I am looking forward to an answer to those 2 questions, but I bet it will be the old beat around the bush from them. They never seem to stay on topic....just pick words they can twist and they twist them to change the meaning of a post to serve the same purpose....tear apart the sm's because of their own issues they have not been able to deal with. Lets see what happens........................................................................................................................................................................

Why is it not permissible to yell at another adult?

I never said that violence was acceptable (although I would argue that it is, in fact, "equal" in many respects to laughing at someone), but rather that it shouldn't be unexpected.

Why is it not permissible to yell at another adult?!
Good gravy!

Because yelling is rude?
Because people don't listen when they are being yelled at?
Because when you allow your voice to get out of control, you may also allow your words to get out of control and say things you don't mean?
Because yelling is oral violence?
Because problems and anger should be dealt with constructively, allowing all parties to express themselves equally, which doesn't happen in a shouting match?
Because children who may overhear are often afraid of yelling?
Because yelling doesn't say "I love you, but I'm upset with you right now" or even "I respect that you are a human being, but I am upset with you right now"... It says "You are unworthy of my self-control"?
Shall I continue?

I would MUCH rather have someone yell at me than stab me in the back (figuratively, or literally for that matter, speaking). There are many people who have tons of "self control" and then exact their revenge in some passive-aggressive way.

There are many times when yelling at someone is not a good idea, but there are other situations where it is appropriate.

So yelling is permissible...but I am wrong for laughing?

Wow are you full of sh**! Sometimes you just need to admit your wrong TOS instead of trying to defend an idiotic point that makes no sense! Trying to defend her yelling at me after disappearing for 2 months, but condem me for laughing after she was gone for 2 months (not away at work, or serving in the military---gone out partying!)! So it is acceptable for her to chose partying over mothering, but it is not acceptable for me chosing mothering over just watching a little girl without a mom in her life reach out to me for love?

I do not recall your story, but I am assuming your dh left you.....gee-I could guess why! Maybe your a little stubborn and have trouble admitting when your dead wrong?
Why don't you try thinking before you post....and maybe get your stories straight (your lies about your life included!)

Sure, I think many people would prefer to be briefly yelled at than have some other revenge exacted upon them... But really, no one should be doing either!! If you have a problem with a person, you should deal with it in a calm and constructive manner, which includes neither shouting nor passive-aggressive revenge.

Oddly, your point was that yelling at other adults is permissible behavior... When I gave reasons I don't think it's permissible, you have backed up this point with that it's better than a different horrible behavior. Truly baffling.

violence is equal to laughing???

I should be locked up with the serial killers!

I would seriously LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to hear your X husbands side to the story.

Women have for the most part been socialized to think that yelling is unfeminine or b***y. However, mst powerful men would not hesitate to yell or even swear in the middle of a board meeting to get their point across. When used sparingly, a raised voice is a very powerful tool, used successfully to steamroll right over the opposition.

My exH (who was then my H) once yelled at a coworker over something work related. At the time I thought it was inappropriate and embarrassing. You know what he got for that kind of management - a PROMOTION.

There are MANY cases where yelling at someone is completely appropriate. I deeply regret having remained "calm and reasonable" during separation. I deeply regret not having called up the OW, yelled at her, and made her life h***.

If you always remain calm and constructive when someone is treating you like cr**, often it just allows them to get away with it. I think it was imamommy who blamed mothers for the high divorce rate in second marriages. Apparently imamommy is of the opinion that biological mothers who routinely call and yell at the SM and/or biological father, and who in general make their lives h*** are very effective at breaking up their relationship. If that is so, I wish I had known it was so easy.

"I think it was imamommy who blamed mothers for the high divorce rate in second marriages. Apparently imamommy is of the opinion that biological mothers who routinely call and yell at the SM and/or biological father, and who in general make their lives h*** are very effective at breaking up their relationship. If that is so, I wish I had known it was so easy."

Yes, that's true that I believe that a biological mother that thinks they can control what happens in dad/stepmom's house can put strain on the new relationship, thus contributing to a breakup. I wouldn't say it's a direct result, there are probably other issues as well (as with any divorce, it's rarely ONE thing).

In your case TOS, I don't think it would have helped for you to call TOW and yell at her. It might have made you feel better but probably not get you your husband back. It's an unfortunate thing that you have suffered losing your life partner, but as I am reading your message, I can't help but think that since you passed up the opportunity to make her life h***, you are taking it out on us here. Thanks.

That I think yelling is unacceptable and immature has nothing to do with gender. I have as little respect for shouting men as for shouting women.
It's true that we're socialized into rigid and ridiculous gender roles, but that doesn't make it right to use these things as excuses for bad behavior. Women are also socialized into a Madonna/Wh0re dichotomy, while men are socialized into promiscuity and sexual conquest as a sign of masculinity, but I don't think that's right either.

Another important point is that what may be "acceptable" or even rewarded in a workplace is not necessarily appropriate behavior in your home life. (Although I wouldn't work somewhere that yelling was considered a good thing)

I don't think you should regret not having yelled and exacted revenge upon TOW. IMO, keeping your dignity and self-respect because you didn't stoop to revenge and shouting is long-term much more important than making someone else feel bad about themselves.

High five, Ima!

I wouldn't yell at the OW in order to make her feel bad about herself - obviously she already has little self-respect, if she was willing to sleep with a married man. If my making her life miserable could had led to the break-up of their relationship, whether or not I got my husband back, at least the kids might have gotten their father back. You see it all the time - when men (or women) are not in relationships they spend lots of time with their children, but as soon as they are in a relationship, the children fall by the wayside.

Again ... that's on him to be a dad to his children... he can stand up to his wife for his children or he just can do what he has been doing ... but either way it was HIS CHOICE ...

Same as many of the BM's in our situations have made choices. We do not agree with their choices but they made them and "our" SC suffer from it and we deal with the after effects... by mothering children... even if they are not our own. We still care for them as if they were ... because they are part of "our family".

Yes there are some who would rather not have the kids around you will find that in many cases... many SD's don't want kids around either.

Wouldn't you rather have a woman in your ex's life that promoted his relationship with his children and helped him along the way with that relationship?

I may not agree with mom's choice but I "still" promote her relationship with her children ... and yes I give them the tools they need to survive in the real world ... and "oh well" if they have to use those same techniques with their mom. But atleast they have learned something.

The yelling aspect was done in FRONT OF A CHILD IN FRONT OF HER CAREGIVER! There is NO EXCUSES. This 'mother' was in the wrong period. There is no excuse , no explanation for her behaviour period!
The mere fact that she chose to act in such a manner,
1. In front of her child
2. In public
3. For a stupid reason
4. In front of her child
5.In front of her child

Proves she is a unfit mother and the father and stepmother to take back the child did the right thing.
To top it off
THIS BIOMOM LIED IN FRONT OF THE POLICE AND ACCUSED THE STEPMOM OF SLAPPING HER OUT. LIAR , LIAR LIAR. UNFIT HUMAN BEING!

Tos there is no excuse or justified reason for the biomom to behave the way she did., HER ACTIONS PROVE . that:
1. She is an unfit mother
2. She is a liar
3. she is violent
4. She doesnt' care for the child because if she did, she would not have acted that way. It was not in the best interest for the child to see this.
5. The child's reaction says it all
This is one of the examples of unfit mothers or fathers in this world. The other woman sindrome will not fit this situation no matter how you twist.
Her actions have proved it. This case is shut and closed done deal.
The mother needs counciling and should be under supervised visits.

"You see it all the time - when men (or women) are not in relationships they spend lots of time with their children, but as soon as they are in a relationship, the children fall by the wayside."

And do you believe such a parent should be treated the same as a parent that stays constantly involved with their child?

"Wouldn't you rather have a woman in your ex's life that promoted his relationship with his children and helped him along the way with that relationship?"

As opposed to what? A woman who tries to sabotage his relationship with his children - of course. A woman who stands back and lets him develop his own relationship with his children? No.

It is not up to the stepparent to decide how to "treat" the biological parent. Their interaction should be minimal.

"It is not up to the stepparent to decide how to "treat" the biological parent. Their interaction should be minimal."
I'm going to assume you meant "how to "treat" the child", because that's what the rest of the post seemed to be about...
Sorry if you meant what you actually typed.

In many cases, standing back is not what's best, and I don't think it's reasonable to apply a blanket solution to every relationship.
Remember what I posted about my brother and his GF? That his GF takes her bad moods out on her 13yo daughter and yells at her when she's mad at my brother, her mom, her boss, herself, the paperboy, etc... And my brother sticks up for her and says "She did nothing wrong. You're not mad at her, so don't take this out on her. No one deserves to be yelled at. She deserves to be treated with respect!"
His job has him home a lot in the afternoon, so he sticks around to see how her school day was in order to allow her to talk about it without being told all the things she did wrong... Stuff like that.

Should my brother be standing back and allowing the relationship between her and her mother to trample her self esteem? I don't think so!

It's nearly impossible, when you live together (married or not) to stand back and not be involved with the people in your home/life. Should a new spouse demand to always be included, of course not. They should respect the parent/child relationship. But should they always be excluded or told to stay out of it, that's my child!, no way. Not if it affects the new spouse. And if they live in the same house or the child visits in their house, it affects them. Period!!!

Actually, it was not a typo. I was responding to:

"And do you believe such a parent should be treated the same as a parent that stays constantly involved with their child?"

I wasn't asking if the step parent should decide how to treat the biological parent. I was asking you if you think, for example, your ex husband (since you keep saying how little he see's his children) should have the same level of input as if he were involved with his children, seeing them on a regular basis? Do you think he has the right to call you up out of the blue and tell you what to do? Forget that a step parent is even involved.

I can tell you that I raised my two younger children without their biological father's coming around and if I got a phone call and was told that I should be doing things a different way, just because they share DNA, I'd tell 'em to take a flying leap. It takes more than the contribution of egg or sperm to make a parent. At least in my book. You can have your own view on that, but then again, you said you would take back your ex even though he's chosen his wife's money over his kids. That must be okay in your book.

If he was no longer with his wife, and he called up with an opinion, his opinion would be important. He couldn't "tell me what to do" anymore than he could when we were married. What I am not interested in is his wife's opinion.

So you automatically assume that if ExH calls with an opinion and he's still with his wife that it's her opinion?

Does it really matter? He's your children's father. And if I'm not mistaken, aren't you the one that has been lecturing us all on listening to the OP because their opinion matters too?

Yes, it matters a great deal. Yes, I KNOW it is her opinion because she talks over him in the background, telling him what to say.

Hypothetically, if your exH's wife had a really good idea for your children, he called and gave this opinion, and you could hear her talking over him in the background so knew it was her opinion, would you still not be interested?

Please don't say "she never has good ideas or valuable opinions". Please think this hypothetical situation over and let me know. I'm quite curious and I won't give you heck if you say "No, I'd think it was crap because she thought it up!" and I won't applaud you if you say "Absolutely! A good idea is a good idea, no matter the source!"
If you prefer to not post your reply here, you can email me at cephalin23-AT-hotmail.com. I'd genuinely like to know.

Big deal. If it's a good idea it shouldn't matter who had it.

That's just too extreme because you dislike someone. I'm sorry but, if it's in the best interest of my child and my ExH's wife comes up with something that makes sense and would be great, while I can't stand her, I'd take her suggestion and use it because it's for my son. It didn't have a damned thing to do with me.

obviously she already has little self-respect, if she was willing to sleep with a married man

Oh I don't know about that TOS - I bet your ex could paint a pretty dismal picture of what life with you must have been like

ceph,

If she has a good idea for a xmas present or something, that is ok with me.

It is annoying to me, and quite obviously even more so to my exH, for her to talk over him when he is on the phone, and to act like he can't possibly form a coherent thought without her assistance. I can hear him getting more and more tense, and occasionally ending the phone call in the middle of a sentence - not while I am talking, but while he is.

mlly,

Of what relevance is it whether I was the greatest wife on earth or the worst? People who respect themselves do not sleep with a married man (or woman).

TOS, you still didn't answer the question. The question had nothing to do with his wife being there or not. I'll re-phrase it:

Should a parent that isn't in a child's life continually (ie. regular visitation or contact) have the same input as a parent that takes off for months/years with no contact, then shows up when they feel like it?