If you're concerned about the butt to butt issue between the sink and range (buttleneck??? sorry... it's the end of the school year and I"m easily amused) can you flip the sink and DW. I know that puts the DW door and range door at odds; but very rarely are you at the stove and loading the DW. More typically you'd be at the sink prepping and at the stove.

Remodelfla, good point. It's a cooktop though, the ovens are at the end of the sink wall and my concern is the oven/laundry bottleneck.

The sink can and will be moved.

Hows this

I also may have the option of moving the fridge into the door on the right wall which is currently a deep pantry that runs the length of the wall all the way behind and up to the back wall of the kitchen. Right now there is also a water heater in there but they may go tankless. One unmovable obstruction, which means the fridge would be right up against the top corner, is a breaker box that is 42" from the top wall.

I like your second option better... in the first I personally don't care for the big fridge right next to the seating area. This feels more open and airy.

Are you going to put a cupboard over the fridge? What are the doors in the corner?

Is the wall by the laundry movable? I'm wondering if you would consider a front loading washer and dryer so that you can stack them, thus buying yourself 27 - 30" of extra wall space.

Could you remove the pantry, shift the washer and dryer (maybe stacked) to the end of the kitchen and free up that entire wall opposite the fridge?

I agree that the second plan feels more comfortable in itself, but didn't you want landing space right by the dining room door? I think making that tight corner around the fridge might be tedious.

Re the laundry, I also vote for a different solution than the wall or whatever that is. If they're having front loaders (in Appliances they say that the current regulations have made top load washers not good anymore), you could have a counter over them, with storage above, and maybe a nice sorter for hiding the dirty clothes in.

Otherwise, your second plan here is the best I've seen.

The second one is better, but the fridge location is a six of one, half a dozen of the other thing. I've had the sink/cooktop conflict in the last two kitchens and avoiding it is a good thing. :-)

I looked at the LO this morning and the laundry bothered me too. I was wondering about stacking the W&D, moving them to the pantry area where you talked about recessing the fridge -- or the counter on top comment reminded me of some I have seen with panels (Asko) or hidden enclosed in lower cabinets (one in a dining room that looked like a server!).

I need to look at it more...but one thing about putting the DW opposite the range...it's not the DW & oven door-conflict that's an issue, it's the fact that if the DW is open and someone is at the range cooking and they back into the open DW door, it could not only be painful, but it could also be dangerous if they're holding a hot pot/pan.

I don't discount Buehl's opinion at all, but I know she's said has her DW open a lot during cooking. My folks have had the DW right across from the stove since I was 5. The DW stays closed, both because my mother doesn't abide things left open, and also because it's too small a kitchen to leave it open that way. Even so, there must have been some times when someone was standing at the stove and the DW door was open, there might have been a bump or trip, but never any big problem. So perhaps this part of the design is something better to ask the ladies about.

This kitchen is such a tube. Each time I just glimpse the plan, I try to move the walkpath to one of the two sides and eliminate one wall of cupboards, thereby putting the action into a staple-shaped U on the other side, allowing the cook's area to be dead-ended.

I'm the one who lived 30 years with the stove and dishwasher facing each other in the old 8-foot wide corridor kitchen. Yes, you have to have rules. Your walk-through destination beyond the kitchen will guarantee there's always interrupting traffic. In this case, I would have the rule, "Everybody has to fill your arms with dishes and bring them to the dishwasher area after dinner before you can leave this room." They haul the stuff, plunk it, people leave, THEN someone opens the dishwasher door. During big events, you need the "nobody uses the laundry" rule. I used to require all party guests to stand "there or there" outside the work triangle on penalty of being banned.

The more I look at the above plan, the more it looks like the kitchen I've torn out. If you must live with this configuration along a corridor, it's better to put the sink and the refrig on same wall and the stove on the other. OR just make a one-wall kitchen without the staple shape--stove, then sink, then refrig all one one side without a triangle. That way, no one traps anyone in place. And put the refrig close to the table and/or the entrance site for grocery bags.

Could you use a smaller refrigerator? A narrower one?

Thanks as always.

Changes to the laundry are just not an option. There is simply no money to replace appliances, which BTW are new and the only appliances to survive the flood, and moving/removing the walls is too costly. There are shelves and storage in there and rather than putting in a counter, Mom and sis just use the top of the machines. The machines are bigger than the appliances I placed on the floor plan and really take up most of that space. Another limitation of the software I used is that I couldn't place a door on the wall in front of the washer and dryer but there are 2 bi-fold doors. I think you can see it in the pictures above.

pllog, we did want landing space coming in from the dining room however on further reflection they decided that as most of their entertaining is done outside (access through the den) so this wasn't a priority anymore.

Buehl good thought. The DW stays closed most of the time.

Here's another idea...

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

I think I remember the ref being in that position in an earlier plan, and concerns about opening the door all the way (to get drawers out for cleaning.) I see you have some filler between the ref and the wall, so would just say to look at the ref in person and determine exactly how much space is needed to open the door wide enough. (It would stink to go through all your work and be an inch off!) You could make that filler useful by turning it into pull-out broom storage, which would be so handy in a kitchen of any size and especially a small one. I've seen threads with pull-outs as narrow as 4" -- a great use of space.

Where is your trash? Do you have room for a small trash pull out under the sink? That might be something to discuss with the plumber to make sure you have some room under there.

Other than the fridge concerns, I like this one.

Would they consider not having wall ovens? I know I wanted them, (well, one) but gave it up for counter space. I think that cabinet would look better if it were a normal 12" upper with the counter extended - it's such a "thing" to walk around when entering the room.

Oh! Somehow I thought the laundry room doors were new! Never mind. :-)

This latest looks like a comfy compact work triangle, but is it too compact for a couple of important ladies? I think the fridge location might lead to a lot of tush bumping. I like your last, at 12:08, best, even though it makes the fridge a bit inconvenient to their way of life. Having the fridge by the dining room is a convenience, but if all the bits are going to the window table or thorough the door on that side to the outside, that's a lot of trips right through the work zone. Unless the outside is easily gotten to through the dining room?

All of which puts us back to the plan you first posted in this thread. Which may be the best that can be managed. Maybe swapping the sink and DW.

I'm confused. The flood photo shows a range, not a cooktop and wall ovens. Yet you say they can't afford to replace appliances? If they have a range, then the layout is so much more efficient by eliminating the problematic wall ovens.

Also, the most efficient flow in the kitchen is fridge>>>sink>>>>range, and moving the sink down slightly towards where the wall ovens are shown and putting the fridge on the sink wall accomplishes that. Or, the existing layout with the range and the sink on the back wall and the fridge on the laundry wall also is fairly efficient.

Sometimes changing things brings us full circle to where we started and we find out that the original isn't as bad as we thought. Every kitchen has it's drawbacks, and in a budget redo, changing the locations of the major players should be avoided at all costs.

How about using refrigerator drawers?

BTW, going tankless will be a 3-5K expense to retrofit. It will require exterior venting for the gas option, and completely upgrading the electrical service to the condo for electric.

chicagoans - great idea. However with the Utility closet right there and the pantry also easily accessible, I think we'll save the money a broom closet would cost.

Live-wire... The range is trashed. The fridge fell over during the flood and knocked into the range. The gas oven was on even though none of the knobs were turned. It took us three days to get the gas to the oven switched off because that's how long it took to get hte fridge out of the way. The appliances were a generous donation from a local appliance store as well dents and scratch from a memorial day sale and have already been delivered. There's a GE wall oven 27", advantium 27" (hence the wall oven stack) a GE DW and they also bought an induction cooktop by GE. I am going to check whether the wall oven can be installed under the cooktop and if the advantium can go under the counter as well.

As to the water heater, they got a quote of 4k. That is totally out of the budget considering a tank system is $840 so that is the route they will be taking.

Trash is right outside the den in an alcove next to the porch - two huge garbage bins. For immediate use in the kitchen, we plan on under sink trash to be emptied daily which is what they were doing before the flood and it worked well for them.

I will be flying down for the day on Monday to meet with the cabinet guy and look at the space again.

Still working on the perfect plan given the limitations.

I also think that these plans may make for much congestion with either fridge or the wall ovens ending up what you walk into when you enter the kitchen.
Now, truthfully, I very much like galley kitchens and I think this can be made very efficient. The problem here comes from the congestion introduced by the laundry closet.

Someone above made a very astute point about wanting to shove the kitchen aisle to one side or the other. It put me to mind that what you may want to do - and what I'd do here - is to put all the tall storage on the laundry room side and the operating bits on the opposite side. So, at hte bottom, next to the laundry room, put in 'fridge, pantry (if using), wall ovens and then the long run of counter. This could also serve as your baking counter. Continue down with the shallow storage behind the seating area as you are currently doing.

On the opposite wall, go with storage, stove (or sink, don't care), 30" storage/counter, sink(/stove), storage. Fit DW as appropriate somewhere in this run depending on where you place the sink.

This keeps the tall units all on one side and the open counter on the other. Personally, I'd not want to see the fridge OR the wall ovens blocking the sight-lines/operating lines from one end of the kitchen to the other. It also keeps your oven access protected. Landing for the fridge would be right across the aisle - the best solution for a french-door anyhow.

My $0.03 (with tax).