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Electrical Wiring

AFCI breakers

10 years ago

I know that current code requires GFCI protection on the 2 required 20A circuits running along the countertops in the kitchen. but,what about AFCI breakers? should EVERY circuit in my kitchen remodel have such protection? like the fridge which will have it's own 20A circuit,it won't have any GFCI but should it have an AFCI breaker back at my subpanel?

tnx,

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Comments (12)

Ron Natalie
10 years ago
Specifically the countertop receptacles require GFCI protection, the entire small appliance circuits (which feed other kitchen receptacles) doesn't need that protection.

Whether you need AFCI protection or not depends on what version of the code your area is using. AFCIs were initially only required for bedroom (2008). This was expanded to most living areas but not kitchens (2011) and the in the process of being adopted 2014 code requires it in kitchens as well.
rwiegand
10 years ago
AFCI breakers seem very highly prone to nuisance trips so putting a dedicated fridge or freezer outlet on one would be plain stupid, no matter what the code says.
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From September 2007 JLC In the News Expanded AFCI Requirements Spark Controversy In June, the National Fire Protection Association which publishes the National Electric Code Â voted to greatly expand requirements in the 2008 code for residential use of arc-fault current interrupters (AFCIs). These devices prevent fires caused by faulty wiring; unlike conventional circuit breakers (which trip on gross faults) or ground-fault circuit interrupters (which cut off power to a circuit if they detect an imbalance between the hot and neutral conductors), AFCIs trip in response to unintentional arcs in household wiring. Already, the more stringent rules are provoking debate within the industry Â even though they won't take effect until January. Back story. Requirements for AFCIs aren't new: The devices have been cropping up in the NEC for several years, ever since an amendment to the 1999 code mandated their use in all bedroom receptacles. The 2002 code extended that requirement to all bedroom outlets, including light fixtures, receptacles, and smoke alarms. And the 2005 code reduced current levels and required for the first time that the devices detect both series and parallel arcs. (Series arcs occur when the current jumps a gap, as when a wire is cracked; parallel arcs form when damaged insulation allows the current to jump between conductors, or from a conductor to ground.) Now the pending 2008 code has gone even further, specifying combination-type AFCIs Â the type capable of detecting both kinds of arc Â in all 120-volt 15- and 20-amp circuits that supply "dwelling-unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas." Advocates tout fire prevention. Gerard Winstanley of the National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA) contends that the new AFCI requirement will prevent numerous fatal fires. "I expect them to have a similar effect to smoke alarms on reducing fire deaths," he says. "That data will be collected 10 or 20 years down the line." He refers to figures on NEMA's consumer-information Web site (www.afcisafety.org) that ascribe 67,800 fires, 458 deaths, and $868 million in property losses to home electrical problems each year. (It should be noted, however, that estimates of losses from fires of electrical origin vary widely according to source; the Underwriters Laboratory Web site, for example, puts the figures at 32,000 fires, 220 deaths, and $674 million in damages, while a 2006 NFPA report cites 19,100 fires, 140 deaths, and $349 million in damages.) According to Winstanley, the difference in cost between a conventional circuit breaker and a combination-type AFCI is typically about $15, meaning it should cost $200 or less to install a full complement of AFCI breakers in a typical new home. "That's a fairly small outlay," he says. "Once it's explained, consumers will accept them." Opponents predict glitches. Other industry observers, however, are skeptical; they question not only NEMA's numbers but also its motivation, noting that the electrical manufacturers themselves are in the business of selling the mandated products. Independent NEC expert Mike Holt, for example, contends that AFCI technology is "not even close" to being ready for general use. Few electrical contractors, he says, have experience with the new combination AFCIs, making it impossible to know whether normal arc-producing events like distant flashes of lightning or the operation of motorized devices will lead to widespread nuisance tripping. "I'm totally convinced there will be a huge problem," he says. The pending 2008 NEC will require AFCI circuit breakers Â like the ones shown here from four manufacturers Â to protect 15- and 20-amp circuits in most rooms of the house. Opponents claim the devices are not ready for general use, and that nuisance tripping will be a problem. Moreover, Holt scoffs at NEMA's cost figures. "Look," he says, "if they're smart, electrical contractors are going to figure out their real costs and add some money for service calls to the job." He figures that the AFCI provision will cause most subs to up their bids by $500 to $1,000 per home. "Electrical contractors will be okay," he says, "but they don't have to sell that increase to the buyer. I still can't believe home builders didn't fight this more than they did." Â Jon Vara
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Hmm, I will look into AFCI requirements in the city. It is my preference to keep the AFCI setup, but that leaves me with two options: 1) Spend $400 bucks on a CutlerHammer 2 pole AFCI (any other suggestions for makes?). 2) Pull a 4 wire electrical cable thru the existing cable's pathway to provide an independent neutral to Outlet 1. There are two 90 degree turns to the service panel which is about 15' away from Outlet 1. It's possible it will be a clean pull without snags...mebbe. By the way, my queries should be referred to as "her" questions. Thanks folks!
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Sorry, I missed the last two posts until now. Spencer, I already have a wireless CO detector at the top of the stairs, which is just off the two bedrooms. This is monitored by my security alarm system. I have a battery operated smoke alarm device in centre of the first floor hallway and another at the base of the stairs in the basement. They are all basically centrally located on each level, "stacked" vertically at the base and top of stairwells. The house has a small footprint. for instance, the boiler unit is located no more than 15 feet from the basement device, and the two bedroom doorways are located about 5 feet from the second floor device. The perimeter walls of the house are not more than 15 feet away in any direction. greg, you are right, I should have advised, but re Canadian Code, I don't see anything here that would be contrary. Ted
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I couldn't find them on th eweb page of schneider, thought it was becasue of this: "This document explains why the practice of sharing neutrals in wiring is not a good general wiring practice and why it is incompatible with the use of SQUARE D AFCIs." http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/Arc%20Fault%20Circuit%20Interrupters-AFCI/0760DB0203R902.pdf I did see a catalog and it had th epart number but the link went to the single pole. I think the 15 amp verison was not available, read a couple of blog where they say it was discontinued. I have 14 AWG cable and the circuit is 15 amp. This is a 20 amp. I did find the 15 amp: http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-Two-Pole-Circuit/dp/B00KHVM6JU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1456718823&sr=1-1&keywords=square+d+afci+two+pole+QO+15+amp I already put the AFCI receptacles on the bedrooms so I think I will be covered, hopefully the inspector will agree. I will ask him about the 2 pole breaker if that would be in code. Thanks again. I have learned a lot about the code in this project.
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Ron Natalie
10 years ago
They are getting much better. My original mod2 GE AFCIs tripped frequently. I replaced them with the mod3's and the problem went away. Frankly, these *@$&%@*@ TR receptacles are driving me more nuts than the ArcFaults.

You'd be well advised to put some sort of readily seen indicator or an alarm on any refrigeration. Even a breaker trip can cause you issues.

GFCI is NOT required for refrigerators now (and most likely never will).

When your area adopts NEC 2014, you *WILL* need to add arc faults to the refrigerator unless you use conduit or one of the cable type that gets you exempted. It's up to you to see if you wish to do this for the refrigeration circuits.
User
10 years ago
Well, I have a frig in my unfinished basement. That area requires GFCI so I have my frig on a dedicated GFCI circuit. I think that is overkill, but I didn't see any exclusion for it.
Ron Natalie
10 years ago
And I have a freezer in my garage on the GFCI required there. Can't say it's "nuisance" tripped much. This is one of those houses from the 70's where every GFCI outlet is all on one circuit (the GFCI is in the downstairs powder room). It doesn't take long for us to realize when the power is off...other things stop working which as I pointed out is a good way to protect yourself.

I've had more problems over the years with people failing to close the door than power problems.

As I stated at least with arc faults, if you are in a non-GFCI area, you can always legally avoid having one by using the proper wiring methods.
User
10 years ago
I, on the other hand, have come home from a 2wk vacation to find the GFCI tripped and I had a freezer full of rotten food (the smell and the flies!). We paid ServiceMaster to haul that fridge away without ever opening the doors. That's when I put in a dedicated line and new GFCI hoping for the best. And when I get my sister to check on the house, I make her come downstairs and physically check.

This post was edited by jreagan on Thu, Feb 27, 14 at 13:12
rwiegand
10 years ago
Can you hard wire a freezer and avoid the requirement of either AFCI or GFCI? The code I looked at referred to receptacles needing them. My hard-wired furnace in the basement is not on a GFCI circuit and just passed inspection without a question.
Ron Natalie
10 years ago
You can't beat the AFCI requirement by hardwiring. The requirement is that all OUTLETS must be protected. You can avoid it by using conduit or other tougher cabling.

Hardwiring can avoid GFCI in most places (most places that require GFCI only apply to RECEPTACLES).
rwiegand
10 years ago
Thanks-- conduit is easy, so that sounds like a great way to go. (I'm about to have my electrician put a freezer circuit in the basement, so I'll ask him to look into this.)
glen2
10 years ago
I keep reading about AFCI nuisance trips. I have been using AFCI breakers since 1997, before the 2008 NEC requirement, and have not encountered a single nuisance trip in all that time. Those first generation AFCIs were upgraded to the latest generation combination breakers, and coninue to have no issues.
Ron Natalie
10 years ago
Well you were lucky. I had them trip just on switch throws for lighting and such. Plugging a vacuum also tripped them.
The newer versions were much improved, but the originals were a pain in the rear.
bus_driver
10 years ago
Apparently the AFCI breakers I have also include GFCI functions. Mine are from 2002.
For a laugh at my expense, I had fluorescent lights in closets that would not work when tested the day that the house was connected to power. So I used my trusty, favorite, tester which is two 15 watt appliance bulbs in series. Touching the leads of the tester to the hot and the ground to test for power will trip a GFCI. And it did trip the AFCI breaker. Since the test light did not even blink at the closet, I tested at the panel and discovered the tripping problem. After some frustration, I found that the ballasts were powder coated and not making proper contact with the fluorescent fixture housing (new fixtures) and thus were not grounded. Correcting that solved the problem. So older testing techniques may not work with all the newer devices.

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