"I was actually wondering the same thing when that topic was active.
I am an adult stepchild too... But I think my SM is pretty great. Would my opinion be dismissed because I was in the minority? Would I be told "but we don't like our SMs, so your ideas on how to better our relationships are pointless"??"

I can see how you would come to that perspective, but it was brought up in that thread of whether a SM could post with issues with their adult stepkids. I welcomed that idea because it does give a rounded perspective. I actively dislike a one-sided slant on any subject. And that was one of the main points (entire point, actually) of the forum, to find better ways/solutions to find a way to get along with a stepparent and also save or salvage a relationship with a bio.

I believe I stated quite clearly in that thread that I've found over and over again a theme of adult stepkids need to get a life, so on and so forth.

Ceph, when I use statistics it is to put in relation of an idea or thought posted that I can generally see two sides of, not a personal story. I'm sorry if you interpret my posts that way, but that is absolutely not true and not my intention.

Oh jeez, as I was typing this a thought kept running through my head to start a new thread "What Poster on this Board would you pick to be your StepMomma?" No idea where that came from.

"What Poster on this Board would you pick to be your StepMomma?"

Yay! That's awesome. I know of a few I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, ones that make my SM look like an angel!! At least she doesn't argue like mad about every little thing and constantly say other people are wrong. My biggest issue is now that her health issues (IMO-completely overblown, but whatever) completely take over every situation. Wow, have I got issues or what!!??

;)

And a few of you seem very nice. But I don't think at the wise old age of 30 I'm ready to jump out of the frying pan. LOL.

Of course we all care about statistics, or we should. Just one example - the statistics on the relationship between smoking and lung cancer were the motivation behind a lot of people's quitting. If people didn't care about statistics, everyone would drag up some relative or friend who smoked like a chimney yet lived to ninety, and they would have no motivation to stop (or not start in the first place).

Kathline,

No, I don't think all stepmothers are TOW. I do believe that the majority of divorces, especially in long term marriages, do involve infidelity on the part of one or both partners - and for every cheating husband, there must be a corresponding OW (or occasionally OM) - and, for every cheating wife, there is a corresponding OM (or OW). Of course a lot of these affairs die quickly and do not lead to marriage.

I don't personally know anyone who divorced after a long term marriage where there wasn't infidelity. I have noticed that the majority of SM's on this forum say that their husband's exW cheated on him.

Nivea and Silversword, Please, please pick me as your new stepmomma!!!!!We can talk about boys, clothes and makeup, and then drink Mojitos and talk about life......Aw, dag, we re all not too bad....As BM of an only child, wish I had more kids to commune with, SS s, they are not interested too much....I would be game.....:)

one more drama topic. kathline is right. sigh...

it looks like you didn't understand what kkny is saying. you might be biased against bioparents because you do have issues wiht your biomom and you didn't have much contact with your biodad. your parents weren't there for you in time of need, so you might have biased view about bioparents (especially biomoms) because of that. the point is everyone is biased one way or the other.

Oh, is that what KKNY meant??? Is it KKNY???

First of all, I have issues with my mom. She's an alcoholic. It doesn't mean I think all moms are alcoholic. She cheated on my dad. I don't think all moms cheat on their husbands. She is full of hate and venom over the divorce from my dad. Yeah, I can see where I identify some bio moms in that group, but only those bio moms that sound full of hate and venom. There are lots of bio moms that I admire. My SD's BM's BF's exW is one of them. She's not a SM, she's only a BM.

I didn't have much contact with my dad? Where do you get THAT from? Let's see. My parents were married until I was 13 or 14. I visited my dad occasionally, no set schedule. He married my stepmom when I was 17. It was at that point that my mom didn't want me visiting "That Woman!" and I didn't go to see my dad often after he married my stepmom because it was easier on me (for my relationship with my mom). I was 22 or 23 when my relationship with my stepmom was formed and I saw & spoke to my dad more often. So, yeah I didn't have much contact with my dad for a few years, but what does that have to do with anything?

Of course we all have our biases and opinions based on life experiences and personal beliefs. But, that doesn't mean that I think every bio mom is 'just like my mom'. I may see some of the same characteristics in some bio moms that remind me of my mom, so in that respect, yes I may have strong opinions. That is not the same thing as coming to this forum and just because I am a step mom, I am accused of being TOW. That happened the very first time I posted on GW. I've seen others attacked with it as well, not just me.

well whatever happened it possibly effected your perception of bioparenting, and since you blame your mother for the fact that you didn't see your father (instead of blaiming the father who was supposed to see you and inititate contacts not your mom) it leads to a possible conclusion that you have bias against BMs. And maybe that you have a bias men can be forgiven for everything and they can do no wrong while women are to balme. Also when your SM appeared in your life you started seeing dad again, she acted as a savior of your relationship, hense SMs are the ones that keep things together. Your SD's mother is a source of every problem, never you or her father, always her. etc etc. of course it is all a stretch but I am just showing you that you are not exempt from biases. And yes not seeing a parent for few years will have a major effect on one's life as does a divorce, abandonemenet etc. etc People are biased. You are no different. Simple as that.

What I meant is everyone has biases. It can be based off of our lives or other things. And everyone is entitled to post here. But not to shut down others. I think starting this thread is trying to invalidate others posts.

Too cute Dotz! I'd love to drink mojitos with you. :)

Nivea, do you mind posting the link or web address for the group you started? You may have posted it before in that other thread, but somehow I missed it... Thanks!

Finedreams, when you are done analyzing my life, you might look at the facts. SM came into my life when I was 17. My relationship with her happened when I was in my early 20's. She wasn't a 'savior' to my relationship with my dad. I had a relationship with my dad, although I didn't see him much after he got married because it upset my mom and she made me feel guilty.

Men can do no wrong and women are always to blame??? That is a stretch!!! I've consistently told TOS & KKNY that it's dad's fault for their lack of relationship with their kids. I think your ex is a jerk to all the women in his life by being a womanizer. It makes him a terrible father to leave his wife & kids for another woman without considering how his kids will feel. His kids deal with it, they know that's just how dad is and still love dad, that doesn't make dad a great dad. Yet, TOS and you defend your children's fathers. That's fine. But, how am I biased that men can be forgiven and it's always the womans fault? Yeah right.

and my SD's mom is not a source of every problem. Sure, I complain about her but what do I complain about? Do I complain it's her fault if my husband and I have an argument? Do I complain she's tearing my marriage apart? No, I complain when she makes promises to her daughter and when she breaks the promises, she makes up some excuse that shifts the blame to me or my husband. (usually me) I complain that she lets her daughter do whatever she wants at her house (which is her right) and when her daughter gets hurt and she doesn't want to take her to the doctor because she might have to pay $20, she tells her daughter to tell dad to take her and when SD either forgets or chooses not to tell us she hurt herself, BM calls CPS & tries to say I injured her daughter. Oh, and I complain because she won't pay support for her daughter while I pay everything, including the extra doctor visits and counseling that SD needs because of things BM does. In fact, I spent four hours yesterday evening at urgent care because SD said her finger felt broken & although I could see it was fine, I took her to get checked so BM can't say we are neglecting her daughter. But, no BM is not the cause of all my problems. She causes her daughter a lot of pain, which we have to deal with. Her daughter takes it out on me, which is hard at times.

and KKNY:

"I think starting this thread is trying to invalidate others posts."

No, the starting of this thread is to say EVERYONE has a right to share their experiences, and being a SM now, does not mean any of us stop being a BM or ASC. I'm not trying to shut down others.. but in adult stepchild threads, I have been told that since my experiences are different, I just don't understand what it's like to be an adult stepchild with a terrible step parent. and I say 'sure I do. My SM did (minor) things that if I had reacted differently, would have led to 'bad blood' between us and it could have gotten worse & I could've ended up hating my SM and her hating me' But, since I took a different route and ended up with a good relationship with her, I don't understand the pain others are in. Yes, I do understand a lot about pain. I just happen to think we create a lot of our own pain and suffering. I even know it's true in my life. I see things I do that cause me grief and I try to change them. I don't write here, about all the successes and good things that happen day to day. I come here for the problems and to vent. Pretty sure others do the same. It's a safe place for that so of course, anyone that comes here and reads so many problems in one place might get the impression that step families are screwed up people with piles of garbage and issues. Then, occasionally someone writes about a positive and gets reamed for it. It almost seems as if so many good, thoughtful people that used to post here have left, we've gotten many more and of course, it's pathetic how they each are dragged through the initiation process of being attacked for being a SP. I guess it will always be that way here and while I want to feel sorry to anyone that comes here for advice or support and gets flamed, I really feel sorry for those that have been here, stuck in the same place and mindset, for years.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nivea's Adult Stepchild board

Hey Dotz, can I come too? I pick you! I was thinking either you or Sweeby, but the Mojitos put you over the top!

TOS said:

"No, I don't think all stepmothers are TOW."

If you truly don't assume that all SMs are TOW, then why do you jump to that conclusion as soon as a new poster comes to this board? My very first post here you assumed that I was the reason for FDH's divorce and that I MUST have let him change my personality and that I was a trophy girlfriend.

Ima, from what I've seen, read, and maybe even said myself, it's not that anyone's saying to you that you don't understand the adult stepchild experience... and CERTAINLY not that you should refrain from talking about that, or anything else based on how much or little, or how positive or negative, your own adult stepchild experience was. Just that you yourself have described your adult stepchild experience as relatively good, with ---as you put it---a few "minor" things that may have upset you. So I guess it might be more accurate to say that you may not have had the VERY NEGATIVE adult stepchild experience. Just like I have never had the VERY NEGATIVE bio-mom experience that you have had. Having not experienced that, I couldn't honestly say that I know what that was like for you, because I don't. I would, however, have empathy, and an opinion, and I would feel entitled to express both. I wouldn't say that my opinion should be taken as any MORE valid than anyone else's on the subject of terrible bio-mom relationships, but I would offer it if I felt I had something relevant to say to let others take or leave as they see fit. And I don't see anyone ---adult stepchild or otherwise--- stopping you from sharing your views on ANY subject. Others might not accept them or agree, but all of us are free on here to share our views on any subject, regardless of our experiences. You have just as much a right to have positive feelings toward your SM and that experience as others have a right to have negative ones. And I am glad that you had a relatively good experience with your SM and I hope it's true that the majority of people actually do.

Now I'm going to have to fight these other ladies off of my Dotz and mojitos! I don't wanna share!!!!

I pick Sweeby! She reminds me of my Aunt whom I love dearly!

"I have been told that since my experiences are different, I just don't understand what it's like to be an adult stepchild with a terrible step parent. and I say 'sure I do. My SM did (minor) things"...That's the point, a terrible SM and a SM who did minor things is not the same. You don't understand and it's clear from reading your posts that you don't. It's ok if you don't understand, what's not ok is if you start trying to pretend that the hardships don't exist for those of us who are going through the problems with a truly terrible Step Parent. You act like we are the ones trying to shut down your opinion, when in fact, you are the one doing the shutting down of the opinions that are differnt from yours.

Sweeby, if you are here...you wanna go out for Mojitos??? How about Margaritas???

Nivea, Silversword and Raek...Hop in the car....I m takin you all shopping!!!!! And no generic stuff for you dears, we are doing couture!!!!!!!

Did your SM do terrible things from the moment you met her? In all relationships, it goes back and forth and while I don't discount there are people out there that are terrible from the first moment, it's been my experience that people tend to put their best foot forward in the beginning.

Perhaps my sister would relate to your experiences of a horrible stepmother, better than I do. We had the same stepmother but when my step mom did those 'minor' things that I ignored, my sister blew them into major issues and she engaged in keeping their relationship tense and at times, hostile. She chose to use every little thing to turn it into a bigger thing and she hated my step mom. I'm not saying you did that, but if you ask my sister, she has nothing nice to say about my step mom. Each relationship (and how each person engages in it) is individual. I could have easily saw things as SM trying to "do" something to me, and even now, that may be true. She might have been giving me backhanded insults and digs to piss me off but the way I reacted changed the outcome.

Wooohooo!!! I love you stepmommy Dotz!

It's true, Ima, everyone's an individual with an individual experience based on different levels of sensitivity, different thought patterns, different values, different expectations, differnet moments with other individuals. Who's to say whether your or your sister's experience with the same SM is more 'true' or valid than the other's? Each is very real to both of you. she might think you are in denial. Or she simply could hold certain beliefs more strongly which she felt were more egregiously violated. Or she could just be too touchy or a drama addict. Who could prove any of the above, anyhow? Why can't you both have had equally valid, but different, responses to the same individual? And yes, every relationship is formed from a series of back-and-forth actions, reactions, interactions. Things are rarely ALL one person's fault, I agree with you there. A situation can be more, or less, black-and-white than this, with infinite degrees of gradation. In the more toxic extreme relationships, it's possible for the actions of one party in a relationship to be decidely, consistently more negative and damaging than the other's (the dynamics of abuse)... to the point where you could say the one person is MORE at fault, or at least more RESPONSIBLE for the outcome of the relationship. There's no arguing the stone cold fact that a man who chooses to call his wife the "c" word out of nowhere just because he's drunk is more at fault and responsible for the negative outcome of that relationship, and most anyone would be hard-pressed to say "she must have provoked it somehow". Sometimes people really do behave like jerks without any cause or provocation. It happens sometimes. But in most cases the fault/responsibility is less lopsided and is more evenly shared. But even if 'fault' is shared exactly evenly, it could still be a very upsetting, hurtful and negative situation.

No, I do not jump to the conclusion that all SM's are TOW - but if someone marries/moves in with someone who has just barely been divorced, it is a reasonable assumption. I don't remember the details of your first post, but several posters here have posted vague and contradictory timelines, in an obvious attempt at hiding how quickly they married after either their or their spouse's divorce. If in September someone says, for example, "I have been married for a almost a year," and then later on mentions that they married in May, obviously they are hiding something. You don't forget what date you got married, and I am sure everyone here can count to 12.

TOW,

I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. I think your assumptions are baloney and harsh and completely unfounded. I don't think you or anyone else has the right to make such assumptions/accusations. This is why:

I was married for five years. After one year, I knew I wanted a divorce because of various serious issues. I never should have gotten married, but I was young, and didn't listen/heed the signs.

What did it take? What was I waiting for? I had no ground to stand on. I was afraid. His parents are very influential and wealthy, and I knew that without some sort of proof I may lose custody of my daughter. He had already threatened me with the family lawyers should I choose to leave.

But once I had the proof I needed I was out the door.

I gave up my home, I gave up my belongings. I walked out with my daughter. Primary physical custody, which is nearly impossible to get in my home state.

One month after I filed for divorce I met my DH. I had been finished with my ex for years. But, to him, my DH will always be TOM.

I can see why people would assume. But don't ever, ever, make assumptions on why other people get together and what may be going on in their lives, in their relationships. I never cheated on my husband. Not once, even the slightest, although I had many opportunities.

Once it's over, it's over. And I don't care if the ink is dry. Sometimes a marriage ends years before the papers are signed.

Silver,

I have to disagree. But even accepting your logic, your situation isnt always what happens, and while you were prepared to leave, were there children? Did they have time to adjust?

The short answer is Yes.

When she was dating my Dad and I barely knew her, she screamed at me and pulled my hair. Did I react nicely? No. Would you? If you want to say that is minor, go for it. I don't feel that it is and I doubt that the behaviour my SM displayed is the same as yours.

You are either married or you are not. Period.

And btw, the commonly used abbreviation for theotherside here is TOS.

Some digging in the forum Archives has been enlightening! TOS, you remind me of and ACT SO MUCH like one person I know. My mother. I am deadly serious. You conduct yourself online EXACTLY the way she does, attacking people, finding a target and repeatedly contacting them or in your case, posting @ them even after they've repeatedly indicated that they would like you to leave them be. Your desperation for attention, ANY attention, positive or negative jumps out of your posts at the reader. You don't seem to care how you get that attention here. As far as the way you interact with other people on the forum? Not good. Your three biggest naughties? No Empathy, Accusatory and TOS is 100% right @ all times. Mother interacts exactly the same online and in real life. Do you? I notice a lot of people have asked you in the past what you are doing here. I'm not going to. I already know what you come here for. Your Attention Dose. Your Drama Fix. Your SUPPLY. Sad really. BTW my mother has NPD and no I'm not saying you do or Implying. Its just fascinating that you carry on online Exactly as she does with the same mindset ect. Well it has been said everyone has a twin in the world.
KKNY who from what I've read of her postings is a First wife and Mother to a teen daughter who is involved in a Step situation via her Ex-husband. (From what I've read). You could learn a lot from her about participating in a constructive, intelligent, informed way.

Ima, You need to IGNORE TOS! Anyone who goes to that extent to upset you obviously has an agenda (among other things).
Oh Well! There I've had my Opinion for today. Just like everyone else I have the right to have its everyone has the right to agree, disagree or go "meh" and ignore it.

KKNY,
"Silver,
I have to disagree. But even accepting your logic, your situation isnt always what happens, and while you were prepared to leave, were there children? Did they have time to adjust?"

Read the post again. I mention my daughter several times. And no, she didn't have time to adjust. That takes years, if not a lifetime. Did I take years to tell her "I'm thinking of leaving Daddy, but I have to get my eggs in the basket first so I don't lose you". Um, no. I didn't. How would you have prepared a three year old?

I know that my situation does not cover all situations. But assuming there is another woman/man does not either.

TOS wrote "No, I do not jump to the conclusion that all SM's are TOW - but if someone marries/moves in with someone who has just barely been divorced, it is a reasonable assumption."

I am saying, in some cases it is not reasonable. Not in all, in some. I know there are other women, my ex husband actually had a few! But I don't assume that's the case right off the bat, as I feel TOS does a lot of the time. Not ALL of the time. SOMETIMES. And that's why I wrote "Sometimes a marriage ends years before the papers are signed."

TOS:

The TOW was a freudian slip on my part, obviously! Sorry about that!

"You are either married or you are not. Period."

I disagree. And that's ok too.

Rielle2008, you are 100% right. I've been reading this forum for the past year, and it never fails.

I just don't understand why she continues to subject HERSELF to this forum. Obviously she hasn't gotten over her ex-H leaving her. (Wonder why he did that??? lol) It is also obvious that the ladies on this forum say things that sets off something in TOS that makes her lash out at others like she does. Like these situations unleash unpleasant memories and she can't help but react. So I wonder why she continues to subject herself to the pain. Underneath the harshness, I suspect she is hurting very much. I'm sorry for that. But it's getting really old now.

silversword,

I think kkny meant did your daughter have time to adjust to the divorce before you entered a new relationship.

silver, you are correct when you say "she didn't have time to adjust. That takes years, if not a lifetime."

I think that would apply whether it's adjusting to a divorce or adjusting to a new marriage.. Some kids never seem to adjust to those changes. They can live in denial and hang onto hope regarding a divorce. They can also reject the new marriage. Those feelings can last until they are middle aged or older. [and some ex's never adjust either]

Ima, so just because some children never adjust (how true), your solution is its OK to hop into relationship with someone new the next day. I think that is a guaranteed way to generate lack of respect for both the parent and the new step.

"your solution is its OK to hop into relationship with someone new the next day."

Where the HELL did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth!

what wife and kids did my X leave? My X had similar life story as your DH. he was married once in early 20s to me. had one child. We got peacefully divorced. No one left no one. Then he recently remarried. his 2nd marriage. yes he had a girlfriend in between whom he had a son with. the only difference is that your DH had a child only with his GF, but X also had a kid with his 1st wife (me). other than that is your DH also a womanizer? for being married twice and having GF in between? lol

So Ima, what was the point of this then

"I think that would apply whether it's adjusting to a divorce or adjusting to a new marriage.. Some kids never seem to adjust to those changes. They can live in denial and hang onto hope regarding a divorce. They can also reject the new marriage. Those feelings can last until they are middle aged or older. [and some ex's never adjust either] "

FD, not certain your point, I was only saying that even when a parent has had time, while marriage still intact, to grieve, etc., child may not have.

Where did I say it's okay to hop into a new relationship the next day?

silver said "she didn't have time to adjust. That takes years, if not a lifetime." and I am only agreeing that sometimes kids never adjust to a divorce or remarriage. I disagree that parents should have to wait years (or forever) until the kids 'adjust' because they may never adjust. That is not the same as saying it's okay to hop into a new relationship the next day. Parents should always consider their children's feelings & what's best for the children, but children should not have total control over whether their parents move on and get remarried. Every situation is different, just as every child is different.

But, please don't put YOUR words in MY mouth. If you want the point of something I say & it's not clear, then I am happy to explain myself & my point, all you have to do is ask.

So do you have any rule of thumb or is it OK for a parent to leave and move in with a new friend the next month? Or just the every situation differnt??

Thanks TOS, for explaining what KKNY meant.

KKNY: No, my daughter didn't have time to adjust. She hasn't adjusted to the fact that her father was a drug addict who left drugs where she could have found them. She hasn't adjusted to the fact that he was seeing girls young enough to be his daughter while married to her mother. She hasn't adjusted to the fact that he didn't spend time with her when she was a young child. She hasn't adjusted to the fact that he is a manupulative person who is also bi-polar. I haven't told her any of these things, but someday she will find them out, I'm sure.

But I'm the one who's the bad person for introducing her to someone too fast?

Why are mothers held more accountable than fathers?

If I could have done it different, I would go back and change a lot of things. My point was that seeing someone before the divorce papers are finalized does not make someone TOW or TOM.

How long do you think it should be? Long enough for her to be comfortable with just Mom and resent the intrusion of someone else in her life? Long enough for her to get older and not be able to establish as deep of a relationship?

I'm not saying you're saying these things, or that this is what happens, but there are detriments to both sides. I'm living my life the best way I can, and sometimes I don't make the best choices. But I don't think considering things in black and white, married or not is always applicable. I didn't cheat. He did.

"Why are mothers held more accountable than fathers?"

Mothers may not be more accountable, but the primary parent's actions have a greater impact on the children, and mothers are more often the primary parent, especially when the kids are young.

Every situation IS different. I'd even go as far as saying in every unique situation, if there is more than one child, each will react to or interpret the same facts differently. There is no way to use a 'rule of thumb' to decide when it's okay to get in a new relationship.

In my case, I chose to stay single for a few years because the break up was very emotionally devastating for me. I was probably in denial for a long time and didn't emotionally prepare myself for the break up... my kids on the other hand didn't seem upset at all that we broke up. Looking back now, if I had met someone else & had a relationship, my kids may have been more open to it than when I did finally meet my husband. As silver points out, my kids got comfortable with it being just me and them. They see my husband as an intrusion into their lives. I waited until they were older to start dating, figuring that within a few years, they would be out on their own. One is, the other two will probably be out doing their own thing in two or three more years. But, if they had been 3 or 4 when I became single, it doesn't mean I shouldn't date until they are grown up. I dated when I was emotionally ready... my kids (actually just my boys) refuse to accept that I want someone (a man) in my life. They are 19 & 22, so it's too bad.

"There is no way to use a 'rule of thumb' to decide when it's okay to get in a new relationship."

I completely agree Ima!

There may be no rule of thumb, but I would suggest a minimum. Many SMs here seem to disagree.

"Mothers may not be more accountable, but the primary parent's actions have a greater impact on the children, and mothers are more often the primary parent, especially when the kids are young."

The fact you believe that there is a "primary" parent and a "secondary" one explain the demise of your marriage (besides, according to you and the statistics you love to cite , as a second marriage for your husband, it was already doomed from the start, anyway) and the disengagement of your ex-H from your children.
He was just a "secondary" parent, after all...

A little testy there -- I think we can all agree that in many, if not all, marriages there is a primary caretaker. I think we all know what was meant.

Posted by kkny (My Page) on Fri, Oct 3, 08 at 18:42

"There may be no rule of thumb, but I would suggest a minimum. Many SMs here seem to disagree."

Is there a general minimum, or would different circumstances warrent different lengths of time? I'm asking because you seem to know, and this is still something I don't know.

By the way, do you consider me a SM or a BM? Do you think that BM's feel different than SM's about this kind of thing?

What would be the minimum if the X (male or female) were:

1) Emotionally abusive
2) Physically abusive
3) Deceased

Would it be different if someone found out one day that they were being cheated on and left the next compared to someone who was emotionally and physically disconnected for years?

The rule of thumb I have read is one month for every year of marriage before dating again, but I think it should be double that if there are children.

I still think the children would need time to adjust.