Hi, there

This man is not going to change.

I'm not saying that is bad, but you either have to accept this family as a package deal, or not at all.

I don't know how to advise you, but what you have seen is a preview of things to come.

One suggestion is to have money taken out of your check and put into savings BEFORE you put your check into a joint savings account.

If you can live with this, then marry the man (and his daughter). If you can't, then don't.

Also, don't think that this will end when she is an adult.
I can tell you from personal experience that it won't.

xoxox

Personally, in your case, I would have more than one account. I would have a joint account that BOTH of you contributed equally to to pay expenses like the mortgage, utilities, cars, etc., and then each of you should have a personal account that you can use at your own discretion. He should pay all of those expenses for his daughter out of his discretionary account.

Any extras for you and your fiancee such as vacations, whatever, should come from the joint account. If there are not enough funds in the joint account to pay for what you want, either one of you will then have the choice of whether or not you want to cover the shortfall in order to have that particular thing--knowing full well that if you do it, it is a CHOICE and no one should be made to feel unappreciated or incapable because they didn't contribute or contributed less.

"My concern over having the one account is that he will make decisions to use it to pay for things for his daughter that I feel that his ex should be involved in and asked to contribute to."

Based on what you've written, it's a certainty. And a man who views things that way will have a heck of a hard time being comfortable if his own standard of living (thanks to your paycheck) is higher than his daughter's, and by extension, his Ex. How can he live in a gracious home while she lives in a modest one? How can he drive a nice new car while she doesn't have one at all? So if you can't resolve this, you could be signing up to support two households.

When DH and I married, I made a lot more than he made, but his child support obligations were relatively small. But unlike your boyfriend, he did not feel the need to do a whole lot more. Even so, I was prepared to pay for his kids to go to college. (But they weren't prepared to buckle down for 4 more years.) As it was, we bought each a car (modest, used) and paid for a few years of trade school for each. But what's key for us is that DH and I were always on the same page. No one gave DH any handouts and he always earned his own way. He wanted his kids to do the same.

Definitely, get this very serious issue resolved before you move forward.
And if there was ever a case that called for one, this is it: Pre-Nup.

I agree with the advice given OP, but someone help me out. Maybe my memory is failing, but havent I read earlier posts where SM has less money than dad advising all money should be combined, that that is what marriage means, marriage must come first, trust,e tc.

From todays NYTimes, on an article on divorce and house values

Economists are familiar with this phenomenon. Even though divorce rates are declining over all, as far back as 1977 the economist Gary Becker showed that couples experiencing any unexpected, drastic rise in net worth are at risk of divorce

Noting that 75 percent of men and more than 70 percent of women remarry within 15 years of a divorce, he found that divorced men with higher earnings have the greatest likelihood of remarrying

I'm in a similar boat - also a professional woman, good credit, etc. We married (both dentists) and all assets are in my name. However, DH and I have been in couseling as I was about to leave after ten years due to his constant support of his adult children. They want for nothing and if we don't have money for bare necessities, too bad. The therapist has helped us a great deal and is pushing for one account. I'm not convinced. Her point is that I can see everything - but he writes stuff for the skids off of our business acct. too, and w/ three little boys at home, I don't have time to go through it w/ a fine toothed comb.

I had it out w/ him and yelled that $.50 of every dollar he forks over is MINE!

Be sure you want that arrangement, or even more of your hard earned money going towards the lifestyle he feels his DD should live in.

Now, he doesn't make bad money, but he needs to firm up w/ the ex and I see major resistance from her if it appears you're the reason for tightening the budget and if she's just all too comfortable w/ being a taker. His CS needs to be formulated on his income. I'm not saying that he can't pick up the tab for things outside of CS and it's unrealistic to think that won't happen. But, we've had MAJOR issues w/ three cars for three kids (who never treated me all that well) over and over as they're now in their mid twenties. And, three cell phones for these same adults. I cringe to think of weddings for the DDs...just ask Southern Summer who has certainly walked this path longer than I have.

If summer day camp bothers you now, you will not want to stick around for the teenaged years. There's so much I would have done differently. At least your bf is being honest as my DH was not - or maybe didn't mean to be dishonest, but I never dreamed I'd be supporting three adults by this stage in their lives.

Your bf makes a nice point about the future car - that you should be supportive of what's important to one another. However, where is he supporting anything of importance to you? Seems like he could grow accustomed to you picking up the slack for "you as a couple" while he works to support his DD. I felt that way w/ my DH on more than one occasion. Iron it all out now. You may grow very fond of the girl and hopefully there will be no poisoning of her mind by the mother. However, it doesn't always work that relationships improve w/ time, right Southern?

If you grow to love her, you will want to be supportive assuming she is respectful and admirable in her endeavors and behavior. Your bf's view on fatherhood is to be commended, but it should not become your expense, unless you willingly accept it in the future, to support the two of you so he can devote his entire paycheck to her...

All the best,
Dana

Equalizing the standard of living is one of the stated goals of child support in my state. In cases where that is actually enforced, it could mean the the father would have income imputed to him; at the very least, it could mean that most of his income could be considered disposable and available for child support.

If combined you are going to be making close to $200,000 a year, how could braces or college possibly be a problem?

If he is getting any financial aid for private school (is it really private school, as in $30,000 a year, or is it parochial school?), marrying you could destroy his and his exW's chances of getting aid. It is also going to destroy their chances of financial aid for college at most private colleges, since the majority of good private colleges will definitely consider all his income to be disposable. If you are not willing to pay for the majority of her college and private school expenses, it is unfair for you to marry him and prevent the girl from getting financial aid. It doesn't matter if you don't think private colleges and private schools should take your income into account; the fact of the matter is that they do. Someone with an income of $60,000 or even $100,000 can get financial aid for a private college; but if the income is three times that he will not be able to.

Thanks to all of the feedback and comments and sharing your own experiences.

A couple clarifications and answers: BF does not pay any alimony. He has a specified amount of CS but instead of paying ex, he pays for the other things mentioned (school is catholic school, so not the $30k type of school), which ends up well over CS.

His "motto" is that he does these things because making sure that bills are paid for is the right thing to do, no matter who ends up paying for it. That being said, there have been times when ex has asked him for money for daughter, and he will only pay half because of other expenses that month.

BF and ex seem to have a decent working relationship - since the divorce, no return visits to court (once threatened by the ex for CS, who backed off after BF points out that he already contributes way more than ordered to). I've seen a few arguments over who's paying and who has daughter on what weekend, but this has been pretty rare. After reading about some other horror stories, I am thankful that they are reasonable with each other, but maybe this is because he doesn't give her much to argue about. As far as I know, she doesn't pay rent (now living with her parents), and her childcare consists of food, toys, clothes, school supplies.

Combined income, we do have very high potential, so it's not so much the affording of things as it is that the way he approaches the financial aspect, I feel like he has expectations that together we (and I will be a substantial part of that) make decisions to be providers, and that these decisions are about us, and have nothing to do with ex. Yes, I see that we should support each other in our financial needs. He likes to bring up my school loans (about $100,000), and that he is very happy to help me with those, but I feel that in our situation, it's really me who will be taking care of my stuff AND his stuff.

I realize that making the decision to move forward with BF means that no matter what we had talked about previously, I will end up providing financial support for his daughter. I just worry that I'll end up with bills ("because it's the right thing to do") while ex won't have to worry about them.

"I just worry that I'll end up with bills ("because it's the right thing to do") while ex won't have to worry about them."

Yes, you will.

& not only will ex not have to worry, your husband will not have to worry either.

You will be the only one worrying, because you'll never know if the money you put in your account is still there.

Read some of what Dana's going through, & read this from Dana:

"Your bf's view on fatherhood is to be commended, but it should not become your expense, unless you willingly accept it in the future, to support the two of you so he can devote his entire paycheck to her..."

& Dana's the most mild-mannered person on this forum.

If you want to pursue the discussion with your fiance further, vivian has excellent suggestions.

I wish you the best.

Normally, the NCP is expected to pay half of medical insurance, extracurricular activities, tuition, etc., in addition to child support. In my state, an income of $60,000 would result in child support of $15,000 for one child, adjusted downward a bit depending on how much more than $20,000+daycare his exW earns. (And daycare would include anything she might pay her parents to take care of her daughter). Does one-half of what he pays for his daughter's activities (not counting whatever he pays while she is visiting him) actually exceed $15,000?

It is quite possible that his exW has moved back in with her parents to save money, not because she wants to. Most adults with kids don't actually want to live with their parents (at least unless they live on the beach with six bathrooms and a pool). Are you absolutely sure she isn't paying her parents anything? My kids certainly contributed financially to the household when they were living at home and working.

If he has court ordered child support and is not paying it, he could be in big trouble if she decides to take him back to court. Does he have any written proof that she has agreed to allow him to pay her half of the tuition in lieu of child support? And paying for birthday parties etc. just isn't going to cut it with the court.

I think until you have children it can be difficult to comprehend the costs. And I think that everything other than food and shelter for a middle class family is not an extra. And I think CPs can have a tough time.

I understand where you are coming from. I make twice what my hubby makes, and sometimes I feel like I am supporting two families. It bugs me when my hubby starts to say things like I want to buy beds for the boys for her (exw) house. I work hard for my money as does he just because ex chooses to only work two maybe three days a week and lives with mom does not mean we should have to furnish her house ... she could just as easily get a better job or work more hours to buy her own beds for her kids... My hubby tends to like to take care of everyone and is not good at budgeting money... so it becomes very frustrating very quickly.

However, because of this we have three checking accounts and two savings. We have one for all of the bills, one for his spending money and one for mine. Both of our names are on all three accounts and I go online and transfer money from one to the other so everything works out equally. We have a saving account for us and one for the kids. Prior to that I felt like I was paying all of the bills and taking care of all of the necessities and he was only taking care of his kids and his wants ... we had a long talk and the system we came up with is better all around... he just spends what is in his account and I take care of the rest but we both contribute.

I still have issues when he wants to buy things (like the beds) because in my opinion the kids need new beds at our house why should we furnish hers because she chooses not to work... but you cant really change what she is so why bother fighting...

Ahhh, yes my house sounds like something out of the movies...just don't forget the nights I'm on the computer all night, unable to sleep, worried about tomorrow's bills...worried I'll lose everything I sacrificed so much for...praying our ins. settlement arrives before I end my misery!

Worrywart #2, Dana

Welcome Worrywart, All I can give you is my personal financial experience with stepchildren. The stepchildren were SD 18 yrs old and SS 14 yrs old when I came into the picture. I too had a excellent finacial situation. I put myself through school, worked all my life, a good job, had no children, a perfect credit rating and plenty saved.

I dated DH for 2 years, he then asked me to marry him and I suggested we go into counseling to discuss the stepkids, us and bio mom's conflicts. Financial things came into the picture during the discussions and I am so very glad they did. The counselor directly asked DH what his long term financial oblication were going to be to the stepkids. He made DH say. The counselor stated the I had the right to know this before I said yes to marriage. DH stated he would pay up to the 4 years of college and then they were on their own.

At that point I knew I could deal with it. So my suggestion to you is to get DH to say in front of a counselor\witness or put in writing what his plans are with his child. What you posted sounds like he has stated his plans. If you can live with his plans then continue your relationship, if not, move on. I will tell you he will not change with time. My adult stepkids continue to think dear dad owns them. DH knows what his plan is/was of the 4 years of college then their on their own.

Be careful and trust your instincts.

I dont see how anyone can foresee, especially when children are young, what costs one is going to pay for.

And Dana, after my X left me, I have cut out golf, etc for a time. I work full time, but expenses are tough and I would rather not worry. I hope to be better off in a few years, but for the time being I have cut back.

I have been thinking a lot about this. My BF is a very loving and supportive person of me. I've read a lot of the posts in this forum, and I get stressed just reading about all the issues that come with marrying a man with a child. I think what awful situations and stressful lives and relationships people are in. Then I feel a little better when I look into my situation because I don't feel like those problems are present (daughter is very sweet, no problems from ex), but fear that they will someday pop up.

BF is the first man with child that I've dated, and I fell very hard for him. There are other issues in our relationship which we are working on, but I think that this one may be the breaking point. He is very firm about us being together in things.

Before moving in together, I had brought up the his/hers/joint account plan to pay for our shared expenses, as I thought this would lead to less arguments than the taking turns method (I make about 48k, which is I would like to have 3 kids of my own and he knows this. Do you ever have feelings of resentment that your kids are supported by you and DH and that skids have more (you, DH, biomom, stepdad etc)? It feels terrible to admit and selfish (another thing he points out) to feel this way.

I just feel like an awful person if the decision not to continue comes down to financial stuff. BF has said to me, he is looking at our relationship in terms of love, togetherness and support, and I am looking at it in terms of money and credit ratings. It's hard to feel like the better person to leave the relationship when someone states things like that. I know that if we cannot come to agreement with how things would be worked out, it's the right thing to not be together, but the feelings I have for BF make it very difficult to accept when I have hoped to share my future with him. The thought of ending this relationship is incredibly sad and stressful. I know we're not married, but we've lived together for almost a year now and shared every part of our lives with each other.

I've read through the posts about "would you do it again" and it seems so much that the majority answer is no.

Let him read some of the posts.... he might form a different opinion.

Finances are one of the major issues people need to deal with in any marriage.

I am a SAHSM and I have my own account ... we have 3 yours, mine, and ours.

A couple of points keep sticking in my mind:

- One is that your BF sounds like a very principled person -- like a man of really good character, a good father, and potentially, a very good husband. I like his values, his approach to a relationship, his philosophy.

- The second is that if the genders were reversed, I think many of us would be reacting differently -- that the 'husband' needs to provide for all of his wife's children to a fairly equal extent. I think another point that is creeping up but perhaps hasn't been articulated yet is the issue of emasculation. In other words, if OP earns most of the money and has control over how it gets spent, then what does that make BF? And of course, OP's work hours will be absolutely horrible for many years. So will BF be the house husband? The non-working or chronically under-employed spouse? The one whose career always takes the back seat? That's a pretty tough issue for a man's ego to handle.

These are major issues -- But successful resolution IS possible. And this guy sounds like he's probably worth the effort to try to work something out.

Worrywart: We're women. We've worked hard for our careers. My mother/parents always told me to be sure I could support myself (have your own career young lady!) I'm sure behind most successful women today came that thought somewhere along the line.

You're being VERY practical and he's being romantic about all of this. The #1 reason marriages split up is money, I believe. Financial strain can put a good marriage on a rocky road and simply do a lousy marriage in.

I'm pleased to hear that the ex is not an issue and that the girl is a sweet one. I can honestly tell you that I entered my Dear Nephews' lives when they were almost 1,3,5 and I love them as my own - now in their mid-upper teens. I often wondered if I had married my DH when his kids were younger (and the ex didn't lie to them) if I could have had that same unconditional love for them, too. It's very possible you will grow to love this girl almost as your own and will therefore want to help to provide for her.

I think, as women, we get irked when we see the fathers doing more than they are ordered to while the mothers don't seem to want to part w/ a dime. I had this whole scenario go on for us and it continues to persist to some degree. But, I also have animosity as my relationship w/ the skids has not always been the smoothest.

If we had the ability to help as much as we have, I'd have no problem w/ DH doing for his kids as long as he was not rewarding bad behavior, which is what he largely did. But, we have no college funds for our sons (yet) while his DDs did not want to stay in FL where they had scholarships. So, we were stuck paying out of state tuition 100%. When the SS changed his college, he stayed in the state, but went to a private univ. and I'm paying for the GSLs that I was dumb enough to cosign for - and had his mother basically tell me what an idiot I was to do so!

So, I have a lot of water under the bridge. If you want this man to father your children, work out the finances now and err on the side of you being less generous. The worst that could happen is that in the future, you choose to do more, which won't upset anyone. Also work out w/ your bf exactly what your expectations are for your own future children - lining up the prepaid college funds, private school (almost a 'must' for us in FL, but expensive), etc. Go as far to say "I think we need to put away $xxxx/mo. w/o fail..." and don't let a month go by that you let that slide.

Don't let him make you feel like you're a bad person for bringing up stuff the romantics think will all just miraculously work out. Nothing miraculously works out - it all takes work.

On any given day, I could easily tell you to run from anyone w/ kids. But, my DH and I are soul mates, though we have a large age gap. We LOVE sports, playing them, watching them, etc. We have three of the most gorgeous (I'm not biased, lol) boys you've ever seen. We are constantly stopped if out in public - people always comment on what a beautiful family we are. And, we love one another. My boys love their 1/2 sisters, and despite some bumps in the road, I do believe the girls love them. My SS is MIA, sadly - haven't heard his voice in a couple of years.

I do believe we are nearing the end of a very rocky rollercoaster ride of highs and lows. I want to believe my SDs now know the truth about their dad and I (that it was their mom who was unfaithful, not dad and I was certainly not the other woman) and also see that while we've had our difficult times, we worked through them and have been married 10 years. I think at least the older DD sincerely appreciated me being by her dad's side when he nearly died last year. On many levels things are getting much better. You will not have the same issues I dealt w/ for so long, so you will most likely not be as angry as I was when I watched my DH go behind my back to do stuff for these kids.

Be glad it's only one child he already has, but also be sure you won't let things eat away at you over time. My guess is that you will love this girl one day and maybe be the one taking her for a girl's day out or something. Can you envision that?

Good luck,
Dana

Well first of all your bf sounds like a good responsible father, he has a job, is working, is not lazy. He aslo sounds like a good bf. As I see he makes 60-70K which is pretty good and he only has one child to support, so it does not seem such a bad deal.

And then if you work and make good money then all together you are going to make a handsome living. I would not be concerned.

If he would not hold a good job, do not have a career, depends on you financially then of course run for your life or at least keep your finaces away from him...It does not seem to be the case.

I understand how you feel but...I am thinking of my ex-husband who decided single heartedly to pay full college tuition and cost of living for our daughter. He is remarried and has a little son. He makes good money but not wealthy. I do not know if he discussed this with his wife prior to make a decision. I did not ask him to pay for college by himself, in fact we were discussing that we need to rely on scholarships and financial aid. But she wanted to go to a a particular (expensive) college with no scholarship. He felt that it is her future and let her go where she wants to. I suggested I pay a certain percentage of cost of living and tuition, at this point his decision is that he pays in full (well I help here and there but not significantly). I do not know how his decision effected his marraige and if his wife is happy about it (it is a huge chunk of his income). If that's what your bf will decide with time how would that make you feel? If I would be somebody's second wife I wonder how would I feel...

"he felt that I was trying to have control over money"

& what?

He doesn't want you to have control over money?

He wants control of your money?

The person who controls your money controls you.

Don't take any steps that you can't reverse.

Read the thread titled something like "Why Are Husbands Like That?" or "What is it With Husband?"

It's about the subterfuges many married women have to resort to, to keep their husbands from spending every dime.

It is very frustrating to see one parent cover the majority of the financial strain of children. DH and myself cover 100% of my 2 SS's expenses, biomom does not pay her childsupport nor even let them bathe at her house on visitation(her water bill might go up). I am also the primary breadwinner in our family, and DH and myself now have three boys of our own to feed,cloth etc so its really easy to get resentful when you see your hard earned money going twards children that are not yours while biomom sits back and refuses to contribute or just expects it.
If BioMom is gainfully employed she has no excuse not to meet him 50% on bills. He says he wants to be a good father because he didn't have one, there are more aspects to fatherhood than just footing the bill. Some men use money as a compensation for quality time/guilt/etc, that is not healthy parenting. He does have many things in his favor: 1)good employment 2)he actually wants to support his children (albeit with over enthusiasm) 3)non-drama with the x. As far as men with previous marriages go it could be much worse of a situation.

Set a financial plan for your family, one he has to agree to and stick to, set your limits for all those future big ticket items. If he can't compromise...keep separate accounts.

Thanks again for all your great feedback, especially Dana.

I know what I will feel comfortable with, and what would make me stressed and resentful. I would be very moody about money coming out of my account and going to ex. We are very much the practical vs romantic in many ways. Maybe when we get to that point, college is something I want to contribute to. I know that for now, I would not be happy with him expecting me to do so, when it is a topic that I asked about very early in our relationship, and was not expected to do.

I have suggested that he start a college savings acct for his daughter, but I don't think he thinks that way.

I also see the gender issue, and feel very much that it plays a big role in this. I have older friends who remarried and from the beginning told the new husband that their kids had a father and that there were no expectations for the new husband to provide for them. I think this difference may come from the ages of the kids when the remarriage occurs.

I think I need to reiterate and be firm that at this point I am not ready to take on his financial obligations, this may or may not change in the future, and he needs to accept that, or not. I can be supportive of what he wants to do for his daughter without it being dependent on the bank account with my name on it. He can be willing to take on my financial obligations if he wants, but I would never ask or expect it of him.

I don't think he will ever ask his ex to split 50/50. He doesn't even like it when I am this way about our shared expenses. Again, not sure situation ex's situation, but I do know that he gave her all their savings and took all the credit card debit in his name when they divorced, "because he knew he could survive and rebuild". Me suggesting that he ask his ex to contribute does not result in anything - he will not do it. This is the part that bothers me - he would not ask his daughter's mom to contribute to, but he would ask me. I would feel much better if I knew that ex would be asked if she could contribute some percentage.

I like the counselor idea - have always thought that I would want us to talk to a financial planner at some point, to get objective input and advice for us. But perhaps a relationship counselor with experience in stepfamilies would be the better idea.

Keeping hidden accounts or giving him allowance is definitely something that wouldn't work for us- would cause too much resentment on his side- he already feels that I "hold money over his head" if I bring up the $12000 I gave him out of my savings to clear his debts (no more garnished wages for him, he now puts max into his 401k) and pay for real estate classes. I know... dumb move on my part, but I was feeling romantic when we first started dating.

he already feels that I "hold money over his head" if I bring up the $12000 I gave him out of my savings to clear his debts (no more garnished wages for him, he now puts max into his 401k)

Holy smoke.

Be very careful *from now on*.

Hello,

I am in a similar situation. I make a great deal more than my husband, who has three children.

Initially, I thought that the income disparity would not be a problem, but it has caused a fair amount of friction in our relationship.

I enjoy being generous and giving gifts, as long as they are appreciated. But the SKids don't see the things I do and the visits in my homes as gifts: they are entitled because their father married up. And, the youngest, who is 14, now refers to my homes as hers.

If you have only one bank account, and your boyfriend uses it to buy things for his daughter, it makes him (not you) look generous. He looks like the hero at your expense. How will this make you feel about your boyfriend? I suspect you will feel resentful.

Whatever you decide, I think a PreNup is critical. If he gives you a great deal of resistance to the idea, you will have more information.

I am a little curious if you grew up in a household where you "parented" your parents.

Hi worrywart!

I'm the one who asked the question that started the "hindsight - would you be a stepmother again" thread. I'm finding this thread soooooo helpful as well, so, thanks to you and all of those who have responded to your inquiry.

I pose this question to you as someone who is asking herself the same questions you now ask yourself.

Regarding your BF's garnishments - doesn't it take a LONG period of delinquency (and lost lawsuits) before that happens to someone? Is this an indication of serious irresponsibility? It seems inconsistent with the picture I had in my mind of your BF, based on earlier posts in the thread.

good point, analytical1.

something I missed first time:
since he used OP's $12,000 to catch up, he's putting the max in his 401k.

Has he re-paid the $12,000?

If not, then you have your answer.

I think we women often get so emotionally involved that our logical brains give up & go dormant.

If you had been approached by anyone with whom you weren't emotionally/romantically involved, would you have handed that person $12,000 to stop wage garnishment?

& would you be pleased that he was using the freed-up money to put the maximum into his 401k?

& would you ever put your money into a joint bank account with that person or even have your name on a joint account?

Someone who pushes for this kind of control is not going to be reasonable about whose money is whose.

It's all his.

Listen to your logical brain;
don't relinquish control of your own money.

His reaction to your decision may show you aspects of his character that you haven't seen.

I wish you the best.

newstepmom: I guess I do somewhat parent my parents. They came to the U.S. as adults, and so as kids, my sibs and I introduced them a lot to American culture, so we do act that way.

Thanks for bringing up the issue of skids thinking that dad is the generous, providing guy. i never thought of that, but it would bother me if i wasn't appreciated for their (in my case, her) "life improvement" (for lack of a better term.

analytical1: this is what my BF has told me about his debts: he had a period between h.s. and comm. college in which he was not a financially responsible person. He came from a disadvantaged background (compared to me), was never taught to save money, work towards purchasing a home, etc. At the same time as his divorce, his mother passed away, and he singlehandedly took on the cost of that (hospital bills, funeral, etc), despite the fact that he has a brother and sister and uncles.

i was surfing the web last night... came across some people searching sites. Have any of you ever looked up your DH/BF to see if there is anything you don't know about? I'm considering this. I trust him, but I'm also realistic.

Last night we talked about what togetherness meant, and he said that he knows we have to talk about goals for us. He then said that with love, things will work out. To which I countered that we have to make plans, not just count on love (which he got a little irritated at, b/c i guess that's what he meant when he said we needed to have couple goals).

I can see assuming the debt of the marriage, even giving Ex all of the assets since there's child to provide for. But to *also* singlehandedly take on medical bills and funeral costs when there were others who were equally responsible and probably equally able? To me, that indicates some great unfulfilled need to be the 'provider' -- to be the source of largesse. What's he trying to make up for? (I'm curious - Is he of Asian descent?)

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the hospital bills of a deceased patient the legal responsibility of the patient's estate? Not the family? So wouldn't they basically wipe out the estate, then NOT pass on? (Thinking back to when my FIL passed.) In any case, I know that my FIL's many creditors quickly backed off and disappeared when they learned he had passed away and that his estate was insolvent.

Anyway -- You're wise to keep your logical head on straight.

I did a search on my boyfriend. Since I am in real estate, I even searched myself to make sure that he owned the house he said he owned.

Worrywart - In reading what you said about how he dealt with things upon his mother's death, there seems to be a pattern of taking on financial burdens that are not his alone to bear. He does it with the kid and ex. He does it with his family. The only problem with that is . . . he's not rich. One can take on other's burdens when one can afford to do so. Here, it seems that he's willing to put himself at a FINANCIAL DETRIMENT in order to appear to be the one who can handle everything. So, to outsiders, it looks like he's got everything under control. But, from your vantage point, you know that he doesn't.

What happens when another family member passes away or something comes up and someone needs money? There's nothing wrong with helping (of course, having a giving heart is a good thing), but is it good to give to the point of screwing up your financial situation? Especially when there are others who could contribute, too?

Just things to consider. As I mentioned, you and I are in a similar place. You seem to think like I do. I'm not trying to bash the man, cuz he's obviously a good guy.

It is worth to look up a person, I did it once in my life on a guy whom I just met.

He seemed to be supsiciously into me so much, so soon and so persistent, kind of like seeing me every day, telling me how I am a woman of his dreams way too soon etc.

It seemed creepy and I looked him up, you won't believe what I eventually found! I found that he did not pay hiss bills or used fake credit card using escort service, sex pnone service and porn sites, so he ended up owing that company $5 000!!!! What they do they publish your name, your address and phone number on a website so people know who you are. And until you pay, they won't remove your name. Well, he was there. And it shocked me not as much as that he is using all that stuff but that he does not want to pay for it. I trusted my guts that something was fishy about him and I was right! Of course I never saw him again.

I think a Prenup is an absolute necessity in your case.

If you get married without one, you will regret it. You need to spell out how assets will be divided between you, your boyfriend, and his daughter.

You clearly have very strong feelings for your boyfriend. I think many women on this web site would not have felt comfortable giving their significant other $12,000 when he has a higher income, so that he can put money away in a 401k. That is great for him, but what about you? You are a struggling medical resident, with $100,000 of your own debt to deal with. Are you the beneficiary on the 401k account, or is the ex?

I wonder if you have some "issue" about being a caretaker that makes you put the needs of others way above your own needs. It is great to be giving, just make sure you are getting something back, or you will grow to resent your boyfriend.

I agree a prenup is necessary in this case, but I also beleive it is necessary in any second marriage where children are involved. I think others have voiced a different opinion on that previously. I also think the discussions before the prenup are extremely important as people will think about things.

$12000: I gave him $10000 to help him, as I saw his potential as a person, knew I had the ability to help, and wanted to see his life get better. I did not ask him to repay this. I liked that he didn't use his newly freed funds, but decided to max his 401k contribution, and mentioned plans that when it vests, he would use this to have money to purchase a home. I didn't know there were beneficiaries on 401k's, but I do know that ex is not a beneficiary on his other policies - his daughter is, so presumably she is on the 401k as well. $2000 went towards paying for real estate classes, and this I was very clear that he needed to repay to me.

Being a Provider: He has recognized that he does this, I just think that it does not matter to him that it puts him in financial difficulty because he feels that he comes out the better man because he made the right choices morally. He did end up going to counseling (about 2 months) for these issues (plus other stuff), where I think it was spelled out to him. He has mentioned that he is trying to change his approach to things for the sake of our relationship, but I haven't seen him make any changes - am not sure if he ever will.

With his mom's death, I don't think she had any resources herself, so I don't think she had any estate to speak of. Myself, I am a little similar, but not to his extent. I do see that try to do things to make others happy to my own detriment at times, but I have never done this in the financial sense (except for the $10000). I'm actually Asian, he's Caucasian.

How would you approach BF? I think I just have to let him know that I will be a stressed and resentful person if things go the way he imagines (joint account, him being over-provider, taking on other's burdens), and that the relationship cannot survive under those conditions.

Also, any suggestions for a good people search that you've used?

I am worried about you!

You seem to be doing most of the giving and the boyfriend is laying a guilt trip on you.

I am fairly certain that you cannot use the 401k money to buy a home without paying a hefty penalty, but you should check into that. I think a 401k is for retirement. And if the daughter is the beneficiary, guess who will have discretion over that money until she turns 18? The ex. I doubt she will write you a thank you note.

You can do a background check on Intelius.com or USSearch.com. They are pretty comprehensive. That you feel like doing a search should be a big red flag. Why do you need to check?

It is great to be in love and to be giving, but I think you are giving way too much to this man. You have a six figure debt, and you are paying off his loans!

Please, please, please, seek counseling to determine your own value system. A professional can really help you determine the issues you bring to the equation.

Also, raise the issue of a prenup. See how he responds. That will give you some important information.

"I think I just have to let him know that I will be a stressed and resentful person if things go the way he imagines (joint account, him being over-provider, taking on other's burdens), and that the relationship cannot survive under those conditions."

Absolutely. That's the structure of your problem in a nutshell -- no blame, no guilt -- just the facts.

I am not sure about a 401K, but you can take money out of an IRA to put down on a house without penalty. You still have to pay income taxes on it.

If you take the BF's take-home income and subtract court-ordered child support, whatever he is required to pay for daycare, if anything, one half of his daughter's medical bills, and one half of her extracurricular activities (I would estimate that half would be at least $50 a month), then subtract whatever he spends on his vehicle and on his hobbies and any remaining debt, the remainder is what he has available to contribute to the household.

Also keep in mind that private independent schools and some colleges will take your income, subtract about $30,000, subtract whatever you pay in student loans, and then compute the expected contribution from your income as 30% of the remainder. (There are a few other things they subtract, but that is most of it). If your income is $200K, that amount will exceed the cost of a private school, so the daughter can forget going to a private high school and likely forget getting much financial aid for college either, even if she is living with her mother. Unless of course you are willing to pay for it.

On the other hand, if neither parent is remarried, and the mother earns, as an example, $30,000, the schools will estimate their expected contribution at somewhere around $10,000, I believe, making her eligible for quite a bit of financial aid. Of course these figures are far from exact, and would be affected by any additional children or medical bills, etc, and you obviously shouldn't take my word for it because I am not a financial planner. A prenup will not affect what the schools or the government determines is the Expected Family Contribution.

In my opinion, if a wealthy prospective spouse is not prepared to pay for independent school and for college for the stepchildren, then it is unfair for them to marry and screw up their stepchildren's lives, financially speaking.

Even if you gave him the $10,000 with no strings, I think a man of integrity would re-pay it.

Please look after yourself.

worrywart, I am worried about both of you. He doesn't have any financial sense, and you're willing to let him run the show. A 401k is a "saving for retirement" plan. It is not a "saving to buy a house" plan. He can only BORROW from his 401k prior to being of retirement age. He can't just make withdrawals. Otherwise, he is hit with penalties and income taxes that can be as high as 50%. Of course, if he borrows from his 401k, he will still have to pay it back. Plus, by withdrawing the principal, you've lost future compounded interest earnings for however long it takes to pay it back. Doesn't really make any financial sense to do it this way.

sylvia, as usual, hit the nail on the head. A man of integrity would re-pay it. He sounds like a taker. What's a nice Asian girl like you doing with this guy?

Penalties and taxes aside, depending on the stipulations of the 401k, the BF may not be able to borrow from it at all unless he's in danger of foreclosing on a house that is already bought and in his name, he's had a medical emergency which has caused him to lose income, or for "some" of his educational expenses. Proof of any of those situations is required to obtain the early withdrawl. DH and I just had this discussion with the investment manager.

newstepmom is absolutely correct: If daughter is beneficiary, the ex has ALL control over it until the daughter turns 18. BF can change the beneficiary at any time, however, at his request.

newstepmom... thanks for that site ... intelius...playing around I found my oldest SD's mom she has been MIA(missing in america) for over 10 years. So now when she asks about her mom again ... we can atleast send a letter or something.
I'll wait for her to ask before I get the whole report.

Thank you for bringing up issues I wasn't clear about.

I think when I had offered the 10k BF had mentioned that he would repay it, but I said something like it was money to help him get out of his situation, and that was not expected.

It came up yesterday, and it turns out that he was already maxing his 401k contribution before my gift. I asked him how much $ was being garnished from his paychecks prior to debts being cleared, he couldn't remember, just said that that money was being used for groceries, etc. So I guess my gift went towards his current QOL improvement. That's fine, I'm glad it's happened for him, I really don't have any expectations that he will repay me this money (figured it would be a moot point if we got the married point), although I agree that a man of integrity would pay it back, and I do have some small hope that he would repay it if we went our separate ways. If he doesn't, I know I will manage fine without it.

Regarding 401K, he has taken loans out to pay for his share of vacations we have taken together. Since the real estate classes (he ended up not being able to attend, and they wouldn't accomodate his work schedule and would not refund the money), I have been very careful about freely giving money to BF. I haven't brought up to BF any of these main issues you all have brought up in this thread, might have to wait until after weekend due to other events.

I am seeing your comments about needing to be careful in this relationship... it is something my sister & a close friend have mentioned to me already... will start a new post as their are other issues going on.

Hi Warrywart - Just wanted to comment on one thing you mentioned that I have experience with - I have supported SS for 10 years now - DH ex was suppose to pay 50 %. We have never received not one dime from this woman, never one CS check - and my DH would never go after her, of course this was because I was taking up her slack. I can tell you that yes you will without a doubt feel resentful, and then to add on to the resentful feeling its also quite possible your SD will not appreciate you at all, but feel entitled. Hard pill to swallow.

loans against 401k to pay for vacations?

eek.

signed up for real estate classes & couldn't attend & lost the money?
& blames it on the school not "accomodating his schedule"?

eek.

I usually don't post, but I feel compelled to.

$12k. That's a lot of money. And it seems like none of it was used the way he told you it would be used. Red Flag.

Also, on another post you mentioned about the mess with your sister's wedding. Another Red Flag.

I think he found a really nice, trusting girl that he can take advantage of until it no longer suits him. Please be careful. I know you don't want to hear it (I sure wouldn't) but in my opinion you need to run. Find yourself someone that will love you for you and not take advantage of you.

Best of luck to you. Please keep writing in any of the forums here. I am mostly on KT, but lurk around other forums when I am bored. I am worried about you and want to know your progress.

"BF has said to me, he is looking at our relationship in terms of love, togetherness and support, and I am looking at it in terms of money and credit ratings"

He has no right to guilt trip you like that. If he cares for you at all, he would listen to your concerns and try to find a solution that works for both of you -- he should not be pushing so hard for getting his way.

Dealing with financials is a two way street. It does not sound like you have much input into how much he spends on his daughter -- why should he have the right to tell you what you will be contributing to? You are not obligated to be financially responsible for his daughter. How much you contribute to his daughter's expenses should be up to you, not him.

A man who genuinely cares for you will not force you to do something that you are uncomfortable with. It sounds a lot like this guy is trying to take advantage of you. If he is making 60K to 70K a year and cannot pay for both his child and his own living expenses, there is something seriously wrong with his financial management.