Wow, really? Nobody has LED lighting? ...

I have been looking at a lot of lighting, led, xenon, etc. The led stuff is still way expensive, around $100/ft for the under cabinet strip lighting from Albeo, way less for this: http://ledneonlight.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15

In the end, I think I'll stick with xenon undercabinet, but I would be curious about the ecove lighting.

I know a couple of people here have used LED undercabinet lights. OrganicDonna (sp?) is one I believe. I looked into it but concluded it wasn't ready for prime time - mostly not bright enough and no dimming for what I found.

I think I also noticed mention of LED pendent lights here and there.

IMO this technology is coming, but at the moment it only fits in certain limited circumstances.

If you can, wait until this fall. The federal gov't will be issuing Energy Star standards for LED lights (at least, and possibly for all lightbulbs). I also hang out on an enviro website (www.grist.org) where they are always looking for the next new thing, and the consensus there seems to be to wait a little bit. Also look at the various links following the "I hate Title 24" thread from a few days ago -- I posted a website that sells nothing but lightbulbs and others had some helpful comments. HTH.

I saw LED recessed lighting in a yacht galley (at a boat show) recently and it looked like the flying saucer from CE3K was trying to land LOL! The recessed lights were about 1' apart over the entire (low) ceiling AND the galley was still pretty dark, IMO.

I agree with other posters that this technology is not practical yet, but may be soon. I was told by a manufacturer's rep at the same boat show that as they increase the light output, the fixtures get way too hot. Needs some more research, it seems.

Around January, 2007, Ramses_2, OrganicDonna and I believe JGardner (I might have that wrong) all installed LED undercounter lights. OrganicDonna's were custom made, but Ramses (and possibly JGardner) used warm white 85 degree series STP3XXC from LEDtronic.com (I know this because I was so impressed I wrote it down). Ramses_2 posted extensive pics and how-to info, which I saved in my clippings (but I don't know how to introduce clippings into a post). OrganicDonna and JGardner both are in the Finished Kitchen Blog, tho I couldn't find Ramses_2. If you know how to link a clipped post into a new thread, I would be willing to give it a try. Someday I hope to have LED undercabinet lighting of my own to share, but that's still a ways away.

bump

Aussies, I lurked this forum for a LONG time before & during my just completed total remodel..mostly DIY except for floor & cabinet install. I never felt like I had anything to offer, so I just joined to share some info on LED lighting with you.

A company called CREE makes a 6" LED recessed light (called the LLF LR6) that fits most 6" cans (you screw it into the standard socket already in the can). It has an integrated trim ring on it, so once you screw it in, you just push it up in the can and you have a beautiful recessed LED light. I have an insulated living area above my kitchen and did not want the heat of halogens and I wanted to be able to dim my lights, so CFL's were out (I know, they came out with some dimmable CFL's, but had pulled them off the market because of failure problems about the time I was needing mine).

These lights use 12 watts each and put out TONS of light. Sorry, but I don't know the lumens off the top of my head.
They are dimmable..only gotcha is they will not dim all the way down, but no heat and low power consumption was what I was after. The light is very nice..rated 92 CRI I think and they do not look anything like LED's. The cover is opaque and you just see a nice even light emanating from the fixture. I think they just came out with a 4" recessed..no experience with that.

I used xenon under counter because I couldn't find a suitable LED and I wanted to dim those as well. It kills me though..my 7 LED's burn 84 watts at full power (which we rarely use) and my 16 10W xenon under counter lights use 160 watts and boy are they hot. Fortunately, DW just likes them on low so it's not a huge problem.

If you like the LLF LR6, be sure and check dimmer compatibility. I think they work with most, but not all dimmers. I used Lutron Faedra dimmers and they are fantastic. Also, you need a minimum of 40 watts to drive the Faedra dimmer, so I can't dim the 2 LR6's in my laundry room as they only draw 24 watts. Not really a problem, but boy is my laundry room bright!

Sorry this is so long-hope it helps you guys.

Here is a link that might be useful: CREE Lighting

Well, I posted a follow-up with the price, but don't see it here. The LR6 cost around $95-100+, but IMHO, are worth every penny. We LOVE them. They are supposed to last 150,000 hours which is about 20 years of average use. To be honest, I would replace them even if they don't last that long. I assume they'll have new and better technology before replacing them is a problem, anyway.

We have xenon under cabinet lighting but needed a light that generated less heat for a niche we have behind our cooktop. We have warm rich lighting throughout the kitchen but when the LED lighting was on, it made the niche look like a fish aquarium because the light had a bluish hue. I hated it and had it replaced with a xenon puck light. Much, much better.

Jodi-

The info on the Cree downlights was super helpful, thanks. Their website states that the output is 650 lumens and the CRI is 92. Beenthere 2008, how do you feel about the light quality as compared to other household lighting? did you choose warm or cool bulbs? How does the integrated trim look? Have any PICS you'd like to share, please??

Melmazz, the light produced by the LR6 looks JUST like regular incadescent lighting to us. We have the 2700k version which is considered warm...similar to standard bulbs. It is NOT blue or anything remotely similar to the light output most people associate with LED's. I assume the 3500k is much whiter and probably more appropriate in an office or commercial setting.

One observation worth noting is that as they are dimmed, they do not turn yellow like my xenon under cabinet lights. They seem to maintain the same color output as they are dimmed, which is great.

The trim looks very nice...it is a molded integrated trim, so there is no visible trim ring or space above the light. I don't have any pics..the CREE website pics give a pretty accurate rendition of what they look like. I would check with a high end lighting store to get an upclose & personal look. You won't find these at Lowes or HD!

My bad! Correction...the LR6 claims a life of 50,000 hours, NOT 150,000 as I mentioned in a previous post. Hey, it was late!

Thanks for all that info beenthere_2008! Actually since my original post, I have seen one of those LR6 lights in a lighting store in my area. It looked good to us - it really did look like an incandescent light. I also like the fact that they can be dimmed, although we didn't get to see that feature. We are definitely considering them. My only real concern is that they don't put out as much light as fluorescents, so we would need more of them (and so they will cost more). I'm in CA so I have to have either fluorescent or LED lighting to pass code. The lady in the store said they are currently taking orders for 4'' ones too, but they don't have an example of one yet.

I'm still hoping to see pictures of them installed in someone's kitchen ... especially at night ...

Doing the happy dance here! I have been looking at the CREE LR6 and am delighted to have some first hand testimonial. Thanks beenthere!

And Ausies, thank for the heads up on the 4"! That's the best news I've had all week. Any idea when they start to ship? My electrical will probably happen in Sept.

I clipped a posting a long time ago from Labradoodlelady that has a picture of her recessed LED lights from CREE. She has 10' white ceilings and white cabinets.

I clicked on "email" and then copied that URL to link below, hope it works. If not, just go to my clippings.

Here is a link that might be useful: Labradoodlelady's recessed LED kitchen lights

I also have the CREE LR6 and love them. I went from very antiquated lighting (all on pull cords!) to recessed and was sick and tired of climbing up on chairs to replace light bulbs, so the very long life was appealing to me, as was the fact that they throw off very little heat (no a/c in summer). The lighting store had a side by side with the LR6 and (I think) an incandescent light, and the light of the LR6 seemed cleaner and brighter. To my eye, the light is a very pure white, and I'm very happy with it.

Also, you may want to consider how many recessed lights you really need. According to my KD, the size of my kitchen (a bit over 14x14) called for 8 "cans," which seemed excessive, so I cut it to 6, then decided even that was too many. I have 4, and find that provides ample lighting all by itself, even at night (any other available lighting, such as pendants, OTR, undercabinet will also factor in, of course). I have a narrow-ish butler's pantry that has 2 of the LR6's and honestly, it's almost too bright in there!

no_clever_name,
Can you tell us the color of your cabinets, walls and ceiling? Better yet, can you post a pic of your kitchen taken at night with the lights on?

The kitchen pic I linked to above was mostly white, which reflects light.

With only 4 recessed cans for a 14'x14' kitchen, I'm guessing the CREE LR6 lights must have a very wide beam spread.

aussies,
Can you tell me the name and location of the store where you saw the CREE LR6 lighting display? (I believe we are both in the S.F. North Bay.) Did you get a price on the LR6 "light bulb"? I just got a price from one of Lamps Plus stores of $130 + tax, and was surprised bec I thought they were closer to $100.

no_clever_name and beenthere,
Can you tell me where you purchased your CREE LR6 lights, how long ago, and the price you paid?

I talked with Cree Lighting's customer service dept today and found a little more info on their LED lights.

LR4 - 4" recessed architectural downlight:
Its available for sale now in a 15 degree beam spread, 540 delivered lumens, 10.5 watts, and CRI 94, and also a 30 degree beam spread, 515 delivered lumens, 11.1 watts, and same CRI of 94 (the sun is considered 100 CRI). The LR4 is available with or without the housing, and in 6 trim colors.

LR6 - 6" recessed architectural downlight:
Only available as a lamp w/attached trim (fits in most 6" housings). Did not give me a beam spread but said it was for "general illumination", delivered 650 lumens, 12 watts, and CRI 92. They recommend 6ft apart with 9ft ceilings. They will be coming out with an adjustable LR6, similar to a gimbal bulb (hangs down from the ceiling), but did not say when that would be. This bulb is also available for the dedicated fluorescent fixtures.

Both the LR4 and LR6 are available in 2700 K (similar to incandescent light and better for residential), and 3500 K, used more for offices. Both can be dimmed to 20% with regular dimmer switches.

She stressed their lumen rating was the amount of delivered lumens, suggesting that other incandescent bulbs may or may not deliver the lumens stated. This may account for why no_clever_name's KD said she needed 8 LR6 lights, but she was happy with only 4.

I think this may be a solution for my kitchen lighting, even tho the bulbs are v.very expensive. I also like that they're rated for 50,000 hours, so doubt I will be replacing them in my lifetime!

Here is a link that might be useful: CREE Lighting Co.

It is worth keeping in mind that the amount of task lighting required (lumens per square foot) depends on both the level of detail in the task and the age of the taskee. So one person's "more than enough light" may be another's "not enough."

One could buy one or two or more 75WPAR30 interior flood lights and some sockets and temporarily hang them from the ceiling. This would not require much investment. (Use regular tungsten if you plan on going warm, or the Halogen 1020-lm versions if you want cooler light.) Determine the spacing that seems appropriate for your needs.

Compare the tungsten lamps' specified lumen output and apparent lighting effect as a function of the distance between lamps to the LR6 specified output to determine whether more cans are needed with the LR6.

For example, six Halogen 75Par30s providing around 6000 lm in a room might require nine LR6 for the same effect. Or six may be too many, and a lesser number of each would seem suitable. YMMV

kas

napagirl, thanks for that information! Sounds like we probably went to the same Lamps Plus store in S Raf. They're the only store we've seen around here (so far) that has recessed LED lights. They only had one on display. I don't think even all the sales people in that store are aware of it though, because when my DH called them, they said they didn't have any. I spoke to a lady there called Inga and she seemed very knowledgeable. We were quoted that same price ($129) for the 6'' + extra for the housing.

Our kitchen is approx 11' x 9' (minus a few square feet in one corner, due to an adjacent closet) with 8ft ceilings. She said we would need 8 LED lights. (This is in addition to our fluorescent undercab lights and 2 halogen pendants). In retrospect I'm not sure though whether the 8 is to ensure sufficient light or if it's to ensure CA Title 24 compliance (ie to make up for our halogen pendants). We didn't stay too long in the store because there was a line of other customers waiting, but we plan to go back for more information.

kaseki, Thanks for the suggestion about doing a "mock up" to compare lumens.
I have a 6" can with a 75 Watt GE Halogen FL 25 degree beam bulb in my 8' ceiling now and I would not want anything less. The bulb didn't say what the lumens were and the packaging is gone. Guess I should buy one (or 2) LR6 LED bulb and try it before I commit to a whole room full.

aussies, I haven't seen one yet (I called their Pleasant Hill store). I think the only way I will really know is to buy one and try it. I can always use it somewhere.

Fortunately, I don't have to comply with the new 2005 Title 24 regs bec we got our permit in 2004. (Yes, its been going on that long!)

I found a Kitchen Exchange blog on CREE LR6 bulbs. If you scroll down to the bottom, "anonymous" said he was able to buy 25 bulbs for $90 each. He also made the point you don't have to spend the extra $15+ for the trim, which is something I failed to consider in the overall price. Heck, I can re-use the four 6" cans that I already have!

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Exchange Blog on CREE LR6 bulbs

More use of traditional fish lamp or tungsten halogen bulbs, but most of the low penetration of wavelengths, so need to provide high power, when the wattage is too strong, will result in skin lesions of fishermen, consumption of electricity. In order to provide a large electric power, fishing boats need to set more than a generator or battery, to enable vessels to load and depletion of oil increased in 2006, crude oil broke $ 70 a barrel, while the fishing costs of heavy oil is the largest part of the fishermen.

Here is a link that might be useful: 90W led grow lights