makes a very good point. Hopefully your tax accountant/attorney can give you the guidance on these conflict issues and then disclose, disclose, disclose!
cotehele
Original Author
13 years ago
Wendy, ticket prices are not set, but I agree $1,000 is a little steep. It will likely be lower. The owners plan to have open house several times to give people access. I doubt there are any early 19th century log cabins around. I know there is a restored 1840 brick home, I was the preservation consultant. Not sure how to compare a brick house with a rebuilt log cabin.

Casey, all of the concerns have been addressed by the state raffle regulations. They require a non-profit to hold the raffle. No one related to a member of the organization may buy a ticket. The owners of the property are not members of the organization, however a sister is on the board.

I still think this could be a very worthwhile endeavor for our Main Street/Preservation group. And we can have some fun while we are at it.

Judy

An 1835 log cabin kitchen, selling 'as is' - OT

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An 1835 log cabin kitchen, selling 'as is' - OT

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