Not to step on anyone's toes, rain on anyone's parade or anything like that, but in my opinion... it is a disservice to kids to categorize them as 'gifted'.

Don't get me wrong, there are kids that get things, excel and thrive in school... I know this. But, my sister's son ~"gifted" son~ was the family gem... she even mortgaged her house to send him to a University when she really couldn't afford to because she wanted him to have a 'better' education that he 'deserved' and blah blah blah. Well, he partied the first year away~ not sure he even made it through the second semester. Long story short, she ended up in bankruptcy and he moved back~ not home with her because he thinks very little of adult children living at home.. so he took a job as a waiter and got an apartment. He looks down on her because she hasn't 'done anything with her life' and hardly acknowledges the family... including her. It's truly sad and while I know not all 'gifted' kids are going to turn out like that, I wonder if he would have turned out with such a big head if she hadn't puffed it up for so many years.

Just a thought

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? Both
2. Do you have children of college age? yes
3. If so, who is paying for their college? 1/2 - 1/2 both sets of parents.
4. n/a
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) It's our kids -- I know we're responsible... it would be nice to also be included in decisions like what school to attend, and not just be handed a bill.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? Even if we won a huge lottery, I would still like more involvement with SSs. It's a delicate balance. I have a relative in my life who attaches enormous, "strings" to every "gift" she ever gives. If she can't control the shots, she won't give. That feels awful, too -- there must be some in-between area.

1. Both BM and SM
2. No but SS29 should have gone, has not completed, should still go to college. SD36 has finished with graduate degrees.
3. No one, SD36 paid her own way, SS29 is chronic drop out. DH has helped pay, BM has not but in fairness, she couldn't afford it at the time. Believe she would have if she could have.
4. DH agreed to pay SS's tuition after high school. After all of the years, SS is expected to foot his own bills now although both parents will help somewhat.
5. No, the situation is not the way I would like it. My parents put me through college so I feel that if a parent has means that should apply to them too. This includes my adult skids. Without help, SS29 will probably never go and I think DH and BM should help him financially in this area only. SD36 mostly paid her own way with help from DH, then paid for her graduate and law degrees with some off and on help from DH. Not the way I think it should be done at all.
6. If situation were better, definitely pick up all the educational tabs. Because the skids are adults and have been living their lives it's not so simple. DS7 has a 529 plan and I foresee paying for his education although we will stop making contributions when he leaves elementary school if all goes to plan. If he becomes a professional stutdent, meaning he's in college/grad school for more than 7 years, all bets are off.

@ Ima: Oh no, our school district identified DD as gifted and now she is doomed. And everyone else in the gifted program throughout the district is as well. Spare me! Sorry for your sister, but identifying a child as gifted is not equivalent to puffing up a child's head. DD comes from a long line of overachieving high IQ individuals so trust me, its nothing special. I was simply stating a fact. Don't be a hater.

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? ONLY SM

2. Do you have children of college age? NOT YET

3. If so, who is paying for their college? -

4. If not, who will be paying for their college? I SUSPECT WE WILL BE, BM NOT TOO INTERESTED AND PROBABLY CAN'T AFFORD IT ANYWAY. MAYBE BM'S DAD WILL CHIP IN, HE'S ALWAYS THROWN MONEY AT EVERYBODY SO GRANDKIDS MIGHT GET LUCKY..

5. Is the situation as you would like it to be? HAHAHA

6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? IF WE CAN'T AFFORD IT THEN THEY'LL HAVE TO GET A LOAN OR NOT GO TO COLLEGE I SUPPOSE?

Finedreams, had I completed college right out of high school, my parents would have paid for it. And, I probably would not have worked as hard, knowing myself. I started college prior to getting married and having children but didn't finish, and surprise surprise did not have the time to do so.

I was a SAHM working 60 hours a week in a home office. I made more money than my husband did and I had amazing perks, like 100% employer paid health insurance. And I did it with a baby on my hip and my husband griping that I spent too much time studying and not enough time with him. When I was nearly finished with school I cut down to part time work.

But how is that even slightly the same as having parents pay for an education? One would assume that my receipt of a higher education would increase the family worth, and that funds were co-mingled as a spouse rather than a situation with parents, where regardless of who is working the finances would not be my responsibility, no?

Yes, my husband did have to work harder, because I was spending more time (I did most of my school through correspondence because of our remote location) on homework. Yes, he was breadwinner for a portion of that. But I was breadwinner for much longer than him. And head cook, cleaning lady, car wash, bill payer, gardener, chauffeur etc. as are most women in relationships.

Your whole assumption just rankles me. We all make choices based on our experiences. In my personal experience, and from what I've observed, it's far better to encourage children to go after what they want rather than handing it to them. I would do things a certain way for my daughter and SD based on my personal knowledge of college that perhaps you would disagree with based on your personal experience. That's fine.

I started this thread because I don't believe that SM's think their skids should be on their own for college. And if they do, it's because they think ALL children (bio or not) should find their own way. I'm a bit in the middle. I will help out, but the onus is on the student to seek out their education. IMO, it will be worth a lot more in the long run.

I think FD was saying IF you were .... and btw working at home for $$ is not same as SAHM.

I think in intact families, parents make joint decision as to one party staying home, and consider how that will affect college.

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? Both
2. Do you have children of college age? Not yet
3. If so, who is paying for their college?
4. If not, who will be paying for their college? Right now with finances it would be up to them to get scholarships, loans and grants.
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) I am more than comfortable with it. I know BM will probably not pitch in except for fun things like buying crap for a dorm room or the such... that is her mo now... why would it change. it.
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? If when he time comes we have the money (which is the idea with me going to school :-) ) I would be more than happy to pay as much of their way as possible. This would be contigent on their grades and effort though. I would not just be forking out money just because. They would still be required to have at least a part time job just as I will require them to do in high school. It builds responsibility imo... all of our kids know that when they get old enough if they want a car they will have to pay for their own insurance and the only way they will get a cell phone is when they are old enough to pay for one themselves. None of the kids know that I have started savings account for them (especially not BM) when I have extra it goes into the account. when I dont it doesnt. What they do know is I preach all of the time... do well you need scholarships for college blah blah blah... when you get old enough you will need to buy your own car responsibility blah blah blah... money set aside for them will be a nice surprise when that time comes.

From SS,

"The way I look at it, we can always help more. Things like year abroad, clothes, helping to fix a broken car, etc. But the onus of the education should be on the one receiving it, so they know the full value of the process in which they are participating. I have seen too many of my peers get a "free ride" only to jump off midway through. That is not doing a child a service. "

I would put tuition and room and board far ahead of year abroad or car. Of course year abroad and fixing car are generally less than tuition and room and board. If my kid had to take out loans, I would strongly discouarge extras like year abroad and car.

KKNY, why is SAHM who sits on her butt eating bon-bons not the same as SAHM who works? What's the difference? I stayed at home and I am a mom. I worked longer hours so that I could put in the majority of my time while my daughter was doing other activities or with her father. What's the difference between SAHM's who spend all day watching soaps and someone who spends all day on the computer surfing the web and a mother who gets paid for what she does during the day in the home?

And if a child needs a car to get to college and to get to work,the car being fixed is important. I personally consider year abroad to be a major component to a higher education and is usually not much more expensive than staying at home college. I would also put tuition, etc ahead of those things, but you missed my point entirely, as usual. That point was that I think it's better to be an assistant to a child's education rather than the main force/leader. And my reason is because I think it will be worth more to the child in the long run.

"What's the difference between SAHM's who spend all day watching soaps and someone who spends all day on the computer surfing the web and a mother who gets paid for what she does during the day in the home? " - the difference is use of family resources

"That point was that I think it's better to be an assistant to a child's education rather than the main force/leader. And my reason is because I think it will be worth more to the child in the long run." - We'll just have to agree to disagree, I think parent should be the main force in FUNDING child's education. (Of course child should be the main leader is his/her own college education -- the learning part). I think where child is leader for funding part, it becomes much more likely child will not complete UG or grad school. I agree year abroad usually not that much expensive -- as to vital composnent, I think it depends on childs program. And again, fixing car and year abroad are more likely to be lessser components than the basics.

You and I obviously dont agree on college funding, but please stop with the insults that I dont understand -- oh again I keep forgetting the SM is always right.

kkny, I don't recall anyone saying that "the SM is always right"? No one is right or wrong, not the BM, not the BD, not the SM or the SD, or the SS or the DD or the SD or the DS...it's not all "black and white",there are gray areas in life and it's just a discussion, no one has to be "right". :)

Fine, then as I said SS and I will have to agree to disagree to disagree. But then telling me I dont understand is a putdown -- which you are so quick to call on me.

KKNY, why am I a SM to you? This has nothing to do with me being a SM. This is what I'm talking about when I say you are missing the point and going off on a tangent.

The use of family resources: A person who stays at home caring for children is contributing just as much as the person who goes to work to support the family. The resources and their use are the same. Without the SAHP the other would not be able to go outside of the house to make a living in the same way. Therefore a spouse who stays at home, and is the house-manager and goes to college is not the same as someone who's parents pay for their college/dorm/board. IMO

It may make sense for a parent to stay at home, or work part time with small chilren. When they get older, most people can manage quite well, with help.

I dont understand what you mean house manager and going to college. Is the "housemanager" going to college? If you propose that kids work for tuition, why is house manager not working for tuition. It seems to me most of us are house managers and work (and working for $$ at home is working).

? I meant I managed the house.

" If you propose that kids work for tuition, why is house manager not working for tuition. "

I was. That's what I'm saying. But I don't think it would matter what I say because you're going to skew it regardless.

I believe equal value should be put on someone who stays home and cares for children and the wage-earner. Therefore I believe saying that someone who stays home and goes to college is equal to someone who has parents paying for college is factitious.

I think taking care of infants etc may warrant staying home. With school age kids, I can not see getting a job, helping with college with the older ones, and getting after school help for the school age ones. Of couse, if the economics of that dont work, they dont work. But it would seem strange to me to be a SAHM with only school age kids and not help older ones with tuition. Actually it would seem selfish.

Wait, what????

My SD is 9. At the time I was going to college I was still married to my DD's father. I have one child. She was two when I went back to school.

But, to refer to your point:
Why is it more selfish to provide the same childhood for the younger children as was provided for the older ones? If someone were a SAHM for one child, now in college, why should the second child have to go to after school programs because the parent is now working to provide for the older child's college? What is the calibration on selfish behavior?

This whole post was because you seem to think SMs here believe their skids should pay their own way. I disagree. I think those who think the children should pay their own way do not discriminate between bio and step: everyone pays. And the same for those who think they should pay for their kids education, they think they should pay for both bio and step. I don't see the mothers here discriminating between bio and step in regards to paying for college.

KK, I work part-time and also contribute from an educ. fund to our household.

BUT I don't work full-time and one of the reasons being is that it is actually harder, at least for our family, now that the kids ARE in school.

I taught full-time when DD was in preschool b/c the center she went to was open until 6 pm, and it was easier for me to pick her up around 5 pm.

She gets out of school at 3 pm now and aftercare is $10/HR. YOW. That would be $150 a week if I were working until 5:30. With teaching, I usually left work around 4:30-5:00, but then sometimes I would use that time to run to the store, post office, etc.

Then there is SS and with our schedule with him, if I were working past 3, we would need aftercare for HIM on Wed, Thurs. and every other Friday. His aftercare is $8/hr or something like that.

The problem we really have is all their extra-curricular activities! DD has swim team twice a week now, and SS has soccer once a week. Both are after school.

Last year, DD had acting once a week and ballet once a week. SS had soccer last year, and basketball clinics in the winter. In a few weeks when soccer ends, he is doing a hockey clinic.

I was super surprised by how busy their schedules got once they were in school and had activities at 4-5 pm. WOW.

As it is now---we have swim team from 5-6 on Tues/Thurs. SS also has Cub Scouts every other Thursday at 5:30 pm.

Craziness!

It makes more sense for me to be available after school for them than it does to hire someone to pick them up, drive them, etc.

Of course, that's not always an option for every family. But I just wanted to clarify that things don't always ease up when the kids are school age! And that getting after-school help can wind up being quite costly, particularly when you have more than one child and when they attend different schools.

I found my schedule a lot more flex and open to work when DD was in daycare/preschool!

LH, you have relatively small children and you work part time, seems reasonable to me.

LH, I know it is tough. People here made fun of me for having an aupair till D could drive.

As to older children not being in after school programs, that is frequently a natural consequence of being older -- becuase family has younger ones at home. there are pluses and minues to having younger bros and sisters

"As to older children not being in after school programs, that is frequently a natural consequence of being older -- becuase family has younger ones at home. there are pluses and minues to having younger bros and sisters"

Yes, there are, aren't there!? Sorry honey, but my priorities are making sure your younger brothers and sisters have someone at home when they get home from school, that's why I'm not going to take another job to pay for their afterschool care so that I can contribute the piddling amount that's left after expenses (more gas for the car, etc. associated with working) to your college fund.

Why is one more selfish than the other?

"Yes, there are, aren't there!? Sorry honey, but my priorities are making sure your younger brothers and sisters have someone at home when they get home from school, that's why I'm not going to take another job to pay for their afterschool care so that I can contribute the piddling amount that's left after expenses (more gas for the car, etc. associated with working) to your college fund."

I agree with you silversword.

It does seem to turn into a Step vs Bio debate.

The funny thing is, if we were talking about a nuclear, intact family here, with older sibs, and younger sibs, no one would see anything wrong with it. When you have more children, resources are divided and it does change things financially.

You make the best decisions you can for the good of everyone in the family.

No one is *more important* than anyone else, step or bio.

"...You make the best decisions you can for the good of everyone in the family...No one is *more important* than anyone else, step or bio"

Thank you LH. That's exactly how I feel, and how I think most SMs here feel.

Yes, whe one has more kids resources are divided. But both parents decide on whether to have more kids. I do understand dividing resources -- but to start with oh its good for college kids to earn there own tuition is to me then a rationalization.

And I said if the economics dont work (as in all there would be left would be a piddling amount), then they dont.

Well if first born should get priority off "funds" then I gues my hubby's twins aare up the creek because I am the one with the money, not him or his crazy EX. Guess it's a real good thing I don't count them not being MY first against them, huh?

I still can't type by the way;)

I think if parents can pay then great but if they can't they are by no means obligated by law or child welfare agencies. You do not get arrested for not paying your childs tuition. Of course I would love for DH and myself to help as much as we can but with four kids ....They are going to have to work and help us out. We can't pay for all the costs for all four kids. Theres no way. Not unless I win the lotto and then OF COURSE I would absolutly love to pay all their living and school costs while they go. That's in the perfect world though and I don't live there.

hey boodledoo... nice to see you!

Wait, four kids Boodle?

Six months preggers Silver. Bwa hahahahaha. Birth Control pills do NOT work 100% and you CAN get pregnant breastfeeding. It's OK though, both parents are working so we can handle it;)

I meant five months. I'm trying to speed this pregnancy along I guess. It seems like it's been TWELVE months.

LOL! Glad to hear J's working and you have a job too. That's great. Congratulations!

Huh. Who is this J of which you speak? (suspicious darty eyes inserted here)

Irish twins! Congratulations Boodle!

Wait, did I say J? I meant Clay! or Hurray! or something like that...

Thank you sweeby! The twins, the bugaboo, mommy and daddy are both very excited. BM not so much. We n't hear form her much, well at all really these days since she's on "vacation" and all. Her "vacation" timing could NOT have been any better. No drama to contend with this pregnancy.

OK I'm done high jacking....sorry Silver:)

NP Doodle. :)

"Finedreams, had I completed college right out of high school, my parents would have paid for it. And, I probably would not have worked as hard, knowing myself."

that was my point. we are discussing children who are out of high school not grown ups who go to school later in life while married and having own kids, that's why your own exprerience just isn't relevant. no matter if you took basket weaving

1. Are you a SM or a BM or both? BOTH

2. Do you have children of college age? Nope, not yet

3. If so, who is paying for their college? SD will be in college in 3-4 years....her bioparents have no written agreement to this in divorce decree. BM says dad will pay, he says' nope. I tell her best get a job.
4. If not, who will be paying for their college? above answer...plus i know sd has RESP from her aunt. My son is covered by me. I put cash aside for him and i expect him to work for the rest. As for skids, its up to my dh and bm. But i highly doubt either one wants to foot the bill. Both are high school grads, dont care about education etc..etc.. i'm the one with the university degree and my sd looks up to me. But i wont foot the bill for her either way. I believe that is up to both bioparents and if both cannot produce the money due to teh financial instability of the world right now theni completely understand. Kids can also get a job like i did. My father paid for nothing and i put myself through college and university. So i dont htink its only up tot he parents but also the individual going to school and how serious they are as a student.
5. Is the situation as you would like it to be (if paying, are you comfortable with that? Why or why not) NA
6. If the financial situation were better or worse, how would that change your opinion? It wouldn't change. I think the young adult should work and apply for bursary and loans. Parents can help if they can but not be forced.

"we are discussing children who are out of high school not grown ups who go to school later in life while married and having own kids, that's why your own exprerience just isn't relevant. "

Really? Who is this WE you speak of? As I recall, I started this thread. I think I know as well as anyone what WE are discussing. When my parents decided to pay for my college out of high school I know what I would have done. Partied and goofed off. I'm glad I didn't push through then because I would have been left with a pile of poo for education.

What is a "grown-up" to you? Someone who is over 18? Someone who no longer lives in the house? Someone who has taken a year off after high school? Do they still apply? It's ridiculous and offensive that you would say my experiences are irrelevant.

I started college after high school. I finished college as a young, married mother. I found the experience of paying my own way to be of more benefit to my educational experience than that which was paid by my parents.

DISCLAIMER...This will not be the case for everyone. My personal experiences will not be good for everyone. Everyone will not achieve the same results... proceed with caution!!!

LOL. I started this because I disagree with the statement that ALL SM's don't think they should pay for Skids college. I disagree. I think decisions for paying for college run deeper, and for most SM's here, that decision will not change whether for Skids or Biokids.

MY decision, for both kids, is to support as much as I can, but not give them a "free ride". I don't think that is a good idea, based on my history, and that I have seen in other families. Everyone is welcome to do as they like, I have no problem with that. But to say my experiences aren't valid? That's just rude.

No one said your experience werent valid -- its just that discussing paying for college the discussion makes sense to analyize for younger kids, rather than kids long out of that house.

Again, no one was trying to say your experience wasnt valid, so theres no need to call anyone rude.

KKNY Posted by kkny (My Page) on Sun, Oct 11, 09 at 13:25..."No one said your experience werent valid..."

Yes, KKNY, FD did say that my experiences were not relevant because they did not fit into the discussion. She postulates that the discussion is about college age kids, therefore my experience as an adult paying for college is not relevant to the discussion, ero my opinion that kids should have to work for their education in order to get the most of it is not relevant. I beg to differ. My opinion is relevant, as the opinion of someone who's parents paid the whole way and they graduated with honors. We are a cumulation of our experince, which has a direct effect on how we raise our children.

...posted by finedreams (My Page) on Sat, Oct 10, 09 at 12:52: "...we are discussing children who are out of high school not grown ups who go to school later in life while married and having own kids, that's why your own exprerience just isn't relevant.

She was saying not relevant for this discusion, not that it isnt valid.

Hmmm... KKNY said something that I believe is true here, that most students who start in Community Colleges here in the US DON'T move on to 4 year universities. That being said, MANY do go on to 4 year universities and community colleges are cheap compared to most 4 year schools along with having only the requirement of a high school diploma. For a really motivated person it's a great avenue.

I went to college at 17. Of course, that was many years ago and kids just started kindergarten earlier. My mother worked so I had to go to school young I guess. I won't say I had the smoothest transition from home to college at 17 as I went to college 3000 miles away from home, had no budgeting skills and went a bit(ok, more than a bit) wild as a freshman. However, I did graduate on time as my parents made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that their money would be over in 4 years. There were a lot of people who started at 17 in my class in college back in the day. Also, if I had to work, really work, not just part time jobs for fun money, I'm not sure I would have made it through and definitely not in four years!

I really wish my SS29 would go and finish college. That is about the ONLY thing that I would be willing to sacrifice for on his behalf and that includes his kids. That way he would have at least some chance of being an independent adult one day which would be better for everyone involved including me! Yep, I'm motivated by self interest on that one!

Lamom, kudos to you and your parents. I think it is important when parents make it clear to kids that they are on board with the funding part of college.

Thanks...well, I learned from my parents. They sacrificed for me to go but made it clear that I had 4 years to get up and out with a degree. And that did not include a graduate degree, that I had to pay for myself.

They also made it clear that I was expected to work during the summers for spending money and after college get busy, get a real job and get off of their dime! Their attitude was that they paid my tuition, most of my big expenses, got me to 21 years of age with a degree, no criminal record, no babies, no tattoos and they were done!

I sure don't see any of that operating at all with my SS29, BM or even really DH when it comes to my SS29. Throw in his two kids, sheesh. My parents were clear, give her a degree and let her work! And we'll use our money after to go on vacation (not making that part up.)

silverswood, your experience is not relevant for this topic. it is valid, just not for this topic. it is right you started it by talking about "college age children". you said college age children (do you think married women with their own kids fall into a category of college age children?)

you were a married woman with children staying home while your husband worked and you went to school, i mean of course your parents didn't help wiht college or cost of living "Duh". your husband worked, paid your cost of living and you possibly took loan or he paid for college, in any case your parents wouldn't be the ones to help. you were married. so in fact you could say that your cost of living while you were in college was paid. just not by parents, by your husband. so you can't say you supported yourself.

Finedreams, I respectfully disagree. I started my college education when I was unmarried without children. I finished my degree as a married woman with children. Yes, I personally took out a loan. My husband did not pay my cost of living, I made a lot more money than he did and did full child care and housewife duties as well. If one were looking at it as a strictly-roommate situation one could say that I actually helped support him while I went to school.

But that is neither here nor there. I may have my opinion based on my experience.

FD ..." i mean of course your parents didn't help wiht college or cost of living "Duh". your husband worked, paid your cost of living and you possibly took loan or he paid for college,"

No, he didn't pay my cost of living. Duh yourself.

"Finedreams, had I completed college right out of high school, my parents would have paid for it."

here you go, you said it yourself, they would pay. the reason they didn't pay because generally parents don't pay college tuition for their married, living on their own, not dependent children.

So what? I never said my parents should have paid for my college, whether I lived at home, or was married, or anything. I said that my experiences are what made me decide what was best for my children.

We're talking about if we would pay for college for our kids or our stepkids. I will not pay the entire thing for my kid or my stepkid, based on my experiences.