Do you have to let her go back when things cool off?? Can you put your foot down and insist that she stay even when the waters have calmed?

It amazes me how the other parent can make such a decision without consulting with the effected household. A simple call to say 'I'm done at my wits end help!' would have been appropriate.

BD does things like this. He emails the day he is to pick up DD from school for visit and says can't pick up have to cancel and then I have to change course at the last minute like tell my boss nevermind I can't work late and help with a project or nevermind hubby I know tonight was date night got sitter for DS but now we have to get DD and have date night with her. Which don't get me wrong, we love all the extra time with DD when BD cancels but darn I'd like to get some overtime or I'd like a free night with hubby -- when BD is SUPPOSED to be on parent duty. Duty he has fought so hard to get. Argh sorry for highjacking.

Keep me updated.

Your poor SD. I feel so badly for her - how awful it must be to hear from her mother "I don't want you living with me anymore".

I just love how BM announced to you that your household composition would change. If I get mad at DH, can I send him over? "Yabber, DH is going to be living with you for a while now. I have decided."

So, did she send this as a text message? You need to keep that, it is admissable in court. My ss bm and us were in a HUGE custody battle simply because she wanted to move to another state with ss to live with a new man she had JUST met. My dh wouldn't consent to it. Hence the custody battle. We kept EVERY text message from bm and she got caught lying in the first court hearing. This lead to her attorney requesting a new judge (she made up that the judge winked at our lawyer so judge recused himself). Before the next court hearing BM sent my husband a text message stating that she wasn't going to be returning to our state so dh could go ahead and enroll ss in school. DH called our attorney on Monday, she said that's all we needed, and that a court date had been scheduled already for that Thursday. We again brought all text messages to court. She was a train wreck. She was also a huge LIAR but we didn't have complete proof of all the lies. Anyway, we have permanent custody even though she tried to say she wanted it as temporary, she asked NOT to pay support... she pays $56 per week, she asked for every other weekend, she gets one per month, she asked for the WHOLE summer... she gets 8 weeks. Though that's not going to go over well with ss because his baseball tournament is the first week of the last 8 weeks of summer. That'd be cruel to take him from that.

Anyway, I think your dh should keep these messages and keep sd14 and try to get custody of sd13. Obviously bm is loonie. He could right now try to go for emergency temporary custody until it can be brought into court for full custody. This girl needs stability and dad needs to do this for her. It will prove to her that at least one of her parents does care. Good Luck!!!

"she doesn't show any emotion and doesn't talk about it."

In a family where one child is angry & another child is silent, it's very likely that there's more rage than you know about.

keeping those kids in my thoughts & in my heart.

Is there anyhing in your area like alateen? A support group for teens with alcoholic parents. I remember you mentioning that BM is a probable BPD candidate and heavy drinker along with unhealthy BF relationships ect.

What is going on with the girls may be too large for just Dad and you to handle even though you're trying your best to understand and help the girls through all their BM puts them through. The stress, the guilt trips, the favoritism, the thinking they are responsible for baby siblings while BM is drunk/hungover, all the feelings and struggles the girls might be having. I'm wondering if the girls might be able to open up and get some support/help from other kids their own age dealing with the same type of thing along with professionals that guide the support and groups. It would also maybe take pressure off the girls to be able to lean on this type of group (basically their peers going through the same type of issues) instead of BM having a way of making the girls feel they've betrayed BM by siding with Dad over her or blaming Dad for influencing their thoughts and actions. KWIM?

Just a thought. I really know little about the groups except for what is on their websites, but I know there are teens here in my area that caseworkers have referred to these groups. I suppose BM would pitch a fit if she thought her daughter joined such a group, but BM just dumped the girl on your sidewalk...I'd think BM has just given Dad/you the greenlight to see to it the girl gets through this emotional confusing hardtime.

Oh Yabber, my heart hurts for your SD, and for you. Someone needs to drop a large rock on that woman's head.
But anyway. . .

JMT's idea is a good one; would SD14 go to any kind of a group like that? I worry for SD13 and what will happen to her w/o SD14 around, but perhaps this will be the event that opens SD13's eyes?

I wouldn't be surprised if this has blown over in a week and nothing more is said. Then in 6 months it will happen again. Lather, rinse, repeat. My SD and her BM do this same dance, and it is so hard (and frustrating, and even angering) to sit and watch. Nothing is ever resolved, nothing ever changes. It becomes a choice for you and DH - do you continue to be there each time BM decides what is happening in your household, or do you put your foot down and say enough - she stays or she goes but we are not a 'dumping ground' when you can't handle being a parent. It's not good for anyone involved. . . except maybe BM.

I'll be thinking of you this weekend. Keep us posted.

save her texts, and everything else she ever says or sends to your DH and use it in court, gather what you have and file for full custody for both kids due to mother's instability. poor kids

Thanks for all your kind words everyone.

Mattie I'd like to say you can drop your DH off anytime when you need a break, but I really don't think it's my place to make that decision so just check with BM ok? ;-)

I checked for the Alanon but there's none in our town, only 2 hours drive away.

FDH has kept the message that BM sent, in case we need it later on. I've talked to FDH about trying to get the court order changed and ask for full custody, to make it official. He thinks it's better to wait and see if SD is actually going to stay with us first. The most important thing is that she's with us now. He's not that worried about the custody issue because he really doesn't believe it makes any difference. Even if we were to get it, nothing stops the kids from going back to BM's when they choose to do so. They're old enough to make that decision. Even when they were only 10 and 12 the court already determined the girls should be able to choose where they want to stay, hence the flexible order.

Also, trying to force SD13 to come live with us will not work, she would NOT come and stay with us. At least now she's coming EOW which is better then nothing. SD14 has figured out what is what, we are hoping SD13 will do the same. Forcing the issue will push her away, but being supportive will hopefully draw her closer.

So SD13 is still with BM, she's feeling the pressure now and recently tweeted that she feels she can't do anything right. Of course she hasn't been going to school again this week. We are still waiting for a reply from the principle to FDH's letter. This Friday it will be 2 weeks since he got it (I would expect a response within 2 weeks, that's reasonable right?). I guess FDH will have to ring him and follow up if he doesn't get a response.

SD14 has been adjusting really well at our place. She's in a routine now and it's only been 2 weeks, I'm so proud of her. She goes to school, she does a couple of shifts every week at the Fast Food Place, she's going to bed on time, she gets up early, eats breakfast now (that was a hard one :-) and she's started doing her homework, even without us telling her to do so! Wow, that's so impressive isn't it?!

She's missing her mum and siblings, but she's also still angry at mum for kicking her out (BM really lost it that day and did some nasty things to SD). She would like to go back but she wants her mum to call her first. This will be a long wait. BM will never call her first, she CANNOT ring. She's already given SD13 a note to give to SD14 at school, but the note only said something about a message that SD's boss left with BM and "I love you sweetheart". This is BM's way of saying "Please come home and I'm sorry" but without saying it of course. And SD knows it and doesn't think it's good enough. She really wants her mum to call her so they can talk about it. But BM cannot talk about things, only deny and pretend it's all good again, till next time..

So I'm not sure what will happen next, but I think it's what JNM said: "I wouldn't be surprised if this has blown over in a week and nothing more is said. Then in 6 months it will happen again. Lather, rinse, repeat."

We have had a few conversations with SD14 to get her to think about making a decision for herself, for her own good. To live with us and spend f.e. weekends at BM, so she can stay in a routine. Instead of going back and forth like she has been. We try not to pressure her, but at the same time we do not plan on becoming the 'dumping ground' either. I'm thinking SD14 will make the right decision.

I'm glad SD is doing OK for now. I was thinking the other day how common it was when I was a kid for teenagers to spend a summer or a school year with grandparents, an aunt or uncle, even an adult older sibling. So I don't think it's anything new for parent/teenager issues, and after the kids would spend some time elsewhere and see that the grass is not really greener, they'd seem to come back with a new appreciation for their parents.

BUT. That's great when it's all family working together for a common interest, which was usually reunification of parent and child at the end of a break from each other. Even in the few cases I knew where a kid would stay with a different relative through the end of high school, that relative was not trying to convince the kid that their parents were cruel or didn't love them or any such.

Now it's often a whole different thing, and that's unfortunate. Too often now it's divorced parents, and they'll start trying to play a game against each other of who the kid likes best or something (NOT saying that that's what you're doing!) It's really too bad. It would have been so much better if BM and DH could have decided before issues came to a head that maybe it would be best if SD stay with DH for a defined time period, to alleviate pressure there, instead of things happening the way that they are.

Yabber, this isn't directed at you guys at all - we all know that "co-parenting" doesn't work if only one is willing to do it. It was just more of a general statement. It's too bad that the courts too often allow kids to decide whom they're going to live with once they're a certain age so they can end up bouncing back and forth at will.

That said, I'm glad that SD is with you all for however long it may be. Even if it's for not that long this time I think she'll start to appreciate how nice it is to live a normal, structured life.

SD may end up wanting to stay in this chaos free environment you are giving her.

When I was a junior in h.s. my mom and I got into a huge battle (one of many) because I was ruining her marriage. AKA my stepdad knew she was cheating and put me in the middle asking me questions in which I answered honestly. It caused problems in their marriage and she took it out on me. Well one night she got my stepdad mad at me over something I did not do and he came in my room in a furry and freaked out on me. They both told me to get out (at midnight!) so I did.

I walked to a friends house down the street and he drove me to my dads house. My mom made it hard on me...she called my school and said I changed residency so I had to switch schools. She tried to report me as a runaway. She would not let me get all my things. So my dad went to court and got an emergency order of protection for me against my mom and it ordered that she return my possessions. She emptied my room into boxes and then dumped her ashtrays and my bedroom garbage on top!

I had enough and loved my dad and stepmoms calm home. I missed my siblings at my moms house, but not enough to go back. Having stability and calmness in my life changed me. I went from getting c's, d's, and f's and doing summer school each summer to making honor roll for the next two years and going onto college. I was happy and actually attending school on a regular basis.

What you are doing is making a huge difference!!! Without my stepmom and dad I don't know what would have happened. They never pressured me to stay, but were there with open arms to listen and help me. Like what you are doing! Keep it up!!

Incognito wow! I'm curious what is your relationship with your mom now? And is she still with your stepdad?

Yabber sd 14 will likely enjoy this new routine and how it's making her feel and want to stay! It's awesome news that she is doing well. Considering the situation.

why dont you guys take her to court and make it official for sd to stay with you in a healthy stable living environment.

the court order should not as flexible as you say. The children really dont know what is in there best interest. i would go to court with her emails/texts and school records. the girls might resent you at first but in time - they will understand and be thankful for this. My sd is only 6 and to her the grass sounds so much greener w/ BM even though she would be sleeping on the floor with bed bugs and 5 adults in the house.no couch and not even a dinner table to sit together and eat. Once your SDs see and feel the love on a full time basis - it would probabaly be an amazing turn around... untill you make them mad of course but that is to be expected. I feel for you and it scares me to know that most likely i will be in your same situation when my sd is considered old enough to choose...

Oh Incognito that sounds so similar! Thanks for sharing, it gives me hope >>.

SD also got kicked out after her BM started raging. She spat it when they were driving home from school, BM took a different road to how she normally drives home, then hit the brakes and kicked SD out of the car. SD wasn't sure where she was (BM would have taken the different road on purpose?) but found her way home. When she came home at first she couldn't get in because BM had locked the door, but eventually SD13 let her in.

SD found BM going through her stuff in her room, accusing her of stealing BM's stuff?? She told SD to pack her things but did not give her privacy, staying in SD's room and raging. It made it impossible for SD to pack properly and BM didn't let her take most things anyway. So at the moment BM has SD's laptop & memory stick (with some homework on it), her camera, her SD card, you know stuff that matters to her. BM gave SD the laptop for her 14th birthday and has used the thing against her ever since. We don't really want her to have a laptop (she can use family computer) so this has been a great bargaining chip for BM. SD is expecting to not have a room anymore when she goes back. BM has done this before, moving all her stuff out, making room for the little siblings :-(

It's so frustrating for SD that she can't get her stuff, it's HER stuff! You know what BM said to SD about her own laptop? SD can buy it from BM if she wants it back...

On a positive note: last night SD was talking to her aunt on the phone (BM's sister) and we heard her say how she's been feeling a lot better, less tired and more energy. She's also proud that she's going to school every day.

This afternoon BM is supposed to drop SD13 off for the normal visitation. I'm expecting SD13 to tell SD14 "Mum wants to talk to you" so that SD14 has to go up to the car to see BM. That way BM can make it in her own mind that SD approached her. I know this sounds petty, but even SD has already figured it out and is not sure if she'll go to the car if this is to happen.

wow BM is is a nut job!!

Myfampg: my mom and stepdad did stay together until he died a few years ago. She had many affairs and he was such a workaholic I think that he just decided it was easier to put up with that and have someone to come home to then to start over with someone new. Our relationship has been crazy since.

After she kicked me out and realized that I was not coming crawling back it drove her crazy and she had my sisters calling me begging me to come home. She wrote me a letter not admitting fault, but trying to say she did the best she could and sorry if that wasn't good enough for me!
I refused to talk to her for a few years and did not allow her to attend my baby shower when I had my ds. My sisters came with a gift and card from my mom and were told to tell me how our mom spent the entire morning crying! She did show up at the hospital after I had him though. I eventually began speaking to her again. Since my stepdad died she has a new guy and has tried to rewrite history though. She tells all these happy family stories to this guy in front of me and I seriously have to not listen or I will loose it because they are all fiction! I just got to the point where I decided having her in my life a little was better than not at all. I know its crazy.

Each of my sisters could not stand her house either and came to live with me as soon as they turned 18. None of us are really close to our mom now. And I think it really bothers my mom now because her new boyfriend is a great dad to his kids and very involved in their lives. She has been really reaching out to us since she started dating this guy.

Incognite, would you mind if I send you a private email because I want to ask you something about your mum's mental health and I don't want to sound presumptuous on a public forum. But there's so many similarities with our BM and we did figure a few things out that I'd like to share with you.
My email is yabberu@yahoo.com (I won't be offended if you'd rather not)