We are in greater Chicago in a 1918 bungalow. We're a bit dryer than you, but rain is rain. We removed some awful vinyl windows and installed pine Marvin Ultimate Double Hungs. The performance issues you are concerned with will directly relate to weatherproofing, painting etc, not the type of wood. Our windows have been in place for nearly 3 years and they aren't warping - that's hooey to me. We haven't installed any extra weatherproofing - we have just that which came built into the windows. We painted the exteriors and stained the interiors and all is good. I'm assuming you're looking at double hungs that will also have storm windows? The storms are any window's first line of defense.

To me, a big difference between pine and fir is painting vs. staining. Fir is much easier to stain and have the color end up smooth. Pine has the tendency to look blotchy and you have to work harder to get the stain looking smooth.

I don't think the window guy is being quite on the up and up with his warping comment.

Hi, I have been entrenched in the window industry and I have definately had my share of questions like this before. I'll try to stick to the facts only, and then let you decide what you believe to be best.

1) Pine will warp just as bad as fir, or as little as fir, their is no difference. The major difference between fir and pine, as kec01 said, is the staining. Fir is definately a "prettier" wood and will stain up much nicer than the pine. That being said, their are two different types of grain you will find in fir windows, flat grain and edge grain. Flat grain occurs when the wood is cut parallel to the grain, you end up with a large "flat" grain pattern. Edge grain occurs when you cut the wood perpendicular to the grain which shows off the "edge" of the grain. Edge grain wood is more expensive and more desirable. If you are going to stain the windows then edge grain fir is definately the best choice. If you are going to paint the windows, pine would be the best choice as it is less expensive, and you are going to end up covering the grain anyways.

2) your window guy made a comment about how his windows are "TDL" This would be relating to the glass in the window. His windows are True Divided. This means that in a window with wood grilles you could potentially have 9 seperate pieces of glass in each window. TDL windows are outdated and as far as energy efficiency goes are not nearly as efficient as Simulated Divided Lites. SDL windows are constructed to look like a TDL window but use one large piece of glass with a "shadow bar" inbetween the two panes and an external wood or metal grille. Esthetically you can not tell the difference between the two windows, but you can tell the difference when looking at U values and Solar Heat Gain numbers.

3) Issues with Double Hung Windows. Double Hung windows will definately not be as efficient as a casement window, and they do not have the same ratings as a casement window either. In Canada the rating for windows are governed by the CSA - A440. This is a testing standard that major window manufactures test to. There are three ratings, A,B,C, highest value for A is 3, B is 7, C is 5. The higher the number, the better the window. A is Air Infiltration, B is Water Penetration and C is Wind Load (DP rating in the states). Traditionally a well constructed double hung window will rate at an A2, B2, C2, a well constructed casement will rate as an A3, B5, C4, smaller casements will rate at the max, A3, B7, C5.

4) Pine windows in the rain. All wood rots, it's a constant problem in the market place. JELD-WEN has created a treatment for their pine windows that allows them to warranty the windows for 20 years against any rot or termite infestation. The treatment is called Aurolast, and has recieved a ton of commendations and awards in the industry. On top of the 20 year warranty on the wood, JW will warranty their Custom Wood windows for 20 years against sealed unit failure, 20 years on the hardware, and 20 years against manufacturer defect, it is trully the best warranty in the business. If you do not want to use pine, they also produce the window with edge grain fir, mahoganny or knotty alder.

I live in southwestern BC (think of Seattle but north of the border) and these windows are awesome up here, I definatley believe that the JELD-WEN Custom Wood windows would be your best bet. if you go to www.jeld-wen.com and view their custom wood window section you can get a great feel for the product.

I hope this helps.

Canuck_1984's point number 4 struck a slightly raw nerve with me. We are planning a large addition with many wood casement windows. Our architect has specified Weather Shield windows and has advised us strongly to avoid Jeld-Wen Custom (formerly Pozzi) windows because of a recent manufacturing problem which has caused him interminable grief on another project. The problem had to do with bowing of sashes of all Pozzi windows on the project, possibly because of shipping over high altitudes from the factory in Oregon to the East coast region. (Presumably the windows contained argon sealed between the panes.) It did not affect the lower Jeld-Wen lines such as Siteline EX which are not made in West. Jeld-Wen says that the problem has been resolved, but our architect is not convinced. While Weather Shield windows are apparently very good, their warranty against wood rot is inferior to Jeld-Wen's Aurolast windows. When we ask our Weather Shield dealer about wood rot, he starts discussing how to paint wood windows properly (including repriming the already-primed exterior wood, etc.). So the mention of Auralast by someone who is probably a Jeld-Wen dealer or rep (as he takes the trouble to use all caps as the company does) makes me wonder whether the problem with the Jeld-Wen Custom/Pozzi line has really been resolved.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! Windows are complicated I see. I'm going to start asking warranty questions. And I didn't realize casement windows were more efficient.

I do like the look of all-wood, but we've recently heard that clad windows are the way to go when rain is an issue. Is that true? Could anyone comment on aluminum clad and rain?

kec01, does the white weatherstrip on the sides of the Marvin double-hung bother you? White is fine if you plan to paint the interior white but I wonder whether it would bother me when it's stained. And the Marvin dealer doesn't display examples of stained interiors.

Are those who've told you that clad windows are the way to go familiar with restoring old homes? I'm betting the answer is no, because in my experience, you'll do a much better job of preserving the value of the house if you stay with wood windows. Question - are you restoring this house to live in or to flip?

No, the white weather stripping doesn't both us because we stained right over it and it matches the windows. It can't be seen. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures to show this.

If you want to do what's true to the Craftsman style of the home, please don't get clad windows. And, yes, I'm an admitted purist when it comes to restoring old homes.

Have you thought about restoring the windows that are currently in the home? Or are they too far gone with rot? For fun, if you're interested, take a look at John Leeke's window restoration site and the attached article. At a minimum, it's very helpful for learning about windows.

http://www.restoreomaha.com/resources/SaveYourWoodWindows.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: John Leeke Window Restoration

For non-historic restoration projects I use a Marvin Double-Hung (or Eagle Talon) because they will provide an SDL aluminum clad sash in a wood frame with factory installed wood trim and extra thick sill.