Well I looked at that house expecting to see a lot of "clutter" and I just don't see it. I see a house that is tastefully decorated in a period appropriate way. What a beautiful home and it definitely looks like it's been well cared for by the current owners.

Someone who is looking for a tract house probably won't even look at it to begin with and I think it would be a mistake to try to appeal to that aesthetic. I don't think it's over the top at all...I think it's warm, homey, cozy and has fantastic vibes. It says "I'm a home" to me, but then again I'm an old house person.

I think a potential buyer will have to appreciate the period decorating. I'm with everyone else who says it's too cutesy, gimmicky and over the top in decorating/clutter.

In the room with the checked wing chairs, my eye was immediately drawn to the oval area rug under the table. The swirls from the rug and the checks from the chairs made me dizzy.

For me, a kitchen needs to be functional. With all the stuff in there, it looks like you can't even cook.

I appreciate this is an historic home and I would walk through, but I wouldn't even consider buying it. Not everyone will maintain the period decorations and they will have alot of work to do to remove wallpaper and neutralize.

By attracting those who appreciate and understand the era decorating, I think potential buyers are severely limited.

JMHO.

Great style of house and beautiful garden. I do have to say that I would so hate to pack up her house to move. It makes my head spin- so much stuff. :)

It appears many of you don't appreciate Victorian. It isn't my taste either but I can see how beautifully it is done and without doubt someone looking for a Victorian will too. It would be out of place in the Historic distric if it were neutal or PB.

It isn't my taste either but I can see how beautifully it is done and without doubt someone looking for a Victorian will too.

I totally get that. My point is that their buyer pool is limited given the type of home. I wonder what percentage of buyers would be interested in such a home that have an appreciation for the era decorating?

Perhaps location will help in that people are aware of the period homes? I don't know.

OHG, I can't imagine people really live in there. I'm sorry, but I think it is terribly overshadowed by the large houses right next to it and by all the 'things' inside. It appears like touristy stores which sell souvenirs of the area.

It is way too overdone to sell as a home.

OOHHHHH, I loooove it! I would love it more if the exterior was painted in a pale shade of pink :) If I only lived closer and it was in my price range. *sigh*

I think you have to really appreciate the era to love it and to each their own. I think it is beautiful!

It appears like touristy stores which sell souvenirs of the area.

I couldn't put my finger on it, but now that you mention it, you are exactly right.

It's just not my cup of tea. Everything is so busy and I just see it as alot of work to renovate.

the picture on her listing is so nice without the bunting, she should remove it as soon as possible; victorian style lovers will adore this house, so typical.

Love the exterior, painting one of these houses is very time consuming. We have a bunch of houses like these in a neighboring town, so seeing this is something that's every day for me. The painting is pretty conservative compared to some over here.

Been trying to figure out how someone converts a log cabin to a Victorian. To me, she has a few different decorating styles going on, some (early American I think it's called) which don't seem to fit the house. I love the living room, dining room & guest bedroom, to me they are decorated more so for this style house. I'm sure the pictures don't do the house justice, would love to visit and walk around to see her various collections :)

Must have been hard putting the house up for sale after putting so much time into it. I know I wouldn't want to leave.

Good luck to your sister. Hopefully someone else will appreciate all they've done to it.

We have owned a couple historic homes. Our furniture is American antique representing the period c. 1750-1850. The accessories in our home are appropriate to that era. The only modern pieces we own are the upholstered pieces & we've chosen to make a stark contrast to the rest of our home with those pieces. We have never had a problem selling our historic homes. People who don't like the particular era don't come to look. There is actually a high demand for historic homes that remain truthful to their heritage. I saw nothing in the above example of a Victorian home that needed "updating"? From the pictures, it appears to be beautifully in balance.

This house was built during the end of the Victorian period in America. Styles were losing the heavy dark look inspired by Queen Victoria's mourning for her husband's death. (She went into mourning at his death & remained in mourning throughout the remainder of her life).

The country was hungry for opulence, color, & a new society decorum. Even landscaping was losing its classical design. Bedding plants became all the rage & roses & begonias were planted by the thousands so even the landscaping on the above home is representative of its time in American history. If one was weathy enough, conservatories overflowing with ferns, tropical plants, & wicker furniture were coveted. After decades of austere mourning for Prince Albert, the 1890's Victorians sought frivalous abundance & proudly displayed their tokens of wealth throughout their homes. Eastern inspired home decor was enormously popular & mixed openly with English china. Our example here of a "Painted Lady" is reflecting the era in a wonderfully recreated home. Even the wallpapers were chosen for authenticity to the period. Florals and more florals were popular.

Somebody noted the mixing of plaid/checkered fabrics with braided rugs. This is completely appropriate as homeowners combined generations of home furnishings. Around the time of the American Centennial celebrations, the collecting of American antiques & genealogical research became prominent American diversions reflecting pride in their country's history. We started seeing reproductions of early American Chippendale & Queen Anne furniture along with the "modern" Victorian furniture you can see some of in this home.

Etiquette, cleanliness, parlors, and gardening were all components of the finer Victorian lifestyle, as seen earlier in England. Manuals of etiquette were intended to shape character & popular reading material for the late Victorian-era lady. Body cleanliness was almost an obsession, due in part to outbreaks of disease. Material culture and objects increased in their importance. Parlors were a place to display ones wealth as well as oneÂs family history. Asian objects such as fans and screens were particularly of interest, and displayed prominently. Meals, in a home such as our example, would have been 6-8 courses each & one would have "dressed" for dinner seven nights a week. The original lady of this home would have owned many dishes including a separate service for 12-24 designed just for the fish course. Labor was cheap. Materials were expensive. Household servants were common even in less affluent homes.

There is nothing "gimmacky" about this home. It's true to its period. And anybody driving through New England on a summer day will see hundreds of historic homes proudly dressed in American buntings. Around a New England village's town square (usually round so don't know why they are called "squares"?) it's not unusual to see every building either flying flags or dressed in bunting. My New England village puts out all the flags & bunting this week lining our streets with displays of American pride.

This late Victorian-era coincides with the beginning of the Gilded Age of American society. People like DuPont, Rockefeller, & Vanderbilt were building their mansions in New York & their "summer cottages" in Newport. Those homes represent the pinnacle of American obsession with opulence & material possessions.

Please excuse my indulgence with the short history. I love American antiques & have been a collector for 30 years plus. I'm also a genealogist & through that hobby it's almost impossible not to learn a bit about the many transformations our country has gone through. I hope somebody will find it fun to learn just a peek at how late-Victorian era Americans lived.

Tricia

According to the listing, the house is in Purcellville, VA, which is in Loudoun County, a Washington, DC suburb. I have been to the city; it is lovely, but there is lots of new construction.

The photos are really done well. Kudos to the agent if she took them. I'm surprised she included the one with the cat in it.

For the right person, this is a dream home.

Coming from someone who buys exclusively new const now and in the past had not even gone in a lot of resales because of clutter or lack of curb appeal... but I would go out of my way to take a look at that house. I've always been fascinated by Victorians and the town looks charming. I may not buy it but I'd definitely want to take a look at it.

Oh one more thing.
Take that satellite dish off the roof! Put it on a long pole in the yard... anything but the roof. It's like disrespecting a house like that to put a dish on the roof. Great pics. Lots of history in that house.

Tricia, thank you so much for the info! Must have taken a while to type out. I now see why the rooms vary with the decorating style.

Wow. I'd buy it just for the view from the porch. That home is beautiful. It is definitely decorated in a style that is appropriate to the home, but not necessarily in my taste. That given, I think that anyone interested in purchasing a historic home will be more interested in the architectural features and the integrity of the home. I love that old stove in the kitchen, and I also like the overall layout of the home. It's truly a lovely home.

I only purchase new construction, but I live on an island in FL and we have a cheerful island home. This Victorian is one of the most cheerful homes I have ever seen. Love it but couldn't live in it!

Good luck to your sister! She has served that house very well! Wonderful!

Hi Zoe - I'm so glad that you shared your sister's beautiful home with us.... I know I certainly enjoyed the tour and found her home to be absolutely beautiful !!!

Tricia - thank you for enlightening us to historic homes and period decorating.... I certainly learned a lot and appreciate the time you took to give us some detailed and understandable explanation.

As for those of you who were so criticial.... Good Golly - was it really necessary to post such nasty remarks?? If a home is not of your taste - then that's just it - it's not your taste.... So why bother spewing such negative comments on how you'd never purchase an older home... or you wouldn't want to dust all that "stuff"..... or it's too close to the house next door. Last time I looked, it was a pretty big world made of many "unique" people with diversified interests.... Which is what makes life so interesting....

I might not like everything about your house - but I'd post something nice about what I did like.... and if I didn't find anything to my liking - I'd just skip posting at all.....

Again Zoe, I find your sister's home just lovely.... The street scene reminds me of Harper's Ferry, West Virginia.

It must be hard for her to leave this beautiful home... They've obviously put a lot of hard work into bringing it to where it is today. It's obvious it's a home that has been truly loved.

Wishing her the best in selling this home and much happiness in their new home.

janice

As for those of you who were so criticial.... Good Golly - was it really necessary to post such nasty remarks?? If a home is not of your taste - then that's just it - it's not your taste.... So why bother spewing such negative comments on how you'd never purchase an older home... or you wouldn't want to dust all that "stuff"..... or it's too close to the house next door. Last time I looked, it was a pretty big world made of many "unique" people with diversified interests.... Which is what makes life so interesting....

Because there will be a large number of people who will think the same thing when they view the home.

Many people post links here asking for feedback and declutter, paint, remove that dated furniture, etc., are always suggestions.

I can guarantee that people walking through that home will have the exact same reaction as those of us who think negatively of it on this board. There will also be people who love it. My point is because it's so period specific, that the buyer pool may be limited to those who absolutely love that style.

I'm one of those who has difficulty getting past decorating styles, so this home would be a total no go for me.

Many people post links here asking for feedback and declutter, paint, remove that dated furniture, etc., are always suggestions.

While it may be hard for some to read, being on my end where I am buying and selling, I've tried to take every comment as input that I might get when readying my house. I probably wouldn't have packed most of my stuff up had it not been for input in this forum. I hope that what I've learned here will help me both ways. I've also painted one room due to what I've read here and will paint our blue living room this week although I didn't plan to until the other day when someone else posted with a blue room.

I do hope that posters realize that it is what it is, input. Everyone has a different opinion, it shouldn't be taken too seriously.

We've had a few posts here where people asked for input, got honest answers; they either changed it or not. Some have come back to say they took the advice and their house sold quickly. I'm thankful I found this forum :)

I can guarantee that people walking through that home will have the exact same reaction as those of us who think negatively of it on this board. There will also be people who love it. My point is because it's so period specific, that the buyer pool may be limited to those who absolutely love that style.

And yet is this any different from those of us who will look at a home built in the past 15 years and think "tacky McMansion with no style"?

There are a LOT of house styles that a LOT of people are turned off by. I think it's unrealistic to expect a period style house (of ANY period - Victorian, art deco, whatever) to be transformed on the inside to some sterile beige box.

When someone looks at the outside in this case, they see a Victorian. I would be willing to bet a FAR higher percentage of people would be turned off and automatically strike this house off of their list if the owners had attempted to remove any trace of Victorian style on the inside. Those that aren't into the "over the top" Victorian details will see the woodwork on the outside that will need some attention every few years and will put the house off of their list anyway.

Anyone who owns ANY house (including a brand new house) will (hopefully) know that there are aspects that some people will dislike. That doesn't mean that they won't find the right buyer or that they should change the basic character of their house, it just means that they have real human non clones looking. =)

roselvr- I totally agree. The feedback here is invaluable. The person to whom the feedback is addressed is free to take the advice or disregard it. You make a valid point that the comments are to be helpful. Not everyone is going to like every type of house.

ultraviolet - I agree with you too. Each person has a different style to which they are attracted. I think there are ways to keep a period home within that era without going over the top.

For me, it wasn't necessarily the interior of the house, but the strong decorating that was dizzying in some rooms.

ultraviolet,

Very well said...

I refer to homes that have been neutralized, sanitized, family pictures removed, decluttered, etc. as "HGTV Style" & personally detest it. And, you are correct...in that it also is a "style" of decorating. To me, a colonial-style home should evoke feelings of hearth & home. To enter one that has been "HGTV'd" would create just the opposite effect on me. Instead of homey, it would feel cold & sterile.

Sparksal, I also believe it's wrong to assume that most people don't like a particular style just because you don't. I see late-Victorian styled bric-a-brac at many stores. Retailers wouldn't be selling it if nobody liked it, would they? Whether it's beaded lamps or lace pillow tops...there's way too much of it available to be the fancy of only a small sampling of our population. I giggled a bit when I read your comment that you can't see past people's decorating style. You'd have problems in my home, I'm afraid. Most of our stuff is pre-1850. Whew, talk about "dated"!! :) I prefer to look at it as "timeless" and "bullet-proof" for decorating. I don't ever have to worry about "updating" because my decorating has become stale.

I've posted a picture of one of our dressers stripped of the family pictures that normally adorn it & its candles since I know from here that some are offended by candle scents & mine are beeswax so they have a slight perfume even unlit...pardon the closed blinds...too much sun...I couldn't get a clear pictures. OK, be honest now. How many of you, if you didn't know that it was c. 1835, signed by the maker, has two "safe" drawers, & valued at $17K, would suggest to me that I "update" my furniture? lol Don't try to spoof me now. I've seen threads here where a person had a few antique pieces & posters suggested they be removed 'cause they were, "dark, heavy, & (the dreaded) dated". :)

Everyone has preferences and thank goodness we do. What a boring world it would be if every home in America was neutralized.

Tricia

The point, however, is that neither the owner nor her sister who posted the photos asked for our staging critiques:

Hi, My sister is selling her home in Hillsboro, Virginia (near West Virginia border) It was originally an old log cabin that was added on. They have spent many hours over about 15 years upgrading the home and it is now on the market. (The new metal roof alone cost them $18k to replace). She has a great sales sign for the home that they made and painted. I thought I would share. Enjoy!

Selling a house should appeal to the largest audience you can get. The bottom line is you are 'selling your house' not your decorating style. If you are just showcasing your home there are walking-tours where people can enjoy seeing various examples of historical homes and styles of decorating.

If you have tons of time to let your house sit on the market hoping for the minority who wants a period house decorated as such, that's fine. But for most people, they want to sell their house quickly for the best price.

There are only two reasons I can think of why someone would start a thread here with pics of a home for sale. One would be to get free advertising for the house, and I think all of us here have very kindly assumed that's not the case with the OP. Therefore, the remaining reason would be to get comments/feedback on the house. Since this is a discussion forum, I'm not sure why anyone would expect to post this and not get some comments. If we all just said "nice house!" how useful is that to anyone? We can all go look on the mls if we want to see pics of great Victorian houses for sale. However, last time I checked, this was a discussion forum, for the purposes of useful and honest discussion meant to be interesting and helpful.

I don't think anyone here was rude to the OP -- just gave honest reactions, which should be useful to the OP. If she doesn't find it useful, or didn't intend to hear it, then she should not have posted the link on a discussion forum.

Triciae: The house is really beautiful. The rosebushes are to die for! My point about having way too much "stuff" had nothing to do with whether or not the stuff were truly "period" antiques. I am sure they all are! And it's done beautifully -- just not to my tastes. I LOVE old houses, stately victorians in particular, and I come from a town with many of them. But surely not all people who lived in these houses originally had that much stuff sitting around? Surely some people went for the most "minimalistic" feel, even though the furnishings they did have were beautiful. I have been through restored Victorians that have gorgeous, period furniture (like the person who posted the pic of the antique bedroom piece, which I LOVE and would give my eyeteeth for!). My point is, I've been through many beautiful Victorian houses that were filled with period antiques but were not filled with a lot of small items sitting everywhere and taking up every nook and cranny. I would give anything to be able to live in one of these houses. That is my goal someday. My comment about this particular house was just that however nicely and lovingly this was decorated, it just isn't my style because it's too "much stuff" for my tastes, and I just can't see myself being comfortable in it. Has nothing to do with not liking Victorians or with the decor being "period" or not.

Tricae - I don't think my opinion is in the minority. I hardly think I'm the only one on the face of the planet that dislikes this type of period decorating, especially when there's so much stuff.

For me, all the furnishings are over the top and reminds me of the other thread with the ornate decorating. There is also another thread where the house was gorgeous, but filled to the brim with antiques and antiquish photos. It was thread where people focussed on the wing chair in the upstairs great room/loft. In both of these threads, the majority of feedback was to declutter and remove some of the personal decorating because it was preventing both houses from being sold. How is this Victorian house any different?

I have to agree with akkw. The bones of the house are very nice, but it is very hard to see past the vast clutter in every nook and cranny. The decorating certainly could be minimized if they want to sell.

Actually, I really like your dresser and mirror chest. I'd be tempted to try to find the secret drawers in it if I were visiting your house! lol

As for retailers being successful at selling this stuff, personally, I think they have a limited market. Just like ornate, of course there's going to be someone who wants to buy this stuff, but that doesn't mean it appeals to the masses.

I'm of the thinking that less is more.

But, Sparksals, don't you think it is a matter of knowing your market? Can you see that possibly the people who would be seriously interested in buying this house would see the decorations as a positive feature, not a negative?

Why should they sterilize the house to help you - and me - like it better when neither of us would ever buy it? There are times when you should not try to appeal to the masses.

Oh graywings...thank you. One sentence & you said what I'd tried to do in an epistle.

Tricia

But, Sparksals, don't you think it is a matter of knowing your market? Can you see that possibly the people who would be seriously interested in buying this house would see the decorations as a positive feature, not a negative?

I think I stated earlier that there would be people who see this type of home as attractive and appealing, clutter and all.

However, I do think that there will be many people who would be dizzied by walking through it.

Why should they sterilize the house to help you - and me - like it better when neither of us would ever buy it? There are times when you should not try to appeal to the masses

Then what is the point of posting photos on an RE forum when everyone is in a different area and has different likes and dislikes? 99.9% of the people on this forum would never buy the home posted, but still offer advice/feedback.

Sure, people in that area may be drawn to the home given the history, but I still think that there will be many who are turned off.

Are Victorian homes in this area the exception to the convention that a seller make their home as appealing as possible to the largest number of potential buyers? Why was it suggested the ornate decorating in another thread be toned down to capture more buyers?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding or confused, but I'm seeing a double standard in this situation. Sure, some people like Victorian and will love the feel of the house. I see it as gimmicky, cutesy and cluttered. REgardless of the period of home, I would feel that way if any home was filled to the brim, be it a chateau Cabin with 25 mooseheads, bear rugs, deer antlers, etc. Most people would be hard pressed to recapture the look of the themed home with their own furnishings.

It's simply a personal preference. I just wouldn't even be able to consider buying that home because I cannot visualize myself in it with the vast era decorating and my personal belongings.

Are Victorian homes in this area the exception to the convention that a seller make their home as appealing as possible to the largest number of potential buyers? Why was it suggested the ornate decorating in another thread be toned down to capture more buyers?

I can't speak to all Victorian homes, but IMO, yes, this home is an exception to the rule. Neither you nor I would buy it after it has been toned down because we don't like that style of house. The person who is going to buy it will like it because of the style. And they are also going to love the current decorations.

I don't know about the other house you are referring to.

Oh, are you talking about the house with the huge breakfront in the living room and the gold-leaf furniture throughout that the husband didn't want to move? That furniture didn't fit the style of the house.

Sparksal, the ornately decorated home you are referring to was not decorated appropriately to the style of home. It was a vague reproduction of a colonial. Our Victorian home, however, is not only located in the historic district of town...it is decorated appropriate to its era. So, yes, they are two very different situations. Declutter & neutralize are not mantras. Real estate is not "one size fits all". And, not all people (or, even most) are unable to visualize.

Tricia

sparksals I understand exactly what you are saying. I live in an area where old housing is very common. My last house was built in the 1920s and not considered aged. :-)

Victorians are extremely common in this area. They are bought and sold all the time, and we viewed quite a number of them before purchasing our current home. This place reminds me of a museum, not a home. While some might be enthralled with the period and its "authenticity" the fact remains that when you are purchasing a home you want to see the rooms, see the space, see what you are getting for your money. There may indeed be someone right now falling in love with this home just as it is, and there may be many more walking through as lookie-loos.

I would not suggest decluttering to the point of barren, and goodness knows it is already "staged". I would certainly scale back if this house doesn't sell quickly. Even in a niche market there is such a thing as an extreme. This seems to be a prime example of one.

I can't speak to all Victorian homes, but IMO, yes, this home is an exception to the rule. Neither you nor I would buy it after it has been toned down because we don't like that style of house. The person who is going to buy it will like it because of the style. And they are also going to love the current decorations.

By George, I think I got it. But I still have to ask, wouldn't the buyer pool be severely limited? I could see in areas where this type of home is the norm that they may have more prospective buyers, but on average, I think they'd be limited.

Oh, are you talking about the house with the huge breakfront in the living room and the gold-leaf furniture throughout that the husband didn't want to move? That furniture didn't fit the style of the house.

Yes, that's the one I"m talking about. That makes sense and I didn't seem to be "getting" that the period home matched the decorations - even though they are far from my style.

Tricae:
So, yes, they are two very different situations. Declutter & neutralize are not mantras. Real estate is not "one size fits all". And, not all people (or, even most) are unable to visualize.

Ok, I see what you're getting at and I do realize that neutralize and declutter are not set in stone.

I remember a thread awhile back that discussed the visualization topic. I was suprised at how many were like me who can't visualize or get past certain character flaws of a home.

It's amazing how everyone's deal breaker is different, eh?

xamsx:

This place reminds me of a museum, not a home. While some might be enthralled with the period and its "authenticity" the fact remains that when you are purchasing a home you want to see the rooms, see the space, see what you are getting for your money. There may indeed be someone right now falling in love with this home just as it is, and there may be many more walking through as lookie-loos.

THAT is exactly my impression too. It just doesn't look like a home, but more a reproduction you would see at a theme park. It just didn't look like a home to me.


I would not suggest decluttering to the point of barren, and goodness knows it is already "staged". I would certainly scale back if this house doesn't sell quickly. Even in a niche market there is such a thing as an extreme. This seems to be a prime example of one.

My feelings too. I think that everything in that house is extreme. I'm sure there are people who would be wowed. I'd probably be if I saw it in a Victorian era theme park, not in a home I was considering buying.

Sparksal,

When I was a lender in Colorado, I had to sell a humongous mountain home in Evergreen that was decorated much like you wrote about...including the mooseheads (which are disgusting, to me, BTW). The bedding all looked like it was from LLBean, & I remember the dishes as having various animals (bear, deer, fish, etc.) all over them. The home was used as a furnished rental (common to the area...resort). So along with the house, I was stuck with the furnishings.

That home also was not going to appeal to the masses. You would have hated it. But, the home sat in a Colorado mountain resort town so one could say it was "appropriate" to its surroundings.

I didn't even TRY to market it to the masses. It was what it was. I didn't even advertise it in the Denver area...why bother? Instead, I advertised in NRA publications, Ducks Unlimited, the 'Dallas Morning News', and the 'Houston Chronicle'. The home sold in less than 3-months in the depressed 1987 market to a loud, boisterous, Dallas businessman. I not only didn't like the property...I didn't like him! But boy did he like that house. He intended to use it as a hunting retreat for him & his business associates (no families allowed type of place). Oh well...my job was to sell the property (not like it) & those mooseheads looming overhead is what sold that darn place. That guy thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. I only needed ONE buyer.

So, the point is to know your market & then appeal strongly to that market. You are correct that the market for out of the ordinary properties is limited. But, I've found that the answer to selling these places is not to neutralize on them...rather capitalize on them & advertise appropriately.

Tricia

I live in a relatively old (1905) house where we embrace and enjoy what's left of the period architectural features -- but purists would certainly sniff at our more streamlined decor choices.

Two quick thoughts:

1) As the number of older homes is finite, they often get to break the "rules" of selling. Obviously ye olde "location, location, location" still applies.

2) If someone is open to buying an old home but lacks the imagination to "see" it empty, then maybe that person shouldn't buy an old home -- because often, the gift of imagining "what might be" will be what gets an old-home owner through the days and nights when things go terribly wrong (as they can do in even the most wonderfully-maintained property...)!

...:::::::applause:::::::... to triciae's last post.

As an old house owner myself, who would never buy new construction, I'm glad that a lot of you don't like the OP's house.
I'd hate to see what you'd do to it if you were to ever buy it.
It'd be a desecrated beige boring no character nightmare.
You new construction folks just stick to the new houses and leave the old quality construction to those that appreciate it.

You wouldn't believe how many folks I've talked to that have bought an old house and have to spend $1000's to un-do the "remuddling" that the PO's have done. Vinyl siding and windows. Open floor plans. Removal of every original door and light fixture. BLECH!!!!

I'll bet I wasn't the only one who thought the *house* was probably lovely, if you could see it, but the decor was what made it horrific.

deeje - that's what it is for me. I can appreciate period architecture, but the decor is just way over the top.

"As an old house owner myself, who would never buy new construction, I'm glad that a lot of you don't like the OP's house.
I'd hate to see what you'd do to it if you were to ever buy it.
It'd be a desecrated beige boring no character nightmare.
You new construction folks just stick to the new houses and leave the old quality construction to those that appreciate it.

You wouldn't believe how many folks I've talked to that have bought an old house and have to spend $1000's to un-do the "remuddling" that the PO's have done. Vinyl siding and windows. Open floor plans. Removal of every original door and light fixture. BLECH!!!!"

BUT....
since this property was originally a log cabin that was added on to...

All the Victorian fluff would then need to be removed "to un-do the "remuddling" that the PO's have done."

The owners are guilty of what you wrote, right?

Oh shutup.
Smart A** comments like that are exactly why I never liked this site.

western pa...

Depends entirely on when the Victorian influence was added. We've no reason to believe it was done at any time other than the late-Victorian era. So, you are incorrect in asserting that it would need to be removed.

Most ALL historic homes have had some modification over the generations. This example actually is very interesting from a historic sense since it was a small log cabin originally. Now, had the home been remodeled with 1950's kitchen & baths...that would need to be removed & an attempt made to reestablish an earlier period.

However, even that is not necessarily always true. For example, in Strawberry Banke, New Hampshire the museum has several homes that represent construction/decor/life styles from the time of original construction (18th century) through the 1950-1960's. The homes have "evolved" & are very fascinating to tour.

There really is no definitive answer to the historic restoration process. Each property is unique.

Tricia

That's what I was wondering (and I did not mean my comment as a smart a$$ comment! Sorry you saw it that way, happycthulhu ...).

As what point do you consider any add-ons to be non-authentic?

You mentioned that the 50s kitchen and baths would need to be removed... but why stop there? Does that make any 1940s renovations okay? or the 30s?

I know each property is unique... but I was curious as to where you should stop in trying to preserve the original building.

It's a good question & not easily answered.

I believe most people interested in purchasing this Victorian would want to stay pretty close to the era...not much past 1910 which would be a decade after the Victorian remodel. The reason I say that is because this particular home is located in a historic district &, almost undoubtedly, the town has a lot to say about what can & what cannot be done in any remodeling. Knowing my village, I believe it very unlikely this town would approve putting in a 21st century kitchen. Whatever was existing at the time the home was accepted onto the historic registry would be allowed to remain.

These town boards can, and usually are, very arbitrary. You'll not find two that think alike. What I couldn't do here in Mystic, I might be able to do one village over in Groton.

Tricia

Actually there isn't a board in the country that can tell you what you do with the inside of your house. Although it has been successfully argued on the supreme court level that the outside of the house exists in the public realm and therefore local governments can make rules about what you do to it, I highly doubt it will ever be considered constitutional to legislate interiors. The landmarking of interiors even in public buildings is very very rare and fairly difficult to do.

As far as whether boards are arbitrary or not, one thing they are not allowed to be (if they expect their decisions to stand up to lawsuit) is arbitrary. The architectural review standards of any community need to be spelled out, even if the guidelines are vague and provide wide latitude to the board members. This is far from arbitrary even though they may differ from one community to the next. Yes, I sit on such a board and yes, we have rules and standards and yes, I am currently involved in writing new ones (and I have worked with/observed boards from many other communities, both large and small).

As far as what is considered "remuddling" and what is not, that is, of course, subjective. In true preservation, you must first define the "era of significance" of the house. This is generally when the house was first built, but if a significant event took place there or a significant person lived there, it can be a later date. Generally the only time you actually take a house in full back to a previous era is if the home is/will become museums. I can't think of anyone I know, even in the preservation community, who would not want the modern conveniences of things like indoor plumbing and electricity in their house and a kitchen with modern, functioning appliances even if these things predate their homes. I have friends who have a really neat kitchen, with an old monitor top refridgerator and an old chambers stove (before they were made popular by rachel ray) but their house was built in 1840 so these "modern conveniences" still differ from when their house was built by 80 years.

A good rule of thumb is to identify the "character defining features" of any old house... ie what makes this house special. Those are the things one should work to preserve. Original windows (that often come in configurations, have thin muntins and wavy glass), original doors, original trimwork, porches, etc are the sorts of things that make old houses different from new ones. Remuddling, for most rational people, involves stripping the essential character from the house. It could be argued that a kitchen should be in keeping with the age of the house but personally I'd be much less concerned about a ca1960 kitchen being torn out and replaced with a ca2007 kitchen, even if it's styled in a modern way than say taking down the original victorian bullseye mouldings and replacing it with craftsman style mouldings because that's what you prefer. In the kitchen example you're not destroying anything worth saving, in the trimwork example you should just buy a craftsman house if that's the look you desire.

Of course remuddling is also a word used by those who feel they "know better" to beat people over the head for not doing things their way. I'm a firm believer, even though I have a background in historic preservation, that the best way to preserve a house is for someone to love it and use it and the best way for that to happen is to allow them to put their own mark on it. If people haven't been doing that throughout the ages then there would be significantly fewer interesting things about old houses IMO. Poorly done changes to homes are detrimental to the home regardless of the age.

All that said, I do believe "new house" people and "old house" people are just two different breeds and disasterous things can happen when they mix. I lived in a new house and HATED it, couldn't wait to get out of there. Of course some people build new, beautiful homes that successfully copy historic styles... but if you want to turn an old house into a new one, look for one that has already been stripped of its character defining features so you can imprint your own character on it.

Yes, by having an old house BE an old house you are limiting your potential buyers but at the same time realize that there is also a limited number of old houses in great condition too whereas newer houses with less character are FAR more common. I do think that the supply and demand are in relative balance for that segment of the market.

My understanding is that the federal government, through the Interior Department, can control interior rehabbing when the structure has been declared an historic property. They give tax credits for approved rehabbing, and it would see logical that once such funds were accepted, you would then lose your freedom to rehab the interior as you please.

I believe there is a provision in the federal statute to enable state and local jurisdictions to designate an area as an historic district, which might then cause an individual building to be designated as historic even if the individual owner has not sought such designation. Then the state and local jurisdictions have to ensure that federal rehab guidelines are followed.

Caveat: I am not an expert on this subject - just listened to friends who looked into going this route with an old house.

There are no federal tax credits for buildings to be used as a residence, only for commercial structures. Some states may have tax credits available for residences and I can't say that I'm familiar with all 50 states but I know my current state does not have one and I think it's not all that common. The goal of tax credits is more to preserve and revitalize the economies of the historic core of towns and cities rather than to subsidize the renovations of individual homeowners, which is why tax credits for strictly residential projects are few and far between.

Regardless, the point is that any local preservation/planning/architectural review board/committee can't tell you what to do with your interior. You want to put a modern kitchen in, go for it. I haven't done a federal tax credit building or looked at the regulations in several years but it would seem to make sense that if you are taking money to preserve a building, you'd follow the rules that go along with that money. To use the example of the kitchen, no one is saying you cannot put a modern kitchen in an old building, only that you can't if you want the government to pay for it out of the preservation budget.

Yes, buildings can be listed without the owner's approval and yes, that often subjects them to architectural review rules in regard to how the exterior is treated (for example, my local architectural review guidelines only apply in the historic district and to buildings adjacent to the historic district). Being designated is fairly meaningless in and of itself though, and worrying about it occurring without the approval of the property owner is a bit of a red herring... most historic preservation legislation applies not only to buildings actually on the historic register but also to buildings that are ELIGIBLE to be on the historic register as well.

What either being on the register or being eligible for the register means on the state and local level varies based upon whatever legislation has been passed by the state/locality... but you still can't legislate what private homeowners do style-wise on their interiors (of course health and safety issues are addressed by building codes). What it means at the federal level is if you get federal money to do your project (say to make it low income housing) or you require a federal license/permit, it's subject to review and comment by the federal Advisory Council on Historic Preservation. If that sounds vague, it is. There are actually very very few federal restrictions about what can be done with historic properties... most of that is left to states and localities.

Hasn't the White House been added to over the years? Even Buckingham Palace isn't at all what it originally was with all the additions tacked on beside it, alongside it, behind it etc. It used to be just a mansion (log cabin) to what it is now.