In our state your child can start kindergarten at age 5 you are required by law to enroll them at six..i am wondering if this is what OP means? We have preK here as well through the public schools howver it is income based, so if you make over a cerain amount then you cant send your kid to public preK only to private that you would have to pay for...Our preK is 1/2 day our kindergarden is full day..anyhow that is just how it is where i live..
2 grand a month is a lot of money for child support..heck we are only supposed to get (but never seem to get any lol) 208 per month for SD. Your DH must have a pretty good income for it to be that high..

SO I will just put my two cents in..you just got married two weeks ago, I would take your time with this whole thing, just remember their are two sides to every story, The whole "Mommy" thing and the kids wanting to dote on you so much may not be that they have a horrible home life, They may really want your acceptance, and sense that this is a way to get it, I am sure it is confusing to them being so young. Kids tend to have active imaginations, and I think it is normal for a 6 year old to have the fantasy that she/he did...mine when I was younger was that my dad would pull up in a brand new car and take me to a big house he just bought and we would live there happily ever after...it never happened...but I survived..I think the best route you can take is to be supportive to the little ones, I think they are all too young to not live w/ BM unless there is a case of abuse or neglect, because take this from a fulltime SM (since SD was a toddler) kids need their mamas and you cant replace BM, you can love and nurture and be the best SM in the world but there will always be a void for them if BM is not living w/ them to provise those things as well...
oh one more thing, your still I am sure in the honeymoon phase of things Enjoy:) but eventually that will fade and reality sets in for both adults and kids alike, i am sure the kids are great, but I think it will be a while before you really know the kids..KWIM?

Why does it always have to be the mans fault the relationship falls apart..

I was married for 20 years my ex cheated I CHOSE NOT TO!!! my choice... did my marriage fall apart because of that... NO.. we grew apart.. IT TAKES 2 and sometimes more to ruin a marriage... But its never just one sided....

My husband's ex cheated on him several times, yes about 9 years ago he cheated was he wrong YES, but did that mean you go cheat. ummm NO

side note... we have free pre k here regardless of your income and we have the option of half day or full day (my daughter went to full day which equaled no daycare costs woo hoo). Kindegarten is full day regardless.

mom_of_4,

Your property taxes must be astronomical. Our town can't afford to even offer a late bus, or computer courses in the high school; the next town over is charging most school bus riders $400 a year. Many towns around here don't even offer full day K for children with special needs. How can any town possibly afford full day pre-K - or is it funded by Headstart? But then, I have never heard of full-day Headstart programs, certainly not around here. I did just google preK programs and found that school districts with extremely high rates, like 75%, of free/reduced price lunches are much more likely to offer preK - I presume federally funded. We used to live in a rural location with a lot of poverty, where it was not really a surprise for someone to commit suicide when they lost their job because another would be so difficult to find, but even there "only" about a quarter of the kids qualified.

In any case, what do you do about daycare before 9 and after 3 or during school vacations? After school daycare here, in the schools, is $250 a month, and it is more if you go before school as well. Summer, of course, is not included in that figure.

TOS, you have picked apart every aspect of this post to make the mom a victim expect one little tidbit that stands out in MY mind "She chose to drop the kids off on our porch while we weren't there (mind you, at that time they were 5, 3, and 1, and it wasn't a scheduled visitation day) and proceeded to threaten us with child neglect because of it."

Whay say you about that action? It was dad's fault for not knowing she would show up?

Yes Mom_of_4, same thing here. The pre-k has two sessions, morning and afternoon. Idk about the costs to the county, but it has been this way since I went to school. I double checked with my mom last night, and yes, it was free.

TOS, I just listed SOME of the things that BM has done to my DH. Of course she didn't figure he would leave, but I can't imagine why not. Are you saying my DH was wrong for not sticking around to see what else she would do to him?
Every so often, BM tries to start a fight with DH. When he goes to pick up the kids, she'll block him from leaving, or not let him close the car door. All the while daring him to hit her. She wants him to get in trouble. She runs her mouth a lot, so this is straight from the source. She figures he'd go to jail, then get fired from his job, chain reaction of events. She finally stopped when I started going with him for pick ups and drop offs. Of course the fact that I came along made her mad, but I refuse to let her try to ruin him.

Fiveinall, I'm honestly not trying to be their mom. I let DH do what he does with them. I help him out when needed. I don't take over the "mom" role at all. I try to act like an auntie. I've been in their lives for 2 years now, I love them and vice versa. But I didn't all of a sudden start acting like "mom" after the wedding. I've been reading forums like these since I started dating DH. I wanted to make sure I didn't make the same mistakes that many have made.
I'm not assuming things aren't that great at home. This is what I'm being told. The kids talk to DH, mostly SD6. And they come talk to me. They tell DH how mommy's so mean, she yells too much. They don't like how she speaks about him. They don't like when she talks about me, either. I can't tell you how many times they come over in tears because BM would tell them to stay away from me, tell them I don't like them, tell them daddy loves me more than them. DH and I would try to reassure them that we did indeed love them, but that wasn't the problem. SD6 said that she doesn't like when her mom says things like that because we tell them we love them all the time. She asks why mommy doesn't tell the truth. She'll call DH to talk and ask to speak to me. then I hear BM screaming at her then the phone call disconnects. I'm afraid of PAS taking effect here, so we make sure we get them as much as possible and talk to them as soon as issues come up. They are very young, so of course we are very careful about how we say things. But kids are smart, smarter than we give them credit for. SD6, for example, can read between the lines so well, it's almost scary. I sometimes get nervous when she wants to talk to me, because I know she may ask a question that a six year old shouldn't really know the answer to!
I wish to high heaven I was making this up. The last thing anyone needs is for the kids to have issues with their mother. That would hurt my skiddies the most. Plus, I have such an awesome relationship with my mother (the kids do, too) that I hope they could have the same. I just don't like them being burdened with adult issues.

Um.

In every state out there that allows childcare to be an added expense to child support, the childcare expense is divided proportionately to the parents income. THe custodial parent, who claims the childcare expense, MUST show the non custodial parent his or her tax return to substantiate the cost of the childcare, and the non custodial parent pays his or her percentage of the childcare expense AFTER the tax deduction for the childcare is factored in.

Also, childcare expenses awarded in most states, are only allowed if they are reasonable. If mom is making ten bux an hour, 300 dollars a week wouldnt be reasonable. If mom is making fifty bux an hour, then they would be reasonable, but mom would be paying her proportional share.

I dont think OP is fully informed on this, or else her husband is just agreeing to whatever the ex wife says. I dont know what state the OP is in, and of course that has a lot to do with it. 2000 a month is not a lot, or is quite a bit, depending on what NCP makes, and what the cost of living is in the state.

That's all well and good Kathline, but BM lied about the amount in the first place, puffing up the price to get more money.
Also, they were never married. I live in NYC.

June,
I wasn't trying to dismiss your statement that she's working him over. I'm just trying to show that when you (or anyone) mentions how much the BM is getting in CS it's rarely enough and there will be comments made. And, it's really easy to be taken out of context.

It sounds like she's doing it to be vindictive. That's why I'm saying to document what she does, see if your DH can get the education taken out of the CS equation and paid seperately. That way you're not being taken advantage of and you know the kids are in a good situation.

I think the best thing you can do is work on getting your lives set up in a way that will support the children coming to live with you. If she is dropping the children off alone, unscheduled, the next time it may be prudent to call the police yourselves. I don't advocate getting the children involved with this kind of thing, but a one year old on the porch? This is serious.

I wasn't trying to excuse her behavior either, but give some insight to why she may have overreacted and thrown your husband in jail. Pre and post pregnancy women can be irrational. And if they were going through troubled times, it could make her really unstable.

And, to play devil's advocate, she and your DH chose this life. He chose to have three children with an obviously unstable woman. He chose not to marry her, and he chose not to go after custody when they split up. I'm guessing that while they were not married he was supporting her during the past six years. Where is her education/work possibilities? Probably her job skills are not that high, being so young and being out of the workforce for so long.

I have a few friends from high school who had children early, at 17, 18, 19. Many of them had to live with their parents once the relationship didn't work out. They wanted to party, they were still young. They felt burdened by the huge responsibility of children.

It's not right, and I don't condone it. I just really hope your eyes are open fully and you can see that there was another side to the story before you were involved. Not to hurt your feelings, but your DH had three kids with her.

You wrote "Of course she didn't figure he would leave, but I can't imagine why not. "

Why not? Because he kept having kids. He must have A)felt she was an appropriate mother, and B)loved her enough to keep doing it. Once I knew my husband was not a good man I did everything in my power not to have another kid with him. Maybe your DH took longer to figure that out, it does happen. For me, one year was too long to figure it out, I just got lucky it didn't take longer. But for six years + he was comfortable enough with who she is to keep attaching himself to her via kids.

I know it's hard as a SM. I was an engaged to be SM for nearly three years and am a SM now. I think it's harmful to you to not consider that your DH played as big a role as the BM in how this family drama played out. You wrote "you make your bed, so now you have to lie in it". I agree, I lie in my bed every day!! And wish I had made better choices. But your DH created this situation as well, not just the BM is responsible for how this all came down. And you married a man you knew had a lot of baggage, three kids and a crazy, manipulative, dangerous ex-girlfriend.

I do wish you the best, and I hope there is a good solution for you and the kids. You have my sympathy and I think you're on the right track to providing a good home for your "skiddies".

A number of things about this thread, and her posts in another thread, have made me suspicious - starting with the claim that the mother only wanted custody for the money, moving into the convoluted story about not enrolling them in a half day pre-K program because that would have somehow saved on daycare costs, throwing in the discredited "PAS," (I don't know why anyone would even want to be associated with that after the guy who "invented" the syndrome killed himself after his belief that pedophilia was normal and acceptable became well known), and then losing more credibility with her admission on another thread that her husband does not actually pay all the child support he is mandated to pay. I suspect that there is way more to the story than she is letting on.

"Of course she didn't figure he would leave, but I can't imagine why not. Are you saying my DH was wrong for not sticking around to see what else she would do to him?"

I don't understand this comment. You said he left her in March with a two month old baby. She had him arrested in July, three months after he left. What do you mean "what else she would do to him" - assuming you're talking about having him arrested, that didn't happen until after he left.

I can not think of a single good reason for leaving your wife with a newborn. Even if your wife were suffering from postnatal psychosis and were homicidal, no loving father would leave if it meant leaving his children behind.

There are certain things a real man just doesn't do - and leaving a wife who is pregnant or who has recently given birth is one of them.

It may not be the case here, but there are many abused women who retract their allegations because they are afraid that the abuser will become more violent, or because they unwisely still want him back. Generally speaking, if someone is accused of abuse they are slapped with a restraining order, not thrown in jail for two days - not unless there is a lot of evidence of serious wrongdoing.

Of course you are right. DH kicks himself everyday for staying and continuing to have children with this person. (I'd like to kick him too!) My DH was very naive and believed she would change. We all know how that works out. I do not excuse his part in this mess at all. But he stepped up and tried to make things run smoothly. he never flaked out on his responsibility to his kids. He had been trying to work with her for the kids and instead she makes things difficult. Because of that he contacts her only through text message and only about getting the kids. She wants him to talk to her, but it ends up being a screaming match.
I'm well aware of the fact that all this happened before me. I hope it didn't come off like I was trying to paint my DH in this saintly light. He was quite stupid, lol. But I do give him credit for trying to make things as easy on his kids as possible. I don't have an issue with anything except for the fact that she likes to make things as difficult as possible and refuses to move on. I'm lucky in that the kids are sincerely good little people.
Okay fine, they have kids together, but you cannot treat a person they way she has treated him and expect them to come back for more. Kids or not. She does not see how her actions contributed to any of this.
I like your points on empathy. My mom always tells me to step outside of myself and see things through the eyes of others. I would totally empathize with BM had she not been so evil about the situation. There are ways to handle situations and she is not thinking about her kids while trying to get at us. I'm a big girl, I can handle BM's wrath. But the kids just don't need to go through this.

In New York State, child support is determined by income shares, which means the income of BOTH parents is considered in setting a child support award.

It also means that both the NCP and the CP are required to exchange income tax returns yearly, upon request of the other parent.

If it is true that the CP is getting 1200 dollars per month from your husband for child care she is not using, then that will be evident on the income tax form. I would obtain a copy of her tax return, and file for a downward modification of the child support amount, based on the fact that there is an error in the child care amount.

YOu dont even need a lawyer to file for a modification, and if your facts are correct, the childcare portion of the child support would most likely be changed.

Probably your husband agreed at the time to give her the 1200 per month for childcare, because either he didnt want to argue with her, or because he didnt understand completely how it is factored, ie, a percentage based on their income split, the federal tax deduction being factored in, etc.

I dont know what your husband makes, or his ex wife, but 1200 per month for just your husbands share, since it should be minus her share and minus the tax deduction, seems excessive.

The funny part is, if the kids were attending the daycare, then we'd have no problem.
I didn't even think of taxes, thank you for pointing that out Kathline. I don't know all that much about CS and the calculations, just trying to learn as I go. BM claimed she doesn't work, then she claimed she only worked like 10 hours a week at $8/hr. The judge ordered BM to get a better job, but never followed up with that.

As for TOS and the CS, let's just clear the air now, shall we?
BM first went for CS about a year ago. Before that, DH was paying her rent, all household bills, money for food, etc. Well, he THOUGHT he was paying for that stuff, he was just giving her money. Turns out, she wasn't paying so she got evicted. She expected him to pay for her to get a new place. He wasn't going to do that, he had been giving her money and she refused to account for it.
So the judge orders $500/ week for CS. Fine. About six months after that, DH proposes, BM goes nuts. She immediately ran to file an increase in CS. When DH was served with the paperwork, it said he had to be at court by 2pm. Turns out that was an error, because the hearing started at 9am. The judge (different from the first) assumed he was skipping out on the hearing, so he awarded BM the amount she asked for, which was about $800/week. She had ONE receipt (which included the oldest girl, who was already in Kindergarten and didn't need daycare)from the ONE day they attended the daycare. The judge never saw DH's pay stubs or income statements. That new amount was retroactive, so now he's thousands in arrears. We can appeal the decision, so we hire a lawyer to do so. The decision was to uphold the ORIGINAL ORDER, saying there was no just cause to lower the amount. But it was the MODIFIED order that was the issue! And that was never addressed. So we have to appeal again, and are in the process of doing so.
No, we don't pay the modified amount, that would leave $23 in Dh's pocket. We have rent, food, bills, not to mention the stuff that WE need for the kids when they come every weekend. BM refuses to send them with anything, so we keep own own supply of stuff. They grow like weeds, so that's an expensive upkeep. Without daycare, the CS drops to $280/ week (from the original $500). Beyond the modification, we have no issues with CS, it's completely necessary.

Well, go ahead TOS. Time to find one tiny point and argue it to the death, just to make sure it all fits in your twisted thinking.

June,

You are getting no real help from your lawyer. If there was an original child support order in place, the only arrears that could have been ordered , were from the date of the filing for modification. They CANNOT order a retro amount beyond that date, if there was an order in place.

I would make sure I had documents in order to show that BM isnt using the daycare she claims, and a copy of both tax returns, and I would hire another lawyer, or alternatively, I would file my own case with Child SupporT Enforcment ( yes, they can help the NCP file to modify as well). This time, since your husband seemed to be in the dark about how the process works, you can do some research and be ready for what gets thrown at you.

I am a firm believer that NCP should pay child support,a nd the guidelines are there for a reason. BUt it really bothers me when someone takes advantage of those guidelines and lies, and/or the child support bureaucracy screws up.

If BM cant establish a clear pattern of paying for the childcare , via tax returns, then she wont be awarded that kind of money for childcare, particularly since she makes very little. This is worth fighting about.

More and more I am thinking that your husband, before he married you, did the typical guy head in the sand thing, hoping if he ignored it, it would go away. It bit him in the you know what, but its not too late to fix it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL, Kathline, you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!
DH had believed in the past that if he didn't make too many waves, things would be okay. He and BM had planned on getting married, but "relationship issues" would always come up. It wasn't until she finally had him put in jail that his eyes opened fully. He always tells me that that incident was God telling him to get out of that situation.

I'm printing out your post Kathline. I had no idea that we can file with Child Support Enforcement. This is so helpful, you have no idea.
You know what? The lawyer we used was the sister-in-law of my best friend/ college roommate. She was all talk, saying how simple this would be, it's so obvious, yadda yadda. After we got the decision back, she has refused our phone calls and won't even talk to us. My friend tried calling her, avoids her calls also. Great lawyer, huh?

June,
A clarification please? "About six months after that, DH proposes, BM goes nuts." Do you mean that he proposed marriage to her and she went nuts, or that he is saying that about six months after that she went nuts? Thanks :0
"DH kicks himself everyday for staying and continuing to have children with this person. (I'd like to kick him too!) My DH was very naive and believed she would change."
Hey, no kicking! It's painful! I know, because I've been doing it for the last six years! LOL!
"Because of that he contacts her only through text message and only about getting the kids. She wants him to talk to her, but it ends up being a screaming match."
I understand. I had to get it written into our mediation papers that we would only contact each other by text or voicemail or email (my personal favorite, because then there's an easily tracked written record of the insanity) because my ex went so crazy for a while. But have faith; it may get easier as time goes by and the hurt lessens.
"Okay fine, they have kids together, but you cannot treat a person they way she has treated him and expect them to come back for more. Kids or not."
True, but I don't believe that she suddenly turned into a crazy woman after her third child. If he believed she would change that meant that she had issues, and he kept coming back/staying. I'm not being critical of him, kudos for trying, but there's your reason for her to expect she can keep doing it and he will stay steady. Rationally, (and not to rationalize insane behavior, but) it's worked for six years, why shouldn't it keep working?
I agree that the kids don't need to go through it and shouldn't. It's tragic that they are involved in adult issues and used as pawns.
TOS wrote: "It may not be the case here, but there are many abused women who retract their allegations because they are afraid that the abuser will become more violent, or because they unwisely still want him back. Generally speaking, if someone is accused of abuse they are slapped with a restraining order, not thrown in jail for two days - not unless there is a lot of evidence of serious wrongdoing."

Did I miss something? Was he thrown in jail for suspected abuse/accused of abuse?

Hi there,

You definitely need a better lawyer. A court can order a retroactive increase in child support - but it sounds like the facts didn't support the order in this case. I've been to family court often enough to know that the judges are overwhelmed and they often made nonsensical decisions. You need someone very sharp on your team.

It sounds like you're doing a great job given your current situation. My sense is that the BM is very immature and self absorbed. I doubt that she's going to change much so prepare yourself for a long ride.

Your ace card here might be the BM's family. They sound reasonable. I'd stay on good terms with them. It just may be the BM exits the picture at some point and it'll be good to have them on your side.

Hi Silversword,

-Six months after the CS hearing, DH proposed to me. BM found out, went nuts, ran to court.

-You are right, it was 6 years of dysfunction. Thankfully one of them finally woke up and ended the craziness. I shudder to think how those kids would have been affected had that continued.

-Yes, BM had my DH falsely jailed for abuse. She (with encouragement from her friends) filed charges against him for "hitting her". Had a restraining order, the works. The case was dismissed due to conflicting statements (from HER "witnesses" and not enough evidence. BM finally admitted to her dad that she lied about the whole thing. She just wanted to teach him a lesson.

Plus, to TOS's statement, I just finished stating earlier that BM would routinely try to get DH to hit her when he would go to pick up the kids. She would try to provoke him, block him from leaving push herself on him, all to try to get him to hit her so she can call the cops. It only stopped when I started coming along for drop offs and pick ups. Can't claim abuse when there's a witness. Does that sound like the actions of a woman who is afraid? Why would you try to provoke your "abuser"?

Thank you stepmomof3, thanks to forums like these, I know just how bad it can get. You ladies have been helping me before we even met!
My main goals are to let my skids know they are cared for, and to keep hubby and family happy.
Sometimes I get this wild hair about going to BM and asking for peace. We've never actually spoken to each other, she just makes nasty comments about me. I know I should just leave things be, and I will. But I sometimes would just rather all of us be able to get along and work together.
Okay! There's my fantasy for today.

"More and more I am thinking that your husband, before he married you, did the typical guy head in the sand thing, hoping if he ignored it, it would go away."

"DH had believed in the past that if he didn't make too many waves, things would be okay."

Talking about my FDH right here! His philiosophy is "if I stand very still, they won't see me". LOL! Seems like he can do that with everyone but me. Somehow when I ask for something, he grows the biggest pair of you-know-whats and either tells me no or procrastinates until it's a non-issue. But BM or FSD ask for something, no matter what it costs him, he's making every concession to not "make waves". Heck, I wish I had just half that amount of sway over him.

June

We are in a child support mess also... The one thing you have to do is document everything... My husband and his ex have had their son equally since 3 weeks after their divorce, but she wants child support from him, she makes 3xs what he makes, we pay for all medical, dental, co-pays and insurance, all haircuts, school supplies, sports, the list goes on... But yet she wants money, she hired an attorney he found out she was lying and he withdrew from the case, So she sent my husband text messages asking him to forgive her for CHEATING, and to give her another chance, YES WE WERE MARRIED AT THE TIME.... he said no way in hell was he going back to that mess, so she hired another attorney, we are doing all of this ourselves (we can not afford an attorney) so we go back to court friday, she has lied on all court papers, so I have done a lot of research, and I got her bank statements tax returns and pay stubs, hopefully the judge will see through her lies... DO NOT GIVE UP.... you can get all the info on your handy dandy computer.... GOOD LUCK!!!!!

Well, now DH rather not make ME upset over BM. That was rocky road there, but I stuck to my guns and told him the deal. At first, he would jump everytime she HINTED at something about the kids. Now it's all about me and the kids, and I'm so grateful that he saw the light on that issue.

We have a thick folder full of documents for court. After the CS was modified to that ridiculous amount, BM called to laugh at DH and he hung up on her. BM called DH later that night. He didn't answer, but she left a message. She was crying, telling him that she just wanted to be a family, and wanted them to resume their "loving" relationship. She said she would drop the CS order (right) if he would just come back home and be "nice" to her (which means he has to do whatever she wants him to do.) She cried that she didn't understand how he could move on, and if he loved his kids he'd leave me and go back to her. She threatened to continue to attack his pockets if he didn't do what she wanted. Manipulation, much?
Basically, I feel the modified CS was a ploy to drain him for every dime he had, so he'd be FORCED to come back to her. That I wouldn't stay around if he was broke. Kinda like "It's cheaper to keep her" way of thinking.
:) So much fun dealing with BM!

*LMAO!*
"Go back for a second helping of smack-down pie???? I would pass."
Ashley, that totally cracked me up! I'm still doing yucky admin work for the outreach program and needed a good mood-lightener on my break from balancing the books.

Also, welcome JGS!
Since you've been lurking, you probably know us all pretty well by now, but just be aware that you shouldn't take any trolly comments to heart. Most of us are very nice!
Hope to keep hearing from you, and good luck with your SKs moderately negligent BM. My FSS's BM "pawns him off" a lot too (although his safety as physical well-being is important to her, so she wouldn't leave him on the porch!) so I know some of your frustrations on that topic!

Thank you Ceph. I know that you are close to my age, so it's nice having someone to relate to. COngrats on your engagement, by the way!
This forum helps me so much during the day at work. Since they pay me to basically surf the web, I don't have much going on at work. This forum is something to look forward to during the day.

After reading all the posts, I still don't see anything about why your H left his GF at that particular time, when she had a newborn and two toddlers to care for. What, exactly, did she do BEFORE he left that would have prompted him to leave her at that time, a time when she most needed his help and emotional support?

"BM claimed she doesn't work, then she claimed she only worked like 10 hours a week at $8/hr. The judge ordered BM to get a better job, but never followed up with that."

In my state, the courts are not allowed to impute income to a CP with a child under six.

This makes no sense - if she works 10 hours a week at $8 an hour, no court is going to believe child care costs of $300 a week are reasonable. It doesn't make sense to work at all if you are earning that little, not when you have three kids. Actually it doesn't usually make financial sense to work when you have 3 preschoolers/babies, unless you have a high paying job or a career from which you can't take a break.

OMG, TOS this is my entire point. IT MAKES NO SENSE. You are a single mother of 3, you damn sure better get up and make sure you can provide for your kids. They aren't together anymore, so what makes you think he should support HER? His obligation is to his kids, not her. And it should be the same for BM. Her obligation is to the kids. She should NOT be sitting around waiting for someone to take care of her, not as a mother. DH did his part, and always will. Those kids have TWO parents, so BOTH parents should step up and provide.
DH has been picking up his kids every single weekend, starting from the time they broke up, way before they established a visitation order. He would get the during the week sometimes also, if his schedule allowed. It's not like DH is only a "paycheck dad", he's hands-on. He payed every household expense for her. So it isn't "poor lil BM", because she had it made before she ruined it for herself.
The judge did tell her that it was unacceptable to make that little when you have 3 kids. She turned on the waterworks, the judge never bought up the issue again.

Look, they weren't a healthy couple at all. You just don't want to see that because of your own issues. But don't you DARE sit there and have the nerve to say he doesn't seem like much of a man, because you know NOTHING about what this MAN does and how much he sacrifices for his kids. He's certainly more of a man than your ex-H, so watch what you say.

I did notice that you didn't answer my question about why he left his GF with a newborn infant.

I don't think you understood my point about her working - if she is not able to earn a salary that is high enough to justify day care for three kids, it makes no sense for her to work. There are not a lot of jobs that pay well enough to justify paying child care for three little children.

Yes, if you decide to have three kids of four and under with a woman, you SHOULD be responsible for supporting her. SHE SHOULD BE RECEIVING ALIMONY OR THE EQUIVALENT. She didn't have those children all by herself. You don't get to suddenly stop supporting your SAHM or mostly SAHM wife/GF just because you choose to leave. A primary reason she is only earning $8 an hour is because she has spent a good part of the last six years mostly out of the workforce. They had three kids close together, and it is not practical to raise three preschoolers with both parents working full-time. The most sensible thing to do is for the parent with the higher earning potential to work.

Those kids have TWO parents, so BOTH parents should step up and provide.

Exactly.

It takes 2 people to have the kids BOTH of them should be paying for them... SHE DOESNT DESERVE ALIMONY JUST BECAUSE SHE HAS 3 KIDS UNDER 6. She can go to college and get free daycare.. there are programs she can use, Maybe we should all just lay down and spread our legs and have kids so someone else can support us... If I recall reading the first post she doent pay any household bills anyway... I have 3 words for women who think they deserve it just because..

BITTER BITTER BITTER

Yes, she does deserve alimony, unless he was the SAHF, which I gather he was not. It is stupid for anyone, the parents or the government, to pay more for daycare than the parent can earn. He wasn't the one who was up several times a night to nurse a little baby (at least I hope she was breastfeeding), and then had to wake up at six to take care of a 2 year old and a 4 year old. Taking care of three kids under 5 is a full-time job in itself, and and probably a lot harder work than whatever career the father is employed in. Taking care of little children is a lot harder than any job I have ever held - at least I get a lunch break at work. The problem of course is that as a single parent, you have to work all day and then come home and fit spending time with your children/household tasks/making dinner/ into two or three hours.

If the father didn't want to support his GF when the three children were young, he shouldn't have fathered them, and he certainly shouldn't have fathered three children in four years.

I was a stay at home mom while my kids were young I didnt work until they were in school full time, my girls are 3 1/2 years apart I want kids to love not to breed... 3 kids in 4 years is hard but she chose it to.. TOS why do you always pick everything apart... I am a bio mom and a step mom and I work plus I have had custody FULL custody of my ex-s nieces son for 4 years, (with issues) and I am dealing with a BITTER BM.

Being BITTER takes to much energy.. I was married for 20 years my ex pays child support I REFUSED ALIMONY.. ITS NOT HIS RESPONSABILITY TO SUPPORT ME JUST HELP WITH THE KIDS... THATS MY CHOICE.... I KNOW SOME WOMEN NEED THE ALIMONY, I have my 15 year old all the time her dad comes by for a visit maybe an hour 2 times a week He lives 15 minutes away... My daughter has spent maybe 5 nights with him in 2 years... I was married but I was a single PARENT for 18 years...

You just supported my point - You didn't work when your children were young, and you didn't have three under 5. I worked when some of mine were young, and I was a SAHM with the others. I know that raising little ones is not easy, and I never had three under 5, though I was close. How can you demand that this woman get a job, when you were able to stay home when your children were young? Because she was unfortunate enough to be in a relationship with a guy who turned out to be a jerk and who left her with a newborn?

How is it relevant that you refused alimony? - your kids weren't little when you divorced.

The OP's story doesn't make sense to me - and she is avoiding answering questions that I have asked more than once. No, I don't believe her story - maybe she believes it, maybe not, but I think there is a lot more going on than what she has said. I suspect that her husband didn't actually leave his GF "around March" - unless July is around March. (Or, perhaps it was "a month or two" - it depends on which of the OP's posts you read). I think there was a reason he ended up in jail; I think the mother of his children declined to press charges as all too often women whose SO's assault them do. Normally if someone is accused of assault they don't end up in jail unless there is evidence - the accuser may get a RO against them, but they are not jailed - and why for two days? Why couldn't he make bail? None of this adds up. I think the OP is in for a rude awakening.

TOS, you are the bitterest person I have ever come across. HE LEFT BECAUSE THINGS WERE BAD....HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY THIS??? Do me a favor and read the ENTIRE post before opening your mouth. It seems you get stuck on irrelevant, stupid little points that mean NOTHING.

DH moved out in March. The time between March and July, he alternated between staying at a friend's house and BM's house. They were trying to work things out. Whenever he wasn't at the house, he took the kids every weekend. So YES, he did get up at 3, 4, 5, 6 o'clock in the morning. He isn't a deadbeat. He never abandoned his children, he left HER. Get it straight, TOS.
I'M in for a rude awakening???? How is that? Just because you apparently aren't smart enough to understand what I'm saying doesn't mean that I, MYSELF don't know what's going on. Stop projecting your bitter, angry outlook on everyone else.
I'm beginning to understand more and more why your ex-H left you. Making perfect sense to me.

Also TOS, STOP BADMOUTHING MY HUSBAND. Don't get mad because you see yourself in that selfish, vindictive pile of bones called BM. He woke up and saw the light and realized that the realtionship WASN'T HEALTHY, he left. He knew it wasn't good for the kids. He's a good father.

My DH always has time for his kids. He always makes sure they are taken care of. If I remember correctly, didn't your ex-H just up and leave, then allowed his new wife to ban the kids from his house? Sounds like a real winner there.
Whatever happened, that was over TWO YEARS AGO. I'm here now, we are married, and that's what it is. I'd really appreciate if you didn't respond to anymore of my posts, you give the most unproductive comments ever and I'm tired of your negativity.

Ok, so he didn't actually leave until July, a few days before you met him. It is debatable that he had actually "left" since he had been going back and forth for awhile.

If they are "irrelevant, stupid little points that mean nothing," why did you include them in your posts? It is the stupid little points that tend to trip people up when they are dissembling.

THe fact that he was JAILED is hardly an irrelevant, stupid little point. If there was no evidence, it is highly unlikely that he would have been jailed.

What does whether I am bitter or not have to do with anything? Your situation has almost nothing in common with mine - my exH did not leave with with a newborn, I did not have him thrown in jail, and you are younger than some of my children. If one of my children were to get involved with a man with a similar story, I would advise them to be very careful and not believe everything he said either.

I am tenacious (some might even say stubborn :) ), and I am analytical. I think those are good things. It drives me nuts when things don't add up or don't make sense - it used to annoy my best friend in college to no end when I wouldn't just accept some concept in physics until I wrestled with it until it made sense.

I didn't see your most recent post until after I had posted. I wanted to point out that I don't have much in common with the biological mother either, who is also probably young enough to be my child. I do feel sorry for her.

I am fully aware, as I am sure you are, that "relationship wasn't healthy" often means it was violent....

And "don't respond to my posts" often means
"you are hitting too close to the mark."

Is that so? Really it means that you are going to see what you want to see from my posts, so explaining things to you means is a waste of time. Funny how no one else is seeing what you see.
Yes it was violent. Didn't I say that already?? I sure do believe I did. I stated that it got physical at times. Jeeze, it's sooooooo annoying to have to spell things out.

Him being jailed was dismissed. BM admitted she lied. The case and restraining order was dropped. The judge got on her for wasting the court's time. I really don't see what else needs to be said.

What really gets me is that you are putting down my husband for being young and dumb. We ALL were young and dumb. I'm probably still there, I'm only 25. They have BOTH made mistakes, the only difference is BM continues to act the same without realizing what she is doing to her kids. Now he has learned not to respond to her antics. He will not engage in an argument. She gets her CS on time and he is there every weekend for his kids. He tried for six years to make it work. In the end, they were not compatible. That's all. So why must he be a jerk? If you knew him, you'd know that "jerk" is the last word anyone who knows him would use. When he announced he was getting married, every last one of his friends and family expressed immense relief that he didn't marry BM. It was obvious to everyone how messed up the relationship was.
FOR THEIR RELATIONSHIP, I offer no excuses for either of them. But from when I met him in July, all he tried to do was be the best father he could be. I wouldn't BE with him if I didn't see that in him. I want an awesome dad for my future child, and he totally fits the bill.

I'm so sorry he didn't follow the Breakup Rule Book point by point. I'm sorry you feel that matters.

"I'm so sorry he didn't follow the Breakup Rule Book point by point. I'm sorry you feel that matters."

Actually, it does matter -- It matters a lot.
As you implied, there are rules of conduct in relationships, and some of the most important are:

- If you are still in a relationship in any way, you shouldn't start a new relationship. Even if the old relationship is bad, not healthy, on it's last legs, trying to work things out, so over!, never much to begin with, on and off, or negotiating the details of the end. The old relationship needs to be ended clearly and decisively before the new relationship starts. Otherwise, you end up with a mess of blame, like BM blaming YOU for the breakup. In her mind, the old relationship wasn't over when your hubby started the new one with you. In her mind, they were still "trying to work things out" and he was still spending time at her house. Is it possible Hubby and she would have got back together if he hadn't met you? Probably. So she's got good reason to blame you. And she will blame you for a long, long time. To anyone who will listen. And she's got some facts to back it up with, so she'll get support from her audience, further justifying her anger, resentment and bitterness.

- Don't hit. This is such a simple rule! Don't hit first. Don't hit back. Don't push, shove, kick, scratch, block the door, throw stuff, smash stuff, slash stuff, 'key' stuff, throw it out the window -- Quite simply, no physical violence toward a spouse or children, or against spouse's or marital property. Ever. That goes for men and women. Even if provoked. (It's almost always provoked.) And getting involved with someone who gets violent when provoked is a foolish and dangerous thing to do.

I hope things go well for you June - I really do.
But your marriage is starting with some real challenges. It'll take a lot of maturity to get through them.

No, that's not correct. The relationship was over in July. Period. I'm not responsible for what SHE thought or continues to think. I owe her nothing.
I've asked DH a number of times would he go back to her if I wasn't around, and the answer was a huge, resounding NO. We didn't actually start dating until September of that year. Heck, we never even held hands until that point. I MET Dh in July, not "we started dating in July". We were just friends. He hadn't stayed with her since jail incident, he was living with a friend until he got an apartment of his own.

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure BM knew it was over. DH and I work for the same company, and BM sent food and flowers to the office on a number of occasions IN JULY. The flowers included a note which asked him to forgive her (never said for what) and to try to work things out because she still wants to be with him. He told her NO, he had had enough. Mind you, this was AFTER he got out of jail (around the 5th), about a week after. It wasn't because of me. She didn't know about me until around the end of September into October. She knew what she did and she was trying to kiss up to him. Again, not my fault it didn't work.

Plus, those first months, she had him jumping through hoops for her. I had enough at one point, and told him that if he wanted to continue to do personal stuff (having nothing to do with the kids) for her, he could do it without me around. I told him maybe he needed to go back to her and work things out. I told him that I loved him, but maybe us not being together is for the best. About 20 minutes after I hung up the phone, he was at my house begging me not to do this, and how he would stop doing things for her and just focus on me and his kids.
From that moment on, he was totally devoted to me. He had the chance to leave and go back. He didn't. Okay, did my part, the rest isn't my problem. She can go kick rocks with her "good reasons" because he had plenty of reasons to LEAVE. Our friends and family know this, so whatever she says she's more than welcome to say it. People can read BS easily.

As to the hitting......THEY BOTH MADE MISTAKES. I keep saying that. I know that, he knows that, and BM would still be trying to physically provoke him and get him into trouble if I wasn't around. It wasn't right, never said it was.

And thank you, my marriage is doing beautifully. I've had an awesome relationship with my DH. These events happened 2 years ago. All I was doing was introducing myself and giving some background. I have no challenges besides finding another name for the kids to call me besides mommy. I don't even see why this thread has gone on for so long.

I agree things could have been done better. Couldnt they always? ArenÂt we on the Stepfamily forum? ThatÂs a pretty good indicator that many of us didnÂt make the best decision the first time around. Well, give June a chance. Hopefully she didnÂt make a mistake here. Hopefully their relationship started on a good enough ground that theyÂll make it just fine.

I agree, relationships should be resolved before a new one starts. But when is a relationship resolved? My X and I will never be resolved, we will be in a relationship until we die, because we have a child together. It's not the same, but children, rather than marriage, are forever! It sure would have saved me some grief if I had waited longer. But my DH and I are stronger because weÂve overcome a lot together in that time. And here we are. I can go all the way back to my first relationship and find issues with my decisions. Each time is a learning experience. There is no way I would have gone back to my husband once I filed for divorce. For me, I divorced him the night I said "I want a divorce". The rest was the issue of the courts. It had nothing to do with the status of our relationship. BTW, isnÂt it a little strange that it takes ½ hour at the county clerk office to be married and takes so long to get divorced? It takes longer to get out of something bad than to make one of the biggest decisions of your life. Sometimes I think it should take at least a year to get married, to prevent people like me from doing something stupid!

And, in this case of DH and BM were not married, so what is the indicator to an outsider that it is truly over? Him saying itÂs over isnÂt enough, him moving out isnÂt enough. He should have taken out an ad in the paper, like a notice to perform work. (tongue in cheek)

Thank you Silversword. I am so NOT saying that everything ended perfectly. But I know I was NOT the OW. Being the OW isn't my thing at all. I've been there in a previous relationship and I never want that for myself again.

I don't believe I should hold my DH's past against him. It wouldn't be fair for him to hold my past against me, either. Remember I was the OW in the past. Does that mean that I haven't grown up and realized that was wrong? Not at all, I understand what I did and I apologized sincerely to the man's wife for causing her pain. (Amazingly, she accepted it! She was so gracious and kind, it made me feel like even MORE of an a$$. But I will never forget her. She made me strive to be a better person.) I never meant to hurt anyone, I was just so selfish at that point that "anyone" never entered my mind. DH has grown leaps and bounds since I met him. He is more assertive, he has learned to ignore BM's antics, and he stands up for himself as a dad. We both have become better people, and we try to keep growing. Nobody's perfect.

I understand the points being made regarding BM. I can imagine how she felt knowing her SO had moved on. But I know in my heart he was right for me, and he was AVAILABLE. I can't live my life based on how a perfect stranger was feeling. With the exception of how she treats the kids, I understand why she acts the way she does. I never respond to anything she says. I never insult her (to the kids or BM). I don't give her any ammunition. She doesn't need any since she continues to say stuff, but it's all good.

If I wasn't able to look beyond his past, I wouldn't be in this awesome relationship with my best friend. I wouldn't have the honor of watching my skiddies grow up. I wouldn't give my family up for anything.

OK here we go again

TOS why is it always the guys fault? We all know why you are bitter, But sometimes it is better that people do not remin together.. THEY WERE NOT MARRIED, NO COURT WILL ORDER HER ALIMONY FOR ONLY BEING TOGETHER FOR 6 YEARS... What if he died HOW WOULD SHE TAKE CARE OF THE KIDS... HELLO WE ARE ADULTS WHEN YOU HAVE 3 KIDS UNDER 5 MAKE SURE YOU CAN SUPPORT THEM YOURSELF JUST IN CASE HUBBY DIES OR VICE VERSA... IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY...

TOS Im sorry your husband cheated on you and you cant get over it, but people who live in the past stay in the past and its NOT HEALTHY FOR YOUR KIDS.....

I just spent a half hour reading all of this and although there is a lot to ingest here I am most disturbed by nighttime prayers including a prayer that Daddy comes home. Are you saying that this is still going on?

BM in our situation has done something similar. SS9 told me that BM made a request at their church that they pray that she is able to regain custody. She was taking us BACK into court at the time...the judge looked at her horrible past (including not even seeing the children for over 2 years) and denied her request...but still...Apparently the stepchildren go to church with her EOW when they visit her and EOW the minister makes a public announcement to pray that BM's babies get to come home to her soon...I'm sure the church doesn't know the sordid details...like BM leaving the kids with a babysitter, saying she will be back in 30 minutes and not returning for 16 hours or leaving the kids alone (the youngest was 3 and the eldest was 8) while she went to bars and out with boyfriends all weekend...leaving them with no food OR telephone to call for help (she would disconnect and hide the phones and demand that they stay in the house.) What bothers me most is the emotional damage hearing this has to be on my stepchildren. Church is good. God is good. The minister is good. And the minister is praying to God that we get to come home to be with BM...

My DH tried to talk to BM about this but she only became irate and told him not to tell her what to do.

I would be most upset over this issue than any others listed in this thread. Has your DH talked to her about not playing games like this with the kids?

cat38,

It is actually very likely that a court would order spousal support in cases where there is a CP with three very young children.

Both parents in a family with three young children should have life insurance to protect the family in the event of the death of one of the parents.

TOS, they'd have to be able to prove that she was accostomed to a "standard of living" that he provided. And in some states there are no provisions for spousal support. In my home state, there is no alimony. Just child support.

I dont think its possible to get alimony if you were never married, even in states that grant alimony. Most states no longer do, although some states will grant temporary alimony for retraining purposes. Its extremely rare for a woman to get long term alimony, and only a few states will even consider it. Its reserved for long term marriages where one partner was not in the workforce for a long time.

and yet, people here have posted that Dads SO (they have no children togethor), and has signed a cohabitation agreement, may inherit ahead of my DD.

If they had been married, this would have been relevant in New York:

"If the person receiving support is the primary caretaker of unemancipated children, the Court must also consider the need, if any, of the parent to be with the children. If, due to young age or ill-health, the ability of the custodial parent to work outside of the home is limited, the Court must determine if Child Support alone is sufficient to enable that person to meet his or her reasonable expenses, as well as those of the children. If not, an additional award of maintenance is a proper remedy."

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_york/nyart29

I have heard of cases in New York where support of one party was awarded out side of marriage.

TOS, hearing of cases where it's happened does not make it "very likely" that she would be awarded spousal support.

But I do agree with your statement that "Both parents in a family with three young children should have life insurance to protect the family in the event of the death of one of the parents."

Oh, I had a conversation with DH about life insurance. We are looking and comparing prices.

Momof5angels, DH has not said anything to BM regarding the nightly prayers. He has told her that he would not ever be coming back to her, but I don't think she believes him. When SD6 told DH about the nightly prayers, she also said that DH can't go back to her mom because he is married to me and that his home is here (our house). SD6 (so far) has showed that she is capable of forming her own opinions and she doesn't take what we say at face value. She always asks questions to make sure she understands what is going on. That being said, I do worry about the younger two children. I've told DH that BM saying thoses kinds of things isn't good for the kids. He agreed, but to my knowledge hasn't addressed the issue with BM. You know, standard guy tactics. But he does speak to the kids about it, and they seem to get it.

Alimony is a dead issue, isn't it? Didn't happen, won't happen.