Men.......gotta love 'em! LOL! Sometimes they're slow, but eventually they catch on!!! Bottom line is he now gets it....that is big and will make a huge difference in your lives. It may simply be that he was leery about your objectivity and hearing it from a stranger has confirmed that it is what is right, not simply his wife's opinion....

Does stink that you had to "pay" for him to get it, but...some men never get it, and thankfully yours did! (If my husband didn't get it, I would not have survived in his life with his daughter and ex-wife.

Good luck!

How involved with your children is your husband? I get the impression from your posts that you are the primary parent, not only in terms of doing all the work, but also in terms of your relationship with your children. You mentioned that your SD helped out at the birthday party, but I don't remember your mentioning your husband. Does he read the kids bedtime stories, stay with them till they fall asleep, and play with them? Are you equally vested in your marriage and family?

Yeah, you gotta love it, lol! My fear is that he is going to 'get it' as long as someone is telling him to do so. I have an online group at Yahoo - a group to whom I'm very close and have been for years - and one of the women had an issue w/ her DH so they saw a therapist. I asked her, before we recently went (a few of them have urged me to drag him into counseling for the past couple of years), if things were still great since not seeing the therapist in awhile. She said, "Well, men seem to start out great, but I've noticed him slipping back to his old ways, little by little since we've stopped counseling. His communication has slowly but surely decreased over the months, but we're OK."

So, I think things do 'settle' back a bit, but hopefully we'll have some foundation now on which to base things.

BTW, I told the Dr. that we were planning to go away for a few days next week and said (in front of him, semi-joking), "Dr. M, tell him that the best anniversary gift to me would be to let me take the kids alone!" She said that we really needed this time to remove ourselves from the stress of the ins. co fire, the SD situation, work, kids (though they'll be w/ us) etc. and be in a nice environment. So, looks like he'll be along for the ride...it's a trip I'd have NEVER had booked had I realized how cash poor we were! Typical that he never mentioned how bad things were til they were about to collapse. The trip is largely on credit cards which stresses me out endlessly.

Anyway, thanks for posting,
Dana

Hmmm. That's a good one - how involved is he? Well, I have moments when I want to say, "Your ex didn't alienate YOU, YOU alienated yourself!" I'm kind of kidding on that one as I don't ever defend cheating on a spouse like that. But, he has moments of emotional unavailability, easily is absorbed in a sporting event on TV, etc. He's lucky in that I was also a former athlete and love sports. His ex pretended to, but didn't and later criticized his obsession w/ sports which I found funny. I mean, I'd never try to pretend I was a computer fanatic to impress Bill Gates, later marry him then complain that he's always on the computer! Don't get that logic at all.

My husband is a good guy - well-liked by all. I am better-liked by the staff, as he is tougher, and me, being a woman, is easier to talk to (which means complain to, cry to, etc.) Most outsiders probably see him as the nice one as I can yell a lot louder, lol. I laugh w/ the neighbors about that - they act like they don't know what I'm talking about, etc, but I think they've heard a few of my shrieks at him or the boys!

W/ the kids, I'm definitely #1 in their eyes. They want me to put them to sleep, drive them to school, etc. He will do fine when directed down to each final detail. Until very recently, they only wanted me to take them to practice - be it baseball, soccer, whatever. DH and I had a long discussion about that that I'll get into in a minute.

I gripe, as many other women I speak to do, about my having to always get myself dressed and the three boys while he's still taking his leisurely shower. He can't ever "speed things up" in anything. If he wakes up late, he won't rush around, he's just resigned to getting to the office later. It's something that annoys the heck out of me as he somewhat expects the world to wait on him. He's missed flights as has his grown son - the same attitude, but the son lacks my husband's work ethic.

W/ the kids, I can usually count on him to get their shoes on before school. I make breakfast, though DH is a much earlier riser - only seems to do a little paperwork and read the paper, make coffee in his early morning hours, however. It's nothing that helps me out unless it's the weekend and I can catch up on sleep - then he'll take the boys to McD's for breakfast and let me rest if we don't have any event to get to. The shoes are about it and in the time it takes him to put on three pairs of shoes, I'm getting dressed, make-up on, hair brushed, etc. I fly around the house in seconds, he's more the tortoise who never catched up!

He loves our kids, no doubt about it. Recently, a friend from his from his hometown came for a visit. Afterwards, I said, "Do you regret having this second family? Do you wish you could just up and take off like John just did?" He was offended by the question, but it was at the beginning of our recent bad patch. He raised his voice a bit, a rare thing for him, and said, "I'd NEVER want to be like him. He's lonely - I have these boys and I'd never want to trade them for a second for anything." I do believe him, but I'm sure that at his age, he wishes we had some $ in the bank so he could cut back on his schedule. It's tough, working for yourself - no real retirement (what we had was lost to the crooked contractor and in trying to rebuild w/o the ins. settlement from the fire.)

I told him a few months ago, that if he didn't start finding something in common w/ the boys, he was creating the same scenario he did w/ his grown son. They had nothing in common, and I feel his guilt about that (though he very much tried to be part of my SS's music and acting) has caused our problems re: this young man. DH tried to bond w/ him by buying him things. It was sad in that the kid had no conscience and had become a user. DH would attend each play, recital, anything. We once asked SS to go w/ us to a baseball game and he pouted the whole time, "This is so stupid. That guy throws the ball, that one throws it back. Why do you guys want to watch this?"

Anyway, I was angry that the boys wanted me to go w/ them, and me alone, to their practices. I was also worried that they weren't loving sports like us, lol, and I have to restrain myself from making them competitive like I was. I don't care where they go w/ it, but just hope they find something they love to occupy them in the teen years. When our oldest started soccer last year, he was crying on the field. Our neighbor was the coach and ran out there and asked what was wrong. He said, "I just want you to let my girlfriend play when I'm playing, then let us both be out together so we can be together." DH and I smiled, then, when out of hearing distance, laughed, "How can OUR kid care about the girl and not the ball?" He's a lady's man and that was when he was five, lol. The girls all love him as he's truly a beautiful kid, big green eyes, and a heart of gold.

(I'm the disciplinarian. DH will often 'tell' on the kids to me and I get so angry and yell, "Be the parent and parent them!" He doesn't seem to be the parent well to either his grown or small kids.)

Anyway, my point was that DH needed to make the time to be at practices, etc. So, this season he rearranged his schedule to be the asst. coach on the oldest's baseball team. What a difference in our son (though being a little older probably helped, too) who was the most improved this year on the team! He loved having Dad there and it was right up DH's alley. They bonded and are closer in all ways. But, I also had told him that he needed to either get a love for nature and wildlife (the boys are wild for it, I've always been an animal rescuer of sorts) or fake it or he'd never be able to truly reach them. So, he has done much better. He hasn't criticized the recent adoptees we've taken in and has somewhat embraced the pets to the boys' delight.

This morning, the boys and I went to a wildlife facility. You know about the party last week. In lieu of gifts, we asked friends to bring a small ($5) donation for the Wildlife Care Center, a place for abandoned, surrendered, hurt and abused animals. What isn't native to FL must be adopted out. True native wildlife is rereleased when possible.

Anyway, the center was having a function/tour today, and the boys and I weren't sure if Dad was game. We were all quite happy to see him dress and head out w/ us. The boys presented $300 to the center from their b-day party and we all posed for pics (my pics) w/ the staff who complimented our little ones on such an awesome sacrifice for the animals. And, Dad acted enthused about what he saw, what he learned, etc. The key to the boys' hearts is through critters. I told DH that he had to give a little, then they'd be more apt to want to enjoy his favorite pasttimes. It has worked. The key is also w/ our oldest as the younger two follow suit. The oldest is my clone to a large degree on an emotional level. He can be very stubborn, but has a good heart, though I never had a kiss til 17 and he's had quite a few at 7....

But, since he's been closer to Dad, the others have followed. The middle is the easiest going, so would go w/ Dad on rides at Disney easier while the others would fight to have me w/ them. Sometimes the middle would, but he's a gentler soul for the most part.

For the party, I did the lion's share. DH says that I'm a control freak - somewhat true. I mean, if anyone's going to mess up the cake decorating, it needed to be me, lol. He and SD assembled a cabana to shade the animals and did some yard clean-up, set up tables I borrowed from our church. But, DH is lazier than I am, also less stressed about the house having dust somewhere, etc. He usually does the grocery shopping - but never to completion (won't try to find shallots, for example, lol), and works 4.5 days/week to my 3. So, I have more time w/ the boys. He couldn't handle them w/o me, to be honest. He fumbles around, "Where's their pajamas?", etc. I yell, "We've been here a year and you still don't know?" Typical complaints from wives. I do the cooking, laundry, cleaning. He's supposed to clean the glass railings - he's done it once, maybe, then recruited SD to do it for the party....

Overall, he is trying, but there is a generation gap. He really got into the asst. baseball thing and enjoyed taking a little time off in the end of the work day for practices. He's very smart w/ sports and very positive to the kids. But, it's me doing the homework, unless he's specifically given instructions - and they have to be specific.

Sorry this got so long. I've pondered the same things. We'd be at the beach sometimes and he'd be playing w/ the boys, people commenting on how great he was, then the next time, he'd be sunbathing, falling asleep, and I'm chasing all three! So, he has his moments. We've done a lot of Disney living so close and too broke for a real trip and he was generally very good there.

Dana