Gel Stain v. Paint

15 years ago

I have new factory finished (catalyzed conversion finish) maple cabinets with a light "caramel" stain throughout my house. I'd like to turn these into a dark espresso color. I cleaned and lightly sanded and applied General Finishes Gel Stain in Java. In order to get the color dark enough, I needed to apply 2-3 coats and then used GF Gel Stain Topcoat. While I love the resulting color, the cabinets look painted rather than stained. So, I'm wondering: is there any advantage to using the Gel Stain v. painting on these maple cabinets? Is one easier to apply? Does one have a more long lasting finish?

I also had the original cabinet manufacturer strip and re-stain a sample door and, while I haven't seen the results, they told me the door looks painted (no grain visible).

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Comments (5)

brickeyee
15 years ago
Dark colors in pigment stains are about the same as paint.

Aniline dye is the most effective way to get dark colors and still have any wood grain showing, short of using faux graining.
User
15 years ago
Gel stain is closer to paint than it is to stain. Plus, by sanding lightly, you did not expose the bare wood---so any stain would simply sit on top of the finish---and act/look like paint.

On top of that, maple is so densely grained, oil based stains(which penetrate into wood fibers more than paint or gel stains) do not penetrate as deeply---which makes them look more like paint.

Basically, gel stains were developed for DIY use since most DIYers do not have the experience/equipment to use dyes/oil based stains easily or successfully.

I have no experience with gel based stains so I cannot say they will last as well as paint.
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It's easy to get a perfect finish on painted furniture when you spray it, but it's true it is hard to get it perfect without spraying. I would stain them if they were mine, just because maple looks great stained and stained furniture is easier to take care of, but this probably depends on what else is around in the room as well. If you stain, you want to stain, let dry, apply one coat sanding sealer and then at least one coat of poly. There are water based finishes on the market now but I don't like any of them. Lacquer can only be sprayed so. You want to lightly sand after the sealer coat because applying any first coat of finish on stained wood will raise the grain and make the surface very rough. The easiest way to apply stain is with a staining pad. Using gel stain or not won't make a difference to your wrist.
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I think I would try changing out the hardware and painting the background wall color above the cabs something dark like a rich chocolate brown. Or a deeper green. That would allow the lighter cabnets to really pop and take center stage. If that doens,t make enough of a change in the room for you then glazing may just be the right thing to do. I think with those cabs glazing could well be the answer your looking for if they were done with a base color thats opposite on the color wheel it would really help to cut the orange your not liking and glazing would be a easier option than a major allover color change. To get a solid color change that matchs on that many cabs would be more difficult then a glaze. I would def. try painting that upper background color first though. I think it would give that kitchen the pop of color it needs to really stand out.
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Gmp3 and Lazygardens-- Thank you both very much for your help. GMP3--I'm going back and forth between wanting them to look built-in, though I think that's still my preference. I was trying to save some money by finishing them myself. I've never used a sprayer so I'd probably hire someone. Any thoughts on what that might cost (I have no idea, so even an educated guess might help). Lazygardens--If I went with the natural maple (and it is very pretty, so it wouldn't break my heart to do this), do you have any recommendations for a topcoat (oil v latex/acrylic, method of application, even a brand you like) and should I apply a sealer/primer first? I know that Minwax makes aerosol cans of its polyurethene--any opinions about those? Many thanks!
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Take it from me, if you can afford new cabinets - do it! A fresh coat of paint or darker stain will definitely help, but you'll probably still be left feeling like your kitchen is somewhat dated. You have a great space to work with! I had the dreaded orange oak cabinets too, so I feel your pain. I couldn't afford new cabinets about 5 years ago so I painted mine. I didn't want dark/stained so I picked a soft gray color. By the time I put in new granite, BS, appliances, ect - well I should have just saved up and bought new cabinets. Oh well, lesson learned... But I DO love my kitchen after all the work. I love it wayyyyy better than my old space so I don't regret the decision to paint, it's just that my kitchen still feels dated so it's only a matter of time until the soffit comes down and I get new uppers... To sum it up, paint or stain will definitely improve the space. But new cabinets will make a bigger impact so if you can afford replacing everything then go for it. If you do paint, use quality paint. It's not cheap. I used BM Advanced paint. I won't use anything else going forward. I have found dried food on my cabinets and picked it off with my fingernail and the paint never chips or comes off. Here are two examples in my home. The first is my kitchen. I painted instead of replacing the cabinets. I love the space but it's not my dream space. before after Now here's my second example. This time we replaced the ugly oak cabinet. See what I mean by new cabinets making a bigger impact?
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brickeyee
15 years ago
Water based aniline dye is actually very easy to use.

The penalty is raised grain, but you can eliminate some of that by wetting the surface ahead of time, applying a wash coat of 1 pound cut shellac, then lightly sanding the surface.
The shellac will mostly be removed, and what remains is so thin it does not interfere with the dye.
It also helps with woods prone to blotching (pine, cherry).

Cover the surface, allow to sit a few minutes (with so much there is liquid on the surface), then wipe off the excess.

Allow to dry.

You need to mix the color you want, since adding another coat will not appreciably make the wood darker.

I use a scale that can weigh in grains (1/7000 of a pound) to mix dye at known concentrations for testing.
Say 100 grains in a quart of water.
Test on a small piece of the project wood.
If it is not dark enough add a measured amount (say 50 grains more) more to the quart and try again.

When the color is correct, make as much as needed up. A little more than you think you will need is a good idea, but if you weigh carefully you can make another batch that will match.

It is the extra steps (wash coat of shellac, light sanding, etc) that the various stain products try to eliminate.

There are 'non-grain raising' aniline dyes available.
They use alcohol (or even oil) as the solvent instead of water.
They tend to dry so quickly getting an even coat is difficult outside of a factory using spray equipment.

Moser has a large assortment of water aniline dye available from a number of vendors.
There are both mixed ('cherry', 'golden oak', etc.) and raw colors (burnt umber, burnt sienna, etc.) available from the larger vendors.
There are even color wheels available to mix the 'standard' colors (like cheery or oak) from the base colors. You can tweak the mix to your liking.
User
15 years ago
But, dye has to be used on bare wood---not wood with a finish.

My comment about difficulty has to do with mixing and application to vertical surfaces---plus the blotching and alcohol splotching.
brickeyee
15 years ago
"My comment about difficulty has to do with mixing and application to vertical surfaces---plus the blotching and alcohol splotching."

NGR (non grain raising) alcohol dye have always been a nightmare and is really only suitable for spraying in a factory setting.

Just use the water based aniline.

Splotching only occurs on a few species of wood.

Gel Stain v. Paint

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