Well doodle, my X is apparently taking trips with a new friend. FDs x is on his third.

Doodleboo,

That is easy to say when you have only been together a few years, and married a few months. Things may be very different in twenty years.

I don't quite understand the time line here. His children are four; you've been living together a few years - that would mean they were about 1 when you moved in together. In my state, and I think many, if not all, others, you can not divorce your wife while she is pregnant (not to mention that that is a really slimy thing to do). How young were his children when he left his wife? If you did not have an affair with him, and assuming you did not move in with him a couple of weeks after you met, he sure didn't must have jumped into a new relationship quickly. And as to his ex-wife making him "feel worse," one has to wonder if he expected her to be continually perky and upbeat while taking care of infant twins.

KKNY - seriously? Your ex is 'stepping out' on the pool girl?? Good stinkin' grief. Perhaps there is some solace in that though - obviously the issue lies within him.

No, not solace.

I don't know whats not to get about the timeline TOS. Not that it's really any of your business but the girls are going to be five in a few months. Jonathan left her many times but left for good when the girls were two. I met him a few months later. We become friends and started dating shortly after. I didn't move in with him untill the girls were three. At the time mom still had primary custody. We lived together for a year and roughly eight months and then got married a few months ago.

I assure you I have no reason to lie to you nuts about whether or not I was sleeping with him while he was still with his ex. Give me a break. While we are getting personal do you mind telling me why your husband left you. I am unaware of what went down there.

TOS...you need to go back and read some of my posts. She is certified mentally ill as in has attemtpted suicide multiple times. The worst of which she blew out a lung with a double barrel shot gun at point blank range. She should of never of had kids at all.

Just as recently as Easter she OD'd on pills and couldn't get the girls for the egg hunt because she had been commited as a result. I assure you that Jonathan tried to do right for the kids and "make it work" but as I have said there comes a time where making it work is not only not doing the adults involved any good but the kids involved either.

She refused to get clean and get mental help and ultimatly it cost her her marriage and if she doesn't get her act together it's going to cost her her children as well.

Do not try to victimize this woman because she does a good enough job making herself the victim. Any hardships that she has had live through her adult life have been brought on by herself and her unwillingness to do what she needs to do to get well.

TOS....the final draw was when he came on off the road to find she had moved another MAN INTO HIS HOUSE! It's the same man that wound up trying to choke her to death infront of the girls a few months back.

He asked me to make mention of that again. He doesn't want anyone thinking he's a scum back just because you can't handle how your marriage turned out. I really don't understand whats up with you woman. You have all of these opinions but as soon as someone disagrees with you you try to "expose them" as bad people. I assure you my intentions with my husband and his children have been nothing but honorable. I am raising two girls who arn't even mine (that I love dearly I might add) because their bio mother is a piece of S*** and you are trying to make me out to be a home wrecker....you have some nerve.

I can't imagine why your husband would leave you...you seem like SUCH a nice person.

I didn't say that you were a homewrecker - just that your husband must have very quickly jumped from one relationship to the next.

I originally asked about the time line because, in the introduction thread, you said,

"2nd and current marriage only a few months but we have been living together for a few years."

I personally would not consider less than two to be "a few years."

I am curious. You said in the other thread that the twins will be five in August. If you moved in with your now husband as soon as they turned three, then one year and eight months later would bring you to this April - but you said you got married a few months ago. April was just last month.

I can't say I understand how leaving one's mentally ill wife to raise two toddlers alone can possibly be good for the children. If you were to reverse the situation, and a mother left her children behind with a suicidal husband, even for a short time, I think a lot of people would ask why she didn't stay around to protect/supervise them until she was certain she would have full custody.

I have posted before about the murder of our young relative that precipitated my then husband's depression, followed quickly by his affair and desertion. He himself told me afterwards that as of a week or two prior to the murder, he was not planning to leave.

TOS, do you really have THAT much time that you go back to OLD posts and create timelines of what everybody says so you have something to challenge their credibility?

Well, perhaps you messed up on MY timeline. If you are so interested in why a mother would leave her young daughter in a home with two boys that are late teens/early 20's, well, first you'd have to ask her. It is obvious to me that she placed her new boyfriend as her top priority, above and beyond her daughter's safety if she really believes her daughter is in ANY danger. (well, even if her daughter isn't in any danger, she still chose to leave her girls to be with a guy she just met) Secondly, the "threat" she perceived from my son that involved a knife happened last summer, before the trial in August 2007 (it was brought up in the trial and the judge didn't believe her. My son was cutting up an apple and she said that because he was holding a knife when he told her to go back to her room, that SD felt threatened. He was sitting on the couch at least 20 feet away from her). She moved with her new boyfriend in September 2007 and gave us custody so she must not have been THAT concerned that my son was a threat to her daughter. She gave up custody knowing he lived here with us. She has also made a few accusations that we are abusing her daughter over the last few months, yet she has done absolutely NOTHING about any of it. The ONLY time she has even mentioned her 'accusations' is when DH won't do what she says. Her daughter's safety must not be a big concern to her. The ONLY time she has put any of it in writing to the court is in her response to modify child support. Then she didn't show up for the hearing where she could have voiced her worries and concerns and asked for temporary custody or some relief. She didn't. Again, you would have to ask her why her daughter isn't her top priority or why she hasn't done anything if she believes the things she's accusing us of. Makes no sense to me. Like I said, if it were my kid, I'd have done something by now... if I cared.

I also don't know what you are implying about unrelated males living with girls. Sounds perverted if you ask me. But, honestly probably brought up to be controversial, which I noticed it did create a stir. Congratulations. Good one.

Hope you had a good weekend...

Oh for Pete's sake - it is not an old post; it is right there on the first page. I went to look at it because I wanted to refresh my memory on whether she had been married a long time or not.

I questioned why she wasn't concerned about her daughter living with unrelated teenage/early twenties boys. I never said I thought she was mother of the year. I don't think she should have moved her daughter in with some guy she had just started dating, either.

When your daughter was in her early teens, would you have wanted her to live in a household with unrelated boys of your son's ages whom you did not know? Would you really have trusted boys you had never met, or had met once or twice? Would you even be comfortable with her living in a coed dorm, at 18? How about a coed apartment, which is becoming more common on college campuses? Based on things you have said, you sound pretty protective of your daughter (not that that is a bad thing), so I really doubt that you would be comfortable.

TOS, if you are so concerned about a teenage daughter spending time with an unrelated stepson, why wouldn't you go and meet those children? Get to know them. Or is it that you just want to desperately hold on to another BS reason why a child should be terribly afraid of being at Dad's house. You don't want it to work plain and simple and you will do everything in your passive aggressive style to make sure it doesn't. Your views are very common coming from jealous exes and for the most part thinking people can see right through them.

TOS...it got to the point where she was so crazy he was on the verge of wanting to stomp her and he didn't want it coming to that with the girls present. Not only that but did you actuallt expect him to live there with the other man in the house??? He had to get out. You should know that custody cases take a loooong time. We are STILL fighting to get full custody of the kids even though bio mom has all kinds of evidence of instability stacked against her. He couldn't of just snatched them up and brought them with him. He had to move in with friends till he could get back on his feet. He has no living relatives to stay with. Where would the kids of stayed? At his bachelor friends house? There wasn't even a spare room for them. They would of been on the couch. He did the best he could do. He has them now which is what he has been working towards since I met him. I don't understand what you're getting at. Are you trying to make him look like a bad father now just because he dared to have an opinion against yours?

I will tell you he is the (not one of but THE) most hands on father I have ever known. This man raises his children alone. I help of course but the brunt falls on him. He is a wonderful guy and his kids love him very much and thats the only thing that matters when it all boils down, is it not?

I don't think I'm even going to try and justify myself to you anymore. I am very happy. I am married to a beautiful talented man. I have to step daughters who I love and they love me. They call me MOMMY. Go ahead and throw darts at me....I don't care. I NEVER told them to call me that. We all love each other. We have a baby on the way that we just found out about a few weeks ago. Go ahead and go check the post so you can give me the precise number of weeks....I don't keep up with crap like that. All I know is we are all very happy. We have a great family. You can't be happy for me because you are miserable and jaded. ALl you do is look under rocks for the negative. I am really sorry things didn't work out for you TOS. I hope you can move on one day. If it's been nine years I don't think he's coming home....

Maybe he will, maybe he won't. But if I were him I would be much more amenable to return to an EX if they were being decent to me and were also prepared to look at their fault in the marriage breakdown. If it were a control issue from one side, it would never happen.

Colleen,

I think that TOS Xs wife wont even allow most of her children in her house. And I guess on this board only the wife is ever at fault.

doodleboo,

In my experience, "I won't attempt to justify myself" usually means more or less the same thing as "that's the story I'm going with."

Everything I have read indicates that if you want custody of your children, NEVER leave the marital home. If you have to leave, as in cases of physical abuse, you need to take the kids with you.

colleen,

Meeting her kids a few times would in no way provide enough information about their character, and I can't envision any way of getting to know them well when they live so far away. I have never allowed my children to stay alone with any unrelated teen or adult male, but fortunately that doesn't come up often because most responsible males wouldn't put themselves in such a position - teachers don't provide after school help with the door shut, etc., in this day and age.

But remember when you are talking about another person's child, that child is not a stranger, but their own child. So while you are busy putting out some very nasty insinuations, BE careful what you say.

And please don't me laugh kkny about only wife being to blame. And didn't I read somewhere that your EX is taking another woman on his trips now? What does that mean?

I guess IF it means he is stepping out on the TOW, you have just lost a huge amount of your moral ground. Unless of course you are going to go after the TOW of the TOW.

Huh? Everybody is somebody's child. Would anyone here really do something like hire a friend of a friend's 20 year old son to babysit their 11 year old daughter? He might be perfectly fine, and he is someone's child, but would any sensible parent take that chance?

What you talking about?

"But remember when you are talking about another person's child, that child is not a stranger, but their own child."

As I said, everyone, pedophile or saint, is someone's child.

Doodle, I don't think anyone else has any beefs with your relationship timeline. Don't worry about TOS and her crabbypants.
I can't say for sure what anyone else thinks, but I think your DH sounds like a fabulous dad, and that you've been a great Dad's GF, FSM and now SM.
IMO, your SDs' BM probably wants to be a good mom, but her mental health troubles prevent it. It's too bad for her daughters that their mom isn't capable of being there for them, but they have other great people who love them! It sounds like you and DH have done a good job letting them know they are loved, no matter what!

I would assume that EVERY parent that loves their child is going to be diligent in making sure that the unrelated people that are around their children are not going to abuse their child, WHETHER THEY ARE THE MOTHER OR THE FATHER.

It sounds like a double standard to say that a mother has the right to decide who is in the father's house and if the mother doesn't want her daughter around the father's teenage stepson's, then the mother gets to decide the child shouldn't go there. But, that would be like my husband having a right to tell his daughter's mother that he isn't going to allow his daughter to visit her home because she lives with a man he doesn't really know and her boyfriend has two sons that are slightly older than his daughter. In fact, I would think the 10 and 12 year old boys in my stepdaughter's mom's house, would be more of a 'threat' to stepdaughter since she's 9 and boys are usually interested in girls around the same age. Only pedophile men are interested in 9 year old girls, so it would make more sense that the boyfriends' sons would pose more of an interest in my stepdaughters than my sons.

In that case, what should we do with stepdaughter? The choices are that

1. She lives with mom, along with mom's boyfriend (who was fired from his job for an internet porn addiction at work & barely avoided a sexual harassment suit) and his two sons (10 & 12) that are just a bit older than stepdaughter and his daughter that is 7... and assuming her other daughter 12 comes to live there.... and they share a house with no bedrooms, just a loft where mom & boyfriend sleep. The kids sleep where ever.

Or

2. She lives with dad, along with stepmom, stepsister18, a stepbrother19 that is hardly home and my oldest son21 moved out a few weeks ago so he isn't around her at all. She has her own room (as do the other kids), with a door & a lock so that if she feels that someone MIGHT bother her, she can keep her door locked.

Colleen,

Excuse, me how did I loose moral ground? I did nothing wrong. And if he is treating TOW badly, I am certainly not to blame.

I think this is why these timeline questions are relevant. These seriel relationships, of going from one to the next, are OK for consenting adults, but then it is hard to figure out how to make it work for the children involved. Maybe once you make a break, the next gets easier. Who knows?

Actually, my husbands first marriage DID end because of his depression, so that ends THAT argument for me right there.

A quick sidestep here  TOS is correct. Depression is a chemical imbalance of the brain, and in most cases cannot be correctly dealt with correctly without medication and/or intensive counselling.

In my husbandÂs case, his depression was both hereditary and as a result of long periods of stress.

Of course, it wasnÂt really helped by his ex-wifeÂs numerous affairs, her violent attacks on him (in front of their young children), her insistence of belittling and insulting him in public or her repeated passive aggressive manipulation that had him thinking he was going crazy anyway.

Boy, that divorce sure was the best medication he could ever have taken!

Is this the kind of depression that ends a marriage that youÂre talking about, TOS?

Fast forward to his second marriage (with his obviously superior and utterly gorgeous second wife  and it goes without saying that as the stepmother of his two divine children, IÂm also perfect in every way  duh!), and his prolonged battle with a bitter and angry ex wife (how DARE he move on with his life and find happiness with someone else?!?!), his depression reared its head again. And it wasnÂt pretty.

But hereÂs the difference  he had a wife who supported him, who gently loved and nurtured him, who took care of him, made sure he had enough rest and kept his stress levels to a minimum, who encouraged him to talk through his feelings and stroked and kissed his beautiful forehead when he felt at his darkest.

And funny enough  gee, as if by magic, he got through it and weÂre still together. Can you believe it? I mean, whaddya know? My husband suffered the same clinical depression caused by chemical imbalances in his brain that he suffered in his first marriage, only we didnÂt get divorced. Okay, I suppose it does help that this time round he wasnÂt in a miserable, unhappy marriage pretending to be happy when all along he was dying inside.

A man doesnÂt leave his marriage because he is ÂdepressedÂ. Depression isnÂt a Âone-off get out of jail free cardÂ. What he had before, for whatever reasons, didnÂt work for him. What he has now clearly does.

Ain't life a funny old thing ;)

Ima reminds me of something here that I think we all can benefit from:
It's important to examine all homes and caregivers under the same lens.
We often problematize everything that happens at the other home(s) while glorifying what happens at our own. I'm not innocent of this, but I try to keep an open mind about the other homes.
It's easy to ignore the bad points about your own home, and focus on the bad points of the other home(s), but many of us meed to make a better effort about this.

Like I say, its amazing how many perfect SMs there are here. Come back in 5 years. %s are YOU WILL BE THE NEW X.

From what I see you are a wonderful and involved mother to all of your children. Crappy pants TOS reached an all time low with her insinuations.

I would much rather be called a troll than have someone insinuate my son is going to or may molest one of my stepchildren. What a remarkable ---- she is.

Barefoot, like previous posters who have said the same thing, is right.

In my case,
I have had some depression troubles here and there since I was about 18. Mine are typically in the winter (probably mild seasonal disorder) or when something else is wrong with my health.

My ex held it against me when I had a rough spell. He said I was being lazy or didn't love him etc etc. That was far from helpful and it caused huge problems in our relationship.

FDH has talked and listened, tried to help, picked up my slack, and most importantly, UNDERSTOOD that this was not my fault and only temporary. I'd be lying if I said he wasn't occasionally frustrated or that he was pleased that I hit a slump, but he's been a great help and it hasn't caused any problems in our relationship.

Oh right, you're the other bitter one. Hi :)

Honey, I'm such a perfect stepmother and second wife that the people in my town put on a big parade for me every month. Balloons and everything. The Mayor even sends all the first wives of the town to me to kiss my sweet feet. Sure, they hate it, but at least they learn their place.

Don't be too amazed at how perfect I am. I know, it's hard and it must cause you many sleepless nights, and sometimes I must admit I do feel a little twinge of guilt at how I manage to sleep so well with all that 'ex wife' suffering in the world. But c'est la vie, huh?

I feel for you. Honestly I do. Never mind, you might be lucky enough to be invited to one of my monthly parades and join the lucky bitter first wives in their feet-kissing fun. I think you might even like it ;)

p.s. Sorry sweetie, I'm too busy counting the blessings in my perfect life to worry about silly things like percentages and BIG SCARY SHOUTY WRITING. That's for the 'little people' to worry about, not me ;)

I completely understand what you are saying. I suffered from severe postnatal depression in my first marriage, and it was a world of difference when I had the same experience after our last child in this marriage.

My PND didn't break up my first marriage, but the way it was all handled was an INDICATION of the state of the marriage itself. Two completely different things.

You can get through pretty much anything if you have the right support in your relationship.

"You can get through pretty much anything if you have the right support in your relationship."

this is one of the wisest things I've read on this board. I'm glad you are no longer just lurking....

and love the parade idea... sounds like such fun!!!

CEPH

Thank you. We are happy and I think that's what is causing the problem. Apparently there isn't any room for blended families who kid along on this blog. God forbid my husband and I love each other and the kids all adore me.

TOS

I'm not not justifying myself to you anymore in this case simply means I can't force you to believe the truth and frankly I don't care if you do or not because you are nothing to me.

I read all your replies to my husband and he said you sound bitter, bi-polar and desperate to make up your own reality. When others don't by into your reality you get angry. Some points you make seem valid but then you go way way way out on limbs to cover every possible gray area and you wind up sounding desperate. All your VALID points are forgotten and you turn into that crazy ex wife. Are you bi-polar? Do you have social disorders? He also said he knows your type....controlling, nagging and insecure.

I think he's right. Everything I have said is true. He did all he could do for the girls. He fought tooth and nail to get them and still is fighting. Can you say your ex would do that? Oh wait, but that's the new wifes fault not his. Please. The man was a dog looking for an excuse to bail on his marriage and now he uses his new wife as an excuse not to see his own kids. STOP PUTTING ALL THE BLAME ON THE TOW! There was faults in the marriage there was faults in your ex and there was faults in you or the marriage would of never of ended. It takes two to have an affair my dear and for all of his depression he sure got over it long enough to go crawling into some other womans bed. Did he cry the whole time he was having relations with this woman and think I am SOOOOO depressed. I think not.

I can admit that my first marriage wouldn't of ended had it been strong and we were meant for each other...I am woman enough to do that. Why can't you?

Bare Foot

You are a riot:) The best medicine for depression sometimes is to get out of cruddy relationships. That is exactly what my husband said.

P.S. I want to come to one of your parades

" * Posted by kathline (My Page) on
Sat, May 24, 08 at 0:04

Ima,

If my child told me things about his other parent, I would believe every word of it, and think the worst. I think every parent would.

Kids in divorced families surely know how to pit parents against each other."

I completely agree with you. My question however, was would you do anything about it? I think that parents should believe their children, but if your child is telling you they are being mistreated and you believe them, do you say or do something or just let it go until your ex doesn't give you your way and THEN bring it up... and still DO nothing but make an accusation?

There's no doubt in my mind that my SD is saying things to both sides. This weekend, she told her grandparents (DH's parents) things about me that aren't true and they came to me and talked to me right away to find out what's going on. They did what I think her mom should have done, they acted on it right away. Whether the things she is saying are true or not true, if the mom believes them or not, she should find out why her daughter is saying those things. That was my point. Instead, her mom doesn't say a word or do a thing, she waits until she doesn't get her way or my husband brings up a concern he has about their daughter and that's when BM decides she needs to make her accusations.

"In many cases, the stepbrother IS a complete stranger to the mother of the child involved. I have never met any of my exH's wife's kids. I doubt if imamommy's SD's mother is extremely well-acquainted with her sons. Does ima's SD's father know his exW's BF's kids really well?"

As I mentioned above, BM's BF has two son's 10 & 12. SD is 9. The first time SD was at her mom's BF's house where the BF's sons were there, BM let SD sleep on the bed in the loft with both boys. That was the very FIRST time SD met BF's sons. They WERE strangers.... but when DH told BM that he didn't think it was appropriate to let her BF's son's sleep on the same bed as his daughter (and he didn't even imply that anyone did anything wrong, just that he wasn't comfortable with that sleeping arrangement), BM's reaction was to accuse ME of putting bruises all over SD. Her answer had nothing to do with the issue at hand, she deflects the subject to something else and never addressed his concern. To this day, he has no idea where his daughter sleeps in relation to the BF's sons. All he can do is hope that BM is looking out for her daughter the way he looks out for her here. There's no way on Gods green earth that he would ever let one of my son's do any harm to his daughter. He has to trust that BM would do the same to protect her there. That is all divorced/unmarried parents CAN do.

"You can get through pretty much anything if you have the right support in your relationship."

So if your partner is severely clinically depressed and commits suicide, it must have been because he didn't have the "right support in your relationship?"

Claiming that the "right support" will guarantee anything is highly presumptuous, to say the least.

Claiming that just because a marriage survived one major episode of clinical depression, it will survive a second or third, is foolhardy.

ima,

"That is all divorced/unmarried parents CAN do"

This is one of the major downsides of divorce and remarriage/new relationships. Does your husband have absolute trust in his exW to keep their daughter safe - both from sexual predators and from other physical dangers? Certainly not, based on your posts. As soon as you divorce, a large portion of your ability to keep your kids safe, to raise them according to your beliefs, is lost to the court system, to an ex-spouse whom you may no longer trust, and to any new SO's that he or she may acquire.

Doodleboo,

It is interesting that you accuse me of getting angry, yet you are the one ranting.

My theory (not that it is original) is that a lot of people in second marriages are scared - scared that their second marriage is going to end, just as their first one did. Therefore they want to "prove" that their marriage is better, so it could never happen to them. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees. You could, in theory, be a perfect spouse and parent and yet your marriage could still end.

"This is one of the major downsides of divorce and remarriage/new relationships. Does your husband have absolute trust in his exW to keep their daughter safe - both from sexual predators and from other physical dangers? Certainly not, based on your posts. As soon as you divorce, a large portion of your ability to keep your kids safe, to raise them according to your beliefs, is lost to the court system, to an ex-spouse whom you may no longer trust, and to any new SO's that he or she may acquire."

FINALLY!!!! Something we agree on! (well, sort of)

The only thing that we may never agree on is that I think when you make a child with someone, whether they are married or not, you never have that right to be a sole decision maker, unless the child's other parent willingly leaves (as in my case) or dies, the other parent will have an equal right to raise their child as they want (unless a court says they don't). Even when couples stay married, the spouses may not agree on how their child is being raised by the other parent within the intact family. Surely, you don't think that in every intact family, the spouses completely agree on parenting and have exactly the same morals & beliefs. I'm sure there are many intact families that do and it's probably the best situation when the couple discusses those things before having children, but sometimes there are still differences and disagreements. It's not just a downside to divorce and remarriage/new relationships because it happens in intact families too. I can't tell you how many married couples I have seen over the years, disagree on what they should or shouldn't let the kids do. They argue and fight sometimes. I'm sure that in some situations, it may be part of the reason they divorce. Perhaps your marriage was perfect and you and your ex agreed on absolutely EVERYTHING. I doubt it, but I can give you the benefit of the doubt. But, not all families agree on everything. It would be nice if they could, but I doubt it can really happen. You may know couples where one just gives in but doesn't necessarily agree. That's just my opinion.

All I have said is that even if the parents are no longer together, it has to be assumed that they still love their children, even if they don't love each other. I don't think my husband has absolute trust in his exGF (he didn't have kids with his exW) based on things that have happened over the last year, but he can't change the fact that she is the mother and he has to assume, until she proves otherwise, that she will keep their daughter safe. And you are right that you may lose some of that ability to the court system in a divorce/unmarried situation, but I have also seen married biological parents lose their children to the court system for one or both mistreating their children. Staying together is no guarantee that the children will be safe.

"The right support" is a very subjective phrase and it's not a one-sided action.
No matter how supportive one party is, if the other isn't willing to receive that support, they might as well not bother. You could be the most supportive person on the planet, and it might not do you any good if your partner won't accept your support. (I had an ex like that too - he wouldn't accept my support in a very stressful time and it caused some major problems) Sort of a "you can lead a horse to water..." thing.
"The right support" is a team effort. If one person isn't willing to be part of that team, the whole thing falls apart. Just like anything else in a relationship!
TOS, no one is saying you didn't try to support your exH (well, at least I'm not saying that) just that for one reason or another, it didn't wind up being "the right support"

TOS

I never said my marriage would never end. Right now all is well but you never say never. But in the case it DID crumble I would admit that there was something lacking in the relationship and with my pride still in tact...I would move on.

I'm not much of one for flogging a dead horse. Especially if said horse cheated on me.

Whoa, you ladies know how to ride that pony. I have two minutes to write something real quick, so let's see how I do ...

1. Ceph, you are absolutely (okay, mostly) right. The right support in the right environment works. Immaturity, self-shame, confusion ... all these things play a part. Sometimes the person matures and can cope with these things better in a second marriage. Sometimes it's just a case of it not being the 'right support'. And sometimes, just sometimes, you can be part of the problem, not part of the solution. It all depends.

2. TOS ... you're funny. Clinical depression doesn't happen 'once'. It's something that is always present, lurking in the hidden realms of your brain. I doubt your ex suffered one bout of depression and then ran away and never experienced it again. It may well have been the turning point for him, or the catalyst, if you will, but depression has a way of shaking things about and surviving it can seriously open your eyes to many things. You can blame his depression for his leaving you for someone else, and that's okay. Whatever is needed for a good nights sleep, old girl. But I bet his wife has been sleeping pretty well all these years also.

3. I would like someone to explain to me how it is that when you are married to a man, you somehow trust him to take care of your children if you're going out on a girls night, or visiting your mother for the weekend, or even if he's taking them out for a day at the zoo, but suddenly when you're divorced he cannot be trusted to keep your children safe from all those nasty predators that lurk around every corner? When you were married, he protected them, but now he 'cannot be trusted' ?

I've spent far too long sitting here now (7 minutes) writing this and it feels like my skin is crawling. Eeeuuwww! I need a manicure NOW. My fingers feel filthy.

p.s. doodleboo, come along to my parade. The local wenches make cookies in the shape of broken hearts. Cool, huh? (arsenic is free for first wives - they love it)

p.p.s. (ooh, this is starting to look like a cheesy sales page). TOW, you little obsessional nit-picker you, I know about suicidal people, in ways you cannot even imagine. Be a little chicken and peck, peck, peck all you want, I'm still too fabulous to do anything other than laugh at what you write. It's like having my own little Gary Larson show right here on my computer. Oh wait, I have that as well. Damn. You lose.

I agree that my exH probably has suffered more than one bout with clinical depression - my point, exactly. Over the quarter of a century that we were together, our relationship probably survived many bouts of depression in my exH, but just because it survived one, or a dozen, doesn't mean it is going to survive the next one.

"I don't think my husband has absolute trust in his exGF (he didn't have kids with his exW) based on things that have happened over the last year"

ima,

Based on this statement, it seems that your H has less trust in his exGF than he did when he was still with her. It is common for exSO's to behave very differently than they did while you were together. My exH and I did not always agree, but we shared the same basic core beliefs in what we thought was important when it came to child-raising. In addition, it is much easier to reach a consensus between two people than it is when there are third parties who put their two cents in - whether those third parties are the courts, or new SO's.

ceph,

"You could be the most supportive person on the planet, and it might not do you any good if your partner won't accept your support."

I agree. I would not call this not providing the "right" support - the problem does not lie with the quality or quantity of support, but with the ability of the partner to receive it. Sort of like when your body can not utilize the insulin that is produced effectively.

"ima,

Based on this statement, it seems that your H has less trust in his exGF than he did when he was still with her. It is common for exSO's to behave very differently than they did while you were together. My exH and I did not always agree, but we shared the same basic core beliefs in what we thought was important when it came to child-raising."

That's obviously NOT TRUE if he cheated on you during the marriage. I would assume that your trust in him wasn't the same just before your marriage ended as it was in the beginning of your marriage. He obviously behaved differently when he was still married to you. It's not true that you and he shared the same core beliefs in child raising.... if it was a 'core' belief, then why did he abandon his children for another woman? Where are his 'core beliefs' now? He must not have believed in it enough to keep him from allowing this evil 'other woman' from tearing him away from his kids.

If you want to go on believing that and if it helps you get through each day, so be it. But don't insult the intelligence of eveyone that can see what you refuse to...

Oh yeah, my husband didn't trust his ex very much when they were together. That's probably why they were only together a couple of years. She lied to him about money, stole from him, cheated on him and when he wanted to end it (after the first year), she mysteriously became pregnant, even though she claimed to be on the pill. He stayed another year to try and make it work for their baby, but she was cheating on him and driving him into financial ruin. We're still paying on some of her debt and it's been 8 years. The trust was pretty much destroyed. He did however give her the benefit of the doubt that she was a good mom to her kids. He wasn't with her long enough to see that her ideas on parenting were polar opposite of his.

Ima, I also get the feeling that the "support" that TOSs X wanted was also financial. So it is TOSs fault that she didnt have as much money as TOW. I suspect now, after listening to my DD, that all X wants to talk about is the good old days when we were first married, is he wants to regain his youth -- is it my fault I cant support him in his quest.

ceph, according to imamommy her DH had 50/50 custody until he had met imamommy. so it is safe to say that SD was equal amount of time in both houses so whatever she has learned could be easily learned in both houses. she was never more at mom's house.

i am not saying that she learns bad stuff at dads house, i do not know, but if imamommy says whatever is bad comes from mom, mom could easily say the same thing. she could even say that until DH met imamommy and her kids SD never knew any bad stuff. you see, what goes around comes around...

on question what all divorced parents could do...

I think when we marry the first time and have children, we need to make sure we marry people who would remain good parents even if we get divorced, people who would not bring questionable partners or partners with bad kids into our children's lives if we get divorced. i could always guarantee with 100% that my X would never bring any quationable women with questionable children in DD's life. and he could always guarantee that I would never hang out wiht questionable men who have questionable children. that's why i never had to worry when DD was or is with dad and same with my X, he has no worries.

so there is a lot what people can do: do not have chidlren with idiots the first time around. it will save you a lot of trouble in the future.

if people cannot trust parents of their chidlren, i have hard time understanding why people had children with someone they cannot trust! and on many occasions more than one child! i would not have a child with X if i would not trust him to be a decent father who can be trusted around his daughter. i would not have children with people who bring unsafe partners to their house or endanger my child in any way. i cannot comprehend why people had children with someone they cannot trust their children to be with! it is a mystery to me. don't people think with their heads ot with you know what?so there is a lot people can do. think before having children!

I think the problem is more like "6 degrees of seperation". For example, my gardner is a great, outstanding (and legal) guy. Sometimes he brings his son to help. What about the weekend he is sick, and son brings friend. That is when problems start. X may be fine, his SO may be OK, now we get into what happens when her sons or cousins, etc are in Xs house.

kkny,
decent people usually have decent kids and decent cousins and spend their time in decent circles of people. i mean of course there are exceptions, but really not that many...I do not have one person in my family or my surrounding who cannot be trusted around my DD. of course accidents happen, but when there are so many questionable people around then it really does not sound like accidents, sounds like string of poor choices. ...I had questionable neighbours, so i moved. and yet people have children with creepy people, then allow bunch of suspicous people to be around their children for years or even their whole life.

FD, I agree, I dont have one person in my life who cant be trusted. But my point is the further the chain goes out, the more likely it is that someone in the chain can not be trusted. I thought the play, Six Degrees of Seperation, was making the point that everyone has a friend, co-worker, relative of a friend, etc. that knows someone.

Another post beat to death with 140 different subtopics

:)