nicksmom

I would be livid!!!! I don't want to insult your DH....so I won't.....I'm sure you have enough going through your head about him. What kind of a trainer over steps a Doctor's orders or touches a patient? Unbelievable. I hope that SD doesn't have permanent damage. That would be a horrible way to have to learn a lesson......I'd want to kill them all...you must be a saint.

believer,

Ssshhhhhh! Don't blow my cover. I am a saint, really I am. But don't tell anyone! I'm afraid I'll lose my sainthood if this turns out bad!

Thanks!

Ouch! I'd be plenty mad too! And I can't imagine a trainer doing that... Was it the head trainer or a student assistant? And was he/she aware it was a full break and not just a sprain? Oh well...

But yet another argument for assertiveness training for SD!

How right you are sweeby! That was the first thing that crossed my mind! Well, not the first, but.....

This is ridiculous!
What is going on in your DH's head??
His actions are at least 26 times stupider than what I'm mad at my FDH for right now.
(A__ is only going to have to be up late tonight because of FDH's dumba55ery, not potentially going to have permanent damage to any of his limbs)

Also, SD should have told the trainer not to touch her leg. I know teenage girls are often afraid to be assertive with doctors/trainers/teachers/etc but she needs to take control of her own health!!!

Too bad your just a "step" because I am sure if you weren't you'd have the trainer called on the carpet, but you know...

I'm really sorry that this happened. I hope she wasn't injured further by the trainer. The trainer and his immediate supervisor and/or dept. head and school admin really ought to be notified of the trainer's lack of judgment. Hopefully BM will call the school to complain.

ceph,
Yeah. My DH wins the dumba$$ of the day award.

And little miss 6 foot tall, skinny bada$$ volleyball player needs to "grow a pair", so to speak! I am finding her an Assertiveness Training class this week! Since she clearly will have plenty of time since she won't be playing v-ball or dancing!

I fully agree. I wanna choke the livin' $hit out of both of them.

In her defense, she did say to the trainer, "the doctor said to leave my cast on until I see the surgeon Friday". He reassured her and told her that he works with the Ortho Surgeons (which he does),and that he needed "to evaluate it" and they really "needed to get that swelling down". Her toes looked like sausages at that point, I guess. After he got her cast off, he told her "wow, that's one of the worst sprains I've ever seen". Well, yeah dip$hit, it's TORN ligaments AND a fracture, not a frickin' sprain. He and my husband must be battling it out for the "Stupidest Man in the School" award!

gerina,

BM lives several states away. Dad however is right here, and SHOULD take care of it. Problem is, he is a teacher and coach in the school, so is in a bit of a predicament.

I, however don't work there, and don't give a rat's a$$ that I'm only a "step". I'll be talking with that cute little trainer, and I guarantee you, he won't be treating her injury any further...at least until the surgeon clears her for such. Which, by his tone of voice in his message today, leads me to believe will be quite a while. "Mrs. Nicksmom, this is Dr. AnkleSurgeon. I've reviewed SD's films and I need to see her first thing Monday morning. Please continue to ice and elevate her leg as much as possible and by all means, she is to not bear any weight, nor remove her temporary cast for any reason." He is in surgery the rest of the week, and the nurse said they like the swelling to have subsided when they see the patient, which usually takes a week. By the looks of her leg this morning, I can't imagine that the swelling will be gone, but hey....stranger things happen, I'm sure. She's seeing the regular orthopedic/sports medicine doctor Friday morning, an MRI likely over the weekend, then the ankle surgeon Monday.

In the meantime, I hope that ONE of them (SD or DH) can JUST SAY NO to the trainer. I'd hate to make a scene....

First, I am truly sorry about the entire situation.

I hope Dad has informed mom of the series of events, and yes, she should rip him another one.

At the risk of getting flamed, again, had Nicksmom and her DH not pressed for custody, this might not have happened.

On the other thread, others congradulated Nicksmom for her great job at being a SM. I guess the mantra here is that if mom has custody and kid has problems, blame mom, or maybe child, but if mom has custody for 15 years, and kid does great, it must be SM.

If I were her mother, I would be talking to a lawyer right now about filing suit against the trainer, especially if there is permanent damage.

This doesn't reflect well on the quality of the sports program at the high school (or the common sense of the father).

I was pleased to hear one of the elementary principals in our school system begin a speech to the parents by saying that the first priority of the school system, ahead of education, was keeping the children safe. Handling sports injuries responsibly certainly falls under the heading of keeping the children safe, and countermanding a doctor's orders should get that coach fired.

My first thought was lawsuit as well. Only problem: HER DAD WAS RIGHT THERE AND ALLOWED IT!!! If dad had not been there, it would have been an entirely different story.

My second thought: KKNY, are you trying to say kids don't break legs at mom's house? Too funny. But, then how else are you gonna start a little controversy? SM says it's dad's fault... nobody is blaming mom. So, don't know what you're implying there.

Nicksmom, I'd probably tell DH that maybe SD needs to stay home & take it easy the rest of the week. What was he thinking???

The broken leg likely falls under the category of sports injury (although Dad did allow her to move up to varsity), but the unwrapping was on Dads watch. As to whether his being their precludes a successful suit, if dad had no medical trainin, I leave it up to the attorneys as to whether teh school is at fault, but it doesnt seem like good parenting. Ima, you cant have it both way -- either Dad contributed to the problem or he didnt.

Ima, my point is dad appears to lack judgement -- of course this could be a one off, but it shouldnt be discounted. In custody discussions, I think one has to balance mom v. dad.

Even though it was probably no one's "fault" that the injury occurred in the first place, I think it is likely that her mother is thinking, "I should never have let her go."

One of the reasons the girl gave for transferring was the quality of the sports program, if I recall. Now she is out for the season, and possibly will never play varsity again - and it is in part the fault of the coaching staff. She wanted her father to cheer her on, and he has only himself (and the trainer) to blame if her sports/dance hopes have been permanently dashed.

"Ima, you cant have it both way -- either Dad contributed to the problem or he didnt."

Clearly he did. No question.

Oooooh, I wondered how long it would take for the mud-slinging to start! Too freakin' funny how predictable some posters are...and you know who you are! You guys are great comic relief...especially on the heels of a good gin & tonic and listening to this painful debate.

This was really just a rant, to make me feel better, to let me vent a bit, so my DH and kids didn't have to suffer so long with my longwinded biotching. It wasnt' to start a debate on if someone should be sued (OMG!), or who is at fault. I know the trainer acted in good faith, albeit "overstepping (funny, huh?)" his boundaries a bit, in my (non-orthopedic nurse) opinion. Common sense tells me to listen to the doctor.

Clearly, I would like to ring my DH's neck, but in the scope of life, I think the outcome of this will likely be ok. Am I pissed? Sure, I am. Maybe moreso, because I spent the hours in the ER with her, and the hours on the phone to get *the* ankle guy in the area to squeeze her into his overbooked schedule. But that's what moms (bio and step) do...they fix stuff. And moms who are nurses are even more notorious for being fixers.

For the record, she's broken other bones while in her mother's custody. I don't think the thought ever crossed my DH's mind that "I should never let her remain in her mom's custody" because she got hurt. She's a multi-sport athlete for God's sake, she's gonna get hurt. Nor did he ever think..."oooooh, lawsuit maybe?".

Clearly, my DH contributed to this problem, which is why I want to choke the living crap out of him. No argument. That was the ENTIRE reason for my post....just to biotch about my DH amongst a group of women who can likely relate!

"At the risk of getting flamed, again, had Nicksmom and her DH not pressed for custody, this might not have happened."

Oh, holy malarky,this has got to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. The girl WANTED to live there as did her brother, which is their right to do at that age. Does that tell you anything? It was an ACCIDENT. Could have happened anywhere.

"it must be SM" I guess she orchastrated the whole thing. If she had been in an accident and gotten killed while at her mom's would it have been her mom's fault because she was living there? Yep, let's all blame the SM because she did something wrong, not sure exactly what, but she did because she's the SM.

Nicksmom, I commend you for stepping up and being with her while she was treated and having sense enough to know what needed to be done even though it was sabatouged. But let's don't forget you're wrong BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY THE LOWLY SM. This makes my blood boil.

Yeah, makes my blood boil, too. But only slightly more than this God-forsaken Presidential Debate! I think I need another drink!!!!!

Oh Nicks, I think I would take SD's crutch and smack DH upside the head. Then take the other one and smack him from the other side!

As a dancer/soccer player who ended up on crutches after the first competition of her junior year, I feel SO BADLY for your SD. And I'm sure, being the people pleasure she is she felt she should respect the 'authority' of her trainer rather than stand up to him . . . especially if dad was beside her nodding in agreement. My first thought from this all was that we now know where SD gets her lack of assertiveness, huh? Funny - I think my SD gets the same, as well as a dislike of conflict, from her father. :-)
As i type this I have to wonder if this behavior is learned out of necessity rather than 'hereditary'? Hmmm - just a thought.

Good for you for doing all you could in this situation. Hugs to you and SD.

I am sorry this happened to your SD. Ouch for sure.
I just want to say "post for the day" goes to Sweeby.
"But yet another argument for assertiveness training for SD!"

some men just have no clue.

poor girl. now as i skimmed through other posts...She broke bones before? Why? I wonder now if she needs all these sports if it causes her to break her bones?

I personally hate school sports and wish schools were about education rather than this nonsense.

I wonder what mom is doing about all this. she must be very upset and angry about the whole situation.

I fear a lot of teens would have been unable to stand up to the trainer, especially when their parent was not. Children have been trained to "do what the teacher says" since kindergarten. I am horrified that the trainer took off the cast after having been told the doctor said not to, and equally horrified that the father didn't stop him.

jnm,

I don't understand - from what necessity did the father learned his lack of assertiveness?

(more sarcasm)

Well it looks like the point of your other post is moot at... seems SD can join mom at the wedding and seems she will have a lot of free time in the next few months with out practices and games.

this story makes me even more unhappy about school sports. i believe that school sports cost unreasonable amounts of money that could be put towards purchasing new books. I believe that school sports take energy away from what is really important. and I hope that trainer will be fired. and as we can see coaches do not care about children but care about prestige.

i also wonder what mom says about all that. unfortunatelly it seems that many men are not equiped to be taking care of the children the way women could. not too many women would allow their children to spend a day on cruches in such condition or allow tariners to diagnose kids!

I can guarantee that mom is furious unless she is not told the whole story.

YEAH sure FD because no man is as capable of loving a child like a woman ... how barbaric!

"not too many women would allow their children to spend a day on cruches in such condition or allow tariners to diagnose kids!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... My SD's BM let SD run around outside BAREFOOT two days after she had foot surgery on the bottom of her foot. No bandages, didn't clean it afterward either. This resulted in SD having to have a second surgery to remove the debris that got into the wound, because the wound closed up with debris inside. Then BM let her run around barefoot outside AGAIN after the second surgery without bandages... again, her wound is dirty & healing with dirt inside.

Last night, SD called BM and must have told her that her foot still hurts because she came and told DH that mom says he needs to take SD back to the foot doctor before her next visit on Tuesday because it hurts. But I can see how "many men are not equiped to be taking care of the children the way women could."

Gosh, you make me laugh!!!!

"If I were her mother, I would be talking to a lawyer right now about filing suit against the trainer."

so would I, & Dad needs to cooperate.

Trainer reassured Dad & daughter that he's capable, so Dad...believed him.

So daughter was faced with *2* grown men, 1 an "expert" & authority figure, & 1 her Dad, perhaps the ultimate authority figure.

(nicksmom, you gotta stop talking about strangling / neck-wringing.
If your hubs turns up strangled, they're gonna put you in jail.
As a nurse, you oughtta know some untraceable poison...)

pseudo, men love kids just the same as women, but judging by what forum participants describe men often do not take as good care of ther kids as women do. OP's DH certainly loves his daughter, just does not take the same care of her when she is sick. Maybe her mom is also careless, that's i do not know. OP didn't talk about mom, only dad.

My X once fed DD the whole grapefruit just because she loves them! then he was surpised that she got rash all over.

iamommy there definitelly are women who don't provide proper care to their children. I cannot speak for everybody. I do not know too many, if any.

Slightly OT, but I think far too much time and money is wasted on school sports. The New York Times did a great article on how little money is actually available for college sports scholarships -- and high school parents arent realistic. Yes, teams are fun, but we dont need 5 day a week pracitces, etc. What we need is more leadership from our schools to band togethor and limit practices etc, which will limit cost of coaches, and allow kids time to work if they want to.

TOS~
I can say both from my own experience and from what I've been told by DH and SD that his ex is not much of a, shall we say, compromiser. Being 'assertive' is pretty much a guaranteed confrontation. Confrontations with mom don't usually go well because, and I say this not as a barb but as fact, she does not always deal in the same reality as you and I. Logic or common sense are not things that prevail much.

DH told me early on he basically gave up on being 'assertive' because it only created an ongoing fight that would not end until he gave in. For sometime this frustrated me - I urged him to stand up to his ex, (this is pre full custody) speak his mind and air his concerns. After several years, gaining custody, and many, many dealings with mom myself that I understood. There really is no 'winning' with her, because even if logics prevails there is always a price.

So, long story short, I think sometimes people become worn down and throw in the towel. Thus, a lack of 'assertiveness' becomes almost a survival skill.

I think that school and trainer will be partially responsible if she has permanent damage. You may just be the Step, but you took her to the ER, then didn't report the trainer because you were only the step. Then you should have taken her to the ER after seeing the damage the trainer did. If the father had taken her to the ER in the first place, he may have realized how serious her injury was. I can't imagine either one of my husbands, not wanting to be at the ER with their child.

I would also contact school's principal and ask what is going on in that school? i still wonder what are mom's actions on this. SD has one or two more years in that school? Ouch.

I think somebody needs to talk to an attorney, "permanent damage" or not.

The trainer deliberately violated this girl's doctor's orders & caused her pain & made her recovery time longer.

"too much time and money is wasted on school sports"

The state I live in must be the high school football capitol of the world, & I've had the same thought, off & on, for more than 40 years.

Did someone actually tell the trainer:

"The ER doctor said absolutely DO NOT remove this cast until she sees the surgeon Friday."

Because if either Dad or SD said that explicitly, then the trainer's actions probably exceed the 'poor judgement' threshhold. If neither of them said that and there doesn't appear to be additional lasting damage from the 'unwrap and ice bath', then give the poor guy (and the school) a break. Most sports trainers (at least in our state) have a fair amount of medical training, and in order to have a successful lawsuit, there actually needs to be damages. I haven't heard that there were.

As far as too much emphasis on very competitive sports, I agree totally. But that said, I'd like to see a larger number of children participating in more just-for-fun level sports. Physical exercise, movement, and healthy bodies are so important to the development of the human brain and to learning in general. It's a shame to cut out recess and P.E. class to stuff in more academic stuff when, with a little bit more movement, the children's brains could better retain the material!

Again sweeny, the voice of reason. I'm starting to wonder if you're a therapist. If not, you might want to consider that for your next career!

For all the highly litigious folks here, I think you're jumping the gun a bit here. Her injury happened Monday. The trainer incident Tuesday. She sees ortho guy tomorrow. We don't know that the trainer caused her more damage or a longer recovery time. And certainly didn't cause her any more pain...she actually said it felt better after the ice (duh-it was numb!). I think it's a bad injury that is going to have a long recovery, and I don't think she'll play anymore v-ball this season, being that it's done in about 5 or 6 weeks. I hope she'll be able to return to dance this year. I do still think he "treated" her a bit beyond his scope of practice, being that it was such a fresh injury. But I can also understand his reasoning, since he witnessed the injury and was the one who initially evaluated, wrapped, iced & crutched her at the time it happened.

I know that SD said, "I don't think I'm supposed to take this off" and DH said "My wife said not to take the cast off...she's a nurse". But he's an experienced trainer, and I think my DH trusted his area of expertise. Certainly SD did. I don't think he acted maliciously. Do I wish he'd have left it alone? Sure I do. Do I wish one of them would've spoken up? Yep.

We'll see what the ortho guy tomorrow says, and she sees the ankle surgeon Monday. Hopefully, we'll get some good news.

For all the other "stuff" here...
Well, she's sprained everything, broken fingers, toes and collar bones. Did my husband jump on the "bad mom" bandwagon? No. Did he want to sue someone? No.

I don't have a problem with competetive sports. My husband was/is an athlete and coach. Our older boys both played hockey and ran track. She's an athletic kid. Whadaya do with that? I never played sports.

As for mom's response...
Of course she's disappointed. But she knows that it happens, since it did many times on her "watch". She's glad she's seeing the best sports med/ortho guy and the only fellowship-trained ankle surgeon in the area. She's glad that her daughter is being well-cared for. Of course, we'd all rather it hadn't happened....

Does the mother know what the trainer did?

Which did the girl say,

"In her defense, she did say to the trainer, "the doctor said to leave my cast on until I see the surgeon Friday".
or
"I don't think I'm supposed to take this off"

You said, "Husband was made aware of this, word for word," yet he said, ""My wife said not to take the cast off...she's a nurse?" Why?? - though I suppose you are wondering that yourself.

I actually disagree about the sports thing. I think it is great. I was an athlete in school and my boys currently play football with my girls starting soccer next year. I couldnt imagine my life without sports in school. I think it is important for kids (like my ss) who dont normally do well in school or school is just not their thing to have something that they can excel in and/or be proud of. I do think that sports should not be placed above school and I think strict adherence to grade standards are important and I am highly irritated with parents and/or school officials who push kids way past the point of enjoyment and couldnt care less about the students school work. But, like I said for some kids I think sports are vitally important.

Yeah, Mom knows. She's a little less upset about it than I, but maybe because she's a little geographically removed. Also, she's not a medical person at all (like my DH), and I can see where she, too would trust the actions of an experienced trainer. I think she probably thinks I'm over-reacting.

As for what SD said, I wasn't there, so I didn't hear it word for word, nor did I hear her tone of voice. But she told him it wasn't supposed to come off.

And YES!!! I am wondering why my DH said "my wife" instead of "the doctor". That is the ENTIRE premise of my rant here!!!!!

nicksmom

Smack DH and take a deep breath and forget what some people post on here THEY ARE BITTER...

My daughter was a competitive cheerleader for 6 years. She was tiny so she was the one thrown in the air, my ex- (we were married at the time) did not like her being a flyer but she loved it. She was injured at the end of her junior year (she was tossed in the air she did her flips and they didnt catch her) she got up and finished the routine, after her last back tuck she fell to the ground in pain. We went to see if she was ok and the trainer and coach said she was fine just a lil sore. My daughter said (Im ok mom dont worry) so ex left he had only gone to a hand full of competitions all this time. It was a local competition (thank god) well my daughter wanted to stay for awards she was mad at herself because she fell(go figure) I noticed my daughter walking funny and I said are you sure your ok, she started crying and said no mom it really hurts. So I called the ex (who had just left by the way to come back and well he didnt). I sat my daughter down ran 3 blocks to get my car and hauled AS$ to the ER. They took her right in she was in her uniform with all of her funky make up (she was a tropper) but I could tell she was scared. I said please tell me if something hurts real bad, well she said mom I cant feel my right leg, I started to cry I was scared. We spent 5 days in the hospital (ex came to see her maybe 3 times) I stayed the whole time, except the night they admitted her while she was in the MRI I went home and got clothes and some stuff for her. She was in a wheel chair for about a week and then a walker and then a cane and then GUESS what she made VARSITY CAPTAIN OF THE CHEER TEAM HER SENIOR YEAR. Couldnt keep her away from it. Her injuries were multiple hurniated disks, muscle strains bruising the list goes on. She was a trooper. Now she wants to join a dance team in college.

I guess my point is kids need sports and activities and if they love them YOU cant keep them from it. My ex blamed me for letting her compete, yet he paid all the fees. I think that some people run to sue to quick.

Didn't Dr. Spock once say that if a child never breaks a bone, the parent is being over-protective? At least that's what my mom told me growing up. My tally: Two broken collar bones, broken leg, badly sprained knee, a couple of mild wrist and ankle sprains, broken thumb, broken big toe. And zero lawsuits.

could it be that mom is more upset than you because she is the mom? kinda a funny statement that mom is more upset than you because she is geographically removed.

Oh i don't know about overly protective...I never broke anything. i never played anything comptetive. i am an artist. cannot particularly break much by painting, I have damaged herves in my hand due to excessive drawing. But nothing broken. It does not mean my parents were overly protective, they were not. DD broke nothing either. She did competetive equstarian sports for years but managed to never fell of the horse. She rides her bike 40 minutes one way. So it is 80 minutes of fast bike riding a day, about 5 days a week. She also walks to college pretty long way. But she never fell off her bike. Knock on wood.

as about sports. i am supportive of sports and physical activities and exercise myself fairly reguarly, I am against excessive involvement in high school sports.

Er, finedreams, reading for comprehension:
"Yeah, Mom knows. She's a little _less_ upset about it than I," (my emphasis added).
BM is LESS upset than nicksmom.

cat38 & sweeby~
Yeah. We are all aware of the risks associated with sports. But our kids have mucho athletic prowess, so we allow them to play. As mentioned, both boys (older) played hockey and ran track. One of them broke a collarbone in hockey. The other also was into downhill skiing, but not on a team...just for fun. He broke his arm 3 times over the course of 13 years, and it wasn't even competetive. SD is actually at least as athletic as her brothers, maybe moreso, given the nature of dance. Youngest swims and dances, so no major injuries from sports yet, but she has had stitches....twice! And I suspect she'll have her own set of injuries over the years. It's part of growing up active, I guess. Sure, I'll be thrilled (and surprised!) if none of them ever get injured doing "stuff", but I don't expect that.

Mom's been kept in the loop from the get-go. She not furious...she's not even a little mad. I think she knows that it's just part of the game/sport.

FD,
I'm glad your daughter has been so fortunate to not have any injuries. And I'll bet if you wait long enough, someone on here will suggest that you sue the pencil or paintbrush maker for your nerve damage. Or better yet, your former art teachers for not teaching you proper technique for positioning yourself to prevent injury while painting. (sarcasm intended)

Now for the good news:
SD saw ortho/sports med guy today. He thinks she will heal well with proper rest and immobilization, and without needing surgery. He agreed that the cast shouldn't have been removed by the trainer, but said that no harm was caused. He (the doctor) removed her cast today and put her in an ankle immobilizer that she can adjust as she heals...and take off for showers. No v-ball or dance for at least another month (so, v-ball is done), and crutches for now. He's going to see her again in a couple weeks. She's still going to see the ankle guy Monday.

So, hopefully, she's on the mend...

And she's going to help with the musical tomorrow, as planned. She'll be taking tickets at the door, sitting in a tall chair....

Nicks -
Glad to hear your SD will be alright and that she still gets to participate in the musical. Someone has to collect the tix.

Oh good - I'm so happy to hear the light at the end of the tunnel is bright. Make sure she keeps up with stretching though so when she can dance again she'll be ready.

nicks-

Im glad your sd is doing better, I was talking to my oldest daughter this morning at my other daughters soccer game and she said she wanted to cheer and she would have been very mad at me if i would have stopped her. She also said sports builds character and even though she was injured she wouldnt change anything (except her injury if she could) LOL

Good Luck

Great news! So good to hear that the Dr. expects a full recovery and that no further damage was done.

That's good news that she's going to be okay.

Still, I would DEFINITELY have a little talk with the school principal regarding the trainer usurping doctor's orders. That would NOT sit well with me. There are a whole lot of "what ifs" that didn't happen but could have in that situation. I don't like it--not a bit. No trainer should remove any splint applied in a physician's office or ER, and taping is an iffy thing when someone has any injury with swelling.

I'm glad things worked out well.

I agree, Vivian~

The Athletic Director at the school is aware. Also, the ortho surg. she saw yesterday knows the trainer pretty well, and said he'll be talking with him about it, which I think will be an even bigger lesson learned. The trainer is young...some experience, but young. He is finishing his Master's now, and this is his 2nd or 3rd year at our school. He is, however, being mentored by a VERY experienced trainer, who was present the entire time. Again, I'm glad it looks like no damage was done, but waaaay too many "what-ifs".

On a lighter note, opening night of the musical was tonight and it was FABULOUS!