need your help on inset cabinet hinges

gunderson1909

17 years ago

Hi - we have been discussing cabinet hinges for inset cabinets over in the kitchen forum, but I think we are all virtual infants on the hinge learning curve. It is time to ask over here where people work with cabinets and hinges.

For inset cabinet doors what do you recommend for ball tip hinges?

Here are three I have seen that Classic Brass makes:

1. mortised with screw holes that allow adjustment - I noticed that some cabinet companies used mortise hinges and only mortise one side. These are extruded brass.

http://www.myknobs.com/clb2571bz.html

2. non-mortised extruded brass which do not wrap to the back of the door.

http://www.myknobs.com/clb2581bz.html

3. non-mortised full wrap and partial wrap. These are steel, not extruded brass. I have not seen these in person yet, but have seen some other Classic Brass non-mortise that are made of steel that are not as smooth as the extruded brass.

http://www.myknobs.com/clb2551bz.html

I think I would prefer non-mortised. The way things have been going on this job I am concerned about errors in mortising that could lead to further delays and possibly waiting for doors or cabinets to be re-made.

What can you tell me about the different types of hinges with regard to function, durability, adjustability, gap sizing, looks. Are these hinges made by Classic Brass of good quality?

Sorry about the image size - I could not manage to get them the right size. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Here is a link that might be useful: page with many Classic Brass hinges at bottom

Featured Answer

hortonbrass

17 years ago

I am the owner of Horton Brasses and I hope I can help. The wrap around style non mortise hinge is no better or worse than the non wrap type. Hinges that are not solid brass, and/or not extruded, are usually made as a wrap around to provide some extra strength. With solid brass extruded hinges, there is no need for the wrap around.

Regardless of what type of hinge you end up using, a solid brass hinge is the most important factor. It will never wear out. Other metals, particularly zinc, will eventually develop stress fractures and break.

My little plug: Our non mortise hinge is the best selling item we make. It is comparable if not superior to Classic's version. Classic Brass's version is good, and either one will last a lifetime. I feel that ours is second to none and we guarantee them for life.

Here is a link that might be useful: Horton Brasses Non Mortise Hinge

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Comments (8)

edgemont
17 years ago
I would recommend the non-mortise wrap hinges. Much easier to adjust and install. With the cabinet doors closed the appearance is the same as a mortised hinge.
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gunderson1909
Original Author
17 years ago
thank you, edgemont. Could you please explain how the non-mortise wrap hinges are easier to adjust? How are they better than the non-mortise hinges with no wrap? The wrap type are not extruded brass which I was told were better quality. How long generally do the wrap hinges last?
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I have a bank of cabinets in my MBR, a set of 3 visible from the MBR in the MB. To the right of that is the vanity, which you can't see unless you're in the MB, but you can see the bank of 3, too. I plan different finishes on the ones in the MBR and bank of 3. The vanity is that espresso maple Shaker. My fixtures are stainless and brushed stainless. I plan to use wrought iron handles on the bank of 3 and in the MBR. However, I'm using the same handles to tie it together. What you can't see is in my laundry room, the cabs will match the MBR and have the wrought iron, too. I guess continuity. If I had known what I like, like I know now? All this stuff would have been inset and we'd be chatting hinges! In my kitchen I do have inset and have begun wondering about the same question you've asked. I'm going to hunt Houzz. :) I'd love to see pictures of your kitchen and particularly, your cabs. I swoon over inset.
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It would help to see a picture or at least the brand and model of the hinges you are using.I have installed thousands of hinges and cabinet doors and am sure you are just using the wrong hinges for your application or not following the manufactures instructions.There is no such thing as standard hinges and the term partial inset is confusing although I think I know what you are reffering to.
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Hi All interested. I'd like to address a few comments. My name is Birdie Miller, I have an account here at Houzz. I design and build custom kitchens, cabinets, furniture and millwork, since 1972. I invented the EuroButt II faux butt hinge in 1990 and brought it to the market in 1996. Because the European concealed hinge is such a GREAT hinge, designers have had to 'do-away' with the functional design element of the traditional butt hinge, mostly because cabinet makers don't want to use the butt hinge, "It is a pain in the butt to use it". It isn't because they don't want to see it, they just don't want to use it. Before 1980 all doors were hinged with some sort of knuckle hinge, the 80's were the period that contemporary design in the USA took off, along with the construction technique of frameless cases and European hardware. After a decade of getting used the European hardware and case building techniques most cabinet makers didn't want to go back to butt hinges and face frame cabinets. I know there are plenty of sources for face frame cabinets and no mortise butt hinges (NOW). In the 1990s there weren't. After the 1988 stock market crash, our industry took a 'HIT'. When it came back in 1992, 95% of the architects and designers I worked with went back to traditional design... I have my theory why that happened! Back to the subject. Using the concealed hinge is a smart way to go, for the cabinetmaker and the customer, but you loose the design element of traditional design. I ran into the problem in 1990 when my designers were now calling for the butt hinge. With a little work, I said, ''why can't I just do this''.... Fake the butt hinge and let the concealed hinge do all the work!!! With that concept, I invented the EuroButt II faux butt hinge. You get the best of 2 worlds, The charm of traditional design and the advantages of the high tech concealed hinge. That is why you would use the EuroButt II faux but hinge... Self close, Soft close, Adjustments and Clip on and off. I took a lot of care to design a fake hinges that looked absolutely REAL. I show the EuroButt II at my Houzz listing, with a link to the EuroButt II website address. If you have any questions let me know. Take care and good luck with your projects.
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edgemont
17 years ago
The slots for the scresw allow for vertical adjustment in getting the door centered. The wrap allows more surface contact area of the hinge to the door to keep it more stable (so it won't loosen up). I believe the wrap hinges have the same usage life as others.
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russmahogany
17 years ago
I don't know where you live but I think the best advice for you would be to find a cabinet maker in your area (you might have to call several) and ask him how much he would charge to install euro type hinges if you brought him the doors. Easy to install and super adjustable. If you want the mortice type you pictured, make a template. To do this, use a peice of 1/2" plywood, the height of the opening and 1 1/2" wide. Lay a hinge leaf on top of the template and mark around it on one side. On the other side and back of template attach a 3/4" peice of plywood so your jig is the shape of a piece of angle iron. Then yoou can shove it against the door or cabinet style, clamp it, and pattern routh the mortice. Try it on a piece of scrap first to check the depth and position. Morticing one or both sides is your choice.
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sombreuil_mongrel
17 years ago
The euro hinges _for inset doors_* seem to be rather difficult to install; they screw into the backside of the faceframe, so all production-line speed advantage is just about lost, especially if it's a narrow cabinet. Since the hinge is completely inside the box, they also steal space by intruding more than any other type.
Casey
* only the ones for inset, all other euro hinges are a relative breeze to deal with.
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gunderson1909
Original Author
17 years ago
Thank you everyone. We have a local cabinetmaker making these cabinets, but he has only done inset doors once before and used Euro hinges on them. For our inset cabinets in the dining room we want visible hinges that at least look like mortised hinges so that the cabinets look like ones that were originally in this 100 year old house. We thought it best to avoid mortised since it cannot be changed easily if there is an error.

I got samples of the above hinges and the only ones that are big enough visually are the non-mortised extruded brass (the second ones) These create a 3/32 inch gap.

http://www.myknobs.com/clb2581bz.html (Classic Brass)
OR
http://www.horton-brasses.com/products/hinges/butthinges/100 (Horton Brasses)

The Horton Brasses ones are much less expensive.

The only other option is some non-mortised wrapped steel from Classic Brass or Alno: They don't look as good, but leave a smaller (1/16 inch) gap.

http://www.myknobs.com/clb2511bz.html (Classic Brass)

http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=952 (Alno)

Does anyone know anything about the quality of any of these hinges? Has anyone used them?
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daveh644
17 years ago
Euro-hinges are easier to install, plus they have an adjustment to correctly align your inset door. They have stops on them when you open them plus you have a choice of how wide you want your swing out.
From my experience can't be beat. They're invisible too.
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need your help on inset cabinet hinges

hortonbrass

Comments (8)

edgemont

gunderson1909
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need your help on inset cabinet hinges

hortonbrass

Comments (8)

edgemont

gunderson1909Original Author

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edgemont

russmahogany

sombreuil_mongrel

gunderson1909Original Author

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gunderson1909
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