Off you go, then...enjoy your holdidays. Turn off the cell phones and enjoy, enjoy, enjoy! Don't let her ruin or interrupt your time.

Yes we can't wait to go, it's very nice weather here in Western Australia, skids will be in the pool for 7 days straight!

so what exactly does she do? what disruption? could you clarify? how old are the kids? could it be that since they only go to dads every other wednesday but are with moms 24/7 all week, maybe she got used to taking care of them and does not fully trust that dad can take care of them? is she an overly protective type of mother?

The girls are 10 and 12. BM has control issues. DH has the kids every other week Wed to Sunday, so in between EOW and shared care.
I understand your questions, maybe I was a bit short, just wanted to share the stress-feeling when I felt it coming up.

BM is very controlling and manipulates skids, see previous posting of last week. She always finds something to try and spoil the fun for the skids when they are with us. The guilt-trip is nowadays the favorite. Or she will play 'the victim-card'. For example: this is what happened on our last holiday;
She rang the skids 1/2 hr before we were going away, just to wish them a nice time. I say Again, because we only just picked them up and they already took half an hour at her front door exchanging 1000 I Love You's, I Miss You Already's.
SK12 is starting to get more and more annoyed with this by the way. She just wants to give mom a hug, say it once and then go. But BM is insecure and needs to hear it over and over, and she gets very angry if SK12 decides that it's time to go, BM decides when it's time to go, nobody else.

So yes, we then came home and half an hour later the phone rang, BM wanted to just wish them a nice holiday. And make them feel guilty for going on a fun trip while mommy has to look after the baby all alone (yes the skids also are responsible for looking after the baby and are made to feel guilty if mom needs to do it herself)(skid12 is more of a mom to SK10 than BM, but that is for another time)
So the skids felt bad and got a bit quiet while talking to her over the phone,that's when she started questioning them why they were so quiet, didn't they want to talk to her, what was wrong, did they not appreciate their mom calling, blablabla.. They get questioned into tears (every time she rings pretty much, unless she's drunk, then they get promised the world on a silver platter), and once they feel that bad she feels better and then she can hang up the phone. Of we go on holidays with two upset girls...
Amazingly they always get over it really fast, I admire them for that.

So that sort of stuff stresses me out.
I don't like it how the skids get exposed to this behavior when they are at our place, we want to protect them from it and we can only do that when they are with us, I know.

I only know one way of protecting them from this harmful manipulation and it is to minimise contact between BM and the skids while they are with us, so they get a break from it.
This is easier said than done, because if the skids don't call her enough or if they don't answer the phone they're in trouble. That in itself seems to give them more stress than to make the call or to come to the phone.
They both have mobile phones, bought by BM, no need to say this bothers me big time but I keep my mouth shut.

Ok this is not a short message, again, but just to give you another example of the pressure, THE PRESSURE!
Once I was home alone, DH took skids to the pool and skids left their mobiles at home (they were in trouble when they got back to BM's place!)BM tried to ring SK12's phone, then SK10's phone. With no answer a normal person would assume they didn't hear it, were not there etc etc. But not BM. She went mental and rang both their phones 8 times in a row; plus the 2 initial calls that makes 18 calls.
By then she even got on our dogs' nerves!!!
As if she gets paranoid and thinks that they are there but just not answering, how about that for a control-issue?

So I ramble on, but I have work to do so thanks for your reply finedreams, it feels good to vent!

sounds pretty crazy, sounds like she is mental. i also wonder if she drinks (to the point of getting drunk) is it wise for the children to live with her? why does she have custody?

"Once I was home alone, DH took skids to the pool and skids left their mobiles at home (they were in trouble when they got back to BM's place!)BM tried to ring SK12's phone, then SK10's phone. With no answer a normal person would assume they didn't hear it, were not there etc etc. But not BM. She went mental and rang both their phones 8 times in a row; plus the 2 initial calls that makes 18 calls.
By then she even got on our dogs' nerves!!!"

I will not answer the phone if her number is on caller ID ... leave a message if its that important. So she rings the house phone, the fax number, and hubby's work cell, the boys each have a cellphone (she pays for) ... she will continue to call constantly until someone answers the phone will not leave messages. I go around shutting off ringers. I compare it to a young teen not getting their way. I tell the kids its their mom on the phone its on them to answer it ... she isn't calling to talk to me!!

She went so far one day to send the police to do a "welfare check" because she couldn't reach anyone ... when the police showed up she was still calling the house... he answered the phone and told her to stop calling unless it was a medical emergency she told the officer she thought her son was having an asthma attack. He wasn't home he was at his friends house... so she told the kids if they left here to go to friends houses they had to call her and give her the number to the friends houses or they couldn't go. So now if no one answers the phone she calls all their neighborhood friends to find out where they are so the friends mom's start calling here to find out if everything is ok.

And FD when you say that mom is overprotective and maybe dad isn't capable of caring for HIS children is a slap in the face. Some women are just hell bent on making others miserable for their own satisfaction... if dad isn't capable then don't send them. If dad's called mom's constantly about nonsense they would have restraining orders pinned on them but because mom is just "worried" about her kids its ok the make dad miserable.

I, personally, dislike cell phones. I have told my DD20 and my DS16 that should I be fortunate enough to get out of the house alone I don't want to here from them unless it is an emergency......I went to run errands the other day and left the cell phone in the car. I got 4 calls....3 from my husband wanting me to run extra errands and one from my SD30 in California to tell her dad that her dog had to be put down. My heart breaks for her but do I want take that call in the middle of a department store. I don't think so.

If at all possible I would have a special bag for the cell phones and when they arrive at your home the phones get turned off and put in the bag. Yours included unless husband or yourself are brain surgeons or something. Give the kids a scheduled time that they can check messages and return calls and then the phones go back in the bag. I would most certainly do that on a holiday....and by the way....my I come along to Australia?.....I would even do it for home visits. These cell phones are just a pain in the but. I tell my DS all the time to turn it OFF!!!! I am speaking to you, we are eating, I am trying to drive. My DH used to get annoyed when I wouldn't have mine on but not any longer. He can be glad that I carry one at all. I will choose if I want to return the call when I'm out.

slap in the face? which face? I was asking OP if mom thinks that maybe dad cannot take proper care of the kids since kids live with mom and maybe she is overprotective. i also wonder if they are very young, like maybe 2-year old. i asked OP for clarifications on what are the details. she did answer to me and now i can see that mom is just psycho not overly protective mother. but in any case none of this has anything to do with your situation.

and actually if there is court order mom has no option of not sending kids to dad.

i think if not one single person answers the phone the whole day, then mom has rights to be concerned and worried. of course if no one answers right this minute it is not a big deal but when no one answers for a very long time, anyone would worry. if i know my parents are home but don't answer neither cell phones no home phone for a long time, i will get in a car and drive there to see.

Pseudo_mom, I wanted to say I can't believe your story, but I CAN!! I'm almost surprised now that BM hasn't thought of doing the same yet, craaaaeeeiiizzzyy, oeoeoeoeoe

Finedreams, I agree that if no one answers the phone for a long time than it's understandable for the mom to be concerned. In the example of BM's phone habits that I wrote about, BM didn't try the home phone, i would have answered and told her the skids were in the pool and DH had his mobile on him, which she didn't try either. The situation is similar to Pseudo-mom's I reckon, where the BM 'uses' her right to be concerned as an excuse, but really it is just unhealthy behavior for an adult. And yes pseudo, mums get away with more in my opinion as well!

And to give you another example (oh boy I have a big box full of stuff!) BM let her own home phone be disconnected about 2 years ago so DH could not get in touch with her or skids. She did have a mobile but she would not answer it when he rang, or return his call. She kept that up for about a year. And it wasn't because she couldn't pay the bill, she has plenty money. She was drinking a lot at the time.

As for these mobile phones; the girls already got them when they were 7 and 9, BM bought them and insists they bring it everywhere. I'm with you Believer, I'm not hung up on them either. My suggestion for DH was straight away that the skids switch them off when they are with us. (Mine is usually on with the sound off so we don't have to hear it when it does ring, which is not often anyway). I see no need for a 7 year old to carry a mobile around! But anyway, DH does not want to make rules about it and I can also see his point of view. If DH tells them to switch it off the girls get very anxious because they know that they get in trouble with BM. DH does not want to put that extra stress on them and says that the disruption of BM ringing is less bad than for skids to be anxious all the time if mobiles were to be switched off.
I also suggested to DH to inform BM that it is HIS decision, not the girls', and for BM to discuss it with him if there are issues with that. But DH has a point that even if he would, BM will still go on and on about it to the skids, and therefore he allows the mobile phones in our home. It's a matter of opinion and this is his decision, I accept it because they are his kids.

I have to go now but I will respond to your question about the drinking of BM Finedreams, it's a good question.

Oh and we are not going to Australia for holidays, this is where I live! I moved here from Holland 4 years ago, hahaha

Lol. Is this my husband EX or WHAT!??? Yes, bm on my side also have major control issues and we also use to get phone calls liek crazy and yes the same damn thing...the guilt trips for the kids cause they are here for the weekend....what a loooooney! yes i miss my kids if he went for the weekend but i wouldn't call 18 times. She's done this before. We use to not answer but the phone wold just ring and ring...then i would shut it off completely...too bad. She would leave messages like 'i love you, miss you etc.et.c..' She's a pot head so when she's on the stuff you never know what ot expect for her. Her behaviour is so erratic. Now she's hopping jobs...i think by this summer we will have to go for custody because she is not providing a stable environment now.
My Dh is hesitant cause they're moral would suck here. All their friends are out of town..sooo..not a pretty picture.BUt what else are we to do if BM is now bouncing from job to job and she doesn't knwo when the next paycheck comes in? Has a hubby wioth no job andtheir relationship apparently isnot going well now.
i'm rambling..sorry!
I say enjoy the beach, shut all phones off and leave them at home. Keep on cell phone with you but turned off. Have the kids call mom at the beginning and when they want but dont let her spoil the vacation.

The BM in your situation sounds identical to my FSD's BM. She will bring her home early just so SHE can spend time with her before she has to go back to work. Hey......her time with her kid is not our problem. Whatever she chooses to do with her time has nothing to do with our visitation. She has her all the time and we get a few short hours (36 hours if she comes in a weekend).

But her motive is to get FSD back early. So she's promising her snowboarding when she gets back so FSD won't want to stay. 10 bucks says she doesn't even go when she gets back.
For instance, she asked FDH if FSD could come only from Friday to Thursday so she could go snowboarding when she got back. What?????? What about all the time she's there BEFORE she comes here? And what about the rest of the winter AFTER she comes here? So FDH said "no...how about Friday to Friday and she has all winter to go snowbarding"? I STILL think that's too lenient! I would've said "no.....Friday to Sunday and that's all I'll accept".

Wow do I recognize all of this!!! Hahahaha... we are in some predicament here ladies..

The promising of all this good stuff by BM before the skids come to our home, so they can't wait to go back to BM all weekend! We used to have that EOW when the skids came Fri to Sun (now they come already on Wed to Sun). BM still plays that game now, only she has developed several spin-offs of the original "Mc Donalds and a movie on Sunday when you come home". Perfecting the art one could say!

And then BM never follows through with it!! Ashley1979, does your FSD also believe it every time? This is what's amazing to me, how the skids fall for it time and again.
We never burst their bubble, but my god did I feel tempted sometimes to tell the skids that their mum will have a headache on Sunday, the car will brake down or BM can't go because she needs to wait for an important phonecall.

Spin-offs: telling the skids she will be doing all this fun stuff when the skids come to our place, so they miss out while they are stuck with us boring people.
Or worse; ringing up while she is doing all this fun stuff, to tell them how awsome it is and how she just wanted to share that with them. Miserable woman she is.

Ashley1979, in regards to FDH agreeing to bring FSD back to BM early for snowboarding; I agree with you and also think just keep it Fri-Sun, but my FDH will always let them go early as well and I'm learning to not worry about it. His kids, his decision, and I do understand why he does it. He says 'to let the kids go and give them the freedom means they will come back to me'. 'Even if that means that BM will take advantage of that, so be it'. He might just be right with that one. BM is so controlling and one day the skids will have enough, the tighter she pulls the rope the more they will want to get away. Give it a few more years.

My guess is you will be in for a hell of a fight organic_maria if you are going to try and get custody. BM in our situation is not a pothead but an alcoholic, so a drug-addict of some sort anyway. I have found it incredibly frustrating to see BM get away with murder and I can tell you; if BM is good at this game you might want to re-consider. It's a frightening experience for the kids and they will suffer stress when you do try and get custody. That might be unavoidable and sometimes the best thing is stiil to go ahead, but it's a tough one.

Say you get custody and the kids resent you for taking them 'away from their friends etc'. In our case the kids resented us for 'doing this to their mum' and that is not a good place either. She might be a drug-addict and life might be chaotic but if the kids are not ready yet they will 'defend mum' and back her up, lie for her if they have to. It's so understandable too; their mum is 'under attack'.

As I said, if BM has half a brain, she will get a job as soon as you file with the court. Say for example cleaning, or even better, 2 cleaning jobs. She can easily convince the judge that she is doing anything she can but with the recession it is hard and therefore she will even take on 2 cleaning jobs if she has to, anything for the kids.
And does she have a criminal record? If you don't have hard evidence for the drug habit than you can forget about proving that. Your word against hers, and the kids will cover it up if they have to. Loyalty to their own mum goes before anything and that is normal and healthy behaviour for kids. In our case the kids got interviewed by a court counsellor and they covered it all up, which we knew beforehand. We never tried to pursuade them to 'spill the beans' because you just can't ask kids to betray their own BM it is wrong. We didn't even want the kids to be interviewed because we'd rather keep them out of the proceedings (it being so stressfull for them), but BM has 'trained' them so well she insisted of course that they would be interviewed. Since they are now 10 and 12 the court thought it was a good idea, and in any 'normal circumstance' it would have been ok of course. So the kids 'performed well' and the only thing the counselor said afterwards was that they sounded a bit rehearsed. Because the girls were interviewed separately she put it down to them talking about it between the two of them and agreeing on what to say. The counselor saw it but didn't see it, so close though!

In our case everything went BM's way, but at least we know that we have tried everything we can. That is important for us, because when drugs are involved it's also not good to stand back and do nothing of course.
It might be worth first trying some other ways of dealing with her erratic behavior. She might agree to some counselling or parenting classes. Maybe you can get your visitation extended, we went from Friday to Wednesday which gives us 2 extra days a fortnight. This was done as a parenting plan in mediation sessions, so it stayed out of court (we went to court later on when BM kept breaching the orders). The BM might be keen to agree to mediation if she understands that it is better than to go to court. We tried all other avenues before we went to court and it seemed to work, until BM finally took it too far by keeping the kids with her when it was our scheduled visitation. We let it go numerous times to avoid the drastic measure of taking it to court, but after not seeing the kids for over a month for the X-th time we had enough and we needed to do something. That's what I meant before, sometimes it's just necessary to go to court, but it's always a hard decision.

I wish you all the best with it and I hope that things will work out for the better

Oh and keep a diary of events, dates, times, everything! You might need it one day.

Liesbeth,
I know she will get another job for sure. Her kids are her only playing card to use against my Dh and she will fight tooth and nail to keep it. She blatantly told her kids they have to stay with her till 18 years of age. Of course for cash. Nice huh?
We are considering it but we know it will be a hell fight so we will wait it out until it gets to the point where the kids will want to come by their own accord. I disgusted it with my husband last night and he felt that yes their moral would suck and its not fair to them. So we will wait it out and when they feel they need to leave and come here , the door will be open. But if they stay till 18 and then get kicked out...not sure about that. The door will open but under certain conditions....like....a job and fulltime school.
I feel that bm will boot her kids out at 18 cause she wont get money from gov and then it will more hassle to deal with them. This is the type of person she is.
I will help them..but i wont be a carpet. Dh and i already said they better get a job and be stable as adults or we not a free hotel either.
As for the pot...she can go off of it for a while and test negative..and then what..waste money in court and drag the kids into term oil and then they may turn aroudn and call us liars about their mom.
We will wait it out and let them find out for themselves what their mom is and just keep telling them that we love them. They already know the difference between both household are day and night.
and we are firm with her when dealing with her behaviour..most of the time she backs off these days....especially in the last 3 years...My Dh and i are a unit and we both stand together. Even his kids see it.
His daughter is starting to play games like her mom but we both stand firm and shut the door and stomp the fire away as a figure of speech , the saem we do with Bm...Sd comes back and apologizes or just plain stays low key cause she realized its not working. We willnot reward bad behaviour.

Is there anyone that your husband can take control over the phone situation? There is no reason for the BM to call more than once per day. The BM does have control issues if she's calling excessively and laying down guilt trips. Your husband needs to enforce the boundaries and take the burden off the girls.

Sounds like the BM is interjecting herself into your family with all the drama she creates.

"Ashley1979, does your FSD also believe it every time?"

Oh, yes! Even at 13 she still hasn't realized that they are nothing but empty promises. Funny thing is that FSD will make US jump through hoops just to do what BM says and then never follows through.

Couple of examples:

About 3 or 4 years ago, there was a haunted trail thing in our town. I knew nothing about this and was at Target doing some shopping with DS. FDH calls and asks where I am and then tells me that FSD wants to go to the haunted trail. I tell him fine and I'll see him when I get home. A couple minutes later, he calls back and asks me how close I am to leaving. I tell him I'm on the way to the check-out stand and there's a bit of a line so I'm not sure. So then a couple minutes later he calls again asking when I'll be done. I am getting a little miffed at this point and ask him if he'd rather me put my stuff away and not leave. FINALLY, he gets to the real issue. BM and SF and their baby are waiting at teh haunted trail for us and they keep calling FDH wanting to know where we are and when we're going to be there. So now I'm really pist. I pay and rush home, pick up FSD and FDH and drive over to the haunted trail. Turns out that they are still in line and they still have about an hour's wait. UGH!!!! I could've thrown them both out on the street and turned around and went home!

2. FSD stopped playing softball about 3 years ago due to the all-consuming extra-curricular activity she was involved in (I wrote extensively about it on another post). So, I was borrowing her fast-pitch softball bat for my adult co-ed league. So BM writes FDH this summer and tells him that FSd is going to play in the fall and would we please send the bat back with her on the plane when she comes back. Okay, fine. I was a tad disappointed because now I have to buy another bat and they're not cheap, but it's FSD's bat so okay. So we packaged it all up and sent it back. FSD reminded us no less that 50 times during her stay about it. Guess what? She never started playing! All that crap for a bat that's just sitting there while I had to buy myself another bat.

" BM is so controlling and one day the skids will have enough, the tighter she pulls the rope the more they will want to get away. Give it a few more years."

How true that statement is. My DS had to stay with my ex for a few years (beyond my control) although I was supposed to be able to have him a lot of the time. My ex was so controlling he wouldn't let him come a lot of the specified time and if it wasn't specified in the court papers, forget it. When my DS came to live with me permanently at age 12 he never saw ex again except for a couple of accidental times, won't have anything to do with him, doesn't acknowledge he's his dad. His first baby was born last week and ex doesn't know anything about it although he lives a couple miles from me. Victory is sweet but sometimes hard to wait for.

it is bizzare how FSD is not allowed to stay longer. and how BM makes up stuff. must be very frustrating.

but about that bat she wanted...

it was SD's bat. it is OK to borrow but if mom wanted it back then i don't see what is wrong wiht it.

why would BM even care that you have to buy expensive bat? you want to play, you buy. you are an adult. it is not like BM is your sister or even a friend.

and who knows why she didn't start playing and why mom wanted that bat. she does not have to explain.

i have DD's equastarian equipment. she does not ride anymore. it is too difficult where she lives now. but i still have that stuff. maybe DD will never ride again maybe she will. but i have rights to keep that stuff, i paid for it. DD might change her mind, whatever.

if i let someone to use it (which i would not) i would reserve my right to ask for it back.

and maybe BM does not want X's GF using somehting what she paid for. maybe she wants to sell it or let someone else use it. she does not need to explain.