TOS, I think it depends on the family members in question. I have four siblings. I live near only one of them and I am quite close to her and her children.

My oldest sister used to live nearby, but it was problematic. She is married to a man I don't like, who is verbally abusive to her and a compulsive gambler. She constantly tried to get me to take sides, something I never do with any relationship. She is a taker, and was always on the lookout for a handout. I have an excellent credit history, while hers is lousy, but she tried to use my name to get credit and loans, etc. She moved away about 18 months ago and I much prefer it. I still talk to her, but not as much.

On the other hand, I would love nothing more than to be closer in proximity to my youngest sister. We're very close, talk on the phone daily and see each other three to five times a year.

My remaining sibling lives several states away and is disconnected from the family, although I would like a closer relationship.

My dad is slowly re-establishing relationships that have been broken by my stepmother. Nevertheless, he has grandchildren he hasn't seen in several years and has made no effort to change that. I also don't understand it, but then I couldn't understand how he could turn his back on his family so abruptly in the first place.

My family went from being very close to one another to being estranged from our father because of his lack of resolve and my stepmother's influence. I think when all the family members get along well, living nearby is a good thing. But when people won't observe boundaries, butt their noses into private things or try to control others, a little more distance is nice. Think of "Everybody Loves Raymond." After two months of having that set of in-laws living across the street, I would have been in the first U-Haul headed to the other coast.

Yes, I would LOVE to have family close by, but as it is, I must travel several hours in order to see my sister and several more in addition to see my aging uncle--the last two members of MY family. We live here because his children are in this town, still in school, but once they graduate and get out on their own, we will leave.

Still, I wish that I HAD some family to live close to.

TOS. In a perfect world, yes it would be great if families stayed connected by living nearby each other. All of my family live at least an hour away. Including my son. That having been said. It depends on the relationships and the people in those relationships respecting privacy and boundries. Otherwise, it can make for alot of unhappiness.

I would love to have family close by. Through various jobs my siblings and I have all ended up in different cities.

I would love it if my adult kids could just drop in, instead of having to plan a journey to get here. I want them always to consider this their home, and they will always have a key if the wish. On the other hand, I wouldn't drop in on them without calling because their home is not mine, but it would be wonderful if I could see them every couple of days instead of every couple of months or a few times a year.

I guess I don't get the whole "boundary/privacy" thing, when it comes to your kids. I feel no need to have "boundaries," whatever they are, beyond knocking on the bathroom door if it is closed. I help my kids with their taxes; they know how much I earn. They know my email password, and I think some of them know some of my PIN's.

My kids have always been really good at sharing their toys, their clothes, etc. with each other. They lend each other cash practically on a daily basis.

I dont get it either. I always tell people that once you have been through childbirth, you understand not having privacy. I think there is a difference between the parent/child relathionship and the child/parent relationship (until your mom gets so old, that you become the mom). This is part of being the mom.

I would love it if my all my kids (step and bio) were to end up living in the Chicagoland area when they are grown with their own families. It would be lovely to be able to see them all on a regular basis.

My parents and siblings used to live nearby, until my sister went off to med school in North Carolina, met her husband, and decided to stay there. My brother ended up taking a job in Raleigh-Durham, and my parents, having enjoyed my sister's coastal beach house, decided to retire out that way. I miss them all.

That being said, if my children end up living nearby, I expect them to always call first before dropping in. Why? Because, as an adult, I once dropped in on my parents, unannounced and with my own housekey, and caught them chasing each other around the house, naked. Very traumatizing for me. (Just the memory is making me giggle.)

I've never had a family but did marry into one, albeit, a broken one. My SD would like nothing better than to have her father and I living around the corner and minding the kids. Her children getting to know her father and getting to know me. In reality we're a twenty-one hour flight away and I don't see it changing. I'm uncomfortable with the role of 'grand-ma' and have insisted her children never call me that, after all, that role belongs to someone else. Instead, they know me as "Aldra" and when they come to visit me next year in America, I am hoping that I will be able to show them the excitement I have always felt for the land in which I now live. T.O.S. as I have stated before, I have never had a family and will confess to the times when I have wanted nothing more. But the wanting comes from a need and the need is something only I can address.

All the best,
Aldra

TOS: Just wondering if you are in an intimate relationship with another adult? It seems to me that's when boundaries and privacy become important. Maybe you just haven't experienced this in life yet. My son has a girlfriend and roommates. I cann assure you that he would not be happy if I just showed up at his apartment uninvited or without givin him some notice.
Susan

As I said, there is difference between being a parent and being a child in a relationship. My DD doesnt want me in her room wihtout knocking. So I knock.

I did live at home til I married, though I had been totally on my own throughout college and dental school (had athletic and academic scholarships for undergrad, GSLs for dental.) My brother has lived there on and off, and he's 4.5 years older than me. The difference is what type of 'kid' you are? I was the helper, the one on whom my parents could trust and count on. My brother uses them as a grocery store and whines if they ever ask one thing of him. To him, my parents, though always having struggled to be middle class, are the ATM machine. He is not appreciative of them. My parents have fought over this. Mom is the screamer, but brother knows if he weathers the storm, he'll get what he wants. Dad is calm, but sick of bailing out brother w/ $ all the time and sick of brother's poor parenting of my DNs. So, Mom thinks Dad has something against brother and they quarrel - nothing earth-shattering, but it's still a stressor that my parents don't need and they are both his BIOparents! Imagine if one were the 'outsider' Sparent....

My SKids, too, are users. Sorry, but they are. I want people in my life who are not users (the types who take advantage, not drugs.) I do not want users in my home, going through my things, etc.

I have no boundaries w/ my DNs (raised as mine for years) or my parents, and certainly not w/ my own children, though I've tried to teach the children what's appropriate and not appropriate. But, my DH would be uncomfortable to come home and find my mother, father, or brother showering in our shower, don't you agree? Given all the bathrooms we have in the house and the 'openness' of ours, there's just no need to step into our bathroom - and why would someone other than DH or I, or maybe our little boys want to? So, when his DD did that, I was taken aback. After my April hospitalization when I was napping in MY room w/ my sons, and she barged in, I was also taken aback. Had someone in my family done that, I could have yelled, "Get out!" LOL. But, there would have been a comfort zone that if I really did snap at someone in my family, we have that unconditional love thing going for us, so we'd be OK. W/ SD, it's a different story. The fact that she took my clothes w/o asking and I only found them when I had to finish her laundry, also made me uncomfortable. I'm a size 6, she's at least a 12, so I have no idea why she wanted to squeeze into my things.

So, while I do want to always have my family close by and not having to call before coming over, I don't feel the same way about my skids. Maybe it's the way they've treated me in the past, the way they treat my house/kitchen, or whatever. But, I'm a little upset when I have to clean up after them while I'm not upset if I have to clean up after someone in my family - who has always been there for me, cleaned up after me, etc. While my family has always treated my DH w/ far more love and respect than his adult children ever have, I'm sure he wouldn't be comfortable w/ constant drop-ins, either.

As you know, we have three youngsters to think about. Company in the house can cause them to get all wired up - and that's OK in some cases, but not in others (bedtime during school, ie.)

Maybe some people are just more comfortable w/ their own family dropping in all the time? Maybe it depends on the history. As someone said above, maybe it's having an intimate relationship w/ someone that suddenly makes one feel that they would like a little privacy, respect, etc.

I think w/ anyone, friend, family, whatever, if they treat you well and your relationship is mutually beneficial, then you're happy to have them drop in a vice versa.

Dana

My sister, brother and I all grew up assuming we would move away from home. That's what my mother and father had done, and that's what their parents had done. And that's what we did. We all get along and genuinely like each other, but we never expected to remain especially close emotionally or geographically as adults.

Dana, you raise really good points about our how our level of comfort differs relative to our relationships. I was appalled when we went on vacation and came home to fin SS in our bed. His own bed was across the hall in his own room. It made me feel somehow violated.
This is a very interesting and eye opening site and forum. I am glad I took the day off from work to do this:) I don't feel so alone anymore.

Susan,

When DH and I first married, I was changing in my bathroom - the master bathroom, and SS walked in on me! It was a very old house (that we knocked down to build ours) and the locks didn't work. But, why on earth would you charge into a master bedroom, knowing your father just remarried, and proceed to enter the bathroom? Even the old house had numerous bathrooms - maybe 5 that were usable, and one that was uninhabitable. But, this wasn't 'their' family house or anything that they were used to. It was MY house that I never planned to move into as I wanted to renovate. Financially, we couldn't do what I wanted to do right off the bat, so we lived there a couple of years before beginning our dream house.

I think we have the same SS...I agree, I'd have felt violated, too, to find him in MY bed! Did your DH find a problem w/ that? Again, it's probably just a little different being his son and all, but I try to be respectful of my DNs giving my DH his space, etc, but he has never made any attempt to do the same that I am aware of. I mean, if you had raised this SS from a very young age, I guess it would be one thing, but it sounds weird to me.

Tell SS hello for me - and to start paying his GSL, lol.

Dana

scaruso,

I am not dating now, and won't at least until my youngest is grown, but I was in an intimate relationship (aka marriage) for most of my adult life.

As kkny said, as a parent, I have virtually no need for privacy when it comes to my children. I can't imagine expecting them to call before they came home. I don't care if they sleep in my bed, wear my clothes, look at my email or tax return, or eat the food in the refrigerator.

It's one thing to have your child walk in on Mom & Dad having sex.
It's something very different to have your child (or your significant other's child) walk in on you and your BF having sex.

Neither one is fun, but one is worse than the other.

I have no problems w/ my own kids, either. You and your ex were the parents of these kids and had unconditional love. My parents have no problems w/ me and I have none w/ them. But, throw in a person who married into this and it gets touchy - all depending on the situation, the treatment received, etc.

I wonder just how accomodating the BMs here would be w/ someone else's children wearing their clothes, barging in on them in their bedrooms, their bathrooms, etc, coming over unannounced and raiding the frig, thumbing through their mail, sleeping in their bed, showering in their shower, etc. It's so easy to say that it wouldn't bother them, but one day, ladies, you just might date again - could even, gasp, remarry. Odds are, he could have a child or two - call me then and let me know if it still isn't just a tad intrusive - esp. after this child has treated you less than kindly...and let me know how great it is that he's still supporting this 'kid' at 25 or 30 or more yrs. of age 'cause the kid just doesn't want to work or go to school! I promise - it gets OLD and fast, esp. when you're hitting the pavement w/o fail on a regular basis. Let me know how it feels to watch the DDs of this man waltz off for manicures and pedicures weekly as part of routine maintenance, despite having no job, and the less than cordial treatment they've showed you. Then tell me honestly that he/she/they will be moving in next door and let me see the welcome party you throw them!

It is SO easy to judge. Who really has a problem w/ their kids in their own bed? But add someone else's that you haven't raised or something and it just gets weird and unnatural. If you were the mother, it wouldn't be, but you aren't - and they'll remind you of that at every turn.

D

The reason why everyone wants their family to be around is -
when it comes time to POW WOW,there are enough people to pig outtogether!or is it Hawaii Lua??
Other than that,I dont see why we need our parents,siblings,in laws ,uncles,aunts around,they are nosy,gossipy and invade your privacy,not to mention they may ask you for money some day.

Dana,

Which is why the whole stepfamily thing does not work, except in rare instances. There are a few cases where the stepparent and the stepchildren happen to hit it off, and where everybody involved is really low maintenance, but that seems to be very uncommon. And this is also one more reason why divorce should be avoided in almost all cases when there are children involved.

I decided a long time ago that I would not remarry or even date while I had children at home, and I will likely not do so even when they are all adults, even though my kids who are adults so far are very independent. At least I don't have to worry about the additional complications of half-siblings, because I, my ex-husband, and his current wife are all way too old.

Well, TOS, you can't always pick and choose with whom you fall in love. I don't think your ex's mistakes should suddenly condemn you to a life w/o a life partner. It seems as though you really enjoyed being half of a partnership, so I hate to see you give up on that. Your attitude can make or break your kids' attitude towards someone new and I'd like to think that they'd want too see you happy and fulfilled w/ someone who meets your needs as they grow up and aren't at home all the time.

In my situation, I erred in not surrounding myself w/ DH's kids when we dated. The gap widened - I had once gotten along great w/ them at the office (not a lot of exposure to them), but when their mother turned bitter, she poisoned their minds w/ her lies. So, if I hadn't decided to stay away on DH's weekends w/ them (during our dating, not marriage), I'd have either seen them more and liked it, or maybe not - then I wouldn't be here today. I always felt that he needed his time w/ them alone, w/o the distraction or discomfort of me around, so he could mend the alienation brought on by his ex.

My skids were always selfish and spoiled, I believe. I chalked it up to typical teenaged stuff (The Gimme Pigs, I once heard this coined as), figured they grow up and grow out of it, etc. As Cawfe said to me once, at least I know what NOT to do - should we ever come into money again, lol.

Regardless, I honestly don't know if things could have been wonderful and easy had their mother not lied to them. I guess I'm glad DH never told them the truth and that it did eventually come from her, but I don't know how he bit his tongue - maybe my first glimpse of his refusal to lay it all on the table that I viewed as taking the high road was just him not standing up to his kids. I didn't envy his position - afraid to lose them more, make their mother look bad as she deserved, etc.

I will say that you've always felt the kids would be angry later if the spouse who was cheated on didn't level w/ the kids. That did not happen here. The kids were not angry at all w/ their father for his failure to disclose the real reason behind the divorce. They were also not angry w/ their mother, for some reason. They said, "Oh well, we don't really want to know about all of that..." Nor, to my knowledge, were they angry w/ her for her lies - just kind of, "Well, let's move on and not talk about any of that..." Gotta love those who are completely in the wrong, don't ask for forgiveness and think the past is ancient history!

D

My DD has voiced her opinons (which are hers, trust me) of disrespect for her father. BTW, one of her friends, in same situation, has same opinion. Disrespect for dad and sm/gf. Lack of respect -- lack of trust.

I think most teenagers who know the trust have the same reaction. Perhaps, Dana, your situation is unusual, or the facts are in question. As I have said before, when a man tells a woman, his marriage is dead, his wife ignores him (or my favorite new one, is having an internet affair), the facts may be in question.

I think that you need to give your children wings to soar. I love my kids, but I want them to grow up and become whatever they dream. I want them to be happy and if that means they move to Hawaii and teach scuba diving, then I will support them b/c it won't be about me or what I want. It will be their time and it will be what they want. In the meantime, I won't stop living out my dreams. I'll keep working for whatever I hold in my heart.

Please tell me what facts exactly are in question? Maybe I can clear it all up for you or would like the X's number to check it all out yourself? W/ her 'holier-than-thou' attitude these days, I'm confident she'd be honest with you. Years ago, maybe you'd have been buddies.

What I see is that most kids spend far more time w/ their mothers than their fathers, in a normal nuclear family. Moms do the running, dads are working. Therefore, the mother is the most influential on their young minds. The mother is the parent with whom the children are more sympathetic. When mom paints the 'poor me' picture, the kids are emotionally taxed.

Perhaps if my DH's ex's bf had NOT dumped her after DH moved out she'd have never needed a scapegoat. Perhaps if she watched my DH wallow in self-pity, become a hermit, and be run out of business by all of her antics, she would have some sick sense of satisfaction. She was jealous that the practice didn't fold, jealous that DH moved on. There she was, alone by her own doing, and not about to let her kids know the truth. She knew about my then-fiance - saw me all the time w/ him on weekends. I ran into her and the children on many occasions at the movie theatre. She wasn't even cordial to me THEN, let alone the following year when DH and I started dating. She was angered, or so I heard, that I didn't leave the practice when we were in a delicate position financially. I'm not a job-hopper, esp. at this level, and patients were still coming in despite her harrassment of the staff and attempts to have a number of 'mutual friend' patients stop being treated by DH. I wasn't sure what her aim was there - just hated him as she admitted to the kids (when she told them she had had an affair.)

She resented the fact that we began dating and were happy and successful. PERIOD. Anger, bitterness, and the like are just ugly emotions.

My Skids did not realize the tennis coach was the man w/ whom their mom was intimate. Sadly, she had always included this man in their outings to the movies, bowling, etc. throughout the marriage to DH. So, when he continued to be a fixture in their lives, until he dumped her and then moved away, it was par for the course. DH worked long hours, tennis coach was over for dinner after tennis lessons, etc. In the summer, she, the coach, and the three kids were a 'family' while DH worked, I guess. I did see them when out w/ my DNs on my day off, but never dreamed she'd be interested in the coach - he was OK from a distance, but up close, rather sloppy in appearance. DH is immaculate.

I have one final thing to add about your 'theories.' My best friend from dental school and I once had a discussion when one of our classmates parent's cheated on the other and the marriage ended. She said, "I don't know about you, but I think if my dad ever cheated, I'd never be able to forgive him. But, if my mom did, I think I'd want to hear her reasons and would probably justify what she did!" I agreed. The logic makes no sense, but we BOTH felt that way - we are both very close to our mothers but had/have (her dad passed away since then) wonderful, hard-working fathers. So, I imagine if she and I both felt that way, others do, too. It's just a shame that some women use their closeness to their children to turn those children against people they, themselves, do not like.

I have a very difficult g-mother and my skids w/ whom I've had issues, to say the least. My kids LOVE all of them. I can rest at night. I've done my job. None of these are dangerous in any way, just people I do not particularly care for, but I won't let my ill feelings sour my boys' loving and generous nature. I can look myself in the mirror at the end of the day and not be embarrassed. And, it would be VERY easy to sway them into thinking the way I feel deep down inside. Of that, I'm certain.

D

Dana,

I have listened to so much advice from SMs here, like yours as to wait to get married, which I did, and get a professional degree, which I did. My X still left me. My DD knows what happened.

Come back in 10 years and see what you think of my "theories" as you put it.

Dana,

I have listened to so much advice from SMs here, like yours as to wait to get married, which I did, and get a professional degree, which I did. My X still left me. My DD knows what happened.

Come back in 10 years and see what you think of some my "theories" as you put it and your posts. I was more arrogant when I was younger also.

The pass word thing is not a good idea. My Sis stayed with her son and his wife until their new home was vacated. She knew her daughter's e-mail pass word. She told me herself that she went through their drawers and looked all of their bills. When she moved away, she told me things she could not have known unless she was reading her daughter in law's email. I emailed her son and and asked him if his mom, my Sis, knew his wife's password. He said, "yes". I went, "well, umm" and he said, "should I change it?" I said, "not sure, but I would just in case". I think that's terrible, some people have no conscience at all. In case you all don't know it, anyone who has your password can go on line and read your mail and you will never know it. I feel very strongly about this. I don't say anything in an email that wouldn't let my husband read, but we need some privacy.

I am not aware of any advice you have EVER sought out here. Seems like some of you are just experts on everything, waiting to jump in whether it's appropriate or not, maybe even itching to jump all over a SM simply because she's a second wife.

I strongly believe, and I don't know you IRL but bet I can venture a guess, that your DD's feelings for her father are largely the result of your obvious distaste for the man. I don't disagree w/ how you feel about him, just that I don't believe in making your thoughts known to her - she IS an extension of him, whether you like it or not, and any slight you send his way, does impact her and her self-esteem. You can cite reason after reason as to why your DD doesn't care for him - say that HE has caused this gap to widen, etc. While it may be true to some extent, I think you could have done a lot for her emotional well-being by digging down deep and pulling out a few words of comfort rather than something to the effect that your ex left you both.

As for waiting til 30ish to marry and having the ability to support yourself, well, good for you! A lousy situation could have turned downright devastating on EVERY level had you not been an accomplished, successful woman in her own right.

I am far from the arrogant one here, kk. I strongly beg to differ on that. Good Lord, the way you eagerly attack most SMs, esp. Cawfe, at every turn is simply appalling. You keep your words to a minimum, but you get your point across loud and clear.

I still await the answer to my question as to what facts I gave that are in question.

My DDs feelings are her own, trust me. Why is it that some assume that the mom has absolute influence over a child, if the result is what the SM doesnt want.

My apologies, as to suggesting anything re your situation. But is is anoying here how some people assume that everything their DH told them was the truth, etc.

"Well, TOS, you can't always pick and choose with whom you fall in love."

Well, you can certainly minimize the chance of falling in love if you don't date. It's not like some guy on a white horse is going to ride up to my front door.

I know for a fact that my children would have been angry if I had tried to hide their father's adultery. As I have said before, one of them was upset because I didn't let her know as soon as I suspected anything. Another child said that the worse thing parents can do to their children is to lie to them, including lying by omission.

If you knew someone you thought was dangerous or a bad influence on your children such as a neighbor or a cousin, wouldn't you let your children know that? Would you actually want them to befriend this person? How is an OW/OM any different?

It is perfectly possible to love someone in spite of them having done something terribly hurtful or even something unforgivable. Some, though probably not all, of my children love their father. Heck, I love their father.

BTW, I think you did the right thing by staying out of their father's visitations.

KK - I completely agree about just believing a man's word about anything as gospel. I do have quite a bit of knowledge about DH's ex from our former office manager and the tons of patients who showed me letters she wrote to them. Many of our patients are also friends, many were invited to our wedding, our children's baptisms, etc. I believe it was the same w/ DH and his ex, so she had MANY addresses and sadly, painted a very tainted picture of him.

When we went through our awful spell, I think I mentioned here that I understood her affair to some degree - not to defend it at all. I was joking, for the most part. But, he shuts down in a crisis - just when women want to talk, he's unavailable, and I assume he was worse w/ her having the love issue not as strong.

I've seen a few posts here, can't recall right off the bat any, that I thought, "Are you SURE he's telling you the truth?"

Personally, my father is and my g-fathers both were incredible men. But, ironically, I don't trust men - trust me on that. I've never been abused or anything, but I don't take a lot at face value - the part of me that's Italian, maybe, lol. Or, just watched too many con artist type of men on TV...

I do think the BM has more influence over a child - esp. if she has custody. I guess it's whether there's a divorce or not, actually. It's not that I didn't like the outcome of my situation, just that it was truly unfair to all of us. I wish the X had found the Lord a few years prior, though her devotion has come largely at the expense of the children whom she has no time for anymore. Maybe she's just letting them grow up or something. My mother and I are VERY close - talk multiple times/day and see each other almost daily. It's great, so it's hard to comprehend not having that between a woman and two DDs. I guess everyone's different and I should accept that, but I definitely have a bad habit of expecting people to act the way in which I would act. It never works out or has worked out - in employees, roommates, etc, so you think I'd learn my lesson about that.

TOS - Again, I am sorry your children were angry and I think it's nice that part of you still loves your ex. After all, a part of him was very good, and I'm sure you see that in your children. I can honestly say, though, that I'd forgive my mom for an affair but would hold a huge grudge if Dad stepped out. I don't believe either has or would, and both have sacrificed. But, I've heard Mom's sacrifices voiced more and have been around her more, watched her anguish over the treatment by g-ma (MIL), watched her knock herself out more - Dad did it all too, but was at his warehouse and he's not a complainer. So, maybe I'm holding that against him, lol.

Dana

Vista, thanks for the "Are you SURE he's telling you the truth"

maybe the only people complaining here are the people who are stuck holding up the people who dont pull their own weight.