A psychiatrist (a *physician* who specializes in behavior & personality problems that result from disorders of the brain) is the only person who can diagnose bi-polar disorder or any other "mental illness" or brain-malfunction-based personality or behavior problem.

I don't think a social worker shouldn't be bandying those terms, or the term "pathological liar" (which means...what?), around, especially to the "subject's" ex & the ex's new spouse, & especially if the social worker hasn't conferred with mom's psychiatrist.

Bi-polar disorder used to be called manic depression, & it's characterized by extremes of mood & behavior.

In the "down" phase, the sufferer may be so depressed as to be suicidal, while in the "high" euphoric phase he/she may feel exultant & "10-feet-tall-&-bulletproof".

In between, he/she will experience rising euphoria & then deepening depression just as riders on a roller coaster "climb" up & streak down.

There's an *excellent* book called "Manic", written by a woman who has bi-polar disorder to an extreme degree;
I'd recommend it to anyone, whether you know anyone with this disorder or not.

It's autobiographical, it's brilliantly descriptive, & it'll give you devastingly clear insight & make you empathize & sympathize, & it may make you say a little prayer of thanksgiving that you don't have to ride that roller coaster.

Bi-polar disorder often can be controlled, beautifully, with lithium.

I don't think "anti-social", like "pathological liar", is even a diagnosis in this day & age.

The person could be narcissistic, psychopathic, anything.

Anti-social & pathological are loaded terms coming from a person in a position of trust;
don't know if I'd want to return to this particular person.

If she's saying these things to you about the mother, what is she saying to the mother about you?
or to the kids?
or to your husband?
or to the court?
Depression:

Medication is often prescribed for depression, although new research indicates that-

1. Depression is a symptom, not a disorder in itself. Just as a physician wouldn't diagnose "chest pain" & treat you for it (you'd have a heart attack & die!), he/she should research the reason for the depression before putting someone on Prozac.

2. Medication may appear to help when it's just masking the symptoms.

In a study on depression, people who were given anti-depressants got better faster than people who were put on a regimen of brain-healthy foods & supplements & regular aerobic exercise (get some oxygenated blood to those synapses!), but the diet & exercise group caught up & *surpassed* the drug group within, if I remember correctly, 6 months.

Depression is often triggered by stress, abuse, learned helplessness, etc.

Anti-depressants may alleviate the pain, but the problem isn't solved until the person puts an end to the stress, escapes the abuse, learns to defend herself, etc.

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Just my opinion:
Just as women in the fifties & sixties were overdosed on tranquilizers & women in the seventies were overdosed on Valium, I think women in the millenium are being overdosed on anti-depressants.

It's a quick fix for the doctor, & it shuts the women up.

Pathological Liar

A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder. A pathological liar is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Pathological liars have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. A pathological liar often comes across as being manipulative, cunning and self-centered.

Compulsive Liar

A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit. Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions. Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small. For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right. Compulsive lying is usually thought to develop in early childhood, due to being placed in an environment where lying was necessary. For the most part, compulsive liars are not overly manipulative and cunning (see, Pathological Liar), rather they simply lie out of habit - an automatic response which is hard to break and one that takes its toll on a relationship

Antisocial personality disorder (APD) is a mental disorder. It is defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual: "The essential feature for the diagnosis is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."[1] Deceit and manipulation are considered essential features of the disorder. Therefore, it is essential in making the diagnosis to collect material from sources other than the individual being diagnosed. Also, the individual must be age 18 or older as well as have a documented history of a conduct disorder before the age of 15.[1] People having antisocial personality disorder are sometimes referred to as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths".[2]

Bipolar disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a category of mood disorders defined by the presence of one or more episodes of abnormally elevated mood clinically referred to as mania or, if milder, hypomania. Individuals who experience manic episodes also commonly experience depressive episodes or symptoms, or mixed episodes in which features of both mania and depression are present at the same time. These episodes are usually separated by periods of "normal" mood, but in some individuals, depression and mania may rapidly alternate, known as rapid cycling. Extreme manic episodes can sometimes lead to psychotic symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations. The disorder has been subdivided into bipolar I, bipolar II, cyclothymia and other types, based on the nature and severity of mood episodes experienced; the range is often described as the bipolar spectrum.

Data from the United States on lifetime prevalence vary but indicate a rate of around 1 percent for Bipolar I, 0.5 to 1 percent for Bipolar II or cyclothymia, and between 2 and 5 percent for subthreshold cases meeting some but not all criteria. The onset of full symptoms generally occurs in late adolescence or young adulthood. Diagnosis is based on the person's self-reported experiences, as well as observed behavior. Episodes of abnormality are associated with distress and disruption, and an elevated risk of suicide, especially during depressive episodes. In some cases it can be a devastating long-lasting disorder. In some cases, however, it has been associated with creativity, goal striving and positive achievements.

Many factors contribute to the development of bipolar disorder, including genetics, life experiences and neural and psychological processes. Bipolar disorder is often treated with anti-manic, and sometimes other, psychiatric drugs. Psychotherapy may have an important role, as well as personal recovery work. Depending on the jurisdiction, in serious cases in which there is a risk of harm to oneself or others involuntary commitment may be used; these cases generally involve severe manic episodes with dangerous behaviour or depressive episodes with suicidal ideation. There are widespread problems with social stigma, stereotypes and prejudice against individuals with a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.

Also called manic depression or bipolar affective disorder, the current term is of fairly recent origin and refers to the cycling between high and low episodes (poles). A relationship between mania and melancholia had long been observed, although the basis of the current conceptualisation can be traced back to French psychiatrists in the 1850s. The term "manic-depressive illness" or psychosis was coined by German psychiatrist Emil Kraepelin in the late nineteenth century, originally referring to all kinds of mood disorder. German psychiatrist Karl Leonhard split the classification again in 1957, employing the terms unipolar disorder (Major depressive disorder) and bipolar disorder.

I don't think Mom is either anti-social or bi-polar. They haven't even met mom yet but we were telling them the things we have concerns with with mom .... and explaining why we think the boys needs services... I could guess they were looking for an easy fix to all this but there will not be an easy fix.

There are no highs and lows she is evenly keeled are on her path to get what she wants.

The DSS worker I called her because mom let the kids read the summons to court with mom for identity fraud. The worker said I will call her about it but all I can do is say they shouldn't be reading it and she will tell me something along the lines of she didn't let them read it they found it. At that point she said she seems like a pathological liar ... lies about whatever it is just to cover her self so she is the victim not the perpetrator.

Pathological liar I tend to believe. But like you said Sylvia what is she saying about us ... has me worried too.

DSS had till friday to "have services in place" they haven't done anything I have done most of the legwork. So again we are in limbo... if she had something diagnosed maybe I could reason with my own mind why any woman would do this to her children. You "She can't help it" ... blah blah blah.

Hubby and I talking about it ... said narcissism or some form of munchausen. I guess we are looking for something tangible to say its not us we are not crazy she "has" ______so she is compelled to do this to her children. Would help us understand why she does it in the first place.

Because DSS hasn't put the services in place ... mom will not be compelled to attend "family therapy" ... so at this point we are back where we started from.

Guessing the light at the end of the tunnel is a train :(

I had to do research about bipolar disorder a few years ago for a work thing. If the mother really did start taking medications for depression in the last year, she probably hasn't been diagnosed as bipolar. From what I understand, antidepressants can actually exacerbate the manic stage in bipolar disorder. I think that mood stabilizers or antipsychotics are generally prescribed for bipolar-- not antidepressants.

If you really want definitive information about mental disorders, the main reference they had me use at work was called the DSM-IV. Your could see if your library has a copy.