From reading your previous posts I can tell that your frustrated with bm. And you have good reason to be. I can not say that your choice is right or wrong because of what you have to deal with from bm. My sd's bm seems much like yours so I can see how your skids bm would deserve the same treatment she gives you. The only warning I have is to think about how it will affect the kids. Will she go through all the hassle to see her kids or will she say forget it? If your sure she will go through the hassle than I am all for letting her. If it will deter her from seeing her kids you should think long and hard about that decision. I know that I never want my sd to look and me and hubby and be able to say we kept her from her bm. I would much rather have her see that the only thing that keeps her from seeing or talking to her bm IS her bm.

I was talking to my dh about this post today becuase your bm reminds me of ours. He laughed. He said to tell you go ahead and refuse to do the driving! Make bm go above and beyond for once.

Who pays for the plane tickets for the children to visit BM?

Since we have custody and get no cs and she is the one who moved out of state it is her responsibility to pay for plane tickets.

Ah. So, based on your plan, to not to drive the children to the airport actually would involve at least an additional $2000 tab to BM.

Let me ask you something... Does BM have the right to make alternate arrangements to get her children to the airport so she can see them without having to pay for a plane ticket there and back for herself because you won't drive them to the airport?

Or, is this about something else?

I think its beyond time that a child support order/visitation order was put in place. If she had to contribute to the kids support, you and your husband would not be stuck paying the entire shot yourselves to raise the kids, and bm would have visitation standardized, so that no one could be tempted to use visitation as a pawn, which is really not in the kids best interest.

How are the kids going to feel if mom tells them...I cant get you this summer, because your SM and your BD are refusing to drive you to the airport, and I cant afford to work around that? I doubt they will understand when you explain that their mom pays no support. Kids should not be the trophies, caught in the middle of support and visitation issues.

I know that isnt what you are trying to do, you are just frustrated. But the way around the frustration is to get a court order for support and visitation, rather than taking it out by using the kids.

The support order and visitation has already been put in place. Is that not right?

I think she said in a previous topic that there is no court order for visitation, and there is no court order for support.

Posted by mom2emall (My Page) on Wed, Mar 26, 08 at 14:59

Since we have custody and get no cs and she is the one who moved out of state it is her responsibility to pay for plane tickets.

nice try kathline

From a previous topic...

Posted by mom2emall (My Page) on Wed, Mar 5, 08 at 20:51

"The bm does not have any court ordered visitation. The court papers say that my dh has the final decision about any visitation. That is a result of her behaviors.
Since she does not work and has more kids and a bf who is unemployed frequently I do not see her going to court to change the order, especially because then she would be ordered to pay cs. So I do not think this will even go to court. "

So, at the current time, there is no court order for support, nor any court order for visitation. As I said, perhaps it is time that there is. Mom2emall;s husband deserves to have some financial help raising these kids, and a court order for visitation would spell out when, under what circumstances, and who makes arrangements for visits.
What exactly do you mean by nice try?

Thanks Kathline. I am not sure what Colleen means either?

I guess I am just frustrated. She orders pictures and does not pay for them. She keeps a car and never gets my dh's name off it and then it gets reposessed. She can not afford to pay any of that stuff but then she can manage to mail candy and other BS and come up with plane fare? We can take her to court and get all kinds of things in writing that she should pay for, but at the end of the day she wont pay anything. And how can they make her? Garnish the wages at a job she does not have?

it's called contempt of court, but you are right mom2emall, it would probably cost you money you don't have or have better uses for, than to waste it chasing 'justice'. and it's more likely that if you take her to court for child support, she might start fighting for custody. Whether she can win or not, it would be additional legal expense.

I am not trying to be negative, but why is it always about money? I notice so many families that are torn apart because so and so owes us this and so and so owes us that. I know that money is tight - I think it is tight for everybody with children, but stop thinking just about the money and start thinking about the kids.

The kids need their mom just like they need you and their dad. Refusing to help them see their mom is only going to cause resentment if they find out.

My dad never paid child support. My mom would buy him photo packages of me, she would drive me wherever he was so I could see him and she delt with a lot of the same behavior that you are dealing with now. If she hadnt dont these things I would have, to this day, thought she tried to keep me away from him. Your SK's may do the same.

Just food for thought.

Doesn't matter if she doesn't have a job .... get something so what if she doesn't pay .... eventually she will have to get a job and pay it ... in MA DOR keeps track of how much is owed and will do whatever is necessary to recoup the payments.... get an order!

Is she getting state aid for the younger ones? (if I have my mom's in the right order) Your SC have younger siblings? how is she supporting them? They will attach her state aid if she is getting any for the younger ones.... and it is "assumed" that even with out a job the NCP is making atleast $20,000 per year.

Mid.. they are not keeping her from her children ... BM fills the childrens head with these fantasies about how great its going to be when we are all together.... and then doesn't show up... Mom2 and hubby are just tired of bending over backwards to appease mom and she still doesn't hold up her end of the agreement. Last summer was a mess so I am sure this one will be as well ... (mom2 I may be confused again but) didn't the grandparents want to fight for custody and gave you and hubby grief over what days they were going to visit mom? And you and hubby paid for the tickets last year if I remember right.

I get confused between mom2 and momof4... I'll work on it though.. :) So I might have my "facts" a little screwy but unless the NCP is cooperative and putting children first there should be an exact order for everything.... even who feeds the kids on exchange days.

If there were a court order, then, if the mom doesnt pay her imputed income, arrears would accumulate. At some point, she will have to pay the piper or have her assets seized. At the very least, her tax refunds will be taken. No parent should have to raise a child without at least some financial help from the other parent.

She may ask for custody, but since she abandoned the kids and they are settled at mom2;s house, she wont get it.

And a visitation order gives Mom2;s husband the ability to know in advance what is happening and who pays for it, and is healthier for the kids.

Most of that is right cawfe. Last summer was an absolute mess. BM could not just talk to dh about dates. BM's mom had to and them bm's boyfriend had to verify plans, made no sense. Anyways between all these rocket scientists they managed to disreguard what my dh had said about dates and go ahead and buy tickets for different dates as well as extend the trip without checking with dh. So he stuck to his guns and made them go back to the original departure date (becuause we had things going on with the kids right before that date) and he did let them keep the kids a little longer. While there bm filled their head with "if you lived here......" and "at ____age a judge will let you decide where you want to live" and "does mom2emall yell, hit, be mean, fight with daddy, throw things, hit things, etc." and "is your stepbrother mean to you, does he treat you bad, does mom2emall treat him better than you guys" and she drilled them over and over again with the same questions. It was like she was trying to get them to finally agree to these ridiculous things.

Oh ya, when wonderful bm lived in state kids saw police at her home AT least 3 times that we know of. All 3 times were domestic issues between bm and her bf or bf and his live-in family. All 3 instances involved alcohol.

Only thing not correct is us paying for airfare, we did not. Grandparents did.

midwestmommy:
Part of it is about the money. Part of having children is financially supporting them and it is not right that she can use her money to buy BS for the kids (candy constantly-and stupid stuffed animals and expensive halloween costumes) instead of necessities. It is not fair that she can use her money to drive a nicer vehicle than we have, after she got her car repossessed and it went on dh's credit and she "can't pay" she says! Its not fair that she sits home and gets state aid while we work and take care of the kids. At one point she was collecting state aid for the 3 we have, not just the others she has! Must be nice to have the state giving you money to raise kids you don't raise!! So ya, we do resent the fact that she does not help with the kids.

When she lived in-state we never denied her visitation. She showed up when she felt like it. Other times she promised to come and I sat there with the kids watching their faces drop as the time passed and they did not have a number to even call her to see what happened.

They know we allow visitation and that their mom is the one who has blown them off.

It sounds like you guys are stuck in a really rough spot. I didnt realize that she was collecting aid on the 3 that were not even living with her! Wow, what some people will do. I would report her for public assistance fraud. And even though it may cost a bit of money, see if you can find a lawyer that will take a payment plan and go after her.

It sucks when parents do this to their kids. :\

I went back and forth on the idea last year when we first realized she was claiming them to get more state aid. (She made some comment about being able to take them to the dentist by her because she has state insurance) Why else would she have state insurance on them? My dh has excellent insurance on them from work. All we could think is that she gets aid on her other kids, so add 3 more and you get a heck of an amount of food and cash each month, as well as housing assistance!

I really did want to call on her, but I did not want to be the one blamed for her getting in legal trouble and have her telling the kids it was all our fault. So I let it go and just hope that the system catches up with her. The kids do not even live in the same state and have been to the dr. many times in our state with our insurance and go to public schools in our state. Somehow she has to get caught up eventually! I heard that on occassion they make you verify the other parents info so they can go after the other parent for money.....so if she gives them my dh's name it will all unravel on her.

If she is on aid, they WILL go after your DH for all that money they are paying her. In CA, it's a requirement to name the father. They also have to verify that the children are attending school, so if that's the case in her state, I don't know how she'd get around that. I don't know how you could be blamed for getting her in legal trouble, she's the one that filled out the application stating the kids live with her. She's the one that cashes and uses the checks and other benefits she gets. In CA, anything over $800, I believe is a felony. If she is still getting money for them, I would make sure they know she doesn't have the kids. Is your DH's name on the birth certificates? If it is, they already know enough to go after him, if they require a copy of the birth certificate like CA does. They may be slow, but what is he going to do when they file a petition for support and go back to day one. Again, I only know the regulations in CA, but here, they will go back to the date the aided parent first applied, even if they don't find the absent parent for ten or fifteen years. When that happens, your DH will be in the position to have to prove the kids were with him all that time. He may not get in trouble because it's easy to prove through school records, but it would be much more of a hassle to answer for it ten years later.... It's much easier to nip it in the bud and keep her from putting your DH through that and putting her other kids through the problems of mommy going to prison and having to pay all the aid back. Those other kids will suffer and that alone is a good reason to turn her in now.

My dh did not like the idea of turning her in. If she gets caught on her own then so be it. As you pointed out it will be easy to prove they live with us....can't go to school in one state and really live 3,000 miles away full-time can you? Let her get caught eventually, I really do not care. She needs to learn the consequences of her actions. So far she has done whatever she wants without regards to how it will affect others and she has seen no consequences. If this catches up to her then it is her fault! Maybe it won't catch up to her...who knows. Not really my problem though. IF the state catches her then at least I did not cause them to catch her and prosecute her. As far as her other kids, well I guess they will get to see their mom as often as the ones here do if she goes to jail!

In florida they require that you state who the father is as well so that they can go after the father for cs... at least that is what they tell everyone. I did a lot of research when my daughter was first born because her father didnt want to be involved and that was okay with me since it was one of those random mistakes despite protection ... anyways... come to find out children are gauranteed assistance and health care it is only when I try to include myself that I have to reveal who the father is ... so when I went to apply for aid for the first few months after her birth (since I was laid off from my job) They tried to tell me I had to go to cs awareness classes and tell them three possible people that could be the father (not that there were three people I could name but besides the point) and I simply told them no... I dont have to ... I just need to fill out this form. They were not happy but I was informed. Shortly after I got another job and dad realized that he couldnt just not be involved in his kids life... so it worked out... but my point was since it was brought up it pays to be informed. (for anyone who wants to know)

People that lie, cheat, scam taxpayer money, and refuse to support their own children make my hair hurt. Seriously. There is no reason to feel any sympathy at all about turning them in. IF they will do that to the taxpaying public, and if they will deny their own children that way, chances are they will also lie about it when they get caught and try to blame it on someone else.

Get the court ordered support. If she can't pay, put it into arrears--you can collect it out of any lawsuit or judgment she wins, garnish her wages, or inheritances. You can put liens on her house, and if it takes that long, you will be able to garnish her social security. Also it as the arrearages mount, it keeps them out of court.