I can't imagine there would be a theological reason to eliminate this! You DD might have some personal thoughts on it you might want to honor, but your parish ought to remember that Jesus didn't have ANYTHING to say about the wedding CEREMONY.

One of the parishes I know of in the Lutheran church (of which I'm a member--the Lutheran church I mean, not this parish, but the minister who performed the ceremony was from there and wanted to follow that rule) refuses to allow "here comes the bride" because of its source--a pagan opera. I didn't much care, it was too cliche for me anyway. If I'd really objected, I could have switched ministers.

I get pissed off at people who get all huffy about the bride not being property to be given away.

I don't want them putting all their hidebound ideas on MY wedding ceremony (or on someone else's). Just because it *used* to symbolize that, or because they THINK it symbolized or symbolizes that, doesn't mean it does.

I like the idea that the head of my birth family escorted me to join my NEW primary family. I like it that the first "most important" man in my life is taking me to stand beside the last "most important" man in my life--and in fact, transferring the responsibility, and the rights, tha tare his from being my father, to my husband. legally, if an unmarried person becomes ill, their father is their first "next of kin," w/ responsibilities that come along w/ it, and inheritance rights, etc. Once a person married, that "next of kin" status shifts to the spouse. To me, that's the big deal.

My suggestion for you: TALK TO YOUR GIRLS. Tell them what you wish, hope, etc. Tell them what that walk down (and btw, it is down, traditionally, to the altar, and up afterward) the aisle symbolizes you to, and why you're hoping to do it.

Then, go talk to your parish priest--they're supposed to talk to parishoners, right? Find out what the truth is, and how hard-and-fast they're going to be. And then speak up about what you feel, and wish.

I know the Catholic church is NOT a democracy, less so now than ever in my lifetime, but I still think members should not be silent.

They're picky enough about other stuff w/ wedding ceremonies, Catholics ought to just butt out of other stuff that doesn't actually have any theological meaning.

(and frankly, the RC church has been SO deeply traditional lately, and has has its own history of treating women as completely extraneous, that it would surprise me very much if an edict like this came from Rome)

If it is true, and not just a rumor, there may still be some options. Rather than get married at your church, your daughter and her guy could get married at her church, his, or his parents' church. I'd ask your priest directly to find out if these are hard and fast rules and if they are, then if they are parish or diosese rules.

I KNOW there are no rules regarding the gender of the tears-of-joy club members!

In my parish, the unity candle and "Here Comes the Bride" have been "outlawed" for a long time. The unity candle is excluded because it is not part of the Catholic liturgy of marriage. Because marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic church, the church doesn't permit changing the liturgy (or isn't supposed to, though some do). Second, the "Here Comes the Bride" issue is related in part to the story of Lohengrin, but also, another issue--again, in a sacramental liturgy, secular music isn't supposed to be used. Some allowance is made at some parishes for classical music that is not religious, but many pastors prefer religious classical music such as Ode to Joy.

As for dad's no longer escorting daughters down the ailse, I've never heard of that and it makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Talley Sue...your paragraphs 3, 4, & 5 expressed my feelings -- and those of my DD -- exactly!!! Thank you for expressing it so perfectly!

I don'tknow if this would be an acceptable alternative for you but there is an American Catholic Church, which is far more flexible about weddings. So many people are divorced now, or have other issues on which the RC church is not flexible, that many of them use this.

that sounds so much like radical feminist doctrine that I'm a litte appalled- the candle ceremony was one whose time obviously came and went (like the wine ceremony that predated it, and the ritual deflowering of the bride that predated THAT)

but the irony of the church, who created the ceremony to EMPHASIZE the role of women as chattel and the property of men... is now back pedaling on the most noble ritual ever to come out of that doctrine.

Talk to your daughters- they may very well have outgrown the need for the Holy See's approval, since none of us girls are much represented by the organization.

who knows- in Philly, they may opt for the simplicity of a ceremony with the Society of Friends...or they may have followed a different path than yours that they haven't 'outed' themselves to yours- there are a whole lot of possibilities before you find yourself approaching the guitar-playing barefoot churches out in the 'burbs ;)

Mary's Blessings on your family, love-

you're too good for the church.

I have seen a post or two about this on other boards and most are surprised to see it. I'm a mother of the bride and I've been in the military for 19 years. If there is someone who can get a little touchy about how women are perceived or treated, it would be me.
Having been a mother of the bride, as well as a bride myself, I think it is cruel and heinous to make a young woman walk that aisle alone! Talk about a time to have a loving arm there for you, and someone who loves you like no other. This is just ridiculous and someone needs to go have a talk with that church. How does your daughter feel about this?

I'm a wedding coordinator in the West. We are no longer allowed to have the father escort the daughter down the aisle, nor have the wedding march or a unity candle at Catholic weddings. Instead, the bride and groom enter together after the entrance of the wedding party. The priest enters first, then the wedding party members enter in pairs, then the bride and groom walk in together. This became the "rule" in my area last year.

For several years, even when the father was allowed to escort the daughter, he was not asked the question "Who presents this woman.." Instead, he simply placed her hand in the groom's hand.

The explanation given by one local priest is that there is too much emphasis on the bride in weddings today and not enough emphasis on the ceremony. They want to take the focus off of individuals and place it on the sanctity of the ceremony.

I agree with Softball_80 that walking a daughter down the aisle is a dream of many fathers and the church shouldn't deny him that opportunity. The focus can still be on the ceremony and not just on the bride if things are handled tastefully.

I have never heard of such a rule, but then again, I'm not a member of the RC church. Personally, I wanted both my parents to walk me down the aisle, since I was raised by two parents. DH and I really liked the Jewish traditional wedding procession in which both the bride and the groom get escorted down the aisle by both parents. So we talked it over with our minister, and he liked that idea too, so that's what we did for our processional.

You can always talk it over with your daughters and your priest. Perhaps if you opt to have a ceremony outside of the church (i.e. a hotel, ballroom, etc) perhaps you wouldn't have to follow the same rules as if you were having a mass in your church? (But would still have the blessing from your priest?)

I think you may be getting a little ahead of yourself here. If I understand you correctly, your church is only considering these rules; they may not adopt them, or they may just make them suggestions, or who knows what. More important, you don't have anyone getting married yet! So I'd wait to worry about this until you have a daughter who wants to get married, to a Catholic, in that church, on a date that is available, etc., etc., etc. ....

Also, remember that when the time comes, one or more of your daughters may have different ideas, too. Your post only talks about how you feel:

"I can live with ..."
"It has been a dream of mine ..."
"The one that rubs me the wrong way..."
and even
"As far as I'm concerned, it's a dealbreaker!!!!!"
(What does that mean? No marriage? Or just not at that church? If the latter, then what's the problem anyway?)

The closest thing to any indication about how the potential brides feel about this (never mind their future fiances) almost suggests that you suspect they won't want to include this custom:

"I just hope my girls will back me up ..."

It sounds like you are a sweet, sentimental father with a loving relationship with a happy family. So why worry now instead of enjoying that? As my wise grandmother always said, "Don't worry about Thursday on Tuesday." When the time comes, there will be much more important things anyway. Believe me, if you don't like the men they choose for you to escort them to, it won't make you any happier if you can walk them down a hundred aisles (in fact, the experience wouldn't be at all what you've dreamed, would it?). But if they choose great guys that will be good to them and that fit into your family like they've always been there, no detail about the wedding, no matter how cherished a fantasy it was, will reduce your happiness one bit.

Be sure to tell us if your daughter's boyfriend does turn out to be "the one"! I sure hope so, because it sounds like you like him. Good luck!

I was married in a Roman Catholic Church back in 1980 and the wedding march was not allowed, nor had it been for many years -- that part is not a new rule. As far as having a parent walk the bride down the isle, as of 3 years ago I saw it done at my nephew's wedding.

Please, before you accept anything as a done deal, check with your priest about the liturgical rules. Some parishes have designated people to help coordinate weddings that could rival any dictator for controling behavior. Don't sit back and just accept what you are told about "how it is done now."

Best wishes!

Many priests who have left the priesthood are still able to perform a Catholic wedding ceremony, they just don't celebrate Mass. I have been to many of these weddings where one person of the couple is divorced or otherwise not acceptable to the RC church for marriage.

Oh, boy. I'm a Catholic. About three years ago, someone very involved in all the liturgical changes that are going on told me that major changes were coming to Catholic weddings. He didn't give me any details. I never thought that the traditional walk down the aisle would be eliminated! No wonder he warned people to get married right away if they wanted a typical wedding. The main focus of the changes is to bring attention away from the bride and on to the religious aspect of the ceremony.

Gellchom has some very good advice. Check with your priest to see exactly what is going to happen to the rite of marriage. The changes may not take affect for a few years and they will vary from diocese to diocese, in fact from parish to parish. Most of these new instructions end with wording that the local bishop or pastor can alter things a bit to fit "local custom" or if the new rules would prove divisive to the parish. There are usually a few loopholes.

If your church does change the traditional walk down the aisle, you can always check out other Catholic churches in your area. There is quite a bit of flexibility in some Catholic rules and you should be able to find a parish that will allow the walk down the aisle. But you or someone in your family will probably have to join that parish.

I did a *lot* of searching on the Web to help find some answers for you, but there isn't much out there. I did find one explanation that makes sense and I've posted the link below--scroll down to "How is the procession supposed to go?". This one explains that the bride and groom can be escorted down the aisle by both parents--would you mind sharing this honor with the bride's mother?

It appears the rule about the procession has been in effect for years, but very few Catholic churches are following it.

Take a deep breath. I think you should be able to walk your daughters down the aisle.

Here is a link that might be useful: Explanation of the procession.

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the questions that have been posted - when I called the potential of not being allowed to escort my daughter 'down' the aisle a dealbreaker, I meant that if such a rule is the idea of the pastor of my parish and inflexible, it would mean that I would no longer be a member of that parish. I would not disrupt the ceremony of any of my daughters for anything in the world; I would suck it up and go through with it but it would be the last time they ever saw me in there. I would have no problem in the world having my wife as well as my daughter on the trip down the aisle; we are still married, by the way, and it's a good thing. In 2003 my oldest niece got married (p.s. she gave birth to my dad's first great-grandchild over the weekend. My YOUNGER sister is now a grandmother. Ouch!) and both her mother and father escorted her. They are divorced and despise each other. Both of them had the broadest smiles on their faces. While they were obviously happy for their daughter, the tension between each of them toward the other showed in their body language.
My oldest has her own apartment and has recently joined the parish that serves her community, so if she does marry it may be there, and they might have their own set of standards. Admittedly I may be 'making a mountain out of a molehill' but this matter is a concern of mine. Our oldest gave us a rough time when she was in her teens; no drugs or promiscuity that we know of, but staying out late and disrespecting us and her sisters. A lot of tears were shed. Thankfully we are past that now and her and I are closer than we've ever been. Maybe the fact that we've gotten through the bad times OK is why I want to be there for her.

Sorry - didn't mean to ramble.

Looks like it was NOT just a rumor; This appeard in the Philadelphia Inquirer on 5/27.

Something new, feeling blue

By Dianna Marder
Inquirer Staff Writer

The last thing a bride needs is more stress.
She's been planning her wedding since childhood. For the last year she's been wrangling with caterers, battling with florists, and arguing with her mom over the guest list.
So don't all of a sudden tell her she can't make a grand entrance in the church to the tune of Wagner's Bridal Chorus, and walk down the aisle with her father.

But that's what the Archdiocese of Philadelphia seems to want to do.

In a September newsletter, the archdiocese's Office for Worship told parish priests that many of the traditions favored by brides - such as having their fathers walk them down the aisle - are not, in fact, part of the sacred liturgy and so are not considered appropriate.

The message has upset brides-to-be, led some parish priests to support the popular traditions, and left the church trying to clarify what it meant.

Speaking on behalf of the archdiocese, the Rev. Daniel Mackle said the church was addressing a question of where the priest should greet the couple - at the altar or at the church entrance.

"The sacrament of marriage is given by the bride and groom to each other," said Mackle, who, until recently, headed the Office for Worship. "So ideally, the couple and their parents should enter in one procession."

But inherent in that is the question of who walks with whom. And that's where the problems arose.

Some priests started telling brides not only that they couldn't walk with their fathers, but that they should, instead, walk with the groom.

How and when that would be enforced was not clear, but the reaction from future brides, as word of the policy leaked out, most certainly was.

Bells - make that alarm bells - started to go off in the chat rooms of must-see wedding Web sites such as The Knot.com, and Brides.com, where the furor was almost audible.

"There was a big uproar," said Rita Kim, who was married at the Cathedral Basilica of SS. Peter and Paul on April 2.

"And when we met with our priest, I asked him right away. I wanted to know for sure if the basilica was going to enforce that. But luckily he said that was not going to happen, for my wedding at least."

"Honestly, I wouldn't have planned to get married in the Catholic church if I knew this was in the works," said Alicia Marion, who was married April 9 at St. Francis of Assisi Church in Norristown.

Marion, who, like Kim, heard about the news on The Knot, said the issue never came up at the Pre-Cana classes she and her fiance attended last fall.

Fortunately, she says, the Rev. Kevin Trautner of St. Francis told her that while the traditional walk with Dad would be halted "at some point," she didn't have to change her plans because she was so far along in them.

"We in the parishes really haven't changed any of this yet," said Trautner, adding that the issue came to his attention only in the last month.

The Rev. Thomas Betz of Holy Redeemer Roman Catholic Church in Chinatown said he was not making any changes right now, either.

"Sometimes things are not enforced because of the culture," he said. "This is one of those areas in which I think the prudent thing to do is go by custom."

And yes, he's aware of the trauma it's causing brides.

Trauma, indeed.

"If my dad couldn't walk me," Marion said, "I would have found another place where he would have been able to."

Marion's parents, who were married 32 years ago at Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Church in Trooper, agree.

"Are you kidding? Of course my father walked me down the aisle," said her mother, Linda, nearly choking on her astonishment at the suggestion of change.

Marion's father, Pat, gets teary just thinking about it.

"All the fathers I hang out with who have been through it say it's very emotional. It's the last time your daughter is solely part of your family."

Caught off-guard by the outraged brides and their families, the archdiocese is clarifying its stance, reassuring brides that there has been something of a misunderstanding.

The bride can walk down the aisle with her father, but not in a separate procession, Mackle said. "Just don't make it a fashion show. The groom should not be treated as an appendage."

Anybody who has witnessed a wedding knows exactly what Mackle is referring to: the entourage of bridesmaids, followed by flower girls and ring-bearers, and then the hush, as the groom and his attendants magically appear at the altar from a side door.

Then the doors fling open, the Bridal Chorus sounds, and ta-da! The bride enters with a flourish to accompanying camera flashes and oohs and ahs, is joined by her father, and they walk down the aisle to the altar.

Outside of Philadelphia, no other dioceses are asking for stricter compliance, said the Rev. John Burton of St. Isidore the Farmer Church in Vineland, N.J.

Burton, who chairs the Camden Diocese's commission on worship as well as a national group of liturgical commissions, said he saw the value of respecting popular custom.

"Nobody has the right to change liturgical requirements, but you have to build a bridge from there to where the people are at," he said.

"When people have bought into traditions - even if they don't fully grasp them - it's difficult to make a change dogmatically."

This is not the first time the Archdiocese of Philadelphia has called for liturgical purity and run up against tradition. In 2002, the church started enforcing a ban on eulogies from individuals at funeral Masses - and even banned the singing of "Danny Boy." That caused hurt and anger, but the church apparently did not back down.

Elizabeth Murray, weddings editor at The Knot, said she has seen some traditions fade. More brides are walking alone or with their mothers, for example, as couples marry later and, in many cases, pay for the wedding themselves. Those couples, she said, tend to "take ownership of the day."

But for the most part, sentimentality reigns, she said.

It's hardly a modern perspective, said Vicki Howard, author of The Business of Brides: The American Wedding Industry and the Invention of Tradition, due out from the University of Pennsylvania Press in 2006.

After all, the ritual has its roots in agrarian times, when marriages were about enlarging a family's wealth, and females were the property of males, she says.

"That's why they were given away."

Seen in that light, said Cynthia Hornblower, executive editor at Brides magazine, the Catholic liturgy on the marriage rite "makes the church look modern."

Just don't tell that to a bride.

The church can spin-doctor an issue with the best of them! Looks like 'face saving' to me. I only wish as much effort was employed in ridding the church of abusive priests.

It seems to be all about you, you, you. The Church won't steer you wrong. What do they have to gain by getting a bunch of people angry? So if they are changing the practice of how it is done, there is obviously a good reason. And you talk about leaving your Church over such a small matter. If you are willing to leave over such a small matter, then you clearly do not have a lot of ties to the Church as it is. Are you involved with projects in the parish? Do you volunteer to clean the building? Do you tithe 10% of your income to it? Do you hand out Bibles to your friends and sing in the choir? Do you volunteer your time at soup kitchens? If you are ready to leave your church because you "can't have your way" then some people might say that such an ultimatum sounds rather juvenile. Do you realize how much God has blessed you with? You have a healthy family, and your daughter is going to be married. There are some people in this world laying in beds suffering from cancer, and they would give ANYTHING to be in your position, with a beautiful wedding sacrament coming in the future. And here you have the whole world in the palm of your hand, and you are bickering over the 30 second walk down the aisle. Have you even once, for five seconds, got on your knees and stopped talking long enough to listen to what God is saying to your heart?

Jack

Here is a link that might be useful: Here is a good source of truth

Softball 80, please forgive jmjtymary333, for he knows not what he does. Or should that be he has found himself perfect and is casting the first stone? Either way, this and all the other sites are here to offer help and support, even if once in awhile we do not agree with the focus of a question (which is not my case here).

As you read so many of the other responces to your topic, we are here for you, share interest and concern for the changes.

I have been married many years (25 in July) and have come to the group here with my questions when my nephew got married, when my daughter was asked to assist several of her friends in planning their weddings and to monitor the changes in styles, customs and reception expectations in preparation for my DD's wedding (which may not be as soon as we had been told to expect).

As a parent and as a Catholic, I hope you and your family are able to focus on the love and joy your daughter's wedding contain. And, if that joy includes walking with her for one last time as a member solely of your family (if in name but not in heart) I hope it is as memorable for you as my walk was with my father -- who I had to prompt because he was waiting for the outlawed wedding march instead of the "Ode to Joy" I used.

Peace and joy :)

Susan

I agree with Susan's comments. Please don't think that others feel as mjtymary333 does. The purpose of these forums is not to bash others but to be able to talk over issues of importance and to be respected for our varying opinions. No one is absolutely right and to give the impression that one's opinion is the ONLY opinion is narrow minded.

Thank you for posting the newspaper article. I can now share it with clients who are confused and concerned and assure them that it isn't just our local diocess that is "raining on their big day."

Jack: I may not have made it as clear as I might have, but I was referring to the Archdiocese of Philadelphia as not seeing me again, not my faith. Two adjoining archdioceses, Camden NJ and Allentown Pa are not instituting these changes, and they are as religious as as Philadelphia is.

Are you a parent? If you are I'll bet you'd do anything for your children; work two jobs or whatever it takes to provide for them. To me this walk is a symbolic 'letting go' of a time when my wife and I looked after my daughter, and the start of one where we step into the background a bit, ready to lend support when requested but allowing daughter & husband to make their own life together.

If you still can not see my point, I hope we can agree to disagree.

Softball 80,

You have responded with graciousness to what could reasonably be called an *ungracious* attack. We should all learn from your example.

jmjtymary333, I believe the approved internet site for the Uber-Catholics who like to bludgeon the rest rest us into meek submission is over at beliefnet.com. The rest of us regular, everyday Catholics who love the church but see a few warts here and there aren't going anywhere, thank you.

personally, i can't wait for my daddy to walk me down the aisle. i'm not catholic (fiance is) but i can see why brides everywhere are outraged. i think of it as a symbolic moment and possibly one of the most important bonding moments a girl has with her dad. it isn't a barbaric tradition it is beautiful and symbolic... the last moment when a woman is her daddy's little girl. it adds closure... you're sending your daughter out into the world to have a family of her own... i can only imagine how emotional it is for the dad...

I have to agree with Nanaof2 "Having been a mother of the bride, as well as a bride myself, I think it is cruel and heinous to make a young woman walk that aisle alone! Talk about a time to have a loving arm there for you, and someone who loves you like no other."
Having had my father walk me down the isle I can tell you it is a very special time. Granted it was a while ago (17 years) and I love my husband dearly and always have but I remember being nervous, scared , excited, happy, insecure, just I guess every emotion available and knowing my Daddy was there for me made all the difference in the world!! I say stand your ground because it is an extremly important part of an extremly important day.
Kelly

Thanks for the words of (mostly) support. Here's an update:

I decided to go to the source for information. I sent an email to the Archdiocese of Phila asking what the facts are on this issue. The next day I got back what I believe was a 'form letter email' if you will. It basically stated that at present there is no rule either way on the wedding procession and that there will not be until new Marriage Rite (from the Vatican) is published in english. I sent a follow up on an unanswered question - can an individual parish pastor decide on his own to forbid the father escorting his daughter - if that is her desire? I also asked if this practice is 'not a part of the Marriage Rite' in the future, will there be any wiggle room that would let the father and daughter walk together; or would it be a sin or invalidate the ceremony?

I got no response for several days. Since the original query was answered so promptly, I decided that in case I was now being ignored, that I would resend the same email with a header ( second request, third request, etc.) every day until I heard from them. Well, after a week, I got a response, a personal one this time. The Marriage Rite is published with individual differences in different countries according to local practices / customs. Again, there is no current policy addressing who walks with whom; walking with my daughter is no sin and it would not invalidate the ceremony even after the Marriage Rite is published.

I gave a copy of the emailed response to a friend of my wife. Her daughter is going through the same thing. It's my hope that she shoves the email right under my pastor's nose and calls him out on it, but I don't know how confrontational she is.

Hard to believe that this old thread of mine is still around!

Here's the update: DD#1 and her above mentioned boyfriend got engaged last November. The wedding is a week from tomorrow 10/10, a Friday. The pastor we were having trouble with was transferred and a more 'laid back' priest took his place. Another priest who is performing the actual ceremony also isn't going to stand in our way. By the way, it turns out that my daughter was just as anxious as I was about escorting her up the aisle, and I'm glad of that because it was never my intention to force my will upon her in this matter. In fact both my wife & I will be with her. DD#2 & 3 are co-maids of honor but with only one best man I wonder how the dancing will go.

While I don't consider myself a vain person, I did buy a treadmill soon after the engagement and have logged over 1000 miles on it in an effort to look good, or at least less disturbing, for the pictures. Lost 20lbs!

Congratulations, Father of the Bride. Have a wonderful wedding celebration. Our only daughter married in 2005, and our family still relives that weekend whirl in conversation and memory. I know you will too. I am glad to learn of your part in instructing the parish priests in your area of the importance of a father's arm to a bride.

Revisiting this ancient thread. They got married, my wife & I walked our daughter up the aisle without a problem. Daughter & son-in-law made us grandparents 8/22/10. Life is good!

Thanks for coming back and telling us.

Congratulations to the whole family!

.... there is too much emphasis on the bride in weddings today and not enough emphasis on the ceremony. They want to take the focus off of individuals and place it on the sanctity of the ceremony.
***********************************************************
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-
Good luck with that.
The billion-dollar wedding industry makes sure the bride and the "show" she's starring in are the ONLY thing it's about, and that isn't going to change any time soon.

"....sanctity of the ceremony..."

What kind of joke is that? The show trumped any semblance of "sanctity" generations ago. Now its a contest with the attendees as judges.

Hopefully your family and friends are different. Based on what I've seen...and the behind the scenes whispers I've heard....I despair.

Hello, The tradition of giving the bride away had never really been part of the RC tradition, at least not for centuries. In many European countries, traditionally catholic, such as Italy, France, Belgium or Spain, the groom walks down the aisle with his mum and the bride with her dad. However, this isn't part of any ritual, unlike in the Anglican liturgy. No one is given away as the spouses freely give themselves to each other. The norm in the USA is based on many British / Protestant traditions. I'm in Europe and I have only seen the bride being given away in US/British movies. Nevertheless, I regularly attend catholic weddings, as a wedding planner, and the bride and groom never have to arrive together. They chose whatever they prefer. Usually, as I said, bride and dad and groom and mum. William