I think that the people who say 'She must be the better person, because Dad chose her.' feel that way in their own lives and project it onto everyone else. It's simply not true always and usually it's about someone's insecurities and not the real truth. And sometimes, if a child thinks that, it's because they don't know the truth about the break-up.

I have never thought that X's GF is better than me and I know she's never thought that about me. We are vastly different people who have had vastly different relationships with the same man. Her's has been calm and compromising and mine was volitile and self-centered.

Maybe BM thinks she's better than me. She makes tons more money and has nicer things. I don't think I'm better than her, although I am more emotional than she is (she often comes off cold, but she really isn't). I know that I have more respect for FDH, but I don't know much about their marriage before the end. I used to think she was better than me until I realized that she is self-centered and everything she does is to position herself for what SHE wants; not what's best for her family (ex. moving to NM, takiing a pay-cut, moving her husband, taking her daughter from her father, DS, and a life-long home at the impressionable age of 13 just because she wants to be back in her home town). BUT, even at that, she has a lot of great qualities I don't have.

And because FDH CHOSE her just as he CHOSE me. She left him so he was free to CHOOSE as he wanted.

"What made me a bit uncomfortable is that "good daddy" is actually the same daddy as BM had. "

- Yeah, technically. But when you get right down to it, I don't think that's quite true. I know my husband is a better person with me than he was with his first wife. From things he's said, from things his mother has said, from things his kids have said. I know that he lives up to my expectations, and suspect he lived down to hers. And when you get right down to it, different people bring out different sides to our personalities. I know I smooth down DH's rough edges and keep him on a more even emotional keel. He can tend to over-react, and his Ex was a drama queen -- so I'm sure he was much more volatile. I know my kids got a much better father than hers did -- even though it's the same man...

But as to the heart of the issue, I didn't read anything snarky or condescending in Doodle's post -- but then that was through my own filter. Other members have different life experiences and will read the same words differently.

I think it is quite likely that the children will believe that their mother's emotional problems are linked to not being with their father.

According to her child, TOW used my exH to combat her depression during the holiday season. The Christmas after my exH moved in with TOW, her child, who was considerably older than these girls, told one of my kids that before they had "exH's name" they didn't even get a Christmas tree until the very last minute, and this year it was up and decorated well before Christmas. I don't think the child meant that statement to mean "ha, ha, we have your father now and you don't" and my child was certainly hoping he didn't mean it that way, but it still hurt my child deeply. At least WE already had our Christmas tree up, since I would never even has considered ignoring our Christmas traditions.

So TOS, would your kids to link your emotional problems to not being with their father?

I believed you strong enough to choose your own destiny.

Well that is certainly a "when did you stop beating your wife" type question.

How is it relevant that I have managed to function quite well without a man in my life? Obviously neither the twins' mother nor my exH's OW are/were functioning terribly well.

I managed to make sure my kids had a nice Christmas every year, including the first year after he left. Yes, of course there was a hole there - although I realize almost everyone here apparently danced a jig when their divorce was finalized, or at least pretended in retrospect to have done so.

My kids are proud of what I have accomplished since their father left. I can't imagine them ever having wished that I could find a "good daddy" - especially since most of them would strongly prefer that I remain single.

"especially since most of them would strongly prefer that I remain single"

Not to slam your kids TOS, because I think they sound like nice enough people... but I think that's a little selfish of them.
I can see that the younger ones still at home (or is it just one at home now?) could have that sentiment, but I think that the grown ones out on their own should strongly prefer that you are happy. IMO, they should be fine with it if you are happy on your own (a totally valid choice) or if you decide you would like to have a nice SO in your life (also a totally valid choice).

I know you and I have different opinions on what adult needs parents should make themselves available for... But I really do hope that your kids would respect it and be happy for you if you decided to date. I think it would be sad if they didn't want to you to have a relationship if you wanted one. I hope that they would realize that you are their mom, whether you are single or have an SO, and they will always be just as important in your life.

Again, I'm really not trashing your kids, just saying that I hope that they would respect your right to make your own personal decisions.

LOL, but you missed the point. I was, in a rather sarcastic way, trying to say that a man doesn't have to be at the heart of all emotional problems, and I find it odd that you would assume the girls would go straight to that conclusion. Their parents seperated when they were very young. Unless they are continually told by their mother that the lack of their father in her life is the root of her issues, I don't see why the girls would leap from 'mom is a little off' to 'must because because she and dad split.'

We all have our issues. Do you blame yours on your ex? Do your kids blame them on their dad, or his leaving? My point was what you said - there is more to life than a man. We can proudly exist without them, so we can't blame them for all that is wrong.

JNM, maybe kids would not come to that conclusion, but they already did. "Why can't mommy find a good daddy?" This is their conclusion. Maybe they didn't mean why good daddy left mommy, but they are concerned that mommy does not have a good man. And in my understanding children should not come to this conclusion unless we promt them. They should not bother with that. And if they do ask questions then maybe we can tell them that people are OK without a "good daddy". Sounds bad though like a sugar daddy. I still wonder what about gay women? Are they doomed, no good daddies for them? lol

ceph,

My oldest kids wouldn't care, and I don't think any of them would mind if I "dated." They all are fine with my going out to dinner with my friends. The four who were not adults or nearly so when my H left have said more than once that they were glad that I did not remarry and bring a stepfather into their lives. The topic hasn't really come up since some more of them went off to college.

JNM,

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Clearly having a father abandon you CAN cause a lot of issues. As an adult, I can say that I do not need a man in my life, but I would not say that my kids are just as well off without their father actively in their life.

This is a great trap to fall into, believing that you are the "better woman" and make no mistake the person who reaps the rewards of this "competition" is none other the male. Because you, second wife, will do cartwheels to prove you are a "better" mother, wife, housekeeper, etc. Use this thinking very cautiously because it will turn on you when you least expect it.

The real competition remains between the original couple. He is cocking a snook at his first wife, by saying, look how easily I replaced you with someone better. This will become obvious when first wife gets herself what he considers a "better husband" than him. Usually men measure their success by status and what better measure of status than income.

When BM finds a "better" husband ie more money and status, suddenly you will find that the good daddy will become strangely dissatisfied with you and for no apparent reason. She has now replaced him with someone better and he canÂt stand for that. And on it goes. Best course of action is obviously to become financially and emotionally stable yourself.

Of course first wife is thrown into depression and confusion because of the divorce, remarriage, etc. because she has seen how precarious her position is and especially when another female is all too willing to step in and usurp her mother role. Have some empathy for her situation....not sympathy, not pity, some genuine empathy.

Catlettuce, I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that another poster had mentioned this sort of sentiment, I thought about that, and all I could come up with was the post by Doodle. If you look back at that post, you will see what I think about it, which is not that there was anything wrong with the way she handled things.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought that thread up at all, but that's what I kept coming back to: many SM's thinking that Doodle was saying she was better because she got the "daddy".

And, I thought there must be more behind this feeling, if so many jumped on that bandwagon.

Just to clarify, too, when I brought the "...b/c Dad chose her" statement up, it was not in reference to Doodle at all. I didn't even think of that, or that anyone would assume that's what I was referring to. It's just one of those phrases you sometimes hear, just in general in the world, about stepfamilies. Or maybe it's just me who's heard that... Has anyone else heard someone say that and know what I'm talking about?

"I think it is quite likely that the children will believe that their mother's emotional problems are linked to not being with their father."

That is sad to say the least.

Maybe then more moms should pull themselves up by the boot straps and keep their emotional problems to themselves. I have seen, and I am not saying on this board, a lot of single moms, including my SS's BM, use their children as a crutch to get through hard times or treat their kids as friends and share much too much about their personal adult life. Again, I am not in any way saying that about the people on this forum, but I have seen time and time again my SS's mom drag him through all of her personal issues, not with my dh, her ex, but with her longtime bf and their problems. As a result he is constantly worried about his mom and her emotional state of mind. However, things seem to be good over there and he is acting more like a kid which I am so happy for.

There is a primary situation of emotional incest, where a parent, rather than going out and establishing adult confidants to share their personal and very adult troubles with instead treat their child as an adult and confidant.

Of course they do not understand the long term harm they are causing to their child, because they aren't "parenting", and in fact are using a child to fulfill their emotional needs.

I was in no way referring to any specific person in my previous comments. And in fact this thread should have been a stand alone topic with no mention of any names.

"I have seen, and I am not saying on this board, a lot of single moms, including my SS's BM, use their children as a crutch to get through hard times or treat their kids as friends and share much too much about their personal adult life."

Me, too. FSD's BM is that way to a certain extent. She'll call FSD and say "oh it's too bad you're not here because SF is working tonight and I have to sleep in the bed alone". Oh give me a break!

I have a friend who is married to an alcoholic. She has a 9-1/2 yo and a 7 yo. She has used them as a crutch for so long. She has slept in the same bed as her kids since the oldest was born. The kids have their own rooms, but they are "scared" to sleep in them. After long conversations with her and seeing the interaction between her and the kids and her and her husband, it is apparrant to me that she uses the kids to avoid intimacy with her husband. And allowing the kids to be "scared" of sleeping in their own rooms is more of a dis-service to them than she realizes. The kids see how their parents don't really deal with eachother and when they do it's almost hostile. She hasn't had sex with her husband since they were trying to get pregnant with the 1st one (both kids were in vitro). But it's more than sexual intimacy. They don't communicate. She always has one or both kids around at all times so they never have a moment to deal with their issues. She uses them as a sheild. And the kids don't ever want to be away from their mom. When my DS wants to hang out with his friend, they must do it over there. I feel so sad for the kids having to bear the burden of their mother's and father's problems. But most of all, I worry how the kids will deal with things as they get older. They don't have a functional model of a family or marriage. Just as my friend didn't when she was younger.

"And in fact this thread should have been a stand alone topic with no mention of any names."

Sorry Colleen, I goofed.

Serenity, perhaps I should not have mentioned your name. I didn't mean to imply that you were speaking about Doodle. I was trying to say that I didn't think that about Doodle's situation, but that was the only one that came to mind, because OTHERS were saying that she was making herself out to be the better/luckier person because she had their daddy. Again, I'm sorry to have made you feel defensive, because that wasn't the intention. :) I know you didn't say that, and I know I didn't say that.

When you said this should be another post, it kind of stuck in my head, because I have heard that sentiment before, but I couldn't think of anything except the conflict over Doodle's situation. So I posted it to get it out of my head.

Growl. What a tangled mess.

I have heard this said before. I think that often women and men fall into the "you're too good for your ex" and "you're so much better than my ex" feeling and they overcompensate because it's easier to feel the new person is better. Hopefully, if we're not downsliding, the new person IS BETTER. But to a kid, no one is really better than their parents, at least to a certain degree, or up to a certain point of abuse/neglect.

I think that kids do see relationships more clearly than we give them credit for. I think that they can probably tell Dad is happier with new SM than he was with BM. And I think that unless SM is careful and father is careful that kids can get the wrong impression. But I think that's a continuous stream of information, not that they can just form that impression based on one statement. It's an ongoing one-upmanship or it's an attempt to point out the good of both moms (or dads) when given the opportunity. I think (as a S-kid) that children will be better off being given the good information about their parents and not having the parents put down, even if they're rotten sobs. Like Doodle said, telling the truth, but not oversharing. They will find out soon enough who their parents are as people and will not associate the SM/Dad with those feelings if they discover it on their own!

I know, even though my parents divorced when I was very young, that my dad is happier with SM, even though I don't want to live with her! Is she a better person? No, not really, but she is a better person FOR MY DAD than my mom is.

Colleen:
"There is a primary situation of emotional incest, where a parent, rather than going out and establishing adult confidants to share their personal and very adult troubles with instead treat their child as an adult and confidant."

WOW! This is exactly what my mother did with me. I never had a word for it before. And, amazingly enough it fits right in with her NPD.

She told me about an aunt getting drunk/high and crashing grandma's car, she told me about another's near death experience, she told me about a family friend who wanted to become a woman, she told me about so many things that really were not appropriate for a kid to know. Some were "secrets" others were not, but on occasion I would get it wrong and boy would the people she told me about get upset! I never saw it as gossip, but that's exactly what she was doing, except it was with her child.

That's totally okay, Silversword, I understood what you meant... mainly I think the confusion might be just because the "Dad chose her" phrase may be less commonly heard than we thought it was so not everyone is familiar with what we're referring to...

I thought you were referencing that specific thread yes.
No biggie really, it started a great discussion, that's why we're here! :0)

~Cat

*She'll call FSD and say "oh it's too bad you're not here because SF is working tonight and I have to sleep in the bed alone".*

This is so typical of SD's mom. She has a certain neediness to her that comes across in many ways. She has played up the 'poor me I'm so alone without you' card since she lost custody . . . except when she has a man, and suddenly she doesn't 'need' SD so much any more.

BM has discussed her marriage and divorce to BD with SD as if she was a peer. She's discussed all her subsequent relationships with SD. She treats SD as a girlfriend rather than a daughter in this and many other ways, but then gets angry when SD doesn't respect her as a mother.

You get what you give, I say.

Honestly ladies...I think what the girls meant by the "why can't mommy find a good daddy" was that they wish she'd leave the guys alone altogether.

As far as having any regrets about their mother and father not being married anymore...that's not it. They associate their mother's boyfriend as being Nat (the guy who recently left) bacause that is who they remember seeing her with. They don't associate mom and dad as ever being together...they don't know marriage or sex yet so they only know mom and dad are mom and dad because they are mom and dad....the connection between J and Amanda isn't there at all in their brains. Their mother was with Nathan and I am with Jonathan...that's all they have ever really known. It was really tramatic for them when Nathan dissapeared, I can tell you that. They are still asking questions about his absence and thewy have NEVER asked why is mom and dad not together anymore....never.

As far as the OP goes I do not think the girls believe I am better than their mother because their father chose me. Again, there is NO CONCEPT of me "replacing" Amanda at all because they don't remember them even living together. I think they are CONCERNED for their mother because they see destructive behavior on her end.

I am having trouble seeing why that post has raised s many off topic questions because the things spinning off from it doesn't even apply to our situation?

The girls can't just be worried because their mom is sick? There can't just be an OBVIOUS reason without trying to pin some sort of blame on the Step Mother struggling to clean up the bio-parents left behind mess? There is no hidden sick agenda.

This got blown ridiculously out of proportion.

What made me a bit uncomfortable is that "good daddy" is actually the same daddy as BM had. This is still the same guy we are talking about! so when girls asked why mommy cannot find a good daddy maybe they didn't realize that he is that same daddy! I just wonder if one day when they are older they may feel sad that their dad (who is obviously a nice guy) isn't with their mother anymore and maybe that's why she is so messed up. And maybe doodle is fine because now she got him? I know it make no sense to adults but who knows what could come to kids' mind. My niece is 6 and she sometimes comes up wiht the strangest things. So i would nto be surpirsed if the girls start wondering.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finedreams- This is a harsh thing to say but it's reality....I AM more stable than their mother and that is EXACTLY the reason he is no longer with her. There is no reason to try and put the situation in any other light. Her sickness was making him sick and he had to leave. The girls ARE going to come to this realization eventually because it is the truth. Right now they are much much MUCH too young to understand this so there is no point in rubbing it in their faces that Daddy WAS with mommmy but she screwed it up. To me that is sicker than just letting it go till they are old enough to better understand what it means to be mentally ill and the hurt that that type of sickness can cause to others. It DESTROYS relationships....look at her relationship with her own children.

You make it sound as if I was intentionally trying to cover up the fact that Jonathan and Amanda were ever together. The question I have for you is WHAT GOOD WOULD IT DO TO RUB IT IN THEIR FACE? They don't remember so why give them some other difficult reality to chew on.
What would the purpose be. If I did do that I would be like the kid on the playground saying "NANNY NANNY BOO BOOO".... I got your daddy and your mom doesn't anymore' Is there any purpose to this other than giving mom some credit of having a good man ONCE because the follow up would be that she ruined it....how is that in any way good for five year olds to hear?

I'm sorry Doodleboo. All I could come up with that was concrete was people finding issues with your post and using those words. I had no issue with they way you handled that situation and didn't think this applied at all. But some did, and that's what brought it up in Serentity's mind (I think).

The question actually for me while reading the other thread was "wow, some people think that she's thinking she's better because she has the daddy and that's what she's telling/portraying to the girls. That's really strange. I didn't think of it like that. And that's disturbing. I've experienced this thought pattern before with other people who think that someone thinks the second wife/husband is the better person instead of taking each person and relationship on an individual basis. We should discuss this."

I guess like Serenity said, I thought this was more common in these words than it really is.

I didn't mean to cause you any more pain. I'm sorry.

Everyone, can we remove this from the topic of Doodleboo's post (and I'm sorry I mentioned that instance) and comment on if we've experienced this situation in other ways? It's been played out, and it's understandably distressing to her.

Honestly, kids say the darndest things. I have an SD who is 6 and the things that come out of her mouth shock me sometimes. I never knew how much they can connect the dots. My SD6 can read between the lines like nobody's business.........she's only 6!
I had a similar conversation with my SD6 while we were cooking dinner one day. She's the only one out of the three of them that clearly remembers when their parents were together. She told me that her daddy loves me and not her mommy. I wasn't expecting that (at all!), so I asked her why she said that. She said that I don't yell and i'm not mean to her daddy like her mommy was, and that's why daddy loves me more and lives with me. And that mommy misses daddy but is still being mean. Didn't know what to say to that, so i just told her that as long as mommy and daddy love HER and her siblings, that's all that matters. But you could have knocked me over with a feather that day.
It is hard to answer those kind of questions/ statements, especially since they are unexpected. Trying to come up with a politically correct answer is just as challenging sometimes. I don't think Doodleboo said anything wrong at all. All she did was answer THEIR questions.

It's OK. I know what you meant...It's just unfortunate that things can't be let go on this board. Geez. I feel like I have explained to the best of my ability and it is still beinf mis-read and over interperted.

Jesus, I'm never saying that Jonathan is a good daddy in front of the girls ever again. How STUPID does THAT sound?

I think I finally figured out where the confusion happened, so I'll try to retrace what I think has led to this current misunderstandng:

-"conversations with the girls" thread raises concerns that Doodleboo's SD's will feel like Doodle is a better person than thier BM because Doodle 'has Daddy'

-kkny posts a comment a few days later which includes the phrase 'SM must be the better person because Dad chose her'. I don't remember which thread it was on, but I don't think it was an immediate response to anything posted about Doodle and her conversation with SD's. Or it could have been, but any link between the two wasn't totally clear, one way or the other.

-I then see the phrasing "SM must be the better person b/c Dad chose her" and is reminded of a more general phrase she has heard in regards NOT to a comparison between former and present WIVES but between ***step-parents and children***. (Kind of like: "You're your dad's child, but he CHOSE his wife", or "he HAS to love you because you're his child, but he CHOOSES to love his wife", or "unlike with his wife, he didn't get to CHOOSE how you would turn out, which may not be good at all; but since he CHOSE his wife, it must be assumed that she is good.") I assumed that is is the phrasing/context what KKNY was referring to.

-But, because of the timing and the similarity of the content and phrasings "better person", plus the vagueness of the referent (better than WHO? BM or step-child?), and because the majority of posters here are either BM or SM and not SK, the natural assumption was that Serenity was talking about a comparison of which of two wives is "better", with Doodle's conversations with the girls being the most recently dissected.

So that's where the confusion came in. *I* was confused, and KKNY's post reminded me of a totally different type of comparison (and accompanying phrase): that between step-parent and child. I still don't know if anyone else has heard this phrase used in THAT context, or if it's only me. I've heard it from more than one person in more than one context, all *outside* my own family, so I have to think it's something at least one of you amy have heard before, something that's out there in the world getting said by some people in these situations. But it wouldn't be nearly as common as some of the other, more popular catch-phrases we usually hear in stepfamily discussion, like "united front", "you knew he had kids when you married him", "blood is thicker than water" or any of those more common ones.

Sorry for the confusion...

btw, in that last post I'd started referring to myself in the third person, but then thought better of it. (Not wanting to be obnoxious like "Jimmy" from Seinfeld: "Jimmy likes his new shoes", "Jimmy isn't feeling so good today"...) However I neglected to change all my grammar to reflect "I"/"me". So, sorry for THAT confusion as well! :)

"The real competition remains between the original couple. He is cocking a snook at his first wife, by saying, look how easily I replaced you with someone better. This will become obvious when first wife gets herself what he considers a "better husband" than him. Usually men measure their success by status and what better measure of status than income."

I don't agree with this. I think it is a blanket statement. Sometimes there is no competition. Sometimes people move on happily and happily moved on people do not compete.

I can say that we would LOVE for the girls mom to get a good guy....not because we care about her. Let's be frank...she is not our concern, and nor should she be, the GIRLS are our only concern. We want her to get a "good" guy or stay away from them all together because the girls have been negatively affected by her cruddy relationships and as a result we have to be watch dogs to make sure the girls are safe around her boyfriends. It's tiresome and annoying.

I'm sure there are alot of seperated bio parents who want their ex's to be with good people for the sake of the children involved...not everyone focuses on the dead marriage so much that it's a constant source of competition.

I've heard it in real life before. And yes, that sentiment comes across in some posts, even here.

Most of the times I've heard it has been from someone who is unsure of their role and position. So it's really more and says more about them, then the stepchild IMO.

True Nivea. I think the only reason a statement like that would be said is to make the person feel more secure in their role.
I think it would be tiring to be in competition all the time, especially concerning your home life. Does it matter who's better? Is there a "better"? It's all subjective. What's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other. It's like arguing which is the better color, red or blue? (I personally like green)

I so agree that there is no such thing is "better".

Keep in mind that sometimes marriages fail because people aren't willing to put up with something their spouses do.

So their subsequent partners are not necessarilly better, they just are willing to put up with stuff.

I had the hardest time putting up wiht my x's workacholism and his tendency to be bossy, and couple of other things. His current wife is OK with that. So does it make her a better person because she is OK with playing second role and OK with him never being home? No, we are just different.

Everyone has traits and talents different from everyone else. Even in generalizing personality types, people are more blends of different personality types than they are fully one certain type. One spouse could've been a great cook and the other could've been lousy at cooking, but kept the house spotless. That's why competition in this type of situation is foolish. I don't make near the money BM makes, BUT I am more generous with the money I do have.

Plus, there are usually several years between the beginning and end of one relationship and the beginning of another. For instance, I was with X from the time I was 16 to the time I was 23. That's 7 years of life changing that matured me and changed me. When I got with FDH, I was WAY more mature than I was when I got with X. X is a totally different person now than he was then. He grew and matured. Those years helped him to mature and be a more effective partner and even co-parent.

Personally, I think that sometimes couples can inhibit maturity and growth in eachother. Taking the example of me, I was 16 when I met X and he was barely 21. I got pregnant at (6 days away from) 19 and he was 24. I grew up rapidly at that point, but he didn't. He never had to. To him, we had the same relationship we did before the baby and the house and all the other responsibilites came. He refused to be more mature and continued to job hop, have an explosive temper, go to strip clubs, do drugs, lie about stupid things, binge drink, drive drunk and party with his friends from high school and would even hang out with people barely out of high school. He wanted all the benefits of being a grown-up but none of the responsibilities. After DS and I left, he still continued to be volitile for another year+. But then he slowly started compromising more, holding down a job, getting rid of the high school party scene, slowing down the drinking and not drinking just to get drunk, stopping the drugs and arguing effectively. I believe that our relationship was enabling him to stay stuck at about age 18.

This whole thread can be dealt with in one brief conversation I had with A__ the other day...

I made oven fries (you know, potato wedges tossed in olive oil and spices, then baked at 400 until the are golden?)...
When A__ came to the kitchen for supper he said "ALRIGHT!! Cooked potatoes! Ceph, you're the second-best person EVER!"
I laughed and asked "Second best?"
"Yeah, 'cause my mom has to be first-best person because she's my mom, but that you makes you next!!"
"Sounds fair to me! Let's eat!"

Later that day, while he was a little teary because I had given him heck for pestering the cat while she was eating, just to lighten his mood, I asked "So, am I still the second-best person ever when I'm giving you heck?"
He looked up and smiled while he sniffled "Mostly."

There we go. Mom is the best, but I'm pretty good too :)
And in our situation, that's EXACTLY how it should be.

well said ceph. :)

That's gracious of you, Ceph, to hear that without getting in any way bent.
Ideally, the words "first", "second", "better", "best" wouldn't even have to be relevant or used in these situations... Guess it's hard to totally avoid thinking in those terms on occasion, it's what humans do sometimes. It was good of you to understand that it was just A___'s way of trying to make sense of the world and the adults in it and their roles in his life. Funny how those terms become only as important as others make them... that's kind of the nice irony in your story because I have a feeling that he'll grow up actually NOT using those words or thinking in those terms, precisely because you didn't make a big deal out of it one way or the other.

I didn't pit myself against the girls mom in any way either. Nor did I make a big deal out of them calling me mom but I still got tore apart here becasue it would appear to some posters that for whatever reason the girls have deamed me the "best" instead of her bio mother and it is assumed I am the one feading it to them.

I did nothing different than Ceph but got flamed because the girls didn't state mom as being in the supposed #1 slot. I still don't feel they were comparing us at all but that's what seemed to be implied.

"I made oven fries (you know, potato wedges tossed in olive oil and spices, then baked at 400 until the are golden?)..."

Ah Ha! I'm using the wrong oil! I was using vegetable oil! Thanks, Ceph! You've just saved my next batch of oven fries!

On the same note as Ceph's story, my DS will always put me, X, FDH and X's GF all on the same level when he says something like that. For instance, "My 4 favorite people in the world are....". It would be perfectly acceptable to GF and FDH if he said 2 people, but he knows all 4 of us love him and take care of him in some form or fashion. You know what? I don't care that GF is on the same level as me. I'm glad she loves him and goes out of her way for him.

Point taken, Doodle. Hard to argue with that.

Maybe there is a bias about BM being "#1"... or at least it being more acceptable to hear that said/implied of BM than SM. In any event, I don't like those "#1"/"#2" or "better"/"best" terms at all, in any context. But I think you're right to observe that there may be a built-in bias among some of us (me included) to see BM as more appropriately "#1" than SM, if anyone is going to be called "#1" (or "best") at all, or it even be vaguely floating in the air as a possibility... I can see where you feel the discrepancy between the reaction to your story vs. Ceph's was pretty extreme. Especially since none of those 'ranking' words were used by anyone in your situation. I apologize for my part in that discrepancy.

It's OK:) I think I got more insight on your views of the situation when you posted a seperate post about your step family situation. I understood more why you may see things a little differently than others since you were having isues in your personal life at the time.

It's amazing how five people can read one statement and get five totally different things from the same sentence. It's all about personal experience I guess:)

That's it, Serenity! I don't understand (my favorite catch phrase here, hehe) of why anyone says #1 or whatever about anything.

Sure, sometimes someone is going to be #1 but I can't understand what makes someone announce...so and so is first. And I've seen that on all spectrums of stepfamily life. I've seen single moms say "my kid is #1 always" and it turns off dates when it wasn't their intention. Or other people say "SO is #1 always" and it sends another signal to their kids. Why can't everyone be #1? LOL.

There CAN'T be a #1, at least in my opinion. People play different roles in your life and you can't say one role is more important than the other. In terms of the parental relationship, it requires more responsibility, but you can't say it's more important than being a spouse, or a best friend. If you can pinpoint one person who is your number 1, then to me that means that this person must be the "end all be all" for you.
I am a daughter, a wife, a stepmom, a friend, and a sister. TOGETHER, those relationships are #1 in my life.

Funny story Ceph.

It reminds me of one time when my dh and I were taking SS to his school play. He was five at the time and he piped up and said, out of nowhere, "My mom said I have to love her more than everyone else in my family because she is my mom" we said "oh okay" and then he said "I dont think that is fair because I love all of you the same" again we said "oh okay." Then we get to his play and I go sit next to his mom. He walked right up to her and said "Mom I am sorry but I love all of you the same okay." She just looked at me and then him and got red and said "okay."

It was kind of embarrassing because I wondered if she thought we put him up to saying it.

Anyway, sometimes kids say funny things. My ss once saw a rather large woman at the store and pointed at her and said rather loudly "look at the size of that thing." Yikes.

Sure, as an adult I agree that it's problematic to rank the importance of people and relationships in your life...

But how the heck would you explain that to a 9yo who is struggling to reestablish his family identities in light of the many changes in the past year?
"No, A__, your mom is not the best, and I am not the second-best because the creation of hierarchies in your personal relationships causes strife and stress. It is vitally important that you not keep all your emotional resources invested in only one person, because then you will never develop a well-balanced personal identity"
Yeah right!!

At this point, IMO, A__ needs to a strong relationship with his mom as his key tether. Also very important is his strong relationship with his dad and I. Also important is building a relationship with his FSF, because that's part of keeping his strong ties with his mom.
And he reconciles this by "best" and "second-best" and that's OK by us.

I agree the child should be free to express their feelings in whatever way they can word it. They don't understand hierarchies and family politics.

What irked me is I didn't bring any sort of ranking into the equation at all in the post that people keep refering to and yet that's what it got turned into. I nor the girls ever mentioned anything at all in the post about their mother or I being better, or the best or #1 but since the bio mom was the one who the girls were questioning that's what it got turned into. Mom was perceived by the other posters as "the winner" so I got tore apart. The double standard just gets me.

I all the sudden went from step parent sewing having a conversation with step daughters to the underhanded wrecker of bio mom who was in some way trying to make her look inferior because the girls father bought me a sewing machine.

I handled the situation no difference than you and "ranking" never even came up but I turned into the competitive witch. I think you did nothing wrong at all. A____ should be able to express himself however he feels and so should the girls.

"all the sudden went from step parent sewing having a conversation with step daughters to the underhanded wrecker of bio mom who was in some way trying to make her look inferior because the girls father bought me a sewing machine."

Doodle,
It sounds to me like mom wrecked herself. You have taken on a lot and the fact that you can keep from badmouthing her is better than many could do.

Just ignore the nasty comments it is not your fault that BM has so many issues. You are just trying to pick up her broken pieces and have a good life with your family as well as trying to shield the girls from the nasty truth of what their mom is really doing to herself and her relationship with her children. It is not your job to make their mom out to be a shining star that is on her. It is sad for them that she has failed to do so and it is sad for her as well. If you can just try to remind them that she loves them, and it sounds like you do, than that is all you can really do. Hopefully some day she will want the help she needs.

what colleen said.

ceph, that was a touching ("oven fries") story;
thanks for sharing.

Doodle,
It sounds to me like mom wrecked herself. You have taken on a lot and the fact that you can keep from badmouthing her is better than many could do.

Yep. She has and continues to destroy herself butI guess it will be somehow all my fault when the girls grow old enough to realize this. My point of the infamous sewing machine post was they ALREADY are starting to realize this and it sucks having to be in the mediation role trying to help them understand when the tuff questions come up.

Of course the moral of the story was I ruined them forever by forging a competition (by not even saying ANYTHING) with their mother by not being an addict and marrying their father...sigh. Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

'"No, A__, your mom is not the best, and I am not the second-best because the creation of hierarchies in your personal relationships causes strife and stress. It is vitally important that you not keep all your emotional resources invested in only one person, because then you will never develop a well-balanced personal identity"'

ROFL! I just died laughing because I was imagining saying this to my own 9y/o! The look that would come across his face would be enough to send me into hysterics.

"Sure, as an adult I agree that it's problematic to rank the importance of people and relationships in your life...
But how the heck would you explain that to a 9yo who is struggling to reestablish his family identities in light of the many changes in the past year?"

I agree. I really was only thinking about the adults who announce who is #1.