Exactly what palimpsest, marcolo, and florantha said. You definitely want the light centered on the table, regardless of where the table ends up in the room. Having the hutch placed where it is automatically makes your room asymmetrical. Because your room is too small to accomodate the same amount of space (as taken up by the hutch) on the opposite side of the room, the light will have to placed out of center from the ceiling. Yes, the more symmetrical features/details (such as a tray ceiling, medallion, etc) that you have, the more noticeable it will be. That doesn't necessarily mean it will look bad, but it will not look perfectly symmetrical.

Optionally, you can change the size of the room, recess the hutch, move or eliminate the hutch to allow the table to be centered. Potentially you could move the hutch to one of the ends of the room: either a smaller hutch between the windows, or potentially on the wall in between the two doorways.

Yes, it is for a chandelier. And I completely agree, LL, the table would SOOO look better centered.
However, the built-in cabinet has not even been put in yet so no tearing it out willtv :). The house doesn't even have drywall yet. However, I do not think we can put the cabinet recessed into the wall because there are other built ins right on the other side of the wall in my mud room. I can't forgo the built-in because we need a place for the warming drawer and dish display, and even if I just got rid of it, I'd still need furniture along that wall so the table would still need to be off-center.

So, I guess I put it centered over the table and cope with it not being centered with the windows or the trey ceiling? Right? I am really nervous about making that choice!

If that's what it has to be, would you try to get a bigger or wider light fixture so it is less noticeable?

florantha there is 30 inches between the cabinet and the table so there should be plenty of space to walk through. There is no place else to put the cabinet unfortunately. The wall next to the arched entry door is not deep enough to accommodate it and putting it on the other wall just creates the opposite problem of it not being centered the other way. I can't move the windows, they are centered with the front of the house and already in. The wall with the corner cabs has the windows.

IMO, the light needs to be centered over the table.

IMO, the light needs to be centered in the tray ceiling.

You have need of this hutch. All 3 variables cannot play nice together in this room to make it perfect...

Here's a solution that just hit my head. I don't guarantee it'll look good... but if I were you, I'd certainly mock it up quickly so I could visualize it...

Remember the old fashioned swag chandeliers? have the light come out of the ceiling in the middle of the tray part (therefore middle of the room) with a pretty medallion etc surrounding it... and then swag it over to the middle of the table. Do you know what I'm talking about? As I said, I'd want to see an actual computer rendering before saying it's a good idea... but it's worth a shot to see if you can have your cake and eat it too!!!

Beagles- This is not your fault, your architect should have seen this. It's pretty obvious the built-in is going to throw the whole room off center...and with a tray ceiling, no less.

To me, this would be a huge issue. Isn't the mudroom, between the dining room and the garage? Is there anyway you can recess the cabinet, maybe with a little cabinet space on each side (in the mudroom) and then bump the mudroom into the garage a little?

I realize that sometimes you have to make compromises, but this really should have been caught by the architect, IMHO. I'd also check and make sure none of the other rooms (like the breakfast room) are going to have a simlar problem.

Best of luck finding a solution...if anyone can, you will :)

Lavender- no architect. We saw a french manor home our builder had built and we just took the floor plans from that and modified them for our needs. The "architect" was me.

The mudroom is up against the staircase in the basement leading to the garage so we can't bump it over. There is a grooming tub for the dogs right against the wall on the other side that can't go anywhere since it was quite the problem figuring out where exactly to place that!

I wasn't planning on putting this hutch in originally or someone might have noticed this earlier. I only recently decided that we needed the warming drawer there- we were going to use free standing furniture before. But, like I said, I think that would have created the same problem.

However, after florantha asked her question, I went back and looked at my cabinet makers drawings and for whatever reason, it appears he has the room drawn at only 10.5 feet wide. But the actual room on my floor plan is 13 feet wide. I am assuming that all that space didn't just disappear. My cabinet maker had not been out to measure since I added the cabinet, so I am hoping hoping and praying that he was just looking at the wrong thing when he mocked out the picture. At a 13 foot wide room, I think I should be able to have an 18 inch deep hutch and maybe still center the table.

I've left word for my cabinet maker to get back to me as soon as he can. I have determined nothing will happen with the electricity until this is resolved so my electrician can do other wiring in other rooms right now until I have some idea of how to solve this problem. I REALLY hope this works out and that the drawing was just wrong!!

Lawjedi, I like the idea of the swag a lot, so if this does have to be off centered, then I think I will think about doing that!

You may really want to forgo the tray ceiling in this case since it will emphasize the off-centeredness. Just make the whole ceiling higher.

Beagles: Do you have to have the tray ceiling? I think this is going to highlight the issue even more and I would probably not do it if in the end, my table was going to be off-center. Maybe you could do another type of ceiling detail which won't call attention to it being off center?

I believe the tray ceiling build-up (build-down?) just went in on Friday. i will have to check. I am doing this build all long distance so all decisions and instructions from me come via email and all drawings/designs come to me via email, so it makes it very hard.

I am still waiting for a response from my cabinet maker on whether the room is actually 10.5 feet as drawn in his pictures and that started this crisis, or whether it is 13 feet on the floor plan. If it is only 10.5 feet and that is creating this whole issue, then my builder is going to have to come up with a solution for me that makes it OK that the room is 1.5 feet smaller than it should be, whatever that solution may be, which perhaps may mean getting rid of the trey ceiling. If it is not and the cabinet maker just sent me the wrong dimensions, then I will (hopefully) be able to center the table right....

13 foot wide room & 18 inch deep cabinet, so that means if I account for 1.5 feet on each side of the room, and then 2 feet on each side of the room for clearance, I SHOULD have plenty of space for a table in the middle. And then it will look slightly off centered maybe because it is not centered exactly between the distance from cabinet to wall, but it will be centered in the room between the windows and the ceiling. So that is what I should do right?

(Did I just confuse everything?)

I am just crossing my fingers that this mornings drawings were all wrong!

(I apologize for posting a "dumb" and off-topic post too, especially if that was the case!) and I thank everyone for their helpful comments in my little emergency. My electrician did other stuff today instead, since I could not give an answer right away, so I thankfully I bought myself a little more time to figure this out :)

Beagles, mock up 30 inches betweeen a table and a wall. Then put a chair in there and try to sit and have someone walk around.
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If the cabinet did not have the tiered bump-out in its front you would have a tad more room, yes?
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My two cents....Looks to me like your cabinet has more clout in the plans than the dining table and dining area. You're going to lose the dramatic ceiling, the symmetry of table + ceiling, and the luxurious spaciousness that the table deserves. How important is that warming drawer? Could a more modest unit go between the windows, perhaps a lower without an upper?

If the drawings did not turn out to have incorrect spacing, I will try to revise the cabinet I think. You make good points florantha.

If there are built ins behind this perhaps the center part could be cheated back into the mudroom or specifically the warming drawer could be recessed into the wall to accomodate it in a shallower cabinet.

Palimpsest there is a grooming tub- with plumbing- on the other side. The grooming tub can't move. It took me a very long time to figure out where to place the grooming tub, as that was a late addition.

I think the lesson I am learning is to stop adding things to this house!

Still waiting for an answer on whether my drawings were wrong. They better have been. I know my cab maker did not measure that room before sending me the drawings b/c the cabinet just got added this weekend and he was going out to the house today to measure and talk to the electrician. So, hopefully everything was measured today and we'll be working out some kind of amicable CENTERED solution tomorrow because I really cannot put the electrician off for much longer on this. He also needs to place the wall sconces on either side of the cabinets. Who knows what problems that will create!

What kind of window treatments (and actually, window trim) are you planning?:

Your corner hutches appear to allow 3-4 inches on the outer sides of the windows for trim. You are going to have to make a decision as to what to do here, because you don't want an unpaintable sliver of wall between the window trim and the cabinet. (If you are not using draperies this will really show) Most carpenters would leave whatever gap unless something is specified.

If you *are using draperies understand that you will not be able to use rods with finials unless you want them in the middle only and even open the drapery will cover a good bit of the window, since it can't be stacked back onto the wall. Thats okay because that is a traditional look, but understand that the drapery will be right at the edge of the corner cabinets.

Thanks for asking that question palimpsest- I did not even think about the window trim and the cabinets needing to play nicely with each other. I've emailed my cabinet maker to let him know I do not want a tiny unpaintable gap. What SHOULD I do there? Should I make the cabinet come over to the trim or the trim come over to the cabinet or how should that be handled do you think?

I don't think I'll do any curtains at all. Those windows overlook a really beautiful pond in the front yard, and we are high up on a private hill so we don't need privacy and I don't want to block any of the windows. Unless the light becomes obtrusive, I'm not really planning on covering up any of my windows with treatments.

If it helps at all, this is a picture of the dining room in the house our house is modeled after so our windows should be very similar in style and placement since we didn't change that wall in the room at all. They don't have drapes and I don't think they are needed. I don't know what they were doing with these chandeliers!

Personally I would never build anything that permanently foreclosed the possibility of drapery in a dining room. You could change your mind. And in my house, the day the drapers arrived was like a light switch going on-completley changed the feeling of the whole space. Remember, that picture you posted isn't even set up like a real dining room to help you judge--it looks like a restoration hardware catalogue before the furniture strippers arrived.

To my eye, those end windows look a little flounder eyed, with the corner cabs pulling them apart. Do you need so much tall cabinetry, especially given the china cabs in your kitchen? I'm a little worried sitting at your dining table could feel like you're looking up at Manhattan. Plus, remember you will really need a server of some sort on that wall. Could get very furniture heavy.

Haha Marcolo, come on, restoration hardware would have a potato sack dining room table or something! (Right, that's restoration hardware, or am I showing my ignorance)

I don't know if I can say I NEED the cabinets but I've always wanted corner china cabinets since I had them at an apartment in SF. Not to mention, I have a LOT of dishes- a formal lenox set, a casual lenox set, a blue and white currier and ives from my mom, a christmas lenox set, and on and on and on... my mom collected dishes and I collect everything (lol). I also don't know how I'd ever do draperies with the rounded windows anyway w/o losing the architectural detail of the rounded windows. Although I could do something like this, and that wouldn't interefere with the cabinets anyway:

However, I do see your point about the windows being pulled apart. I will ask my cabinet maker (once the dimensions problem gets straightened out) to draw the room without the corner cabinets and see how I feel about it then.

Architects routinely forget to consider window treatments when planning window locations. Okay, thats a sweeping generalization but I find it to be rather consistent.

Real Palladian windows in revival houses of the 18th and 19th centuries generally had pocket shutters in the window embrasures to close over them, or the exterior shutters would be closed as needed. They were generally a triple window with a arch flanked by two rectangles, at least around here.

When they started putting drapery over them as textiles became more affordable They either used a pelmet shaped to the arch or in later Victorian periods just ignored it altogether and layered it on.

Palimpsest,now that you raised this point, I went back through my pictures and I am realizing I'm going to have major issues figuring out window treatments throughout my whole house if I decide I want to do any draperies. Essentially, the entire back wall of my house and most of the front is windows. They almost all have arches, triangle peaks, are wall to wall or have something about them that is going to make them difficult to put any kind of normal drapery treatment on.

Do you think that is going to be a problem? Would you do some kind of closable shutters?

I guess it is too late to think about this now! I just wanted to maximize views and I never once ever thought about drapes until you brought this up.

see- no room for drapes anywhere!

I think you will be needing Plantation shutters throughout your house!

Dining room - I have the same problem - our giant antique China cabinet is where yours is and yes, that forces the table off-center by about a foot. Currently the chandelier is not centered, but even though I am a perfectionist, it doesn't bother me because it is centered on the ceiling. That being said, we ARE having it centered over the table when we have the electrician in to wire the kitchen. It drives my mother NUTS not being centered over the table. But, our DR is the original - and the giant antique furniture just won't fit into any other room, so off-center is a must :( However, the window is on the same wall as the China cabinet, not the short wall, and the doorways are off-center, so it really doesn't look bad.

In your room however, with the windows and corner hutches, I'd go crazy if the table is not centered - it will never look right. But, I agree that the windows must be properly placed based on the exterior of the house (totally screwed up furniture placement in our new Master Bedroom - NONE of my existing furniture will fit :(

Your problem isn't really the windows - it is the centered wall in between them. If that was ALL windows then your table would not appear SO off-center. Maybe you can add a window without an arch in between.

Hutch / trim: Is your cabinetmaker also your trim person? If that drawing is to scale then the window trim must butt-up to the hutch. It looks like the hutch has returns, so that creates a normal 90 deg. angle, so your trim guy should have no problem. But, if there are no returns and the 45 degree angles run right into the walls then the window trim must be beveled out at 22.5 degrees to lap over the edge of the hutch. Note that if you are only trimming around the windows this will look WEIRD! Especially if your trim and cabinets are not the same color. You really should make sure your cabinet and trim guys work together on this so it actually looks like a built-in. With an angled hutch running into the window trim I'd run that side of window trim all the way from the floor to the top of the hutch. How high are those hutches? With the arch windows they should end BELOW the arched transoms. Otherwise the hutches should go all the way to the ceiling. Anything else will not look right.

natschultz I haven't decided who is doing trim yet for most of the room, but the builder is doing the trim around the windows. I already emailed the cabinet maker and told him that I did not want a gap and that the trim would need to be worked out to come in to the cabinet. I'm waiting for a reply tomorrow. I'm also hoping the measurement problem will have been worked out today and I'll be able to center the table

I will ask about the height of the cabinets too. I am thinking we'll probably take them to the ceiling, although the other cabinet in the room is the only one we are NOT taking to the ceiling in the whole entire house because I wanted the stacked molding and because I didn't want to interfere with the tray ceiling. We are doing panel and trim throughout the room, as well as crown molding, etc. My trim and cabinets are not the same color. Trim is white throughout the house and cabinets are stained blue wood to match a blue and yellow tile mural on the hall floor.

This post made me realize why some of the formal dining rooms in magazines recently featured unusually narrow dining room tables (which, incidentally, conform to the measurements of ready-made French table cloths). Is your dining room table selection firm? Would a (perhaps) custom, narrower one allow symmetry?

Kitchen detective, my dining room table selection is not firm. I even mentioned to my cab maker this AM when he asked for my expected table size that I would like to find someone to make me a custom table. I was hoping he could do it (kinda like an island right?) but he did not volunteer :(

We are very close to lancaster pa and this house is getting ALL new furniture, save a few old henredon bedroom pieces, so I'm hoping when I start to buy furniture, I can find some amish furniture maker to do a lot of custom stuff for me. I already know I need a custom kitchen table set based on what I want for in there, style wise, and probably custom bar stools because I bumped the height of my counter to an odd height to accommodate hidden silverware drawers that I "needed". So, perhaps a custom dining room table could be the answer!

I don't know that you really need my input but I'm up and did recently deal with window treatments. I would only concern myself about them where you really need them for privacy since you have great windows. Because of the windows I would do custom. I used shades and the person came to my house. I am outside of New York City. He had a great selection and I see ads for this type of service all the time. Regarding the dining room I would focus on what you have there that you like and need and perhaps not do a chandelier since there are so many size issues. I think its good that you are getting sconces and would look for light sources in other areas of the room because the chandelier seems to be causing such issues with placement.

My 2 pennies. My DR will have a similar chandy-table centering issue. I think the only way to go is center the chandy over the table, not the room. Chandies are supposed to be down lower to the table than head height, right? Then someone's head could potentially bonk the fixture. I'm huge on symmetry too, but I'll have to get over it in this case.

Also, not to be picky, but you need way more clearance than 30" between table and another fixed structure. Buehl gives measurements for kitchen stool and dining table clearance in the Read Me thread in one of the layout basics. I think you need more like 54". I KNOW that not every situation can conform to NKBA guidelines, but the clearance issue is a big one in my book.

I used to have about 30" along the long side of my dining table b/w it and the wall. That amount of space is barely passable for one person to walk behind comfortably with the chair pushed in. If a diner is sitting at the chair, someone walking behind has to turn sideways and squeeze to get by. I cringed every time I watched a guest do this.

I know every dining table can't have huge walkways around, but with your huge house and design style you might want to think about the squeeze factor. That, and all the tall pieces around the room could make it feel almost claustrophobic. I'm not trying to be mean! I want you to have a rockin DR!

If you are going to have nice millwork on all the windows and don't have to worry so much about privacy, you could put shutters, wooden venetian blinds or cellular shades (all inside mount) on the windows as needed. That will showcase the view and the millwork details.

Beagles, Hey, I grew up in PA ... Near New Hope. Lancaster is pretty.
One thought in re a DR table... Given the style you like, you may want to check estate sales. I forget where, but I was just reading, i think in the WSJ, where prices on traditional furniture have fallen quite steeply, because of empty nester downsizing and the generally soft market for all assets, as well as a preference for simpler lines and mcm. We are an example of that ourselves. One of our first purchases was a cherry dr set, I think Baker but can't recall, easily seats 12. It was great in an old brick Georgian, but our new style is more, as my GC dubs it, "country estate". I may just store rather than sell, as I think the article said prices are off 75pct

mtnrdredux, you are spot on. New DR tables remain quite expensive, but wonderful furniture is just being given away at estate sales. It is of significantly better quality than the Chinese junk available at retail.

So, here's the update. The cabinet maker got the measurements yesterday and got back to me this morning and as long as I keep my table to 48 inches wide or less, I can have it centered! That will give me a 30 inch clearance between cabinet and table.

I was going to mock this up this morning, but then I went into my parent's dining room and measured what they had, just to compare. It turns out, my parent's dining table has exactly 30 inches between the side of the table and the cabinet; 24 inches between the back of the chair and the cabinet. We've been eating in there my whole life and my mom has hosted WAY more dinner parties than I ever will (she cooked- I don't) and I have never ever noticed an issue and I asked my dad and he said he's never seen anyone have a problem either and never really thought about it over the 25 years we've been living here. So, I think I am OK with the 30 inches!

paige16, thanks for the input :) We don't need window treatments anywhere for privacy. We are very high up on a private hill and own the 5 acres around us and are sort of in the middle of a big forest of trees- no one's seeing in unless they are REALLY determined! My plan was to do no window treatments at all, but then Marcolo and Palimpsest made me think I might want them :) And thanks palimpsest, I like the idea of doing some kind of pretty shutters on windows when I do need them.

Thanks breezy. I wouldn't think you were trying to be mean :) I'm going to think about the issue of feeling claustrophobic because of the cabinets. I need to actually go to the house I think, but it is hard when it is 5 1/2 hours away from me. DF is there, so I'll try to send him over maybe and have him do a little mock-up.

Mtnrdredux, that's a good idea about estate sales. I've gotten some Henredon and Drexel furniture from estate sales in the past and I have looked for dining tables a bit casually on and off but nothing has really impressed me so far. I'm going to keep looking though... want to sell me yours ;) We go to estate sales regularly anyway because we are looking for old books to fill our 2 story library shelves.

marcolo we are very careful not to buy chinese junk, but it is everywhere I'm finding. Even some of the newer ethan allen pieces and I used to love the ethan allen country french and georgian court line :(

That's why I'm hoping to get custom stuff done whenever I can. I will not have any particle board furniture or pressboard furniture anywhere in the house. Yuck!

Beagles: In regards to shutters, this is one of those things that is harder to do after the fact. I learned this the hard way. Typical trim does not accomodate the depth of the shutters so if you think you'll want them you should identify the windows and adjust your trim now. We have plantation and "indian" shutters in our home and our Contractor worked with Devenco shutters to make sure our trim would work. If you think you'll want them you could contact them and they will guide your contractor through what's needed. Here are pictures, the second one shows you the extra piece of trim you'll need.

Here is a link that might be useful: Devenco Shutters

O.T.
With all those windows, please consider winter treatments for heat loss and south and west facing treatments for summer heat gain. This is a patriotic act.

Thanks chris11895, it never would have occurred to me that I'd have a hard time adding shutters later. I really like some of those shutters from Devenco. The problem is, I wasn't sure what windows I'd end up putting window treatments on because I only want them if the sun glare becomes annoying, otherwise I want to leave the windows alone.... and I won't be able to tell until I live there what windows will need them. But, I don't want to not be able to add them when I want them either! I will have to ask my builder what he thinks and ask DF what windows he thinks he might want shutters on and see about talking to Devenco about planning for at least some shutters now.

Thanks florantha- we are trying to be as energy conscious as we can when possible. We put radiant heat floors in some of the rooms with the highest ceilings (sunroom) and we are also putting in geothermal and have very good insulation.

Beagles - show your contractor that second picture of my shutter. The piece where the hinge is, that's an extra 1" piece of trim which if added in, shouldn't change your look at all. You could ask him to add it to the windows and then you'll be safe if down the road you want to do them? I believe it will also make it so you can inset roman shades easier if need be. If you don't have that trim, companies will usually try to tack a piece of trim over your molding and it looks like cr*p (IMHO).

That's a good idea! I'll just have him add the trim on all the windows so that I can add whatever shades I want. I like thicker and more involved trim anyway because I think it looks nicer and more substantial! I'm saving your picture to my desktop now and I'll email my builder.

Are you having 30" between a warming drawer and the table?

I'd put the table not in the center. And offcenter the tray design above it.

beagles, we are just adding on a small dining area to our old kitchen, with three windows facing north at the end, and one window on each side, facing east and west. As much as we love all the new light and brightness, I know that once summer finally arrives, we will need shades to keep the kitchen cool.

And twice a day, the sun comes in and blinds anyone sitting at the table facing east and west : ). Which is, of course, where I make the kids sit for now! So that's something to check for too, in various rooms. As soon as the walls are finished and window trim is done, I am getting lined bamboo blinds...

Becky

I will have to see how that would like fori. I'm afraid with the windows perfectly centered, an off center trey design would look very strange.

I think my solution to make the space more than 30 inches will be to get a narrower table. I don't need a 48 inch wide table I don't think, do I?

LOL, Beagles.

I am not sure of the table's fate. I put our old house on the market a few weeks ago, and it is part of the staging. In my new house, it would be all wrong in the dining room, which has a slate floor and is solarium-like. I may rent my old house, and if so I may rent it furnished.

I can't recall if it is Baker or maybe Kindel (sp?). I got it from Hendrixson's, which has a store in Emmaus (near you?). They have great stuff if you like traditional, and usually discount about 40% off list. Good service too.

The table has some sentimental value ... it was DH and my's first big joint purchase 12 or so yrs ago, we bought it before we even closed on our first house. It was my "I'm a grown up" table. I don't recall what we paid or what retail was back then, but both figures were somewhere between 5 and 10 for just the table, and then like 600-800 per chair. The table has 2 or three leaves, seats 12 with all the leaves in.

With no leaves the table is about 40"x80". I was thinking of putting centered in my front hall, under two lanterns, and then stage it with books and such. I am not sure if its too big for that, plus I cant find any good images of entrance halls tables staged, where the table is not against a wall and is not round.

Here she is:{{!gwi}}

OK, mtnrdredux, I was kidding before, but now I'm not. What an exquisitely gorgeous table in an amazing room! I can see why that was a "grown-up" table and that's so sweet it was the first thing you and your husband bought together- I would not want to get rid of it if I were you! Meanwhile, I want the table, the chairs, the fireplace and those arches! Can I see more pictures of your house somewhere, it looks absolutely gorgeous?

I like the size too, and I definitely now think that I can get by with a 40 inch table instead of a 48. I'm going to go to that furniture store next time I go back up to PA. I am not from PA and don't currently live there and won't until the house is done, so I don't know where any of the places you are talking about are, but DF did grow up there and lives there now so I will ask him. He'll be happy to go to a close furniture store with me, I've been campaigning for a trip to north carolina to go look at the furniture outlets!

Thank you! If you end up buying new, do try Hendrixson's. But I bet you can find some great deals on old stuff!

We love our old home, but it is in an "urban suburb", if you will and we fell in love with a pond and 10 acres in a "country suburb". I do have to say though, right after we bought our new house, I came to the old one and thought "what AM i thinking?". It was never a fixer upper, but we had done everrrrything to it, including all new windows, roof, pool and huge amounts of landscaping.

But then I walk into our new backyard, with the pond and just say "ahhhhhh". We love it here, but I will always love our old house .. we were married on the verandah there! Everyone tells me our little girls will marry at this new house ... we have a trellis walk and pergola just crying out for a bride(zilla).

Anyway, there are a bunch of photos in the listing, which feels odd to post but it is public anyway! I do have to note that the "salmony" color of the door and dormers is gone ... some dumb color expert chose those. We changed to a mustardy tan and made the door and shutter inkwell black.

Here is a link that might be useful: listing

If you have more space than books, or are just looking for cool ideas in book displays, you must see the attached article. Very cool, take a look.

I have an area of shelves that circle a room, and are too high to reach (PO!) ... I may take DH's old law books and put them spine in, like they do in one photo. If we decide to sue our GC, we can just get them down again, : )

Who'd have ever thought of that idea, spines in? Ok well not anyone who reads!

It also has some links to suppliers of a little less rarified books.

Here is a link that might be useful: decorating w books, now that you have Kindle

I solved this problem by swagging my chandy. The center medalion is in the center of the ceiling, but there is a hook so the chandy is centered over the table.

A neat side affect - when I unhook the chandy, it hangs low enough and off to the side so I can easily clean it without climbing up a ladder.

48"? When did furniture get so big? :)

Mine is 42" wide, what passed as upscale formal in the late 1940s.

(Redux, that's a beautiful table and could pass as a library style hall table I think. But I sure do hate the pedestal legs on my table. Can't push in the chairs!)

Thanks, Fori, I am hoping it will look ok, but I don't want to remove it from the old house and try it until that house is sold/rented/demolished in riots/identified as a Superfund site/or taken over by a celebrity as a private site unknown by paparazzi, for putting on makeup and getting dressed for public appearances (as happened with a friend's condo).

I just wonder, are library table the same height as dining tables? And has anyone seen good ideas for staging center hall tables than are rectangular...

(ps sorry for hijack)

Hey, nobody knows what a library table is supposed to look like! We've only heard of them. :) We know they should be chunky and have big legs. Good 'nuff.

Yes of course leave it for show. But if you can use it again when it's done its duty, that would be nice.

mtnrdredux your house is absolutely absolutely amazing! It makes me want to sell my new-built one and go and buy yours! That window seat with the arched stained glass window is a work of art! And your fireplaces and floors!! I also love your style and ALL of your furniture. You aren't too far from us, so if you have a moving sale, please really let me know and I'll come and buy some of your furniture. That's so cool you got married at the house too and what a beautiful setting to do it. My fiance and I are planning on getting married at our new house as well. I'm sure your new home must be magical for you to leave such a lovely home!

Thanks for the book ideas- there are a bunch of really cool ones! I definitely have more books than shelves. We've got a quasi-two story library with a library ladder and books to the ceiling :) We've been buying those readers digest books at estate sales, the leather bound condensed books. And old law books. I kept a few of my old law books from law school but they are nowhere near as nice as your husband's collection!

beckysharp it is the sun blinding effect that I'm afraid of with the windows that is making me think I'll want to do at least shutters on some of the windows.

macybaby, the swag of the chandelier is definitely a good idea. Then I could do the ceiling medallion I want to do as well.

fori, I agree 48" seems a bit big for a table. That's why I'm hoping I'll be OK w/ space. That was the size I saw on the first three tables I looked at to get an idea of dimensions when I was talking to my cabinet maker, so I'm not sure why they were all so large!

Thanks, Beagles. We love the home too. It is also a two block walk to Whole Foods and the Art Museum, a 20 minute walk to Anthropologie, and we have a park across the street, where they do shakespeare in summer. Montclair is a great town.
But there is also a small condo development right behind my house, and a Wawa behind that (as a Pennsylvanian to be, you need to know what a Wawa is). oh and a cool dive bar everyone loves, but we can sometimes hear their bands.... Hence the "urban suburb" comment.

Your home is lovely and different, and it sounds like it is on a beautiful lot. Best wishes ! I envy your architects cad cam expertise, too.

The library is lovely. I especially love the ladder, and the shelf over the door. Have you sourced the ladder yet? I fell in love with one in a rural ny antique store, but decided to think about it because it seemed pricey. Next day ... Gone.

When we sell our home we will be selling a fair amount of furniture, mirrors, lamps and rugs. Our new house is largely furnished by now. My agents just told me thT she has an offer coming in to buy, and another who want to rent to buy ... So we shall see. Id certainly let you know

mtnrdredux that's funny. My "architect" who did those drawings is my mennonite cabinet maker who only uses the computer for his cabinet business and who is limited to CAD and email- I can't even send him links to pictures, I have to send attachments. He's immensely talented and wonderful, and he found the ladder for us as well. They are pricey! cost almost as much as the cabinet but I had my heart set on it from day #1

Please, definitely let me know about the furniture when you decide what to do. You can email me off board as well. We aren't moving in until December at the earliest so we have plenty of time to buy furniture and probably won't even start looking seriously until we move in unless we happen to stumble upon pieces as beautiful as yours :) It would be nice to meet someone from GW too :) And good luck with the offers to sell and/or rent.

mtnrdredux, your NJ home is just beautiful and the background music on the virtual tour was an excellent choice. I have read a lot of your posts and know you are now in CT (and are doing amazing things in your new home) where I lived all my life until 16 months ago. I guess everyone can tell I miss CT terribly if I'm still counting it in months, southern PA is just not my idea of an ideal location. However.............. So I hope to remember the name of that furniture store that you recommended to beagles since most of my furniture has been in storage for almost one year and most probably will be there until Sept. and god only knows what it will look like when it comes out.

beagles, lovely home as well. Good luck, have been following your progress as well and look forward to seeing more of your home in the future!