It's recommended you have 5 ft aisle for seating, which you don't have room for. I think you have too much island for the space.

The corner fridge would really take up a LOT of space.

Draw a circle to represent yourself standing at the sink, then draw some dotted lines to represent the open dishwasher door...I think they'll overlap, which means you'll be pretty hemmed in, if you fit. Is this the way you have it now?

The corner sink really makes things tough. If you're planning a prep sink, which I highly recommend for a big family with little helpers who will become bigger helpers, I'd like to get the clean up sink it's own area, and group the range, prep sink, and fridge together....Hopefully, also leaving the fridge on the edge of things so that it's easy to grab a drink or set the table without going through the work area. But that corner sink is right in the middle of things if you want the fridge to the left. If you could do with a 24-30" island, I might consider a cleanup area on the left and make the corner sink your prep sink... Otherwise, I much prefer Plan 1, and I'd have the prep sink on the island across from the range, but toward the patio end...Maybe even on the corner so it could be used from 2 directions, but mostly, so it leaves as much island workspace as free as possible.

Which rooms are in which directions?

Thanks. I know the corner sink really hurts the layout. I just can't see moving it with those big windows. I was also concerned about the space to load the dishwasher, so I thought the inset sink would help. Maybe I'll need a small cabinet in there, but I was trying to maximize storage, and I have seen kitchens set up like that. The doorway on the layout leads to the dining room and front door. The area in front of the patio doors is an eat-in kitchen with a table. Thanks again

I agree that the corner sink with dishwasher next to it will be awkward. How will you be able to stand at the sink while the dishwasher door is open? I have one suggestion to consider: my parents used to have a garbage can in the corner of the kitchen, right where you have your sink. It was accessed through a circular hole in the countertop with a pull-ring to lift it. It was emptied though a cupboard in the exterior of the house. If you did that, you could make use of the corner and still put the sink on top side with the dishwasher to your left, and you could prep on the right side, keeping the range where it is, or prep on the island. Or, you could put a second prep sink on the right side, keeping your island clear. Just a thought.

I'm not a "layout expert" but am going to jump in because your layout has a lot of similarities to my remodel which is just about to finish.

I like your pull-out trash placement. I definitely think it would help to fit in a prep sink with that many people in your household. I'd want to use the island for prep because of it's close proximity to everything, but it depends upon how much you bake. I'm attempting to propose an alternate layout which might leave enough counter space for a separate baking area.

I agree with rhome410 and astridh about corner sink and dishwasher placement. Would it help to move dishwasher 1 1/2'-2' to the left and put a set of drawers on either side of it? I notice you have 42" set aside for fridge - Is this a special counter depth fridge or will you be getting a regular 36" fridge which would mean a little extra space for drawers and dishwasher? I agree also w/rhome410 about reducing island size. It's going to be tough to fit comfortable seating in there which doesn't cause traffic bottlenecks (although we did it with less than the recommended 5' and will see as soon as we get our stools whether it worked or not). I notice that at your tightest point between your island and the small closet/pantry you only have about 30" in both drawings. That is very tight. We had a similar corner and obsessed and did a bunch of mock ups and walk-throughs, we decided the absolute minimum we could survive with was 33"-34" (36 would really be better). I'm a little concerned about how much upper cabinet space you have allocated. I love the shallow pantry in option 2 and think it would really help in this respect.

I created a possible sample layout for you similar to option 2 with a smaller island and the fridge relocated. It is more traditional and has less island space, but more counter and upper space. It's in photobucket so click with the magnifying glass to increase size. Hope you don't hate it and that it helps to keep discussion rolling. Best Wishes.

Here is a link that might be useful:

I remember you! I also remember that many of us suggested moving your sink and DW to the island. At the time you were trying to not have to move the plumbing. Now you are looking for a prep sink on the island, which involves plumbing. Why not just put the main sink and DW on the island and eliminate the problem in the corner? If you still want a prep sink, put it in the corner since it won't need a dishwasher.

I agree with others that your aisles are too narrow. They are 36" and 42" right now and with a large family cooking together you will need at least 48".

Didn't there used to be a wall along the bottom of your drawing?

Nicole

Another idea to play around with is placing the dw next to the prep sink. We did this and it works beautifully--the large sink is more useful as a 2nd clean up zone for washing large stock pots, cast iron fry pans, etc. while the prep sink is used for any scraping/rinsing needed while loading the dw. This allows 2 people (or 3 if another person is busy putting food away) to work efficiently during clean up. Putting the prep sink, dw, and trash into the island might make sense.

Also, if they fit in your budget, I would consider dw drawers. Our prep sink/dw set up is in a fairly tight main passageway through the kitchen and it's very easy to just bump in the dd (with a hip if hands are full) to get it out of the way. And with a large family, it would be convenient to fill up one drawer and set it to washing while leaving the 2nd available for loading.

I would move the prep sink to the opposite end of the island so that it is available for anybody who wants to grab a drink of water (from either the dining room or patio) or wash hands without getting into the heart of the cooking area. It would also leave you a nice landing area on the island for items from the fridge. I've never understood the advantage of having 2 sinks right across from each other--I tried to spread out the access to water.

I like chefkev's ideas. You could also play around with moving the range next to the supersusan (on the sink wall)--and a pots and pans drawer on the other side of the supersusan. This would leave the patio door wall available for a baking area.

Thanks for the comments so far. Let me answer a few questions and see if we can keep this going.

astridh- that is a neat garbage idea, but it won't work in my house. Our house is built on a slope, so the kitchen is up one level from the ground.

chefkev- thanks for the alternate layout! It is very similar to what we have now if you swapped the DW and range and added the island. I am concerned about having to walk around the island every time I need something from the fridge. Does anyone have a kitchen with the fridge and range on opposite sides of the island? Do you find it very inconvenient? Also, is it the general concensus that my kitchen is just too small to fit seating around the island? I thought it would be a nice addition and convenient with small kids, but it isn't a necessity. I'm planning on getting a standard 36" fridge, but my existing fridge cabinet now is 42" for a a 36" fridge. Is this not normal? How much space do I need to allocate for a 36" fridge?

Nicole- there was never a wall on the bottom. That space is open to an eat-it kitchen area. I gave up on trying to not move appliances. I decided to just figure out the best layout. I also thought it wasn't a good idea to put the cleanup area (with sink and DW) on the island b/c it would be visible from the front door. I kind of like the mess being tucked in the back corner of the kitchen. I also thought it would be too tight with the range and DW almost back to back.

zelmar- it's funny that you suggusted swapping the DW and range b/c then I am almost back to my existing layout! I never considered using the prep sink as a cleanup sink. See above for my concerns about the DW being on the island. Thanks.

Please keep the advice coming as I play around with this some more. Thanks.

I missed your previous thread and just did a search and can't find it. Do you have a drawing of what you have now? Do you dislike your current layout?

I didn't dislike it until I started reading here:) I had never really thought about efficiency and layout before and now as I read up on it, I realize how inefficient it really is, but maybe it is just the best I can have in this kitchen. When I posted it to get advice on the trash pull-out, I received many recommendations to take a look at the layout. Most (all) didn't like everything around the perimeter and recommended a second sink for a big family, especially since the main one is in the corner. Here is our kitchen layout that I originally posted. It is basically as it exists now, except the corner sink is at a 90 degree corner instead of the 45 degree drawn (the reason we wanted a new kitchen) and I have added some pullouts and drawers, but the major appliances are in the same location. You can see that there is a large open space in the middle, which makes it inefficient...but is there enough room for an island??

Existing Kitchen Layout:

Aisle width. I agree that yours are tight, especially because of certain corners and angles, and because of the seating. But we have a very large family and our side aisles are 48" and seem very roomy. Wider would be a waste of sq footage to me. We have only 36" between the island and rangetop, because I like to turn from the island with handfuls of prepped items, not turn and take steps, and I don't really want people going through that way. So, my point is, have wider aisles where you need them, but I think 36-42" ones will work...But only where you don't have seating. Seating changes things a lot.

Chef Kev's layout. Much better. I would shift the island 6" toward the range for the reasons I stated above, and to give the aisle in front of the fridge and that leads to the dishes and cleanup area optimal width, or widen the island 6" toward the stove if you're satisfied 42" on the fridge side is enough. I'm a bit worried about the need to go so far around the island to get to the fridge from the stove...It's pretty much the classic 'barrier island' that we all try to advise against. The prep sink helps, but not completely. In this space, though, it just may be a necessary compromise. I'd have to think long and hard about that one.

If you get a cabinet depth fridge you could squeeze in a 24" wide island. I don't think your "original" design is all that bad. Gets the stove furthest from traffic, fridge is convenient to DR, kitchen eating, and stove. The only thing is if you have a large family like you said there will probably be a line at the sink waiting to use it. And the prime prep space between the sink and stove are a bit cramped with that corner sink. I think the layout would work better with the main sink on the DW wall rather than in the corner, add a 24" island with a prep sink opposite the fridge.

Or you could put a prep sink where you have the corner sink and put the main sink where the lower corner is, expand the peninsula in both width and depth. That way you have two sinks convenient to the DW, a sink convenient to the bake center and a separate sink for the range. Of course if your going to be by yourself in the kitchen two sinks don't make much sense with them being close together like that.

I grew up with a corner sink on a peninsula and it was kind of nice to be able to access the sink from both sides. But with one faucet, we still had to wait for the water source, LOL.

{{!gwi}}

I hate corners so I would probably do what bmore suggested, but have that back wall empty. In other words, fridge and pantry/storage/wall oven? on the left and DW, sink, trash, range, peninsula on the right (in that order) with a prep sink at the end of the peninsula.

bmorepanic- I like it. Great idea. Putting a wall oven in that corner is a neat idea too...although I could really use some pantry space. I'll have to think about that.

backinthesaddle- what do you mean by keeping the back wall empty?

Any other input?? Does anyone know how what size cabinet I need for a regular 36" fridge? Someone mentioned earlier that 42" was too much?

I mean something like this:

{{!gwi}}

My measurements are off and IÂm using the Ikea planner so my choices are limited but thatÂs the general idea. You could have extra deep counters so itÂs not quite that expansive in the center and you might possibly squeeze the range in the fridge wall if you can give up the pantry.

It gives you a couple areas for larger storage space, a convenient place to prep and everyone wonÂt be on top of each other.

1. Yes, it's less than ideal to have to go around the island to get something from the fridge.
2. I'd give up the seating in favor of better aisle clearances.

I love bmorepanic's drawing! My old kitchen had dimensions similar to yours and had a peninsula that worked well. backinthesaddle's drawing might be more spacious and elegant, but I think you're going to need the extra counter and storage space with your large family. I like the corner pantry over the wall oven in the corner - it really maximizes the use of space. I still like the trash where you had it between the range and sink.

You need a 37 1/2" to 39" cabinet for a 36" range depending upon whether you go with 3/4" flat panels or 1 1/2" panels which leave about 3/4" on the inside for ventilation. The cavity must be 36" (36" fridges are almost always a hair shorter than 36" so they'll easily fit in a 36" cavity). I researched this because I couldn't afford to replace my existing fridge but wanted to leave space for a 36" fridge down the road.

Here is a picture of my 36" fridge cab which has 1 1/2" panels. I put a 36" cab on top and added tray dividers for storing sheet pans and cutting boards.

Chef Kev...Hope you know I wasn't against your plan...Just weighing, out loud (in writing?), how I might feel about the island/fridge thing. :-)

Thanks for all the help so far. You guys are awesome!! Can anyone tell me the size of the corner cabinet if I put ovens there? I have been doing searches, but haven't found anything yet. Thanks again.

I'm only just now "coming to the party" and haven't yet read all the posts in detail...but are you talking about putting your ovens in a corner similar to Alku05's? I think she used a 33" cabinet recessed into the corner. It took 48" of wall space on each wall (whether you recess it or not, it will take up the same amount of room on the walls).

HTH!

Assuming a 30" oven, 24" deep cabinets and applying the Pythagorean theorem (A2+B2=C2), making the corner cabinet 4'x 4' will give an opening of about 33.94125" which would be enough for 1 1/2" panels on each side with just under a 1/2" on either side for sliding in the oven. I would leave this much for planning purposes and cut filler to size if necessary when installing the range. FYI - 45.5" x 45.5" leaves a 30.405592" opening which I'm thinking will be too tight, but it really depends upon your cabinets. Also FYI - each 6" square on your grid is 8.4852814" on the diagonal.

rhome410 - I though you were extremely tactful and absolutely right. It bothered me when I did it, but I couldn't come up with a better solution and it was getting very late. If my tone came off as short it's because I stupidly managed to close my browser window and erase my entire entry just before submitting and had to rewrite it from scratch.

Check this thread out. Look for Alku05's second post with a link to her floorplan & kitchen. You will see what she did using a 33" cabinet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: basic attempt at kitchen layout with pix

Our 33" cabinet which houses 30" double ovens takes up about 48" of wall on either side of the corner. I have a thread saved with tons of details on how to fit ovens in a corner. Email me through the link on My Page if you'd like a copy.

Thanks for all the great posts and the info on the corner ovens. It has taken me awhile, but I used excel to make some possible layouts using your advice. It took me awhile to figure out how to post these since I don't have powerpoint on my home computer. Here are 5 layouts. The first 2 are basically what chefkev suggested but repositioning the fridge so the island isn't such a barrier. The next three are variations of bmorepanic's layout suggestion. Please let me know what you think. I listed pros and cons on each layout, so obviously none of them are perfect. I would like to know what you would choose! Also, help me decide if I should get two ovens with a large family or just go with a range to save cabinet space. What do you think???

Island 1

Island 2

Peninsula 1

Peninsula 2

Peninsula 3