Thurman,

Don't do it!! No e-mail, it's not worth it. Just ride out the visit. Maybe she should have asked you about the flashlight and lightbulbs but they seem like small things. Plus she saved you a trip by getting her own lightbulb.

On coffee, your son, or anything like that...well, nicely ask her to bow out. I used to give unsolicited opinions about my stepson and stepgrandson without realizing just how unwelcome those comments were! I had to learn the hard way. SD probably doesn't understand how such comments go over.

Sounds like she'll be gone soon. This forum is a great place to let off steam without starting WWIII.

I think the lightbulb thing and flashlight thing are really not a big deal! So what if she replaced a lightbulb??? Isnt that nicer than bugging you to do it? And if you have flashlights all over the house I hardly think one being moved is a big issue!! As for the coffee thing she was on your side!!

I think that you are looking for complaints.

Oh for the love of Mike. What nothingness to get you knickers in a twist about. Next you'll be complaining she's breathing your air without permission.
So what if she borrowed a flashlight? By your own admission you have multiple flashlights. SD's probably not thinking, "Oh, I'll show SD who's in control around here and use one of the flashlights," she's more likely thinking, "I need a flahlight, this is my home, there's a flashlight in my home, I'll borrow that one". Unless it has your name engraved on it and "To be used in power outages only" she probably had no idea it would upset you to move it.
The lightbulb is even pettier. If I'm visiting and a lightbulb goes out, I change it. I change the toilet paper. I fix any little thing I see that might need fixing. If SD had come to you and asked you to change the lightbulb for her, you'd no doubt be saying, "What a lazy a$$, expects me to change her lightbulbs for her." As "homeowner domain" issues, these are incredibly tiny potatoes.
The only thing you really have to object to is her interjection into your parental discussion. As has been pointed out, all you had to do was say, "Sorry, this is a discussion between your mother and me; your input is not required."
You seriously need to lighten up.

When staying with my mother and stepfather, I pretty much help myself to whatever I need, TP, light's, extra blankets, soap-whatever. My stepfather has never considered specific areas in the house to be under his domain-it's their house/home. We are always made to feel welcome. When any of the adult kids visit we are welcome to treat it as our home. However I have a very good relationship with my SF.

I think you sound a bit on the controlling side Thurman,
(being controlling myself by nature I recognize it) Seriously other than perhaps telling her the issue with your son drinking coffee is between you & her mother. And even that, didn't you say she's a medical student or something along those lines? Sounds like she was just expressing an opinion not trying to weigh in on the decision.

Your SD brought you a thoughtful gift, I think she has extended the olive branch on more than one occasion.

How you can even enjoy yourself at all with having to enforce all those little *unspoken* rules. It must make it difficult to enjoy the little things when you are constantly on guard-really, stop.

NO!NO!NO!-DO NOT send the email, that would be very bad. That is one of those things a wife may never forgive. You can't take it back once it's out there.
Suck it up, be nice and let your wife enjoy her time with her DD. Otherwise your wife may become very resentful towards you over it.

Can I ask you how do you envision a good visit from your SD going? Try to remember during these visits that she may be as uncomfortable staying there as you are having her. Maybe she only stays there as to not hurt her mothers feelings.

"My SD comes home and takes a flashlight and uses it for reading. I don't care if she uses it--it's the idea that she didn't even ask me. "

Did she take this from your bedroom? Unless she was invading your personal space, this is utterly ridiculous. And I have had my personal things taken out of our bedroom so I do know what it feels like to have your space violated.

What is the REAL issue here? Are you threatened by her in some way? I ask because my DH used to behave in the same manner when DS lived with us and should tell you I still to this day cannot get over how my DS was treated. I think he resented his very exhistence at times. You may be going down the same road of resentment-not good.

Please re think your feelings and try to get to the real issue behind all this. Why do her visits bring about such anger for you? I know you love your DW so I hope you address this. I strongly suggest getting involved in CODA. It's been extremely enlightening and life saving to me.

~Cat

Dear Folks

Merry Christmas (to all who celebrate it). Thanks for your shared wisdom here.

I know those items sound picky and petty. The underlying issue is not being respected. This has gone on since SD was a little child. She has a problem with seeing me as an authority figure. I'm not talking about as an authority figure in her life-- but in this home. So, things that she would ask her mother permission for (like eating in the living room, eating in her bedroom), she would walk by me without permission when her mother wasn't here. When I would share such incivilities with my wife, she would defend her daughter. That is just one of many such incidents. As you can imagine, I'm very sensitive to the issue of respect.

I think my SD has grown a little in terms of kindness. She is better than she was 10, 5 or even 2 years ago. Her personality is a little warmer. But anything that has to with her having to "answer to me" or "ask my permission" for something she can't do. Classic case: I'm sitting downstairs alone. She in downstairs. Instead of asking my permission to do X Y or Z (or even to inform me about something), she will go all the way upstairs to ask her mother--no matter what her mother is doing (once she was on the toilet).

So, context and history matter so much. It's not easy to forgive and forget, especially when SD is never challenged and wife defends her to the hilt.

No justice, no peace.

Thurman

she is a grown woman and you are not any authority figure for her and why should you be? What does she need a permission for? and why asking you intead of her own mother? it is not 1950s, is it?

she should not interfer in your parenting your son but helping herself wiht flashlights or bulbs is perfectly fine...it sounds like you think it is your house and your things rather than yours and her mom's.

She is a grown woman visiting her mother's house, she does not need your permission to do things. unless she takes some posessions that are persoanlly yours, I don't see any issue.

You sound like a pain in you know what...I would not allow any men to treat my daughter this way. My daughter does not need anyone's permission to change lightbulbs in neither mine nor her dad's house. ridicilous.

Having house guests, even loved ones, can be stressful. 3 of mine have now left, one still here. All people I love, but its good to have my house back.

I am grateful for these people in my life, and I am glad they visit me. I accept they do things differently.

Yea, I think Thurman you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's not 2, 5 or 10 years ago-IT IS NOW and she is grown and shouldn't need permission to do normal everyday things. If you keep this up your wife will end up running for the hills.

Put a rubber band around your wrist and everytime you start feeling angry about some perceived threat/slight/insult whatever snap the he** out of that thing and pull it together. Otherwise I think your going to say/do regrettable things your wife may not forgive.

Seek some enlightenment about your control issues. Things like this are a huge part of the reason I am leaving my DH..Think about it. Especially my having no say so in the home. It's just not worth it. Keep pushing it & I bet your wife feels the same.

It's not about No Justice, No Peace -this isn't warfare here, it's a short visit that has a finite number of days. Surely you can pull it together for a few more days? I think you better or your wife might kick your can.

~Cat

I forgot to add, Thurman I hope in spite all this that you did enjoy Christmas and had a lovely day with your family.

Cause that's what it is really about. Let the little things fall away for the day and just be there in the moment. I know it's tough, today is my day and I'm going to really try and make it happen for my GS's sake.

~Cat

"my domain" says it all.

Get over it, Thurman.

Nobody is going to ask your permission to replace a lightbulb.

Your resentment of your wife's daughter is obnoxious.

For those readers who think this is harsh, put thurman's name in the search box on teh main forum page & read what comes up.

I have experienced many of the rude and disrespectful incivilities you cited in some of your previous posts. Mainly it was things like SD25 would walk into the room and say hello to all but me, or if I'd walk into a room she'd usually abandon whatever she was doing just to make a quick exit, I'd catch her sticking her tongue out at me or making faces. I have usually been one of the few to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't this time.

In this case I think you are the one with the problem. It seems like you are still holding on to so much anger from the past that anything your SD does will be cause for issue. She can't win for losing. When you were a younger man visiting your parents did you have to ask permission to change a light bulb? Do you know how nutty and ridiculous this sounds? Do not send the email.

Hi folks~

Thanks for your good advice. Even the criticisms are helpful.

I will not send the email. Plus-- my wife and I have considerable marital issues independent of the step-family stuff. Such an email might end up being the tipping point.

Two more days. Two more days. Two more days.

But then I found out today that the wife has tickets to some event near my SD's place...and they are for next week. So more terror ahead, although I might be able to escape that trip by giving up my ticket to someone else (which is 7 hours each way).

Bless you all.

Thurman

How about being upset that SD sent Christmas card to his parents without his concent. LOL

Then the fact that he knew SD since she was 8 and yet he complains that she never went to visit his parents out of state. And she only saw them twice in her life. ha Let's blame a child. 8-year-old children do not travel out of state to see stepgrandparents on their own, they need to be taken there. Apparently thurman's parents also never visited, but somehow that is OK. If you don't take your children to their garndparents and they don't visit themselves then you have no rights to blame children, how about blaming who really is to blame here: himself and his parents not a child.

and then telling his wife not allow SD at his father's funeral. As sorry as I was for his lost of his father, i had hard time sympathizing with such mean actions. wouldn't even ban a neighbour from a funeral let alone a stepdaughter.

Or how about being upset that people gave speeches at SD's medical school graduation saying how great she was. he was upset people know her as nice person and didn't say nasty things about her at her graduation.

Com'n it is OK to vent here but it is as bizzare as it gets. I still think he just makes this stuff up to aggravate us, nobody can be this way for real. Or he is just so consumed wiht jealousy and envy that can't even think straight.

It reminds me of a recent post of someone who admits being very strict homophobic racist and then surprised SKs don't like him. Well, duh

"I still think he just makes this stuff up to aggravate us, nobody can be this way for real."

I've puzzled over that every now & then...
but even if it is some bored person making fun, I know there really are people like "Thurman" out there.

& it's just mean to post something this mean.

& it's mean to post something mean to provoke a reaction.

Thurman -

Clearly you've gained some insight into your issues with your SD. How about taking that to the next level by scheduling a few sessions with a professional to 1) vent, and 2) start to move past it? You've acknowledged that these new incidents are really very small, and that they only bother you because of your history and past issues -- so deal with the past issues already!

I dunno, but I think this is a case of someone who probably had some legitimate gripes a long, long time ago, and instead of moving on, he just hung on to everything and began looking for more infractions. The end result is that he is entirely consumed by every single thing SD does and this whole bizarre thing has taken on a life of its own.

I think that maybe since thurman and his wife have considerable marriage difficulties beyond stepchildren issue, he projects his marriage troubles (and possibly wife trouble) on SD, it takes focus away from what really needs to be resolved.

It is easier to focus on something that is beyond his control, such as SD, instead of what is within his control: his marriage troubles. it is easier this way. It is also easier to say that marriage is not working because SD contributes to it, instead of admitting that he himself (and maybe his wife) contribute to their own problems.

In past posts, he's been extremely angry & jealous about his wife's relationship with her daughter, wanted the daughter out, wanted the wife all to himself, etc.

One of the main things an abuser does is to isolate the victim.

Hey, Thurman, do you have a job?

thurman,

sounds to me as though you have had legitimate gripes with SD over the years and your resentment of her has built up to a place where even little things are irritating. It's pretty understandable. And with your wife always defending/siding with SD it has put you in a tough spot.

Just let the holidays go by, let them go to the other event, use the time to calm yourself and relax. Be grateful SD isn't around all of the time. But, it doesn't sound like she's that bad now, just years of accumulated stuff getting to you.

I for one can relate to that.

The more I read this stuff, the more I think "Thurman" may have started out at least semi-legitimate, but he's got a brain, & he's using it to play us.

What an entertaining way to spend the day after Christmas.

Hi folks~

Just a quick reply: I'm not making any of this up. They are real events and not imagined. It is a list that has really helped me. Try to understand: if you are in a marriage where you can share anything about your SD, your SD is defensive and has grown up knowing Mommy has her back and not her husband's, and relatives/pastors/friends just don't understand stepfamily life unless they too have lived it, where else can you turn?

I know the events sound picky. But multiple these things by 20 years and thousands of incivilities, and you can see why I might be way I am.

On sunday, I thought my SD spoke to my wife disrespectfully. She is nearly 30 now and is starting to get a little big for her britches. I will not get into details about it-- but what I felt ashamed about was how I was paralyzed to say something in defense of my wife. My wife--who is so vocal and assertive-- said absolutely nothing. If that was our son, she would have admonished him on the spot and would have killed me for not saying something if I'd witnessed it. But knowing my wife has SD's back, I sat there like a moron not sticking up for my wife, knowing she would leap on me for correcting her daughter. That's just a very minor minor thing, but it highlights the insanity and dysfunction.

So, please, understand I'm not making this up. This is all too real.

Thurman

yeah.

When your truthfulness was challenged, you "share" that this grown, educated, professional woman "spoke disrespectfully" to your wife (what'd she do, ask for some toast?), that she's "too big for her britches" (howz *that* for disrespect???), & that your wife, who up til now has been portrayed as a peacemaker & compromiser, is "vocal & asssertive", but that she seems to be intimidated by this daughter.

but when you started the thread, the problem was that...
she changed a light bulb.

"She is nearly 30 now and is starting to get a little big for her britches"

LOL. I am 29 years old and would probably either keel over from shock or die laughing if either of my parents told me I was too big for my britches.

I am totally confused here. This is a GROWN WOMAN we are talking about! An educated woman with a professional career, yes?

I understand that there is a past history and sometimes it can be hard to let go of that; I also understand that little things can all add up. I ALSO understand that sometimes, when there is a bigger issue at hand, the LITTLE things can seem worse than they are. Really, that must be what's going on because these things you are complaining about, Thurman, ARE trivial things!

Thurman,

I think you keep forgetting the golden rule. We should treat others how we would like to be treated. I believe you are expecting respect, but you refuse to give respect. You pick her apart whenever you are given the opportunity. I have a hard time believing that you haven't always done that. And then you expect her to respect you and seek out your opinion. If you were dealing with somebody who always had a negative attitude about you, would you actively seek that person's opinion? I doubt it.

Do you expect your son to consult you every time he uses a flashlight or changes a lightbulb?

unless she threatened your wife with a knife or called her offensive names, how do you define being disrespectful ? well maybe everybody occassionally is not respectful but I guess mom and daughter can figure it out between themselves, not the end of the world. you previously mentioned how your wife and your son get along with her and now all of a sudden she intimitidates her mother...I still think you project your marriage difficulties on SD. I am yet to see what does she do that is wrong. I understand you dislike her but I don't see any particular reason why.

My wonderful SK's piled snow on my SUV and around my tires so that I could not get out this morning. To say the least I was not happy. Their dad woke them up and made them clear the snow so i could go to work. Later at lunch they described to me how hard they worked to get that snow just right. They even set the alarm so they could wake up in time to see me having a hard time getting out of the drive. I told them they must really care alot to put that much effort into a prank on me. We all laughed, my MIL & FIL were just amused by the whole thing. And now that its later in the day I am to. No harm done just kids having fun. I gave them the shovel last night. SUCKER!!!

My point in telling this is flash light & light bulb borrowing is not a lack of respect. Really there are so many terrible things that your SD could be doing. Be greatful for her besides insn't that what Christmas is about not a nice christmas gift.

although it could be just a prank, I would worry why did SDs play such prank? It is really very wrong thing to do, not funny at all. It is very unkind. So they found it to be funny that you cannot get your car out and cannot go to work?

I find it very alarming. I would ask their dad to get to a bottom of this. I mean you got to hate someone to do it to them.

I have a friend who was married to abusive man and he used to create situations so she couldn't go to work: taking parts out of the engine, putting alarm system in without telling her, piling stuff in front or in the back etc. He was very abusive and it was his way of controlling her.

Interfering wiht person's ability to go to work is a form of abuse. They knew you would be upset and that's why they did it: to cause you pain and frustration. It would scare me if my DD do this to anyone. What you described is unacceptable and pretty scary. Kind people don't do stuff like that.

"Kind people don't do stuff like that. "

Kind people don't do stuff like that twice when Dad gets them out of bed to shovel the snow away and StepMom laughs about it.

Well handled Jess!

Not to diminish your friend's experience FD -- but unless proved otherwise, I prefer Jess's handling of this incident. Your friend's Hubby was one sick ba$tard.

sweeby, I don't remember suggesting any other forms of handling anything or even discussing the way jess handled it.

My concern is not about how to handle it (of course tell them to clean it up what else?) but why they did in the first place. It is very unkind action on their part and I would want to know what causes such action, either lack of maturity, or deep seated anger, or something else...

I think this issue is so much deeper, much deeper than making a joke. Of course they will not do it again because they were told to clean, but it is not where the issue is, whatever feelings caused them to do in the first place are still there...and they aren't getting addressed (are they in therapy?).

It is nice jess laughed and dad made them clean but kids are still angry, i mean it might be funny for some people but there is something deeply disturbing there...

Friend's experience is nothing to do with it just an example of people creating unberable situations for others, that guy was a very angry person. These children possibly have a lot of anger in them as well if they want to hurt someone that much. I would want to know why.

I mean of course parents can ignore it, but then in 10 years much deeper issues would surface...Unresolved anger is a powerful tool. I would want to know what caused my DD to do something like that. I don't know what type of job OP does but most people would be in trouble not showing up on time, my DD would know what problems it would caused me or her father or her SM or her grandparents if we would not show up to work on time. If she did something like that i would know she is deeply disturbed and I would want to know why. cleaning up the mess is good, but there is more in to it.

I was staying out of this because I think thurman is a pr**k. He would have complained she is bugging me for stupid sh1t making me change a lightbulb asking if she can use a flashlight when she knows I have them every where in my domain.

But FD come on deep seeded anger because the kids shoveled in her car? they did it to piss her off??? I thought children couldn't hold such anger ... couldn't do things to be spiteful thats what I have heard from the BM brigade for years.

Yeah it sucked ... but she knew who did it and it was meant to be funny .... sometimes kids pull pranks adults do not find funny .... if adults pull pranks different ball game to compare the two is just foolish

agree with sweeby about your friends hubby.

Thanks Sweeby! I have learned alot about how to be a StepMom in the last 6 months and still learning.

Finedreams: Yes they are in theropy and still have some issues. Part of why they pulled that stunt is because I got a new SUV and their mom just lost hers. That was my first thought and I am positive that had something to do with it. Bottom line is they are the ones that had the consequence and they will not do that again.They are still young kids so maturity really doesnt play in here. MY DH owns his own firm and I run his office so they knew I would not be in trouble. That was one of their lines they gave as to why they thought I would not be mad I was late. they are not mean kids. They are very sweet and respectful kids (at least to my face anyway). ha ha

I can remember pulling pranks as a kid,at the time they seemed like a good idea later not so smart on my part.

Sometimes a stupid prank is just a stupid prank.
Some times, it IS a veiled expression of deep-seated hostility that warrants psychological intervention.
And other times it starts as a stupid prank, then gets blown up into a major incident because someone misinterpreted it as more than it was.

I'll trust Jess to be able to tell where this stunt rightly falls.

Thurman,
I've read your story for a few years now. I've told you this in the past, its obvious throughout the years and the issues both you and your sd have had with one another resentment has built on both sides.
Your side of the coin hasn't changed. You want respect and you want control over your household. Your sd now is an adult woman, 30 years old. How you want respect and how you go about wanting to control your household cannot be applied to this adult the way you wanted it all these years. You dont like her one bit and this is why you pick at everything she does. the lightbulb, the flashlight...etc... She didn't listen toyou back then because of her mom and now that she is an adult , she definitely knows she doesn't need or want your permission. In her mind, this is her mother house too and since her relationship is strained with you and has resentment, she is not going to ask you permission for anything. She knows you want power over and she as an adult will never give it to you.
You as a person have to let go...sorry, i know the many years of stacked bullsh*t, you really can't stand her...but, i blame your wife, not your sd for her actions. Cause mommy had her back and its obvious. You chose to stay in this marriage all these years. She doesn't live with you.....so to have to deal with her a few times out of the year is not bad. If its so bad to you thurman, keep yourself busy and out of each others hairs.

psst, finedreams, you'd not find my household 'funny' I'm sure from time to time, but living in it myself I am the judge as to what is 'funny' and a prank as I know my kids and know their hearts.

My son was once asked to clean up the driveway and around the vehicles after a huge snow during his HS years. Yep, he did and I'm sure he snickered with delight standing back to admire his handiwork. He totally delighted my little village with his antics.

When I emerged from the house to head into the city, I saw a excellent job of a cleared drive, daddy's car spotless, warmed and ready to go, and my truck? Well he'd cleaned it off, warmed it up and had used all the snow to build a big snowman in the bed of my truck. Complete with a sign that read 'help, I've been kidnapped'.

I drove into town, got lots of pointing and laughing from other drivers and actually had great weight from sliding around. Yeah, the son got a big laugh, I looked the fool, and the son I'm sure was not surprised I ignored it and handled it well--he knows his momma well too.

Now what would not have been a prank/joke would be like what I read in the paper headlines this week where a son put anti-freeze in his mother's auto coffee maker and now claims it was a 'joke'. Now there's deep seeded anger and harboring harm and hardship towards someone.

justmetoo I don't know what is funny in other people's households. neither do I care. somebody on this forum said it is a normal thing in her household for children to pull each other hair, shove each other, bite, scratch and punch babies in a face, hmmm i don't think so but every household is different.

jess shared previously that because she was TOW, children were angry at her for a long time, didn't want to meet her etc and now they blocked her car and as I see now their mom lost her car.

these children were/are angry and upset. yes under certain circumstances pranks are just pranks but under her circumstances there is more to it. but people are free to ignore. only time will tell.

I never said these children are mean but there are reasons for their actions, i am glad there are in therapy and hope it helps.

"I thought children couldn't hold such anger ... couldn't do things to be spiteful thats what I have heard from the BM brigade for years."

I don't know what is BM brigade, but it must be very painful when your father leaves your mother for TOW and yes there would certainly be a lot of anger. my parents are together and I am in my 40s but if my dad had an affair and subsequently left my mother I would be very hurt, i would not harm her but I would be angry at my father and his ...can't think of a good word. and if I would be forced to sit at the same table and pretend what a wonderful SM she is and what a cute little family...I don't know...maybe my brother and I would conspire something who knows..I never been in such situation and can only imagine the awfullness of it.

must be hard, why do people think it is easy for children i don't know...

Well then I guess your ex's middle child must be plotting his revenge...

Has he enlisted your DD in consipiring against their new SM?

well, finedreams, in the case that you ever see me write that I think it is funny and/or normal for kids to beat on each other and/or for anyone to punch babies, you may feel free to 'cyber slap' me silly--but up to or until then don't compare what "I" say to what someone else says or does and/or writes in the past.

I sometimes get the impression that you sit there with a tally sheet with columns titlted a)BM side ; b) SM side; c) TOW side.

I think if you actually pay any attention to what "I" write here you will find that I truly base my opinions on what is stated in or hanging between the lines in and that I fall on the side that I feel is correct in the given postings. You won't find me siding with/against a BM just cause she's a BM or the SM just cause she's the SM.

You'll also notice that though we are hijacking Thurman's post, I have paid no attention to what Thurman is whining about, cause I think Thurman just likes rattling chains in his spare time for kicks and giggles.

'Well then I guess your ex's middle child must be plotting his revenge...

Has he enlisted your DD in conspiring against their new SM?'

yeap, you got it, I won't reveal their plans in here just in case it doesn't go through. lol on a serious note I have no control what my exhusband does, and what his son does, he is not my son. maybe he is planning some evil deeds, who knows. he lives with his dad and SM, not with me. and his long=term girlfriend is not DD's mother, i am. a bit different from jess's situation. her husband, her stepchildren, his exwife etc. my ex's family is not mine.