OMG, what's up with this cell phone business. on one hand, i feel like let SS have that freaking phone so mom leaves him alone and let him enjoy vacation, on the other hand why does he even need a cell phone at dads house? he is way young to have cell phone to begin with.

should dad ask his attorney if he is obligated to allow SS to have a phone in his house? she is so crazy, punishing a child for NOTHING, she is mad at DH but punishing her child, poor SS

and i bet you if she allows him to go, she'll make it a nightmare by constantly calling, maybe your vacations should be always overseas so she cannot call or go broke from overseas phone calls

DH already did ask the attorney and no, there is NOTHING in the plan about it. All it says is "reasonable phone contact."

We have a home line that is seriously SS and BM's PRIVATE line. No one else has that number, DH and I both use our cell phones!

ANYTIME that phone rings, SS knows it's BM. And he is free to use it anytime he chooses, as well.

I don't know WHAT her deal is with the cell except---seriously--she thinks that she should be able to reach SS anytime she wants. She gets all bent out of shape if hours go by and she *can't talk to her baby.* I'm not kidding.

Example: two weeks ago, SS was in day camp from 9-4 everyday. Right? I picked him up at 3 and we rushed home and he took a quick shower/got dressed to get ready to go out to dinner/circus.

We had dinner and then the circus went from 7-10 pm. So it ws late. And SS talked to BM on DH's cell phone in the car on our way home. And then DH got a NASTY text from her about how she is DEPRIVED of contact to her son because she had not talked to him since 8 AM that morning.

HEAVENS.

It's seriously unreal.

So how many times does she think she needs to call SS if he does have his cell with him 24/7? She already calls him 2 to 3 times a day and that's with no cell.

Has DH called his lawyer and inquired as to what his options are? Any consdieration as to going back to court and modifying on the 'I must reach my child any damn time I want to'?

If DH allows SS to have home on SS person's 24/7, I think it's reasonable to still have set number of calls. Little things like who is responsible for cell (charged, lost, broken, ran up minute usage/texting). Nothing so far saying the poor kid has to actually turn the thing on if he does carry it 24/7...what if DH turns volume off? Can't hear it ring, can't be bothered with it. I suppose then BM would call DH screaming. How many times a day is reasonable in BM's opinion. Is it the fact she can't reach him when you're not home? At 3 am in morning? Or does she really want to call nonstop and talk hours and hours whether child wants to talk or not?

This is the BM who is jealous of vacations...any chance this will blow over after the vacation and she'll settle down?

DH has considered allowing SS to have the cell phone but saying it needs to stay at home.

BM already got it. She bought it about a month ago, and tried to--actually DID---send it with SS but DH had already told her he was not going to allow it. That's it's unnecessary, SS is too young, all those things.

BM dropped the issue but I think now she sees an "in," a way to get DH to back down.

Her line of thinking, and what she has said, is seriously that SS is HER SON and she has the RIGHT to be able to reach him at any time. I think a big part of her issue during the summer is that she gets really jealous that SS is with me during the day on our weeks, doing fun things---going swimming, to the library, out for snowcones or ice cream, hanging out w/friends, etc. And even when we're just home hanging around the house, she still gets jealous that he is with me.

It's d*mned if I do, d*mned if I don't. If I were refusing to care for him during his time with us, and making DH take him to BM's during the day, BM would be complaining about what a horrid SM I am. But because I do love and care about him and treat him as my own child when he's with us, she's jealous about THAT.

I think it seriously makes steam come out of her ears. Instead of being HAPPY that her son has two families/homes that love him. You know?

Anyway, I think she gets really jealous/insecure/threatened and she HATES the fact that she can't call him and get a hold of him whenever she wants. It's almost like she has to REMIND him--with her constant calls---that SHE is his mother. Like he might forget about her. Honestly, the woman has some serious emotional disturbances. She is SO dependent on her son, so needy, and it's really damaging to him.

Plus, I think there is an element of control to it, too. She wants us to feel like she's there in the background, on the periphery, at all times.

Which, honestly, is precisely why I dislike the cell idea. I can't tell you how uncomfortable it would make me to be driving down the road or in the grocery store with the kids, or at the bookstore, whatever and SS's on the phone with his mom. It's like BM would be able to have total access to ME and MY schedule. It makes me uncomfortable.

I don't care nor does DH, really, if SS has the cell phone at our house and it just stays in his bedroom. But when DH suggested THAT alternative to BM, she nixed it. THe only reason she wants SS to have it is so she can reach him whenever she wants, regardless of where we are or what we're doing.

I do think it will blow over eventually, it always does. I just hope she doesn't cause a huge THING about this vacation. In our experience, BM is 99% talk. She threatens and huffs and puffs but rarely does she ever DO anything.

Hoping that's the case now.

I'm so sorry.

I think we tend to expect people to act like reasonable, rational beings even when we never have known them to do so...

& when you respond like a reasonable person, you lose.

The time is too short to argue;
hubs can just agree to whatever it takes, & go have a good time on vacation.

He doesn't even have to decide what his long-range plan is right now;
he can just put this phone problem on the "things to do when I get back home" list.

(& I'd bet a Coke her lawyer didn't tell her to pull this kind of stunt.)

I wish you the best.

ps: document, document, document.

how does she even have the time for all this, she has two little kids at home, i wonder if she is as crazy dependent on them as she is on SS

Say yes to letting him bring the cell phone and then just turn it off and put it in the glove box until you take him back to BM's.

The police can't get involved in custody matters. They can't force anyone to hand a child over regardless of what the custody agreement says.

If someone is violating custody you have to take them to court. It's not a criminal matter so they really can't do anything.

Its a total control issue ...

all 3 of my SK's have cellphones that mom pays for ...SD doesn't do anything without it ... bathroom shower dinner etc..

SS13 doesn't even charge his
SS15 mom takes it away as punishment ... then she calls the house phone 10 times a day to talk to him

its all about control

hahaha take it and "lose" it on vacation must have left it in the rest stop in Montana!!! :)

oops left it on the counter...

Two choices really ... take it and lose it or refuse to take it and let her tell SS he can't go

BM freaked so much about phone access she had it put in the order for "unrestricted access" ... so if at 3 am SD wants to call mom she does ... but now that mom has a BF she doesn't want 3 am phone calls or calls while she is playing pool or just plain busy .... when she was on a mission to get SD hopped up on pills to get a check ... she "didn't mind all the phone calls" ... now she doesn't answer the phone and SD yells at me for not allowing her to talk to her mom .... and yells at me about court orders ...

SCREAM all you want ... I hear your frustration loud and clear!!!!

I HATE cell phones!!! worst invention EVER!!! (for kids)

I'd let him have the cell phone at your house but have a set of strict rules on usage...

No phone during meal time.
No phone during bedtime.
No phone during homework time.
No phone during family time.

The phone is turned off during those times & BM can leave a message. Allow SS a time period to return calls.

I agree with psuedo... kids lose phones all the time... they abuse them... call everyone & talk forever, running up minutes... etc. "oops, he must have lost it." and again, reiterate that he is TOO YOUNG to have a cell phone. (and let her buy as many as she wants... but the rules for using them are posted in your house & she CAN'T change them.) Period.

Also, might want to point out to her that while the cops may not enforce the order, some courts will look at those actions as not in the best interests of the child. It could backfire & cause her to lose time/custody of SS if your DH decides to bring her back to court. After all, he can't let her blackmail him into running YOUR home. The issue wouldn't be that SS missed his vacation... it would be that his mother thinks she can undermine his father's rules & blackmail him into doing what SHE wants by using the child... and directly violating the court order. She's playing with fire.

on second thought... if DH gives in, it might send a message to SS that his mom has some control over dad/dad's house.

It bothers me that SS was pleading with his dad to go along with it... she's involving the child in every possible way.. using him as leverage, using him as a messenger, manipulating him to believe dad is in the wrong for not giving her what she wants.

Now, no matter what dad does... if he gives in, or resists... it's not gonna be good. ugh!

Yeah, Ima, I thought of that too. It's just not a good lesson to teach a kid...intimadation and manipulation to get your own way. The child is still young enough there's hope of showing him different ways of dealing with people. Dad has been working hard to get out of the control BM has over him (I don't think I'll ever forget when Love wrote her DH wants to know when she is going to 'get over' BM attacking her).

I'm feeling Love's frustration here. Who the heck wants some nosy controling lady calling when your'e having a good day out with the kids 'what are you doing'? , 'what did Love say when I called you an hour ago'? 'where are you now'.

That's just not acceptable behavior on any level. Its an attempt to control Love's day, an attempt to insert herself into a home she can't actually be in. Seriously, what if SS does not want to answer the phone? Say he's at the pool having fun and Love yells out that his phone is ringing? Does BM accuse SS of ignoring her? Does BM call and rip Dad because she thinks SS does not have phone as she's demanded? SS's in the movie house watching some movie and the establishment requires all cell off...but BM is trying to call SS during those 90 minutes.

Even if DH gives in and let's SS have the cell, I don't see how it solves the issue. BM can and will read anything she likes into why the in possession phone goes unanswered and go all crazy about it. And the poor kid, I somehow picture a flash to the future where I see his cell ringing and he smiles and pitches the damn thing in the river and waves 'bye-bye' to BM with a gleeful laugh...or the other extreme where SS klings to his phone 24/7 in fear and panic SM will call and he'll miss her call and BM will be all crazy over it.

No parenting plan, divorce degree, or judge ever intended 'reasonable' would mean this.

if dad does not give in and mom decides to keep SS from going on vacation, SS will always blame dad. even though mom is the one creating this nonsense, dad could be easily portrayed as the one not flexible and stubborn and not having best interest of SS. now of course judge wouldn't see it this way but SS would, under his mom's guidance. BM knows what she is doing.

--"BM knows what she is doing"--

I believe this is so too. SS is going to blame Dad for not going on vacation. I really think I'd have to be in the situation to know exactly what and how I'd do this. I thinking two can play the 'prove' who has SS the week before vacation day. I'm thinking if that's the game, who is to say you must even take SS home to BM the week you're set to go. Kinda senseless game BM is playing.

Did the 'I must call my son whenever and wherever I want' kick in heavier after DH started taking BM's calls and texts less and stopped jumping to her silliness? Is this when BM started the calling of son more and more? If so, would seem as since BM could no longer pull DH's strings she's attempting to yank SS's ...bent on controling one way or the other.

No matter what DH decides to do between now and vacation day, I do think if I were he that I would make it very very crystal clear to BM that I intend to approach the court or modification and clarification on this calling crap. That I intend to relay the threats and intimadation attempts to make me bend to BM's will...that I either do as she say or she will hide my son from me. I do believe that between now and vacation that I would likely have my lawyer send a letter to BM addressing my communication concerns and intent to file for modification on the current standing agreement plan/order. I do believe when it comes to push vs shove I could and would come out kicking. At no time has DH refused to allow BM contact and true reasonable and/or above reasonable contact...there simply is no justification for BM's recent demands and actions or threats of actions. It is intrusive into the father's time with child, the child's time with his father and absolutely totally unreasonable and borders on mental health issues that may need to be addresses. Is this appearingly 'sick' lady fit to have her son 50/50. Is the 'sick' woman and her behavior affecting her son in a unhealthy manner that is endangering the mental well being of this child?

All thoughts and possible questions I'd be willing to put forth to a judge. Mom's playing a dangerous game that could blow up in her face. What child should have to say 'Dad, give Mom her own way so she will leave me/you the heck alone, allow me to visit you and not hid me'.

I'd also try to get as much of this exchange between DH and BM on either text or email so there is prove/documentation that can not be he said/she said and based only on who is 'telling the truth' of what is transpiring.

"No parenting plan, divorce degree, or judge ever intended 'reasonable' would mean this."

So true indeed. I'm so tired of that d*mn word! I, for one, would so much prefer, and I know DH would, as well, if the parenting plan spelled out 1 call per day = reasonable. Or whatever.

HA. It was so funny because THEN she had the nerve to tell DH that she KNOWS for a fact if my DD were going to her dad's house, I would want her to have a cell phone.

DH just laughed and said he was absolutely sure as long as I had some way (home phone or bio-dad's cell phone) to reach my DD, I wouldn't care what it is. And then he added in that if DD were spending time with her dad, I would NOT be calling every day, either.

And I KNOW I wouldn't. There's just no way. I wouldn't feel the NEED to do that, and I also know that DD wouldn't NEED to talk to me that often. My DD often spends the night at friends' houses, or w/grandparents and I don't typically talk to her during those times. She went to her friend's family's lake house for three nights with only one call. I talked to the mom a couple times to make sure all was well, but that was it. I DON'T NEED TO TALK TO HER EVERY DAY. Nor does SHE need to talk to ME every day. I'm positive my DD could go away to summer camp for two weeks and be perfectly fine and happy without talking to me at all.

I think the only thing I would need to do if she were with her bio dad would be to know she was okay. IE---if I hadn't heard from her in a few days, I think I'd probably want at least a text from HIM saying all was well. But my relationship with DD is just soooo different from BM's with SS.

And it's sad, so sad. Because the two kids are night and day. My DD is so independent, confident and happy. SS is fearful, anxious and....honestly, as sad as it is to say, he's UNhappy. He lives in a constant state of anxiety. :-( And it's so IRONIC because so much of it stems from BM smothering him with what she perceives as love. And she thinks it's great! Like, oh, I just LOVE my baby SOOOO much, he needs me so much, I need him, our hearts are SOOO connected. If SS were calling her a hundred times a day, she'd be delighted.

But it's such an unhealthy connection, such an insecure bond. The strongest form of parental love IMO is giving your children appropriate independence and watching them grow and gradually spread their wings step by step. I have no greater JOY than to see my DD blossoming and growing. I love how confident she is. I'm proud of that fact and I like to think it's at least partly because I've been a solid parent to her.

I know that she has a much *easier* life than SS in that she lives in one home. But I really think the BULK of SS's *issues* come NOT from going back and forth but from his mother and her emotional problems. I really do.

"if dad does not give in and mom decides to keep SS from going on vacation, SS will always blame dad."

Exactly. That's what BM has done---totally on purpose, as well. She's made DH into the bad guy with SS. Like it's HER and SS versus DAD.

I feel so bad for DH. And I'm with y'all: part of me thinks DH should relent and agree to the phone but just put, like Ima said, tons of restrictions on it at our house. Phone stays in the bedroom. Phone gets turned off after 8 pm. No phone calls during meals. ETC.

BUT the other part of me agrees that if DH does THAT, it's especially problematic because it's showing SS that BM has control over what goes on in our house. And like someone said, it's showing SS that manipulation and bullying is the way to get what you want.

"Did the 'I must call my son whenever and wherever I want' kick in heavier after DH started taking BM's calls and texts less and stopped jumping to her silliness? Is this when BM started the calling of son more and more?"

Sort of. DH responds to her more than he was for awhile. BUT he doesn't respond unless it's something that requires a response and, I guess, due to that fact, her calls/texts to him have dropped in frequency.

So, yes, I do think there is an element to that. That she can't reach/manipulate DH as much so she's now moved onto SS.

But---I hate to sound like this is all about ME because it's not---there is her issue with me just the same. Over the last six-nine months, she's periodically tried to get me to talk to her. She even complained to the counselor, with DH present, that I won't forgive her and she's tried to be "friends' with me again.

About six months ago, she flat out asked DH if I could call her/talk to her about some stepfamily issue SHE was having with her SD and SD's mom.

And DH didn't even ask me, he just told BM that was completely inappropriate and absolutely I would not be talking to her.

And, like the emotionally immature woman she is, she got angry---probably because her feelings were hurt. Like, oh I know I pulled Love's hair last time we had a playdate and broke her toys, but I'm nicer now and I don't understand why she won't come out and play!

Seriously.

She still has SO much animosity towards me. DH even said how disturbed he was by it a couple months ago. She is SO angry/threatened by the fact that SS is with me during th day. DH kind of threw his hands up to me and said he doesn't get it but BM is just totally hostile/resentful towards me.

so I think the cell factors into THAT. Because she was NOT making it an issue during the school year but now that it's summer and SS's been out of school for six weeks, it's become a problem again. Because she knows SS is with ME during the day and for some reason, that just gets under her skin like you wouldn't believe.

I miss my Dd. Not allowed to talk to her for these same reasons and complaints. it's been a week and I'm still not used to it yet.

Sorry you have a lot of stress with Bm/SS, hope it gets worked out before your vacation.

"I miss my Dd. Not allowed to talk to her for these same reasons and complaints"

I'm sorry myfampg. I hope you know I do NOT at all consider you on par with SS's BM. Not even close. Of course you want to talk to your DD and what ex-DH and SM are doing to you IS restrictive and IS denying you contact with your child.

It's wrong. :-(

I think the difference here is that BM does talk to her son at least twice a day already when he's with us. She has NEVER even gone a day without talking to him EVER EVER EVER. She is completely different from you in that, with her, it's never enough...one call a day isn't enough, two calls a day isn't enough, I really don't know what would be enough in her eyes.

It's totally different and I hope you don't think I'm saying SS should not tallk to his mom or that his mom shouldn't talk to him. I just think it's beyond excessive in our situation and it's not even really about the calls, it's about BM wanting to control DH/me/our home.

(((HUGS)))

I just read all of the posts and just decided to stop once I could
No longer see through my tears. No I'm not Love's crazy BM but I am a Bm that is being treated in the same way every single response has suggested to handle the phone issue. Take the phone, 'loose' it on vaca, turn it off and hide it.

This whole, keep the child from talking to mom thing is possibly the cruelest thing someone has ever done to me. I get a little more numb as the days go on. I know someone else that is going through this and MY biggest nightmare has come true for her. She doesn't expect to talk to her kids while with dad either. She just accepts they are gone for 30 days.... Well she went all of 30 days without Hearing a word... But then they never returned on day 30. Can't find them, no answer, no one is home. It's been 10 days since
They were supposed to come home and no one knows where they are. She has no idea IF they will come home or iF she will ever talk to them again.
I don't know what I will do if the day comes that I find out I'll never get to hear her little voice say 'love you mom' and I'm not sure how I will react to the people who kept us apart intentionally because they are jerks. I just want to talk to her.

I'm curious how many people that posted are biomom's and just curious how long they go without speaking to their biological children. I speak to my mom multiple times a day. I'm 30.

No love, I'm jealous of your SS Bm because she does get some contact. Sounds like too much. I'm hoping absence is making dd's heart grow fonder.
I didn't mean that YOU were doing anything wrong, I agree with the constant calls and interferring is wrong, it's the responses to how to deal with it that hit close to home for me because those are exactly the things that are working for my dd's father and wife. maybe I am crazy

Oh myfam....(((HUGS)))

Again, I am so sorry! I do not AT ALL think what's being done to you is right. And DH would NEVER prohibit contact from SS to BM or vice versa.

I am totally serious when I say HER calls ARE intrusive and often upsetting to SS.

It's just not the same situation at all. I am not some mean, cruel sM who thinks BM has "np right" to speak to her son. NOT AT ALL. I took SS on vacation BY MYSELF last year and I made SURE he called his mom, per her request, TWO TIMES a day.

I understand--not b/c I've been there but because I am a mom and I can totally imagine how awful it would be to be kept from my child.

I am so sorry it's happening to you. But please don't think that DH/I are doing that to SS's BM.

It's apples to oranges.

You are the victim in your situation--I would never ever say or suggest you should go thirty days without talking to your child. I personally think the def. of reasonable could be construed as once per day.

Myfam, I am almost positive everyone on this board empathizes with you and does NOT think what your ex and SM are doing is right.

It's a different situation. You aren't emotionally abusive to your DD. Your calls aren't upsetting to her.

We are all on your side completely!

No no no no worries there Love. I don't think that about you at all. I know -- two complete situations -- apples to oranges I concur

MyFam, I don't see any comparing what is going on with your DD to what is being asked here about Love's SS. Love's SS can call his mother without any questions asked anytime he wants to...he is not crying for two days because Mr. Love/Love are denying him communicating with his mother.

I find nothing wrong with this OP's SS/his BM (or in your case, DD/you) having reasonable contact...even daily contact. Maybe even especially daily contact if that is what child needs and desires. No child should cry to be allowed to talk to his opposite parent. No child should be told 'we don't have the number' or flat out just refused to be able to.

A phone to say 'good morning/goodnight' is fine. Perhaps I'd go farther there to say, it's fine but should be at set times and/or up to child when the calls are made. Example, busy at seven today, but will call his/her parent as soon as the child is unbusy. Maybe even a quick text 'I will call you later, thinking of you and just wanted to let you know I'll call later'.

With all that said...no child should have to have a cell attached to their body 24/7 so the opposite parent can call them any time they please, and how ever many times they please daily, day in and day out. No child should be made to feel guilty if they don't call a parent daily. No child should have to feel guilty if they are on a outing and are not available to take/make a call to opposite parent.

Above lies the difference between Love's case and yours. Your Dd should be allowed to phone home...she is denied. Love's SS should be allowed to phone home, he is allowed without monitoring and set number. If Love's SS wants to call his mom, he walks to the phone and does so. If your DD wants to cal you, she's told no.

I'm sure that if Ex Myfam were to allow calls, MyFam would have even sense not to call over and over. Would not call during the dinner hour. Would not call Dad hysterical if child did not return call immediately. Would be thrilled to death just to call even every other day...heck would even do hand stands just to et a text once a day 'still ok Mom, thinking of you'.

Little Myfam is expected to pretend her mother does not even exist during the entire time (a couple days, a week or a month), not her mother, but also her SF and little brother. Not so for Love's SS. The cases are just not the same.

MyFam, my heat breaks for the way your daughter is totally and completely denied contact with you while she's at her father's house. It's wrong. On the other hand I depise the way Love's SS is made to feel he must be available to be reached by his BM 24/7 in an attempt to control their household. Threating to hid child and deny vacation unless she gets her 24/7 way is sick.

Not at all what is going on in MyFam's case. I absolutely believe if MyFam were allowed just a few calls a week, she'd be happy and appreciative. Sure she's miss the daily contact, but she'd respect that this is Dad's time and she can't rule his home.

I've said before, my GS has his own cell. He can call his parents with it anytime he wants. He can take their calls anytime he wants, but his parents do not feel a need to abuse this. Yes, calls go back and forth, our family has no problems with phoning/communicatiing. I have also said that my GS has turned his phone off all by himself on occassion. It's his choice.

It's been like a week today for MyFam with no word or contact with her daughter. That's ridiculous and is not reasonable. No one I don't think here is suggesting it is ok or normal. I think I was about 11ish when I went to church camp and went my very first week without talking to my parents. I missed them. I had fun, I was fine, but yes, I would have been happier if I could have called home a couple times. The second summer I went, I don't think I much noticed. Sure I was really glad when it ended and I was home. While the camp did not have phone usage (pre cell phones, don't know what the situation would be now) they did have post cards and stamps on our 'to bring' list and they gave us a few minutes each day to write and mail cards home if we so desired. We could also recieve mail from home. Mailed cards either way would reach the home/camp the next day. No one ever felt they were denied contact with their parent.

"I'm curious how many people that posted are biomom's and just curious how long they go without speaking to their biological children. I speak to my mom multiple times a day. I'm 30."

I am a biomom. I speak to my DD23 whenever I want to, and I want quite often. So does her dad. When DD was little I was able to speak to her any time i wanted to, so was my ex. I called his home phone or his cell and he called either my cell or my home and we could talk to DD any time we wanted to, if no one answered we left messages and our phone calls were returned. neither I nor ex were ever denied talking to DD. DD did not have cell phone until she was about 14, there was no need for her to have the cell phone at younger age.

To my understanding lovehadley's SS can talk to his mother any time she wants to unless of course it is midnight, she calls dad's phone and dad lets SS talk any time, SS could also use dad's phone to call his mom. It is pretty much how we have it with my ex (except we had no animosity). No one prevents SS's BM from talking to her child several times a day.

Your situation is entirely different. You are denied opportunities talking to your child. Your ex does not take your messages, does not allow DD talking to you on his phone and that's why DD must have cell phone, even with that your ex violates court order and denies you access to your child. Your ex is a nasty jerk, pardon me. I hope he is nailed for it in next court session.

Sorry Myfam ... two totally different circumstances with phone calls ... you are not allowed contact ... this BM wants unrestricted over the top contact ... you just want "ONE" phone call she wants 100 ...

Update: situation escalated a bit today in terms of its effect on SS, but I think BM is backing down.

DH had asked her---since he had voluntarily GIVEN her his entire 4th of July holiday weekend---if he could get SS for the parade this morning; we go to it every year. BM said fine, so DH picked SS up at 8 AM and we went to the parade/party at our friends' home. Around noon, as we were driving home, SS said, "Dad, I really want to go on our vacation but I don't think my mom is going to let me."

DH told SS to not worry about it, that he and his mom will work it out and SS doesn't need to feel stressed or worried.

SS said, "Yeah, but my mom keeps telling me she doesn't want me to go because she can't live without me."

UGH.

DH told SS that next time his mom says something like that, SS should say, "Mom, I really don't want to be in the middle. Can you please talk to my dad about this?"

Anyway, SS was clearly upset and pressed on with DH. He said, "I want to go but I just don't think my mom can live without me. She said what a big help I am with my little sisters. And eight days is too long for her to be away from me." THEN he proceeded to say that his mom's husband is "fat and doesn't do anything to help."

Pretty sure this is one of those "little pitchers have big ears" deals.

Double UGH.

WHY OH WHY is she like this to him? I don't get it. :-(

DH finally said, "SS---do YOU want to go?"

"Yes!"

"Then tell your mom that. Your mom loves you very much and at the end of the day, I think she will do what's best for you because she loves you."

SS said he already did tell his mom he wants to go on the vacation.

So, anyway, around 1 pm today, DH took SS back to his mom's house and when BM met him at the front door, she asked DH what our dates for the trip are again. In front of SS! DH told her and he told me she just nodded and said "Okay."

I think that's a good sign!Fingers crossed!

SS will need years of therapy after childhood like this, this woman will make a neurotic adult out of him, poor child

"I DON'T NEED TO TALK TO HER EVERY DAY."

That's your perogative, however, if I were to be separated from my child I would call each and every day. I talk to my own mother every day as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. To each her own...

Regarding the cell phone, maybe it's not a control issue for her. Maybe it's a fear issue - what if something happens to him, etc. I'll admit that I am sometimes overly cautious - DH recently took BS to a parade. I gently reminded him to keep his eyes on BS all the time and not let anyone steal him. Yup, I'm a bit bizarre but I felt that if I didn't remind him of that little helpful tip then perhaps something bad might happen! It really wasn't a control thing, maybe more like a psychological issue of my own!!!!!! And since he's stuck with me, he has to deal with my peculiarities!

I could see your point lonepiper, this mother is anxious about her son. I just think this mother is traumatizing her child by being so anxious all the time. I do agree that there is nothing wrong talking to your family often, in fact I think it is healthy.

"That's your perogative, however, if I were to be separated from my child I would call each and every day. "

I totally know what you mean, lonepiper.

I think the issue, however, is that BM already does talk to SS AT LEAST daily. She always talks to him at bedtime, and I don't see anything wrong with that. She usually talks to him at some point throughout the day/evening, as well.

It's not that I think her daily calls are bad. I get it, I understand. It's the five or six other calls that become a problem and her expectation that she should be able to reach SS at any point whenever she wants, regardless of what HE may want or what HE may be doing.

But at some point it becomes intrusive of DH's time and SS's time with our family. KWIM? It is a situation in which it becomes about what's best for BM when it SHOULD BE what's best for SS.

If SS were wanting to talk to his mom, that would be one thing. But he's not. It's HER calling and, for lack of a better word, harrassing/intruding. It would be one thing if she called, left a message and said, "Hi, hon, it's mom---hope you're having a good day, call me when you want or can."

But that's not what she does. She calls back. And back. And back. And so on. And then gives SS guilt trips when he does return her call or answer the phone about why hasn't he called her, she misses him, blah blah.

It's crap parenting IMO.

fingers crossed for tomorrow Love.

5-6 times a day is too intrusive and obsessive. i think anything more than one is nuts.

That's it exactly Love. (in general, imo,) The kids should be able to call their other parent ANY TIME THEY WANT. The absent parent should be able to call once a day to check in. Anything more by the absent parent and it's fracturing the time spent with the present parent.

hahahha and bust out your ice skates 'cause hell just froze over. PO1 and I just agreed twice in the same day ;)

LOL silvers

My best friend's mother calls her several times a day (usually with demands), my friend is in late 40s. Her grandma did the same when she was still alive. It was nonstop calling to work, home, cell. My friend is high school vice-principal, clearly cannot be answering the phone at work. But they don't care, they also publicly embarrass her with phone calls and messages. When they could not locate her, they would call me to ask where is she.

I wonder if love's SS's BM will harass him like this when he is grown up, she probably will

Sorry I haven't kept up with this thread because I didn't see it for a few days. As far as Love's ss's BM being anxious and overly cautious, we discussed this with dd's therapist, our family therapist and my personal therapist. If I am anxious, Dd will be anxious. She will feed off of me no matter how long we have been apart because we are connected. I have no doubt this BM and her son are connected since they do talk so much BUT she is annoying him. What is going to happen is she is neurotic like my mom and she is anxious and she 'worries' and with him being a boy, he is going to grow up like my brother and push his mom away because she drives him nuts. My mom is this way with me but I think because I am a mom and I can understand her fears, I deal with her and accept her and I 'humor' her on most days and say 'ok mom thanks for the reminder, I love you'. My mom watches too much local news and calls me constantly to tell me when a toddler has died from being left in the car. Last week one died because he crawled into the family car and got trapped.. So she calls crying reminding me that even though my car is in the garage I need to lock my car doors. Also called me yesterday to tell me that I need to make sure DS doesn't sneak out the front door because she heard of a boy going out in the middle of the night and getting lost ... Wow huh? She makes me a nervous wreck sometimes with her anxiety but I just love her and accept her. My brother cannot stand her. Breaks my heart.
This is going to be Love's SS one day because his mom is going to annoy him with her anxiety and her constant phone calls. Can you imagine him being in college and his mommy calling multiple times a day?

Now on the other hand, I get the impression that she is just trying to be in the middle of Love's family life and wants to know exactly what they are doing and with who and just wants to keep tabs. She wants to make sure that her son doesn't 'forget' about her while having fun with Love and Mr. Love. She probably would benefit from a Zanex or a Zoloft hell maybe even a tranquillizer to get her to calm down.

BM is also an alcoholic, that does not help

as about anxious, i think that i am not overly anxious yet DD says that I am and I am catching myself saying things like "lock the door", "make sure you have a coat on". DD makes fun of me

but then my grandpa used to say up until his death of old age: "be careful crossing the street". he was saying it to my mother who was in her 40s when he died. and he said it every time my mother was visiting them. i think it was cute, not annoying

I think this is where my family uses texting. It's basically a way we say little things back and forth without really interupting what else may be going on in the other's day. Sometimes it's just to share something exciting or something silly that we know the other will get a laugh out of. My sister sent me an out of the blue pic of her first ripe tomato in the garden. Could I have lived my day without seeing this? Of course, but sister was so pleased she just reached out to share and knew I'd be happy for her. This is the sister who kills plants because she has forgotten to water or did not plant correctly blah blah. Yep, I was excited as she over that pic as she's really tried hard this year to 'get it right'.

Yes, my 34 yr old son gets a head up on highway conditions if we know DS is heading out and DH has just made it in. One drives 35 miles one way to work, the other 20 and both open highways through rural settings. Yep, texts go back and forth 'I made it'.

Youngest son, 24, and niece, 25, drive abt 25 miles into work. This winter during our blizard conditions texts went back and forth between us all. Yep, this one in, yep now this one too and on and on it went until as our family as a whole knew we were all safe and sound. It's just my family's way. Nobody finds it being annoying, but than we are a close family and all live within an hourish of each other.

And yes, texts went back and forth between GS's BM and us too. Texts went back and forth during my mother's three surgeries this summer. CC'd most and a couple got individual messages. Texts make it so we can stay in touch, write what needs to be said and answers or responses can be sent at receivers leisure.

PO1, 'dont forget to wear your coat'? My grandmother use to say to me as I came in without one ' honey, don't you have a coat' and would run to her purse and start getting out cash to buy one LOL. "Of course, Gma I have a closet full I just did not have enough sense to put one on today". Then she'd make me a cup of tea and mumble about how I would catch my death.

But I too think the BM in this thread is going overboard and in a way trying to control one house from another. Whether she's doing it deliberately or because she really does not have a clue how this affects her son and the rest of the household, I don't know. With what we've heard of this BM, I tend to think she has some mental issues (perhaps intensified by drinking). I think she obesses over the hours Love tends to SS by Love's self (going to steal her child's affections) and goes nuts in the evenings when Mr Love is home and BM's mind frets over the family unit going on without her. Whatever and why ever, what BM is doing is not normal nor healthy for those she inflicts herself on.

I might get a text photo from one of my kids just simply sharing something they though I'd find funny or enjoy.

yes she clearly is mentally unstable, I also think if she is an alcoholic and stopped drinking without any treatment or therapy or 12-step, she is struggling. Or maybe she did not stop, don't know.

my ss has been gone for three weeks now. My dh calls him on Sunday each week. That's it. He misses him but doesn't feel like he should intrude on her time. I never call my son when he's with his dad, though it's only ever weekends. We usually send little texts like jmt said. This bm is definately unstable. If she'd just take one xanex with her alcohol she'd be sooooo mellow... LOL!!! Though it's not reccommended. LOL!!