post your question at www.divorceonline.com on the He Said...She Said bulletin board. The majority of the people there are very very helpful. (ignore the few that are mean!) Plenty of experience there with visitation arrangements - I'm sure you'll get some good advice. Best wishes!

It is quite possible that your daughter will decide on her own not to visit him next summer, but I wouldn't depend on that or even subconsciously put that burden on her shoulders. Right now, I wouldn't be thinking about next summer. I'd be thinking about her safety right NOW.

When you handed your daughter over to this man, did you know where he was "living" and where to find your daughter should you need to? Also, I would have had a HUGE problem with not being able to contact them by phone reliably. At this point, I'd be thinking about where your daughter is and who she is around ... do you know these people? Do you trust them? My mind would be racing with all sorts of protective motherly thoughts, and I'd be sorely tempted to just pick her up and be done with it for now.

Spending time with her Dad does not mean living in a household with 4 adults and 8 other children. Another thought -- I'm sure her Dad is employed, right? Well, who is caring for your child when he's at work? How is she spending her days? Who is she with? Are you saying that out of four adults, not one of them can afford a phone?

Hmmmm ... I'd be concerned about the here and now and seriously consider getting her out of there until her Dad becomes more stable.

Hi azarae,

Sounds like a pretty chaotic situation. As I see it, you have 2 main situations to deal with.

The first is communication with BD. You need to be able to get in touch with him or your daughter in case there is ever a problem. I find it hard to believe that there are 12 people living without a phone in this day and age. In terms of moving an taking your daughter without telling you where, that is totally unacceptable. That is bordering on kidknapping. If he can't provide such basic info to you, I'm sure the court can help.

In terms of the other visitation issues, sounds pretty par for the course. You can't decide to send your DD to camp during his visitation time, just like he can't decide to send her somewhere when you have custody. He isn't the bad guy because he won't give up his visitiation to send her to camp. You may have other reasons to dislike him, but this shouldn't be one of them.

In terms of telephoning while DD is at his house, do you have her try to call him when she is at your home? How often? It really isn't his responsibility to make sure she checks in with you regularly. Would it be nice - sure! But he doesn't have to.

Don't get me wrong.... If your daughter is in a dangerous situation, you need to do everything in your power to get her out of it. However, if the worst part about the situation is that she is "bored" ... well, you just have to accept that you don't get to influence the choices of your ex. (Frankly, I can't imagine a house with 12 people being boring, but I'm just going by the info you gave.) He has a right to see his daughter as long as he isn't putting her in a dangerous situation.

Best of luck.

Mom 2 4-- I would love nothing more than to yank her out of the situation, however friend of the court says to address it with protective services & they will not address it without an address :(

Friend of the court accepts his mother's address & phone # as a message phone & address and for SOME reason will not make him provide his own.

I just found out he has a cell phone but refuses to give me or his daughter the # so we can contact him in emergency or to see if he will come get her on his assigned weekend or not...

I'm not being mean, however every other weekend he never shows...yet INSISTS he has to have that "right" to be there whether he wants to show up or call or not...it's sad for her & I hate watching it.

Azarae D.

Bill,

I do have her call his mothers' # every other weekend & she gets the same b.s. story about no $, the cars broke down, or "I don't know"...I would so love to have her call him whenever she wanted, but he won't give either of us his cell phone #.

I imagine living in a house with 11 other people could get boring quickly since they have no television(too far out for cable & too poor for satellite), no phone, no internet, no books, & nothing to do but help take care of other people's babies. These are not "normal" people, they are true rednecks/hillbillies.

As far as the camp goes, I don't get a "say" in when she goes, there are 6 sessions & since it is free..the camp assigns one to the child. If he wanted to split $500 + dollars for a paid camp I would gladly pick it during her time with me & leave it at that.

To be nice to him so his daughter wouldn't hate him for denying her camp time(she likes it more than him, in her words), I cut time out of my part of the summer so she could go.
The man then repays me by moving, not responding when I left messages about her prescription meds....I feel he's borderline neglecting her but how to prove it to a court is interesting to say the least.

Azarae D.

Keep a log of all his no-shows. Her living environment. In-ability to contact ... etc. Does the custody papers say any thing about ability to contact your child? The courts love logs. Include date, time, exact word quotes, all details you can.

She's only TEN! She does not have the knowledge or maturity to tackle a situation like this. She can have opinions but she can't extricate herself without some maternal guidance.

He is essentially holding her incommunicado, at an unknown location, in unknown living conditions, with strangers. That's worth a stab at getting better custody.

being bored in not a good enough reason to not be going to spend time with the other parent. He is not there to entertain her. I find it hard to believe also with that many people she is "bored". Not having an address or phone number - he is playing games.

Okay, to clarify for a few of you who didn't read the REST of my post(& a big THANK YOU to those who did!).

I never once said her being bored was why I didn't want her to go. I was hoping it may be an "out" for me in the long run so I didn't have to be the "meanie" her father will make me out to be.

I'm sure no one wants to tell their child "Honey, your dad can't keep a place to live, a job or a phone, he forgets to give you your prescription medication & I'm not sure he has the money to feed you so it's best if we wait until he pulls his s&*t together before you go back."

and since I would never say that to her, I'll just have to to cut off her visitation until its safe for her.

Azarae D.

I think you might want to reread some peoples posts here. It isn't that you don't have some legitimate beefs, but that does not mean trying to cut off visitation is a good option. It may be easier for you, but that doesn't mean that it is best for your daughter.

Being poor or unemployed isn't a crime. About 6% of all the people in the country are unemployed, but that doesn't mean they get their kids taken away from them. Lots of people need to move in with friends or family at one point or another to make ends meet. For some reason I get the impression that your ex has never been the most responsible or dependable guy in the world, but that didn't stop you from having a kid with him - and it shouldn't stop him from seeing her.

Your legitimate beefs need to be addressed though. Medication is pretty much a no brainer. You need to know where your daughter will be staying when he has custody. You need to be able to contact her in an emergency - and his mothers phone is perfectly acceptable to the court even if it isn't convenient for you. If those basics are met and she isn't in danger, you just have to accept that the man you had a kid with is a bit of bum, but he is still her father.

As far as bored goes - give me a break. All kids say they are bored if you let them. The standing summer rule at my house was that if you said you were bored, you got a list of chores to do! Frankly, no telivision, no phone, no internet sounds like a great way for a child to spend the summer. Up untill incredibly recently, that was the ONLY way to spend a summer. Kids helped out around the house, they took care of siblings and they entertained themselves. I completely agree that she should be reading. Libraries are free - but if she can't get to one, you can always pack a dozen books with her when she goes to his house. Other than that though, I think you need to quit looking down your nose at "rednecks/hillbillies" so your daughter doesn't pick up that horrible habbit.

Actually Bill, I believe that she does have a ligitament beef ... Forgetting medication, little or no food, unable to contact.

Azarae D. like I said earlier, you need to keep a log. Talk to your child, find out more details. Find out what she wants and let her know that what ever she wants, it is O.K. You will support her and help her.

Bill, I did re-read the posts & I don't "look down my nose" at her father & his family.

I've watched this man use & abuse young girls repeatedly since we split up 9 years ago. Currently he has 3 other children with a semi-retarded young lady who is in charge of "taking care of" my daughter.

I'm not wealthy at all, but I hold a job, go to college & raise my children & yes, they do chores here also(not be the maid or the babysitter though).

We don't have television either(don't even own one), I offer books, board games, walks, bike rides etc...this is not offered when she is with her father, they give a plate of food & that is expected to be "entertainment" & if I send anything in the way of clothing or books, it NEVER gets returned, I'm lucky he lets her bring back her shoes.

I wouldn't mind having just his mother's phone, but I leave messages & he claims "I didn't get them". That's when it becomes a problem to me.

I shouldn't have to(and DON'T want to) call 2 times a week for 4 weeks to finally get him to call back & set-up a drop off time & place because he won't discuss it at pick-up.

I'm sorry you seem to think I'm just being a jerk...I'm not. Not ALL men get the short end of the stick in FOC cases(many do though, I've seen it), in my case they let him get away with no support, no regular visitation at all, no running water or electricity at the place he takes my daughter to, her getting 3rd degree burns & him sending the bill to me...

I could go on for days, however until I know the address he lives at, how could I even report him to protective services..I've tried with no success.

Azarae D.

Next time he wants to see his daugther ... Only if I can drop her off at YOUR residence.

Excuse me if I am confused, but you keep adding major points with each new post. First your daughter was in a house with 4 adults. Your last post says she is being cared for by his semi-retarded young lady. Previously you never mentioned your daughter actually being injured - just bored. Now she has 3rd degree burns. You say she is bored because of no tv, internet etc and then say she doesn't get that at your house either.

If you are seeking advice about a custody issue with an internet forum or a lawyer or a friend of the court, I think it is in your best interest to stick with the important facts. Camp schedules, birthday chats, phone tag and boredom have nothing to do with whether you should try to revoke a custody agreement. Dangerous injuries, lack of proper medication distribution, inappropriate supervision by a semi-retarded individual are MAJOR, MAJOR important things to consider and document that affect the safety of your child. For some reason, you leave them out untill your motives are questioned.

BTW - Calling someone hillbillies, rednecks or the ever popular trailer trash is certainly "looking down your nose" at someone.

I don't know what you can do right this minute, but in future I would get your daughter a pre-paid cell phone so that she can contact you while she is with her father. It should not be that hard for her to find the address where she is staying: one piece of junk mail should be enough to pull an address, or even ask the postman. It might be a good idea to tell her the phone is only for her use, not anyone else in the home to use.

I think I'd be camping out at the MIL's place to follow him home and discover where he lives. Or hire an investigator to do that. I know, both those things are expensive but I would try hard to find a way to do them.

In Texas, a child must be 12 before they can choose not to go for visitation and have the courts agree to that. Sometimes it about killed me to turn my children and stepchildren over to parents that I knew would not care for them well, but I had no choice until they were old enough to refuse on their own.
j

good points everyone. Why dont you yourself a cell phone and give her the phone to take with her when she goes there. Can your daughter tell you where they went? Is it far? In the country? I would be a little worried if I didnt know where my kids where. As I said these are games he is playing.

I would get a cell phone, however the pre-paid ones will not reach the area he lives in(I've checked) & I don't have enough $ or credit to get a regular cell...let alone I could see him running up a bill on it just to spite me :(

I would love to get a lawyer to take the case but I always run into the lack of money situation, seems to be a common thing with full-time working college student mothers without independent wealth or a good credit line. :/

Thank you for all the constructive ideas everyone offered, I will use them as best I can.
I won't be back to this forum since there are a few who have made it a point not to read anything they don't want to see & I didn't come here to pick fights(I don't have time):/

Thanks again,

Azarae D.

My cusin has the same money and game playing ex issues as you seem to have. His belief ... He sends email, letters and calls the freind of the court with every issue that comes up. He said that legally the Friend of the court has to log all phone calls, letters and emails. Then every so often he goes back for additional custody time. He has managed to get it to 50/50 so far. We live in Michigan. Good luck.