No I don't believe in "Karma". It comes from Hindu and Buddhist religious beliefs. Having to do with the "universe" being in control of your destiny or fate based on your good thoughts or actions. I don't believe that the "universe" controls anything.

I think we like to see it as karmic retribution when someone who has treated others badly "gets theirs", but I don't think it often happens that way.

A lot of really mean people die at advanced ages, passing away peacefully in bed, with their children & grandchildren by their bedside, sobbing quietly.

remember The Godfather?

Even though it's fiction, it illustrates what I'm talking about.

At the end, an aged Marlon Brando (can't remember the character's name) is in the garden with his grandson.

The sun is shining, the bees are buzzing, everything is green & lush, &...

he dies.

After a lifetime of dealing terror & pain & misery to other people, that's how he "went".

& so many good, kind, compassionate, caring people, people who enrich the lives of others, have horrible disabling accidents, or they get Alzheimer's, or something.

Remember Christopher Reeve?

I don't believe in Karma because it seems to me that things work OPPOSITE of how Karma is supposed to work. Really good people have the worst luck and always seem to struggle while cruddy people seem to always have everything work out for them and sail through life relatively unscathed.

Amanda has NEVER been arrested through all the stunts she has pulled. She falls through the cracks every time. If Karma really existed she would be sitting in jail somewhere instead of getting high in a hotel room. I am BITTER at karma...hahahahahaha.

Plus also all of what Believer said. Certain relegions can't believe in Karma because it goes against our beliefs. I don't suppose I could pray to god that she gets busted? Would he frown on that do you think? It would be for her own good of course:)

The biblical equivilent of Karma would be the principle that you reap what you sow. Universal principles, such as that, are common to all religions in some form. You can believe in the principle behind karma, without ascribing to karma itself.

doodle, no no no, you cannot pray for something bad to happen to someone & try to tell God, or yourself, that it's for her own good!

Listen to your Aunt Sylvia here:

that kind of behavior will turn you into a bitter spiteful woman with pruney wrinkles around your mouth!

If by Karma you mean the concept that people get what they deserve, no. When I was in college, I worked in a pediatric ICU for few years. How can you watch a two-year old dying from leukemia and believe in karma? It's comforting to believe that bad people will someday, somehow pay for it, or to believe that people who have horrible things happen to them must have done something to deserve it, but it's just not reality.

As an agnostic person more inclined to look at in terms of everyday phenomena of cause and effect, I believe in 'karma', 'you reap what you sow' and the like not necessarily because it HAS to occur, but because it TENDS to. If you do bad stuff, the odds are that sooner or later you are going to piss somebody off. And *that person* will have no problem doing something bad to you.... or maybe just not bothering to warn you if you are about to step into a manhole (literal or proverbial). So I feel like it is *that person* who is meting out your just desserts for your wrongdoings, not necessarily God or Karma or anything supernatural. And then there is when people end up screwing *themselves* over because they get cocky with their bulls**t. The main reason I'd be dis-inclined to believe in a supernatural force presiding over it is the simple fact that many people get away with their misdeeds seemingly without it bothering them in the least or causing them to lose a minute's sleep. But I still think most people's wrongs sooner or later come back to bite them in the butt.

Does "what goes around, comes around" count?

I believe in treating those the way I want to be treated. I believe in 'paying it forward'. I am a giver and can sometimes be overly generous. I don't have an expectation that the favor be returned, but I do believe that kindness begets kindness and giving begets giving. I also believe selfishness begets selfishness and so on.

I used to feel like Doodle, when I went through years of hardship & heartache... sharing my son with the man that assaulted me. Paying him support for those years was a slap in the face and I felt there was no such thing as karma or whatever it may be called when they get what's coming to them. But, it took me many more years to realize, he is getting what he deserves. No, he has never answered or paid for what he did to me. However, his life is pitiful. His wife got tired of being his punching bag & left him, taking their son. He has been arrested for other crimes & been in and out of prison for the last five years or more. He is 50 years old and has never worked 'on the books' so he will not get social security and has absolutely nothing... no retirement, no bank account, no money, no personal belongings of any value. The last time he was out of prison, his own mom refused to let him move in with her because it would subject her house to search & seizures while he was still on parole. He ended up staying with some girl he didn't really like, at least that's what he told my son (she was much younger & living with her parents) and he soon got violated and back off to prison he goes. I can only imagine what the rest of his life is going to be... no work history, felony conviction, parole officer, and he's just a little too old to be starting over... it took me a long time to let go. My worse day is a bed of roses compared to his best day!!!

As to SD's BM, she is also on the path to her own destruction. I believe it will be years before she is completely trapped in her own living hell. She won't see it until she's so stuck, she can't get out. (that's if she EVER sees it) Of course, there's always the chance she'll turn it around and start doing the right thing. She's 36 and has never worked. She isn't into drugs or been arrested for anything, but she is getting past the age where she can have a baby to trap a man and her looks are fading fast (she's a heavy smoker & heavy drinker & loves to lay in the sun, working on the tan that makes her skin look leathery/old) All she knows, is depending on someone else to take care of her... whether it's her mom or men. That can't last forever and I wonder what she'll do when she HAS to get a job and take care of herself? (besides what she's doing to her relationship with her daughters)

I believe in everything you do today, every decision you make, even little ones, determines what path you wind up on and what becomes of your life.

doodle

You most certainly can pray that this woman gets a wake up call pertaining to her drug use and the kind of mother she is. God will decide what that will be. I would ask that her hardened heart be ready to change and that she would be able to see clearly enough to know that she must change her life. Maybe that would take getting busted, over dosing or whatever.(please don't think that I want her to od people) Whatever it takes to get her to change. The bases of your prayer is for her to get clean and be a good mother. That is a good thing to want for her. However she would get there wouldn't be your choice.

I still pray for my ex and his alcohol addiction.

I'm with Ima on "what goes around, comes around" but don't believe in "karma"...

"WGA,CA" to me:
If you're nice to people, they'll be nice to you. If you're rotten, then that will catch up with you sooner or later.

"Karma" to me:
The universe has a series of cheques and balances that people play unwilling roles in filling.

sure I agree with the basic principle that actions have consequences and if you treat people badly you are more likely to be treated not so well in return. And if you drive like a maniac and don't wear a seat belt, you are more likely to be killed in a car accident. I don't think that's what people mean by karma, though. Is it?

My husband was married to his ex for 18 years! They adopted a wonderful little boy together but when their boy turned 2, she decided to leave my husband for the guy (who they both knew) she had been fooling around with. She took their son and left to the other side of the country to be with him.

My husband tried to get back with her, for the son's sake, but she was in love with the other man. They divorced. Well, it turns out the other man had a wife and 2 kids. And after promising her he would leave them to be with her, he never did. 5 years later, my husband meets me, marries me and is the happiest he has ever been in his entire life. We have a gorgeous home together and are making plans to have our own children. She is still alone, bitter, and wants to see my husband as miserable as she is. My man has truly moved on with his life and does good by his son. She is always angry and sad. Karma????

The reason why I asked this question is because my friends keep telling me not to worry DH's ex will get whats coming to her,for all of her lies and bull crap she has put me through. Im not sure I believe in KARMA but I sure do hope WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. She is making me want to be bitter, Im trying really hard not to but she has just been a horrible liar...

I keep believing that holding grudges would make me no better than her, but damn its hard.... LOL

Well, I don't know if this is karma, but...

Both of my stepkids wanted to come live with Dad & me (& sibs) when they were old enough to really voice their opinion. Mom really thought she had them "sold" on the bigger house, fancy cars, etc that they (mom & stepdad) got when she moved them away from their dad.

Turns out, none of that really matters to them. They knew which parent always put them first. And that's where they CHOSE to be.

Karma?

I'm with you cat, I too hope that my SC's BM's actions come back around to bite her in the a** someday. I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around. So I try to live each day knowing that my actions too could come back to haunt me!

I do not believe in karma, but I do believe that people need to take responsibility for their actions. Not because they get rewarded, but just because that's what we are supposed to be doing. I believe that G_d gave us ability to make choices and now it is up to us what choices we make. i do not believe that G_d interfers in our daily lives in any way. If i would believe so, I would not be able to make any sense out of 2-year-olds dying of cancer or genocides etc. I believe that life is unfair, but even then we can still make our choices. as a reform jew i do not have a prticular belief about after life, i have no opinion on that, it has no value for me, but I believe I need to make good choices and follow certain rules. Why? I do not know. I guess i was raised this way.

No i do not believe that good deeds get rewarded and evil gets punished. But it doesnot make any difference to me. We still have to be good, no matter if we get rewarded.

I find your words lacking compassion. The whole situation wiht your SKs is sad, i don't know why would you think that BM got what she deserved. Kids are victims of divorce in this situation, there are no winners here. Both parents and kids lost because of the divorce. Both parents and kids need compassion in this situation. Unfortuantelly kids have to live wiht one parent, can't live with both. i don't consider other parent to be punished because of that. I find it sad that you would have such thoughts about the whole situation...

You may find my words lacking compassion, but I don't lack compassion. You are right that it's sad for the kids.

However, the fact of the matter is that one of Mom's motivation for the move, was just to screw over Dad. I was there when she said "I'm moving to NC and I'm taking the kids, and there's nothing you can do about it", followed by a nice smirk. Sure, her fiance had a job offer, but for her to put that ahead of her kid's best interest, I feel, is unthinkable. It has put the kids in a horrible situation for a long time.

I can tell you without any doubt, that my husband felt "punished" and that he lost out immensely when he was only seeing his kids every month or two. So, while you may not consider "the other parent to be punished", I can assure you, that is NOT reality. The parent with whom the children are not living feels punished.

FD makes a realy good point about how a person should do good whether or not there is a reward (or, conversely, a penalty for doing bad). And again, I say this as a very secular, agnostic person who continually questions asolute rules including the idea of any externally-defined, objective moral code. Not that I feel like others don't have a right to determine their morals based on external standards (often, this is a more preferable scenario to if they follwed no moral code at all!) but just that for me, morality has to ultimately be *internalized*. Which means that the main reward any of us can reliably expect to receive for doing good is the *internal* feeling of inner peace, knowing we have done the right thing. And this is really no small thing because the opposite, the self-torture of being forever plagued by guilt, self-doubt and the awareness that you 'earned' others' misdeeds towards you based on your own misdeeds to them, is excruciating. Freedom from those painful self-recriminations is a precious, beautiful, empowering thing that is solid as a rock and which no one else can deny or take away from you. Whether or not there is any reward/penalty system that will give further results to this inner peace is a matter of societally-determined law and individually-determined belief in a given religion (or non-religion). But the one thing that does seem constant is that there will at least be the reward of inner harmony for people who choose to do the right thing.

I also think that guilt and shame over past misdeeds has a way of infecting and eating at people who do bad things, even if on the surface they SEEM not to have any conscience about it. As I wrote earlier, I think it's also usually true that OTHERS give these folks some sort of comeuppance, but I also think that sooner or later, one way or antoher, they punish themselves most of all. And it can come out in strange and unexpected ways. A financial crook who seems to have no conscience about robbing people of their life savings and no problem apparently thinking he *deserves* to spend their money may become impotent because he deep down knows he is heartless and so deep down doesn't feel he deserves intimacy of any kind. A homewrecking jezebel may SEEM to have no problem thinking s/he deserves to 'steal' someone else's mate, but because they know they had to use some amount of duplicity and deception to do this, they may deep-down feel that they don't really 'deserve' their new, stole mate and will be forever insecure about it, which may come out as extreme jealousy, or an eating disorder, among other things. When there is a lack of harmony between one's moral code and one's actions (which to some extent there ALWAYS is, in any of us) the degree of the disparity, I believe, tends to directly bear upon one's own sense of real happiness and fulfilment. Not that people who are unhappy for very valid *external* reasons like their family being suddenly killed or clinical depression have necessarily 'earned', 'created' or 'deserve' their unhappiness. I'm just saying that the deep-down self-recriminations and self-punishment of people who have done too much bad will ADD to whatever unhappiness might exist for other reasons.

I think karma is alive and well. And I don't think it has anything to do with doing something nice so something nice will happen to you. I think it's more the "what goes around comes around" or "do unto others" logic. Those who do things that are not ethical or morally just will find themselves "reaping" what they sow.

I don't think you can apply it to everything... a child becoming ill and dying does not necessarily have anything to do with karma. But someone who is stealing and knows it is wrong is walking around with bad energy inside, that may manifest into bad health. A thief running from the law and running out in traffic and getting hit? Could be karma. What about the person who hit the thief? Well, if he's on his lunch break and just got back from a rendezvous with his mistress... karma.

It doesn't mean that everything is karma, it just means that like attracts like. Live your life that the good is attracted to you rather than the bad.

Niksmom made a good point. The BM was acting in her own interest rather than the interest of the children. She thought she could buy their loyalty. When the children realized the truth behind her actions they chose love over possessions. This is karma. She got what she put out. Had she put out love, she would most likely have received love. Since she put out possessions, that is what she was left with.

SYlvia-

HAHAHAHAHA. I will be doing very good if I can continut to deal with this woman and NOT become bitter. I can still laugh about it for now so I guess that's a good sign:)

Beliver-

Believe it or not I have prayed for her to get the help she needs for the sake of the girls. It seems like she just isn't interested in getting clean at all and it's very frustrating. I REALLY do believe getting busted one good hard time might be the spring board she needs to get herself back on the right track. I doubt she'll do i on her accord. It will have to be court mandated.

It trully is frustarting to see a bad person walk the fence unscathed. If I drive five miles over the speed limit down a dirt road I get pulled and ticketed but she could get pulled on a major highway going 15 over holding some un-godly amount of cocaine in her purse and not even get ticketed! Not an over exageration here....she's actually done this. How does she slip through every time????

We cannot always knows what is the best for the kids. We can only do our best. When kids are grown, they will make their own choices. Sometimes it goes along with what we thought is the best for them and sometimes it is not. Sometimes decisions that we thought are the best, turn out to be either wrong or not necessarilly the best. If in few years your SD decide to go somewhere else or move back wiht mom, how would you feel if anyone would say well that's what they get for trying to take kids from their mother. Plenty of people move for better jobs and more money, if she was the one raising them as CP, it was not easy for her. Maybe more money sounded like a good decision at the time. I just don't see any point in rejoicing over the fact that kids live with you now. kids could decide to move wiht dad even if mom would live next door.

maybe rejoicing over other people's unhappiness (as i assume mom is unhappy now) is a bad karma. What comes around...

Correct, FD....we cannot always know what is best for kids. But one can safely assume, that they are better with easy access to both parents (assuming both are healthy!). Certainly, that's what both of my stepkids have said.

And for the recodrd, we didn't "try to take kids from their mother". Both kids, around the age of 13 or so, expressed their own wishes.

And yes, plenty of people move for all sorts of reasons. And maybe better jobs and more money are good reasons to some. But is more money a good enough reason to take children from a very involved parent? My DH would NEVER have moved the kids away from their mom, had he been given the chance. And they had 50/50 custody, she wasn't raising them as a single parent. And despite the fact that Dad saw them at least as much as mom, sometimes more...he paid child support. She made good money, and got CS, so it really was pretty easy for her.

Are we thrilled that we've gotten to (finally!) spend some more time with them? YES! Rejoicing that their mom is unhappy? No. We wish she'd never moved away to begin with. As a matter of fact, we live about 3 block away from her old house. Think of how easy the kids could've had it all these years. A two minute bike ride between their parents homes. Now that would have been grand.

I don't fear any bad karma. I feel that I've worked hard at being the best stepmom I can be. And I know my stepkids feel that way, too.

Ima says " All she knows, is depending on someone else to take care of her... whether it's her mom or men. That can't last forever and I wonder what she'll do when she HAS to get a job and take care of herself?"

After my DH's Ex left him & the teenage kids she moved where her mom lived (as well as her boyfriend) and moved in with her after the boyfriend didn't work out. After her mom died she had to vacate the house and at this point she was in her 60's with no job,no money and over $50K on her credit card, owned nothing but an old junk car. So she moved back here and expects the kids to take care of her. I would say karma didn't work in this case.

But then there's the case where my son had to live with his BD for a few years with me awarded liberal time with him. My Ex held on very tightly and wouldn't let him see me other than when he absolutely had to. No way would he work with me for the good of our son. Then when he came to live with me his BD was finished with him. Once my son was grown he wanted nothing to do with his BD. I think that could either be karma or WGA,CA. I think it's embarrasing to my Ex that his son won't acknowledge him. Guess he should have thought about that earlier.

I feel along the same lines as Fine - we should do the right thing because it's the right thing - not for a cosmic reward or to make sure others do well by us.

I would like to believe in WGA,CA . . . but I still see wickedly evil people living the 'good life.' I just choose to believe that inside they are miserable. :-)

gajopa, I pray that BM doesn't fall back on her kids to take care of her when she runs out of others to do so. Given the way she currently treats her kids, she may even be burning that bridge. But, my son's father has already tried, when my son was 19-20, to turn to my son to help him & give him a place to live because he has done absolutely NOTHING with his life, except drugs & prison. My son went off & joined the military at 21 to make his own life & his dad went back to prison. Perhaps he violates his parole on purpose so he has a place to live.... hmmm, just a thought.

Cat38,

I've been in your position. My husband's ex is extremely bitter. And is always sour! And i know it hard thing to do and say but dont let her get to you. If you allow her to make you bitter , she' won. My DH ex was like this in the first years of our marriage. Always making comments about us and me. At first it did really bother me, but after a while , after the years of 'the same ole thing' i honestly began to ignore it. And the more i ignored it the more it pist her off. You know why? Because people like her have nothing better to do because they are miserable and do not like seeing other people happy. Especially their ex and his new wife. Her character is such, she wanted to make my husband squirm and come back to her. Didn't happen. She wanted my husband jealous of her cause she had the house, and remarried (ie common law, which is not marriage to me, its just shacking it up.) Note: her husband doesnt' work and leaches off of her and swears at her kids. So..you guessed, my husband is not jealous, but worried about his kids.
And yes, i honest believe waht goes around comes around. She had a nice cushiony job the paid WAAYYY too much , working part time, she lost it. She wants her new shack in longterm boyfriend to get a job, he's not getting one, he doesn't want to. She got a new job for minimum wage, threatens to take my DH to court for more CS. Can't, she's remarried, the kids are older so no daycare involved, boyfriend owns property and aparently does have some income coming in, AND since we have kids together my lawyer said she'd had to prove hardship. And since her new job is next to her house and she doesn't have to drive anymore....well..figure out the math. She wont get anymore money for my DH. To top it off, she's a substance abuser, hides it very well and doesn't want to take the risk of exposing and losing her kids. now, i'm rambling...sorry....
So, cat38, she will get her dues, but you as a person have to refocus on what important for you as a person and your family and set her aside.
I dont know too much detail on your situation....as in how many SK or shared or fulled custody...or what bm does...but do you best to focus onyou andyoru family.

organic maria

Thank you

heres the long short version.. LOL

They have one son together he had just turned 4 when they seperated (due to her having an affair with a married man) He tried to work through it with her but she would not stop seeing the lover.. He left a month and half after he left she called him and told him that she was pregnant. (he says he knew it wasnt his) but she told him it could be... I met him about 6 months after they split up... I was recently divorced after 20 years at that point. We just fit so good together I am 6 years older but it was something that I had never felt before. Everything just seemed to be perfect. That is until the ex wife found out that we were dating. Then she started playing games with letting him see his son. He filed for divorce but had to wait on a DNA test, the baby wasnt his... I told him there is no order for visitation go get your son and spend time with him... She had to let him and well she got pissed off...

4 days before we got married she started calling the cops and DCF.. She called me and told me it will never work he loves her and they were meant to be together... BLAH BLAH BLAH... well were married a lil over a year and it has been a living hell, everyday something new.. SHE LIES SO MUCH SHE DOESN'T REMEMBER THE TRUTH...

They have 50/50 since the divorce was final..
DH pays for everything I mean everything, she is supposed to pay half of some stuff but she doesnt, she makes 3 times what DH does, he supported her through nursing school and she had several affairs while she was in school...

She thinks the world revolves around her....

I just keep asking myself - Is all of this really worth it. I love DH and my SS very much and my kids love DH to. I just don't get any sleep this women has done so much devious stuff to me oh did I mention she move 5 houses from me last December with her parents...

SORRY for rambling AGAIN :)

OH man,
Having her live 5 houses away!!....my dh's ex lives almost 2 hours away and i rarely have to see her...and i mean rarely. The phone calls are enough.
Tha'ts creepy...
Since its 50 50 then there is no CS..but this is also not his biological son. Knowing how she is and knowing that this is not his son, why did your dh stay in thsi situation. He could have up and left with you and your kids into another state. This way this crazy woman doesnt' follow you around.
He must really love this child to have to stay with this. And you must love him very much the both of them to stay in this.
EIther way, keep your chin up and stand your ground know matter how she cusses. In the end and int he long run the child will knwo who is really the butt head here.
Have you guys considered moving and buying a house elsewhere? For her to move in with her mother , seems like she is saving money and of course to be close to son but hey, she doesn't have to be that close. Sell it privately and move a distance away to an area that you know you have privacy but of course she'll still have access to her son. And the school has to be somewhat in the middle to make it easier on ss.

I definitely believe in Karma! I was going through a really bad divorce at the time and I didn't know much about it until approx. 10 years ago now when Oprah had Gary Zukav on one of her shows. It still gives me shivers thinking about it, that particular show changed my life! His book The Seat of the Soul is one of my favourite books of all time!

I've had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times when he's come to speaking events in my city. One day I hope to go to one of his workshops.

This is an excerpt from page 38-39. I long ago typed it up and put it on my wall.

"Every action, thought, and feeling is motivated by an intention, and that intention is a cause that exists as one with an effect. If we participate in the cause, it is not possible for us not to participate in the effect. In this most profound way, we are held responsible for our every action, thought and feeling, which is to say, for our every intention. We, ourselves, shall partake of the fruit of our every intention. It is, therefore, wise for us to become aware of the many intentions that inform our experience, to sort out which intentions produce which effects, and to choose our intentions according to the effects that we desire to produce."

I remember Oprah repeating that numerous times over the years on some of her shows.