Contractor wants framed cabinets/contractor discounts in NY

12 years ago

My contractor asked me about cabinets and I mentioned I would like frameless ones and he said they are not as strong as framed. I don't know if he said this because they would not be plywood or they are out of my budget (he did not want me to feel bad).

Also, my contractor mentioned for me to use C---for cabinets and C---for tiles because he gets a good discount (you will know these stores if you are on Long Island). He said to go there meet with the manager, pick out cabinets and he will buy them. He than should be receipts from other clients using these stores with his discounts. Do you think he really is getting discounts or just kickbacks?

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Comments (7)

weissman
12 years ago
Probably kickbacks. If you want frameless cabinets get what you want - it's your kitchen. If need be get a different contractor.
kitellie49
12 years ago
I would make sure I get pricing directly from the retailer.

As a retailer myself, I was involved in a situation recently where the contractor was purchasing the cabinets but didn't want me discussing pricing with the customer as he wanted to add something to the kitchen for himself. It put me in the most awkward position because when the customer wanted pricing, I had to go through him. Finally, I told the contractor that I couldn't work that way. In this particular situation, although I reduced my profit by 25%, the amount he added to the kitchen was much more than I would have charged if the customer had come to me directly.

I have another contractor who constantly brings me business and expects nothing from me.

I would ask your contractor if he is passing those discounts directly on to you. The economic downturn has caused retailers to lower their prices. I'm earning about 1/3 less (profit) than a few years ago. That factor makes it unlikely that your contractor is getting discounts. If he is,- and I do charge certain contractors less - again, ask if he is passing that savings on to you. What you don't want is the contractor charging you more than you would have paid on your own!

Makes me crazy!
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xoxosmom, generally speaking, the end user of a product pays the sales tax. In this case, that would either be you or your builder, *one* of you would likely own sales tax, the whole thing. Your contractor is likely paying sales tax on all of the other materials, there's no reason why appliances would be different. As weissman says, though, the rules are different everywhere. Here in Washington (state), for example, for new home construction, sales tax is paid on the entire price of the house (!) - on materials, the contractor's mark-up, everything - so you should feel lucky if you only have to pay it on the appliances. As far as contractor's discounts go, in building our house, I found them to be largely fictional - like a phony department store "sale", prices are marked up so they can be marked back down again. In the case of appliances, discounts from MSRP were marginal - say, 5-10%. We found the best strategy to find prices and then ask the dealer favored by the contractor to match them. So if Sears has exactly what you want, get a quote. Ask the independent dealer to match it. If they don't, take your business to Sears if you want but you'll need to balance price against possibly better service from the independent dealer.
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Just some initial thoughts: Cabinets: you need to think about whether you want framed or frameless cabinets. I think the ones you've been looking at are all framed, but frameless might be a better choice in your small space. I linked one of the (many) threads on this below. Also, your hinge concern shouldn't be an issue on any cabinet you choose. Photos: if you are using photos from your computer, you can only show one per post by using the "Image file to upload" at the top of the message box. You can get around this by posting multiple posts, each with one photo each. Eventually you'll want to open a PhotoBucket account or another photo site account to store your (at least) kitchen related photos. When you do that, you can click on the "html code" provided by them which copies it so you can paste it into your message box. This way you can post multiple photos into the same message box. Timing: Do not rush this project! Every moment you spend in research and reflection will pay off in spades beginning on demo day. Your #1 item at this point is layout for function. I'm guessing you have a KD on the case, but post here anyway to get feedback. It's amazing what people here have to offer on how you can improve on what you have from big to small stuff. Have you thought about where you're going to keep your paper towels? Spices? Large pots? Bread? Have you considered a DW drawer vs a full size DW? Use of inside corners? Other options for flooring? I know there are other NYC apt. folks who may have very helpful suggestions for a kitchen specific to NYC issues. Hey! Congratulations. Here is a link that might be useful: Framed vs. Frameless
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Since you like the color that was ordered by mistake and, as you say, it is growing on you, then why not consider it a "fortunate accident" and go ahead and use the cabinets? Of course, if you don't like the color and have your heart set on what you oringinally ordered, then you should insist on getting what you wanted. Here's what concerns me ... if your contractor has to absorb the full cost of those wrongly ordered cabinets, even if it is HIS FAULT, you may end up suffering for it. He will be doing your job now with a huge cut in his profit, maybe even for NO profit. That is a very costly error on his part. Even if that has nothing to do with you, I'd be concerned that the quality of the rest of the job would suffer. Have you discussed NOT using the cabinets? What was his attitude? I would also want the entire order inspected before deciding ... is everything else satisfactory regarding the condition of the cabinets?
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Design generally doesn’t need a license. In many states though, the term is state regulated and requires registration and testing. Georgia is one of those states. To be a Registered Interior Designer, you must prove that you have the education, tested abilities, and you must register with the state. You can call yourself a Design Consultant, or Room Stager, or any number of things to get around that requirement. You would need his specific wording of him describing his job to pursue that. Georgia prohibits anyone from performing residential or general contracting over $2500 without a valid license. When licensing is required and an unlicensed contractor has agreed to provide work – the contract is “unenforceable in law or in equity.” Electrical and plumbing are required to be performed by separately licensed plumbers and electricians, NOT a residential basic contractor. Only a fully licensed General Contractor can perform some plumbing and electrical. Any good GC would just hire the subs beyond basic reconnects anyway. https://sos.ga.gov/PLB/acrobat/Forms/49%20Reference%20-%20Licensure%20Comparison%20Chart.pdf He is in violation of GA requirements. And you are legally not required to pay an individual who is contracting without a license. Contact your local attorney general to file a criminal complaint over fraudulent representation. That goes into the public record, which should also be a source to check when initially investigating. Also file a complaint with the contractor board, as he will not be able to get a license with that on his record. https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/licensing/submit_a_complaint
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remodelfla
12 years ago
frameless cabs are absolutely as strong as framed. It's all in the installation
domesticah
12 years ago
Hi we are in western Suffolk County so I think I know the store you are talking about and I believe that your contractor is telling the truth. Years ago my dear friends father was our contractor and he kindly passed all his discounts along to us. We purchased our tile and granite at C----s b/c we got 10% off. I paid the place directly, so I know he got the discount and passed it on. That said, didn't know they had an extensive line of cabs. Hope this is helpful.
Fori
12 years ago
He might have a kickback AND still be able to pass along a discount.

A lot of contractors really do believe frameless are weaker. I think it's inexperience. Although, if you throw a framed cabinet and a frameless one off a building, the framed one is likelier to be in better shape. But that doesn't matter--once installed, they're just as strong if installed properly.
User
12 years ago
"frameless cabs are absolutely as strong as framed. It's all in the installation"

Actually - "it's all in the construction/specifications"

If a cabinet is poorly constructed and or made from inferior materials- the best installer in the world is not going to make them stronger - it doesn't matter if they are framed or frameless.

Well made cabinets are well made, and will last . Doesn't matter what type.
hellonasty
12 years ago
Alls I know is... when anybody I'm trying to hire to work on my house tells me they don't want to do what I want to do, I don't hire them.

Contractor wants framed cabinets/contractor discounts in NY

Comments (7)

weissman

kitellie49

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